Week 3 of PTS, Frost Warden Perspective.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Changes from Week 1

Before I wanted to jump in and be excited about arctic blast finally being a viable damage skill and the winter's revenge changes, i wanted to test it first before i made my conclusion. here are my results from one of my parses. this post is mostly intended to be feedback for @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler. and other developers.

Build and Parse results:

As this is pts, things are a lot laggier and i missed a lot of sub assault hits due to it taking 1-2 extra seconds than listed to actually come up from the ground.

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Arctic Blast

Tooltip:

Conclusion: Arctic Blast finally feels viable as a damage skill after 5 years of begging.

PvP notes: The stun-on cast is significantly better than having a delayed stun. if this effect proves too strong in the future, a stun on-cast effect should be given to another class skill, however, the current design of arctic blast as a 20 second sticky DoT and a burst heal upon cast is a very serviceable design which should remain.

Winter's Revenge

Tooltip:

Conclusion: The collosal damage loss from this morph feels really bad especially when compared to other similar ground area of effects. while it's understandable that damage loss is necessary, this skill still needs some damage back, or it needs to be able to have some form of secondary effect that contributes to a noticable damage increase as currently, it's effects are very underwhelming compared to other class ground area of effect damage over time skills. having arctic blast be viable is fantastic, however a significant damage over time loss from winter's revenge sours this significantly. Arctic Blast's damage over time isn't overperforming compared to other similar skills so a huge hit to winter's revenge feels unnecessary.

Other things that really need to change before Update 35 launches:

Scorch and it's morphs:

Timers:

The change to it's existing 3 second timer feels awful. a duration increase is a fine concept, however, not at cost of familiarity. it is highly recommended that both skills retain their 3 second intervals between dealing damage and that both morphs have a reason to be used in both pve and pvp as a damage dealer.

Major breach and minor breach are effects that tanks already apply, and thus don't generally have any impact in pve for damage dealers beyond better peneration uptime for the group in aoe.

I feel like a simple mistake that could be made is changing 1 morph to have an additional tick. this will overshadow one that ticks 1 less time in pve encounters. regardless of if the one that ticks less has major and minor breach. the reason why, is that it's generally a damage loss to cast a skill like this, more often. Another important detail is sustain, casting it more means more sustain lost, Deep Fissure is a noticable sustain hemorrhage for magicka builds which leads to subterranean assault outperforming it significantly in pve. in pvp having the ability to strip away the opponents armor and deal more damage per cast due to piercing cold just means that you will never have any reason to pick subterreanean assault in pvp or deep fissure in pve. as it currently exists, there is not really a meaningful choice between morphs. you will always pick subterranean assault in pve and deep fissure in pvp.
This skill is what i would call our anchor skill. it's our most defining gameplay changing skill, and it's the only point of gameplay difference between our class and other classes. it is for this reason that i suggest that in the future, deep fissure or subterranean assault be entirely reworked to be able to provide a different gameplay experience for the warden. skills that i can give reference to that already do this for other classes, are crystal weapon and crystal fragments for sorcerer or solar barrage and dark flare for templar.

Damage Type change:

Another significant change would be a damage type change for deep fissure and scorch at base, with subterranean assault remaining as a poison damage skill, or being changed to bleed. at this point in time, a damage type change to frost would be a significant help for frost dps builds while having no impact on any other build except for ones that specifically run war maiden. as frost damage has more interactions with item sets and passives on our own class than magic damage does, a change like this helps to make the class feel more interconnected as currently the animal companions damage skills do not have any form of connection to our winter's embrace damage skills, a change like this indirectly helps sets like frostbite to become more powerful for frost dps builds that are already noted as being underperforming. now is the time to improve class identity and to make item sets for niche builds outperform general item sets.

TL:DR:
ensure that both Subterranean Assault and deep fissure have a 3 second tick interval as well as a meaningful pick choice for both pve and pvp.
Change the damage type of scorch and deep fissure to frost damage

Advanced Species

The change to this passive should be entirely reverted, or be given changes to ensure that it remains solid in pve situations. a change to penetration only hurts pve damage dealers. a penetration increasing passive could be implemented on icy aura or as a bleed damage related effect on another passive.

Dive

The off balance proc condition for being at a specific range away from a target does not feel good to use in pvp. as targets generally try to gap-close to you and hit you in melee range. this feels incredibly janky to proc, and thus a different more guarenteed option should be considered for the off balance proc condition. this skill is also insanely slow especially in melee range due to it's minimum travel time. perhaps this skill should instantly hit a target when in melee range and be considered as melee damage. only sending a projectile when the target is out of melee range. this would help sigificantly to increase the identity of warden as a class but also to improve the feel of the class in pvp.

Cutting Dive
It was a good idea to change this morph's damage effect away from a stacking bleed based on off-balance. however, adding sustain back upon off-balance, and giving no significant damage related effect means that this morph is outperformed significantly by silver shards. yes it applies hemorrhaging more than it did normally, however this increase is not enough to consider using it over silver shards as wild guardian is already applying a ton of hemorraging anyway. this one should go back to the drawing board.

Elsonso · July 2022

Thanks for posting this. My main is a frost warden and I have been debating whether I want to jump on PTS. Good to see that others are out there doing it, should I decide not to.

SEINTDARKNES · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Changes from Week 1

Before I wanted to jump in and be excited about arctic blast finally being a viable damage skill and the winter's revenge changes, i wanted to test it first before i made my conclusion. here are my results from one of my parses. this post is mostly intended to be feedback for @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler. and other developers.

Build and Parse results:
As this is pts, things are a lot laggier and i missed a lot of sub assault hits due to it taking 1-2 extra seconds than listed to actually come up from the ground.

Arctic Blast

Tooltip:

Conclusion: Arctic Blast finally feels viable as a damage skill after 5 years of begging.

PvP notes: The stun-on cast is significantly better than having a delayed stun. if this effect provides too strong in the future, a stun on-cast effect should be given to another class skill, however, the current design of arctic blast as a 20 second sticky DoT and a burst heal upon cast is a very serviceable design which should remain.
Winter's Revenge
Tooltip:
Conclusion: The collosal damage loss from this morph feels really bad especially when compared to other similar ground area of effects. while it's understandable that damage loss is necessary, this skill still needs some damage back, or it needs to be able to have some form of secondary effect that contributes to a noticable damage increase as currently, it's effects are very underwhelming compared to other class ground area of effect damage over time skills. having arctic blast be viable is fantastic, however a significant damage over time loss from winter's revenge sours this significantly. Arctic Blast's damage over time isn't overperforming compared to other similar skills so a huge hit to winter's revenge feels unnecessary.
Other things that really need to change before Update 35 launches:

Scorch and it's morphs:

Timers:

The change to it's existing 3 second timer feels awful. a duration increase is a fine concept, however, not at cost of familiarity. it is highly recommended that both skills retain their 3 second intervals between dealing damage and that both morphs have a reason to be used in both pve and pvp as a damage dealer.

Major breach and minor breach are effects that tanks already apply, and thus don't generally have any impact in pve for damage dealers beyond better peneration uptime for the group in aoe.

I feel like a simple mistake that could be made is changing 1 morph to have an additional tick. this will overshadow one that ticks 1 less time in pve encounters. regardless of if the one that ticks less has major and minor breach. the reason why, is that it's generally a damage loss to cast a skill like this, more often. Another important detail is sustain, casting it more means more sustain lost, Deep Fissure is a noticable sustain hemorrhage for magicka builds which leads to subterranean assault outperforming it significantly in pve. in pvp having the ability to strip away the opponents armor and deal more damage per cast due to piercing cold just means that you will never have any reason to pick subterreanean assault in pvp or deep fissure in pve. as it currently exists, there is not really a meaningful choice between morphs. you will always pick subterranean assault in pve and deep fissure in pvp.
This skill is what i would call our anchor skill. it's our most defining gameplay changing skill, and it's the only point of gameplay difference between our class and other classes. it is for this reason that i suggest that in the future, deep fissure or subterranean assault be entirely reworked to be able to provide a different gameplay experience for the warden. skills that i can give reference to that already do this for other classes, are crystal weapon and crystal fragments for sorcerer or solar barrage and dark flare for templar.

Damage Type change:

Another significant change would be a damage type change for deep fissure and scorch at base, with subterranean assault remaining as a poison damage skill, or being changed to bleed. at this point in time, a damage type change to frost would be a significant help for frost dps builds while having no impact on any other build except for ones that specifically run war maiden. as frost damage has more interactions with item sets and passives on our own class than magic damage does, a change like this helps to make the class feel more interconnected as currently the animal companions damage skills do not have any form of connection to our winter's embrace damage skills, a change like this indirectly helps sets like frostbite to become more powerful for frost dps builds that are already noted as being underperforming. now is the time to improve class identity and to make item sets for niche builds outperform general item sets.

TL:DR:
ensure that both Subterranean Assault and deep fissure have a 3 second tick interval as well as a meaningful pick choice for both pve and pvp.
Change the damage type of scorch and deep fissure to frost damage
Advanced Species

The change to this passive should be entirely reverted, or be given changes to ensure that it remains solid in pve situations. a change to penetration only hurts pve damage dealers. a penetration increasing passive could be implemented on icy aura or as a bleed damage related effect on another passive.
Dive

The off balance proc condition for being at a specific range away from a target does not feel good to use in pvp. as targets generally try to gap-close to you and hit you in melee range. this feels incredibly janky to proc, and thus a different more guarenteed option should be considered for the off balance proc condition. this skill is also insanely slow especially in melee range due to it's minimum travel time. perhaps this skill should instantly hit a target when in melee range and be considered as melee damage. only sending a projectile when the target is out of melee range. this would help sigificantly to increase the identity of warden as a class but also to improve the feel of the class in pvp.

Cutting Dive
It was a good idea to change this morph's effect away from off-balance. however, adding sustain back upon off-balance, and giving no significant damage related effect means that this morph is outperformed significantly by silver shards. yes it applies hemorrhaging more than it did normally, however this increase is not enough to consider using it over silver shards as wild guardian is already applying a ton of hemorraging anyway. this one should go back to the drawing board.

Also they need to revert the damage nerf to scorch and for everything op say i just agree, they are really good changes to the warden class and his class identity.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Changes from Week 1

Before I wanted to jump in and be excited about arctic blast finally being a viable damage skill and the winter's revenge changes, i wanted to test it first before i made my conclusion. here are my results from one of my parses. this post is mostly intended to be feedback for @ZOS_Gilliam and @ZOS_BrianWheeler. and other developers.

Build and Parse results:
As this is pts, things are a lot laggier and i missed a lot of sub assault hits due to it taking 1-2 extra seconds than listed to actually come up from the ground.

Arctic Blast

Tooltip:

Conclusion: Arctic Blast finally feels viable as a damage skill after 5 years of begging.

PvP notes: The stun-on cast is significantly better than having a delayed stun. if this effect provides too strong in the future, a stun on-cast effect should be given to another class skill, however, the current design of arctic blast as a 20 second sticky DoT and a burst heal upon cast is a very serviceable design which should remain.
Winter's Revenge
Tooltip:
Conclusion: The collosal damage loss from this morph feels really bad especially when compared to other similar ground area of effects. while it's understandable that damage loss is necessary, this skill still needs some damage back, or it needs to be able to have some form of secondary effect that contributes to a noticable damage increase as currently, it's effects are very underwhelming compared to other class ground area of effect damage over time skills. having arctic blast be viable is fantastic, however a significant damage over time loss from winter's revenge sours this significantly. Arctic Blast's damage over time isn't overperforming compared to other similar skills so a huge hit to winter's revenge feels unnecessary.
Other things that really need to change before Update 35 launches:

Scorch and it's morphs:

Timers:

The change to it's existing 3 second timer feels awful. a duration increase is a fine concept, however, not at cost of familiarity. it is highly recommended that both skills retain their 3 second intervals between dealing damage and that both morphs have a reason to be used in both pve and pvp as a damage dealer.

Major breach and minor breach are effects that tanks already apply, and thus don't generally have any impact in pve for damage dealers beyond better peneration uptime for the group in aoe.

I feel like a simple mistake that could be made is changing 1 morph to have an additional tick. this will overshadow one that ticks 1 less time in pve encounters. regardless of if the one that ticks less has major and minor breach. the reason why, is that it's generally a damage loss to cast a skill like this, more often. Another important detail is sustain, casting it more means more sustain lost, Deep Fissure is a noticable sustain hemorrhage for magicka builds which leads to subterranean assault outperforming it significantly in pve. in pvp having the ability to strip away the opponents armor and deal more damage per cast due to piercing cold just means that you will never have any reason to pick subterreanean assault in pvp or deep fissure in pve. as it currently exists, there is not really a meaningful choice between morphs. you will always pick subterranean assault in pve and deep fissure in pvp.
This skill is what i would call our anchor skill. it's our most defining gameplay changing skill, and it's the only point of gameplay difference between our class and other classes. it is for this reason that i suggest that in the future, deep fissure or subterranean assault be entirely reworked to be able to provide a different gameplay experience for the warden. skills that i can give reference to that already do this for other classes, are crystal weapon and crystal fragments for sorcerer or solar barrage and dark flare for templar.

Damage Type change:

Another significant change would be a damage type change for deep fissure and scorch at base, with subterranean assault remaining as a poison damage skill, or being changed to bleed. at this point in time, a damage type change to frost would be a significant help for frost dps builds while having no impact on any other build except for ones that specifically run war maiden. as frost damage has more interactions with item sets and passives on our own class than magic damage does, a change like this helps to make the class feel more interconnected as currently the animal companions damage skills do not have any form of connection to our winter's embrace damage skills, a change like this indirectly helps sets like frostbite to become more powerful for frost dps builds that are already noted as being underperforming. now is the time to improve class identity and to make item sets for niche builds outperform general item sets.

TL:DR:
ensure that both Subterranean Assault and deep fissure have a 3 second tick interval as well as a meaningful pick choice for both pve and pvp.
Change the damage type of scorch and deep fissure to frost damage
Advanced Species

The change to this passive should be entirely reverted, or be given changes to ensure that it remains solid in pve situations. a change to penetration only hurts pve damage dealers. a penetration increasing passive could be implemented on icy aura or as a bleed damage related effect on another passive.
Dive

The off balance proc condition for being at a specific range away from a target does not feel good to use in pvp. as targets generally try to gap-close to you and hit you in melee range. this feels incredibly janky to proc, and thus a different more guarenteed option should be considered for the off balance proc condition. this skill is also insanely slow especially in melee range due to it's minimum travel time. perhaps this skill should instantly hit a target when in melee range and be considered as melee damage. only sending a projectile when the target is out of melee range. this would help sigificantly to increase the identity of warden as a class but also to improve the feel of the class in pvp.

Cutting Dive
It was a good idea to change this morph's effect away from off-balance. however, adding sustain back upon off-balance, and giving no significant damage related effect means that this morph is outperformed significantly by silver shards. yes it applies hemorrhaging more than it did normally, however this increase is not enough to consider using it over silver shards as wild guardian is already applying a ton of hemorraging anyway. this one should go back to the drawing board.

You know there's so much to talk about on every aspect of the Patch Changes, Especially with how important Spammables are with DoT Changes. The Birds are just not there, they just aren't. And I think it comes down to this Idea to make it complicated with Off-Balance, Cutting Dive used to be interesting, you had this Ramping Bleed, you did a ton of damage, they gutted it for sustain? You Serious? Screaming was annoying, and now it's annoying with benefits, getting the 300 wd/sd is nice.

Remove the Off-Balance and

make the Screaming just add 100 wd/sd on hit for 10s stacking 3 times, while this buff is active increase Critical Chance by 10%.

WAIT changed my mind on the Stam stuff. Just give us a melee something.

There I fixed Birds. You're Welcome

Auldwulfe · July 2022

Since my new character concept is a Nord Frost Tank -- some of this does make me a bit happier with the upcoming patch - may have to just stay with that character as the one who will be fun to play ......

Then again, it may shortly be.... Wardens, wardens..... wardens everywhere......

Auldwulfe

Ratzkifal · July 2022

Don't forget to demand your buff to Ysgramor's Birthright. That set was locked at 400spell damage because previously you could get that bonus on your light attacks for weaving. That's gone on PTS, so the set should grant 600 just like Swamp Raider and Warmaiden.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Don't forget to demand your buff to Ysgramor's Birthright. That set was locked at 400spell damage because previously you could get that bonus on your light attacks for weaving. That's gone on PTS, so the set should grant 600 just like Swamp Raider and Warmaiden.

even if it gave 700 weapon/spell damage it'd still underperform compared to frostbite which is saying something. i'm of the opinion that silks, netch and ysgram should offer some sort of bonus to their respective status effect's damage as well. or maybe it should make every type of damage, deal more damage, as the set's respective damage type.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Since my new character concept is a Nord Frost Tank -- some of this does make me a bit happier with the upcoming patch - may have to just stay with that character as the one who will be fun to play ......

Then again, it may shortly be.... Wardens, wardens..... wardens everywhere......

Auldwulfe

as a tank you won't gain much out of using arctic blast anymore, as it's now a dps morph. are you saying that you're excited for the increased heal over time on an ally? i could see that being quite helpful.

Auldwulfe · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Since my new character concept is a Nord Frost Tank -- some of this does make me a bit happier with the upcoming patch - may have to just stay with that character as the one who will be fun to play ......

Then again, it may shortly be.... Wardens, wardens..... wardens everywhere......

Auldwulfe

as a tank you won't gain much out of using arctic blast anymore, as it's now a dps morph. are you saying that you're excited for the increased heal over time on an ally? i could see that being quite helpful.

I don't just tank, I also do overland stuff -- yeah, I don't mow things the way my DPS guys do, but I still finish stuff, and get exp and items, or at least harvest some craft ingredients ..... so I do slot in some things like the Arctic Blast, as needed, during those times ......

Big difference, for me, is fun ... when it becomes and unfun grind, I go looking for another game.
No amount of "we will make you grind until you buy our store items to get around it" has ever worked at keeping me in a game.

Auldwulfe

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Auldwulfe wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Since my new character concept is a Nord Frost Tank -- some of this does make me a bit happier with the upcoming patch - may have to just stay with that character as the one who will be fun to play ......

Then again, it may shortly be.... Wardens, wardens..... wardens everywhere......

Auldwulfe

as a tank you won't gain much out of using arctic blast anymore, as it's now a dps morph. are you saying that you're excited for the increased heal over time on an ally? i could see that being quite helpful.

I don't just tank, I also do overland stuff -- yeah, I don't mow things the way my DPS guys do, but I still finish stuff, and get exp and items, or at least harvest some craft ingredients ..... so I do slot in some things like the Arctic Blast, as needed, during those times ......

Big difference, for me, is fun ... when it becomes and unfun grind, I go looking for another game.
No amount of "we will make you grind until you buy our store items to get around it" has ever worked at keeping me in a game.

Auldwulfe

i see, well it does help you survive as well so there's also that.

LeHarrt91 · July 2022

Great post, thank you for testing the changes on PTS.

I agree that your post, changes to Blast are great and the nerfs to Winters Revenge and Scorch are too much.

In regards to the Advanced Species passive, i to think that pen is not the right stat. Say your in 5 Light Armor with 4 Advanced species skills slotted and the Major and Minor debuffs from Deep Fissure thats close to 18k pen on a single class and while that is great for PvP it seems quite unnecessary. Unsure what to change it too but i dont think pen is the right one.

The animation for Dive and morphs should be updated as well, have it summon from the casters hand and remove the off balance portion of the skills.

MashmalloMan · July 2022

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

In regards to the Advanced Species passive....Unsure what to change it too but i dont think pen is the right one.

I have an outlandish idea, how about 2% damage done?

I know, it's crazy, but I think it would fit right at home with the Warden's kit.

LeHarrt91 · July 2022

MashmalloMan wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

In regards to the Advanced Species passive....Unsure what to change it too but i dont think pen is the right one.

I have an outlandish idea, how about 2% damage done?

I know, it's crazy, but I think it would fit right at home with the Warden's kit.

hahaha yes, reverting it would be fine.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

WAIT changed my mind on the Stam stuff. Just give us a melee something.

There I fixed Birds. You're Welcome

Been begging for a melee spammable for years. A claw/lacerate effect makes so much more sense than chucking birds.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

MashmalloMan wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

In regards to the Advanced Species passive....Unsure what to change it too but i dont think pen is the right one.

I have an outlandish idea, how about 2% damage done?

I know, it's crazy, but I think it would fit right at home with the Warden's kit.

outrageous! that's like a fraction of a percent worse than fighter's guild slotted passive!

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

In regards to the Advanced Species passive....Unsure what to change it too but i dont think pen is the right one.

I have an outlandish idea, how about 2% damage done?

I know, it's crazy, but I think it would fit right at home with the Warden's kit.

outrageous! that's like a fraction of a percent worse than fighter's guild slotted passive!

Well, FG passive is weapon/spell damage, not raw damage scaling. But still, point stands.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

In regards to the Advanced Species passive....Unsure what to change it too but i dont think pen is the right one.

I have an outlandish idea, how about 2% damage done?

I know, it's crazy, but I think it would fit right at home with the Warden's kit.

outrageous! that's like a fraction of a percent worse than fighter's guild slotted passive!

Well, FG passive is weapon/spell damage, not raw damage scaling. But still, point stands.

i know! outrageous!

LeHarrt91 · July 2022

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Faded · July 2022

I can't PTS until the weekend, probably, but I need to find a warden to hit me with that shiny new stun. Nice.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

LeHarrt91 · July 2022

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

I don't really PVP, so I tend to view things solely from a PVE perspective.

MashmalloMan · July 2022

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

I don't think a single competitive pvp warden(inb4 the 1 person says they use it) relies on cliff racer in pvp, so the point is kind of mute until they completely rehaul the projectile and animation time to make them actually usable outside dummy parsing.

Also, it costs mag, it would still mostly be used by mag wardens, thus they're more likely to be using Light Armor and over penetrating. Problem is just shifted.

Damage Done has the same effect with no cap, the only reason I can see them changing it is because they wanted parity between Advanced Species and Frozen Armor in that they now provide the same values on opposite sides of the spectrum.

You know.. balance.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

I don't really PVP, so I tend to view things solely from a PVE perspective.

Even for pvp though. Pen is very easy to access. Sure the bonus damage isn't as good in pvp but damage is damage. It's Wardens #1 damage passive. There's other passives that need reworking that could have Pen slapped on it, like Icy Aura. Everyone universally agrees that Icy Aura is next to useless. So rework that Zos.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

MashmalloMan wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

I don't think a single competitive pvp warden(inb4 the 1 person says they use it) relies on cliff racer in pvp, so the point is kind of mute until they completely rehaul the projectile and animation time to make them actually usable outside dummy parsing.

Also, it costs mag, it would still mostly be used by mag wardens, thus they're more likely to be using Light Armor and over penetrating. Problem is just shifted.

Damage Done has the same effect with no cap, the only reason I can see them changing it is because they wanted parity between Advanced Species and Frozen Armor in that they now provide the same values on opposite sides of the spectrum.

You know.. balance.

that just sounds like OCD

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

I don't really PVP, so I tend to view things solely from a PVE perspective.

Even for pvp though. Pen is very easy to access. Sure the bonus damage isn't as good in pvp but damage is damage. It's Wardens #1 damage passive. There's other passives that need reworking that could have Pen slapped on it, like Icy Aura. Everyone universally agrees that Icy Aura is next to useless. So rework that Zos.

icy aura is literally useless now that falcon's swiftness clears soft cc. it needs to be entirely changed.

LeHarrt91 · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

I don't really PVP, so I tend to view things solely from a PVE perspective.

Even for pvp though. Pen is very easy to access. Sure the bonus damage isn't as good in pvp but damage is damage. It's Wardens #1 damage passive. There's other passives that need reworking that could have Pen slapped on it, like Icy Aura. Everyone universally agrees that Icy Aura is next to useless. So rework that Zos.

icy aura is literally useless now that falcon's swiftness clears soft cc. it needs to be entirely changed.

Yes an update to this passive is needed.

Aldoss · July 2022

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

It's a nerf for PvP too. 1% mitigation is 660 armor. In order to match current advanced species, the new passive would need to give us 1320 per skill.

It's a nerf. I'd rather have that raw damage attached to scorch.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Aldoss wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

What if they swapped the changes to advanced species and Screaming Cliff Racer. So advanced increases weapon and spell damage and SCR increases pen.

Also terrible. Generally speaking, mag builds use light armor, which makes pen a worthless stat.

for pve yes, but would be good for pvp, where you generally dont use 5 light.

It's a nerf for PvP too. 1% mitigation is 660 armor. In order to match current advanced species, the new passive would need to give us 1320 per skill.

It's a nerf. I'd rather have that raw damage attached to scorch.

since they're apparently listening to feedback due to arctic finally becoming a dps skill, maybe they'll listen just this once and revert advanced species as well as revert the timings of shalks to 3 second intervals while making scorch and deep fissure do frost damage instead of magic.

MindOfTheSwarm · July 2022

Winter’s Revenge was the biggest mess up of the entire patch for me. It is CENTRAL to a Frost DD damage output. If no direct buff is coming I don’t know what to suggest for it.
Maybe 100% guaranteed to apply Chill on each tick. That would essentially add an extra 700ish per second on a damage spec.

It really galls me that they “returned it to 10 seconds.” It’s a clear sign of not knowing the class and is downright unprofessional. Maybe it was poor wording in the notes and that could be
more forgivable but I doubt it was that.

10 seconds is fine, in fact I would prefer it go down to 8 seconds but with the same overall damage, allowing for high tick damage. But the whole mistake of its original duration is such a blatant sign of not knowing the class.

That being said Arctic Blast being 20 seconds was a great move. Instant stun is nice too. Not quite a ranged stun, but I’ll take it since AoE stun is nice.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Winter’s Revenge was the biggest mess up of the entire patch for me. It is CENTRAL to a Frost DD damage output. If no direct buff is coming I don’t know what to suggest for it.
Maybe 100% guaranteed to apply Chill on each tick. That would essentially add an extra 700ish per second on a damage spec.

It really galls me that the “returned it to 10 seconds.” It’s a clear sign of not knowing the class and is downright unprofessional. Maybe it was poor wording in the notes and that could be more forgivable but I doubt it was that.

it's 12 seconds on pts which is how it should remain. they must have messed it up when translating it to the patch notes. gina does that sometimes.

also guarenteed chilled isn't really something i think it needs. if they're not going to return some damage to it, it'd be better to keep the current secondary effects as is, or remove chilled and add something pretty big to it.