Fake tanks - Please bring something to the party.

M0ntie

Kallykat wrote: »

How can you tell who is a "fake tank" vs someone who is just inexperienced but trying to learn? When I do dungeons (which is very rarely), I tank, and I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a tank. However, reading boards like this makes me scared to even attempt dungeons because I don't know if I'm doing what others expect of me or if I'm angering everyone.

The difference between a learning tank and a fake is easy to tell. Do you have a taunt? It’s the first skill in the sword and shield skill line. If you’re taunting the boss and the big adds and turning th boss away from the group you’re doing good. As you progress level undaunted and get inner fire the ranged taunt.
Fake tanks make no attempt to do their role so won’t have any taunt and let the boss run all over the place.
Check out the web site for Tank Club for great tank advice.

AgaTheGreat

My biggest dread is to go on a real tank to a random pug normal dungeon as most of the DDs I encounter are rubbish.

Fake tanking is much less of a problem than DDs hitting like wet noodles.

MidniteOwl1913

Eiregirl wrote: »

Kallykat wrote: »

How can you tell who is a "fake tank" vs someone who is just inexperienced but trying to learn? When I do dungeons (which is very rarely), I tank, and I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a tank. However, reading boards like this makes me scared to even attempt dungeons because I don't know if I'm doing what others expect of me or if I'm angering everyone.

If you are tanking when you do dungeons, then i would hope you can tell who the tank is...

Otherwise, if you have mobs and bosses running around attacking everyone at random...then it is likely there is no tank in the group.

Yeah that and they are the first to die when we get to a boss. Or CP 400+ with less than 20k health... Or they run so far ahead of the group that it's like having no tank at all. (And drags the rest of us along with "joining encounter" )

I'm the healer and having the boss chase me around makes it a lot harder for me to keep the party alive.

Kallykat

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I am open to suggestions, but I do not consider myself to be a "Fake Tank"... just an inexperienced one.
Would it not be better to help players learn to tank? I can guarantee that there are ones out there that assume that wearing heavy armor makes them a tank....... I'd suggest taking the time to verify they KNOW the role, at the beginning, as opposed to just getting upset ... it's not like the game has a plethora of instructional modes in it.

Auldwulfe

^ This is really what I was getting at earlier.

I don't play other MMOs, and combat doesn't come naturally to me. Reading about this stuff is exhausting and confusing because there are so many terms I don't understand. I do use a taunt now (Inner Fire, I believe), but the first time I ever queued for a dungeon, I had no idea that was even a mechanic in the game. I figured a tank should just have a lot of health and defense and position oneself in the midst of the fighting. I really had no way to know otherwise without seeking help out of game because the game itself doesn't clarify tank expectations or how to tank well.

Some comments seem to assume that people are "fake tanking" for malicious or selfish reasons. I just think a lot of players are simply doing their best but lack understanding.

JustAGoodPlayer

OsUfi wrote: »

It's been a long time since I ran any dungeons. RNDs in particular, if I get a long dungeon, that uses up all my game time for a night. But right now, I have a new character, a wee one bar StamHealer with whom I'm trying to get all the dungeon quest skill points and raise undaunted. Boy howdy, are there a lot of fake tanks out there at the moment.

Now, I cannot stress this enough, I do not have a problem with fake tanks as long as they bring something to the party. That can be a high DPS to blitz the dungeon, or even a single taunt.

I have a permanent Echoing Vigor up for Powerful Assault and can pretty much spam Enchanted Forest. I have Bogdans for good measure. I have mushrooms if a burst heal is needed, but otherwise, I can heal & damage with vortex, damage and debuff with swarm, and just damage with Endless Hail and a Maelstrom Bow. Basically, I can keep a team alive even in all DLC dungeons I've done so far with no tank.

Yesterday I had a day off and hit 10 dungeons on the trot. 8 out of 10 had a fake tank. Not only did I manage to out-damage each and every one of them, but they all ran around like headless chickens when attacked. Pulling bosses and mobs out of AoEs constantly. Jesus wept, that got old fast.

I went from, fake tanks are fine as long as they do high DPS to fake tanks would be fine if they didn't actively slow the party down.

Guys, come on. If you're gonna fake tank and have even a reasonably competent healer, you should be able to face tank nearly every boss in normal mode dungeons and survive.

I had one guy in two dungeons on the trot. He said "I don't know why you're complaining, I didn't die." Yes, that's because I can spam heals on you to keep you alive. So stand still when you're being attacked and stop dragging bosses out off all the teams AoEs.

As for fake tanks DPS being low, god above, if you're fake tanking with 2k cp, the basic one bar stam healer, with only a few hundred CP should not being out DPS'ing you. I don't even do parses. I only installed the combat plugin yesterday to see my numbers on heals because I didn't know if the build would work. Holy heck, how do some of you even cope with overworld content?

What happened to the fake tanks of old that used to have half the dungeon cleared by the time the other three party members had even loaded in? Or the guys that would rush through the mobs to each boss, starting the encounters, and blitzing through at high speed? Those guys were cool for RNDs. Sigh.

Fake tanks, please, I understand, I really do. And I don't mind! I promise! But please, just bring something to the party and don't slow us down. Thanks.

Normal or vet dunguans ?

Arwin

Since Inner Beast now debuffs the boss to take more damage from you there's very little excuse not to run it if you pretend to be a tank. Personally I always tank normal dungeons (including DLC) with under 20k HP characters and just roll all the heavy attacks. I'd prefer running into someone like me over a dedicated tank that offers utility worth less than the DPS I can bring for normal difficulty duties, if I had to choose.

Furthermore, relying on teammates for anything in a queue environment if you can take care of it yourself is going to reduce your efficiency though, for no good reason with ESO's great amount of agency for any role. Relying on people to match your idea of morality is silly, the pragmatic option is to bring inner beast & echoing vigor for every duty regardless of your role and swap out if redundant, if you so desire.

As for rushing duties, that is a two-edged blade. You can dislike someone who rushes, the person who rushes dislikes you for standing still and admiring the ceiling he's seen a dozen times. If you queue up with other people you may run into a conflict of interest, it's the risk you take and will have to live with regardless of your perspective.

TumlinTheJolly

Most normal dungeons can be soloed. Heck, even a lot of vet dungeons.

As such, the thing that annoys me the most is new / low-CP players queuing as DPS. When I get into a dungeon (in any role) and I see low CP players taking up the DPS slots, I know I'm in for a slower-than-average run. It's not their fault, they're entitled to play however they want, though I'll silently fume!

If you're going to come in and contribute less than the rest of the group, regardless of the reason why, at least queue as tank or healer, as these roles aren't expected to do much much anyway (granted, a 'tank' should at least slot a taunt). If a DPS DOESN'T contribute solid DPS, it's annoying. If a tank or healer DOES contribute solid DPS, it's a welcome bonus.

Vhozek

I only fake tank with my beefy dps and I do bring a taunt. Not all dungeons though. I really don't see why people go out of their way to ruin other people's play time.

OsUfi

To anyone saying they're a bad, inexperienced, or fake tank in this thread. If you have a taunt and don't run around like headless chickens when attacked, you're a tank. Thumbs up to you, keep doing the good work. Keep practicing. You'll get it.

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

It's been a long time since I ran any dungeons. RNDs in particular, if I get a long dungeon, that uses up all my game time for a night. But right now, I have a new character, a wee one bar StamHealer with whom I'm trying to get all the dungeon quest skill points and raise undaunted. Boy howdy, are there a lot of fake tanks out there at the moment.

Now, I cannot stress this enough, I do not have a problem with fake tanks as long as they bring something to the party. That can be a high DPS to blitz the dungeon, or even a single taunt.

I have a permanent Echoing Vigor up for Powerful Assault and can pretty much spam Enchanted Forest. I have Bogdans for good measure. I have mushrooms if a burst heal is needed, but otherwise, I can heal & damage with vortex, damage and debuff with swarm, and just damage with Endless Hail and a Maelstrom Bow. Basically, I can keep a team alive even in all DLC dungeons I've done so far with no tank.

Yesterday I had a day off and hit 10 dungeons on the trot. 8 out of 10 had a fake tank. Not only did I manage to out-damage each and every one of them, but they all ran around like headless chickens when attacked. Pulling bosses and mobs out of AoEs constantly. Jesus wept, that got old fast.

I went from, fake tanks are fine as long as they do high DPS to fake tanks would be fine if they didn't actively slow the party down.

Guys, come on. If you're gonna fake tank and have even a reasonably competent healer, you should be able to face tank nearly every boss in normal mode dungeons and survive.

I had one guy in two dungeons on the trot. He said "I don't know why you're complaining, I didn't die." Yes, that's because I can spam heals on you to keep you alive. So stand still when you're being attacked and stop dragging bosses out off all the teams AoEs.

As for fake tanks DPS being low, god above, if you're fake tanking with 2k cp, the basic one bar stam healer, with only a few hundred CP should not being out DPS'ing you. I don't even do parses. I only installed the combat plugin yesterday to see my numbers on heals because I didn't know if the build would work. Holy heck, how do some of you even cope with overworld content?

What happened to the fake tanks of old that used to have half the dungeon cleared by the time the other three party members had even loaded in? Or the guys that would rush through the mobs to each boss, starting the encounters, and blitzing through at high speed? Those guys were cool for RNDs. Sigh.

Fake tanks, please, I understand, I really do. And I don't mind! I promise! But please, just bring something to the party and don't slow us down. Thanks.

Normal or vet dunguans ?

Both. Honestly, the guy I mentioned was so hopelessly bad he doubled the time every boss took in Darkshade 1 because he ran so far in circles every time he was attacked. When everyone's doing RNDs and they just want to get in and out, it takes a truly awful fake tank to drag out the dungeon completion time.

Ardriel

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Even for "low-level" dungeons fake tanks are a pain. Those low-level dungeons are often where there are low-level players. They need a real tank,

Not sure even with a real tank that it'll help much. Often when I'm in a dungeon with low level players, it seems that these people lack any understanding of the different roles: the dds jump into the trash groups before the tank or attack bosses first, dance around everywhere but in front of the healer. I have even seen dds carry 1-H and shield and also taunt. (Maybe because they think they make it easier for the tank then ) I can only keep pointing out that it would be necessary to introduce an Undaunted tutorial quest where you learn the basics of group play.

As for fake tanking, occasionally I do that too. But I have a taunt, shield and group heal with me. Because most of the time there are also fake healers. I usually do at least 40-50% damage and 60%+ healing while tanking. This works fine in every normal dungeon, basic and dlc.

Jaclynn

As a tank who "feels" like a fake tank sometimes, I'll just say that as mainly a solo player, I sometimes get dragged into dungeons by friends. I always do the new ones as soon as they come out so I don't have to do them again. I have watched many videos on mechanics, and have done most of the dungeons at least on normal. My fingers don't always work, and my memory sucks, so I can never remember the mechanics unless I have done a dungeon several times. (COH...for those damn red balls.) This is how it is for me. I'm not going to "git" any gudder...lol

My point is, just try to be a bit more tolerant. You don't know whether you are playing with a 12 yr old, or an old lady with coordination issues that is just trying to have a bit of fun. We are all learning.

If you want a super-duper dungeon/trial crew, make one.

blackpool9

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Got a fake tank and fake healer yesterday on a random daily. It was Depths of Malatar. They were both DPS, both died, and the party wiped against the first boss. So I waited for them to leave, took out my Ring of the Pale Order, and carried the lower level DPS through the dungeon.

Don't be a fake tank or fake healer. The only reason to do it is to skip the line as a DPS, which only takes 30 seconds to 5 minutes at most now-a-days. Don't make excuses; you wouldn't queue as a tank or a healer if you could instantly get into a random daily as a dps. You're teaching lower level players bad habits, and causing things like yesterday's dungeon I went through to happen all too often.

What server are you running on? Because I queued for nSP2 pledge the other day as DPS and waited 40 minutes for the queue to pop.

AvalonRanger

Super glass canon big damage fake tank for normal gear farming = well come!!
Glass canon fake tank in Vet = Are you sane?
Fragile and low damage fake tank in Vet = Instant kick

AvalonRanger

Kallykat wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I am open to suggestions, but I do not consider myself to be a "Fake Tank"... just an inexperienced one.
Would it not be better to help players learn to tank? I can guarantee that there are ones out there that assume that wearing heavy armor makes them a tank....... I'd suggest taking the time to verify they KNOW the role, at the beginning, as opposed to just getting upset ... it's not like the game has a plethora of instructional modes in it.

Auldwulfe

^ This is really what I was getting at earlier.

I don't play other MMOs, and combat doesn't come naturally to me. Reading about this stuff is exhausting and confusing because there are so many terms I don't understand. I do use a taunt now (Inner Fire, I believe), but the first time I ever queued for a dungeon, I had no idea that was even a mechanic in the game. I figured a tank should just have a lot of health and defense and position oneself in the midst of the fighting. I really had no way to know otherwise without seeking help out of game because the game itself doesn't clarify tank expectations or how to tank well.

Some comments seem to assume that people are "fake tanking" for malicious or selfish reasons. I just think a lot of players are simply doing their best but lack understanding.

>I just think a lot of players are simply doing their best but lack understanding

I think the problem of fake tank means people who are very experienced player do fake roles.

JustAGoodPlayer

If some one say - fake tanks do need to bring some thing in normal dunguans - the reasonable answer is - what do such players bring - if nDunguan can be soloed by the most of players ?

mochizx

fake tank urself? high dps=no tank needed in most normal dungeon right?

Vulkunne

OsUfi wrote: »

It's been a long time since I ran any dungeons. RNDs in particular, if I get a long dungeon, that uses up all my game time for a night. But right now, I have a new character, a wee one bar StamHealer with whom I'm trying to get all the dungeon quest skill points and raise undaunted. Boy howdy, are there a lot of fake tanks out there at the moment.

Now, I cannot stress this enough, I do not have a problem with fake tanks as long as they bring something to the party. That can be a high DPS to blitz the dungeon, or even a single taunt.

I have a permanent Echoing Vigor up for Powerful Assault and can pretty much spam Enchanted Forest. I have Bogdans for good measure. I have mushrooms if a burst heal is needed, but otherwise, I can heal & damage with vortex, damage and debuff with swarm, and just damage with Endless Hail and a Maelstrom Bow. Basically, I can keep a team alive even in all DLC dungeons I've done so far with no tank.

Yesterday I had a day off and hit 10 dungeons on the trot. 8 out of 10 had a fake tank. Not only did I manage to out-damage each and every one of them, but they all ran around like headless chickens when attacked. Pulling bosses and mobs out of AoEs constantly. Jesus wept, that got old fast.

I went from, fake tanks are fine as long as they do high DPS to fake tanks would be fine if they didn't actively slow the party down.

Guys, come on. If you're gonna fake tank and have even a reasonably competent healer, you should be able to face tank nearly every boss in normal mode dungeons and survive.

I had one guy in two dungeons on the trot. He said "I don't know why you're complaining, I didn't die." Yes, that's because I can spam heals on you to keep you alive. So stand still when you're being attacked and stop dragging bosses out off all the teams AoEs.

As for fake tanks DPS being low, god above, if you're fake tanking with 2k cp, the basic one bar stam healer, with only a few hundred CP should not being out DPS'ing you. I don't even do parses. I only installed the combat plugin yesterday to see my numbers on heals because I didn't know if the build would work. Holy heck, how do some of you even cope with overworld content?

What happened to the fake tanks of old that used to have half the dungeon cleared by the time the other three party members had even loaded in? Or the guys that would rush through the mobs to each boss, starting the encounters, and blitzing through at high speed? Those guys were cool for RNDs. Sigh.

Fake tanks, please, I understand, I really do. And I don't mind! I promise! But please, just bring something to the party and don't slow us down. Thanks.

Well first of all, let's take a step back and think about this for a sec.

Just because a Tank contributes to the dmg, does not make them a 'fake tank'. Back in the day, I had several good methods for adding considerable dmg and still being able to completely fulfill my Tank Role. So just because a Tank deals dmg does not mean they're fake.

No instead many people expect a 'Traditional Tank'. What is the difference? A Traditional Tank is someone who holds aggro and blocks forever. However. This type of Tank -always- requires a dedicated healer, meaning whoever has the healer role is expected to keep them juiced up. Thus, a Traditional Tank requires a more structured, better organized group with well defined roles and expectations.

For my part, I was what my guild referred to as a 'Red Tank', which is a concept loosely borrowed from the 'Red Mage' in Final Fantasy. A Red Tank is think of it like Tank+. Which is what you want, this is your expectation.

Unfortunately, the problem you're going to have is too many unsavory folks came on the forums and actually complained about us 'hero tanks' for doing the very thing that you are asking for here. In other words, parts of the community were envious of our knowledge & abilities, not to mention kindness in carrying folks, and they complained about, they denounced us publicly and (in some meaningful way) ZOS nerfed our builds which contributed considiberly to DPS.

Which btw, the point was not to out shine anyone, its just that most groups did not have the DPS (from the players who chose DPS role) to negotiate the content (either all or in part) and thus we improvised, if for nothing else to just get thru the run so everyone's time wasn't wasted.

And like the Knight's Templar, we were shamed and blame and shucked in the dumpster. So no, your request is denied by some of your fellow gamers, the same ones complaining and even though I know you probably had nothing to do with it, of the other Red Tanks that I know of, everyone of them except me has left the game, including my former guild and so now no one can help you. Its funny how when some people come on here to get at others or to get something they have a personal issue with nerfed, how often it comes back to hurt everyone eventually.

Kallykat

AvalonRanger wrote: »

>I just think a lot of players are simply doing their best but lack understanding

I think the problem of fake tank means people who are very experienced player do fake roles.

How do you know they are experienced? I have several characters with high CP, but it was from solo content. It doesn't mean I am experienced with group mechanics.

Also, I have seen a couple people mention that they "fake tank," but then they say they taunt and shield, etc. How are they still considered "fake" as a tank? It sounds like they are really tanking. (This isn't a sarcastic question; I'm sincerely trying to understand this stuff.)

Agenericname

Kallykat wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I am open to suggestions, but I do not consider myself to be a "Fake Tank"... just an inexperienced one.
Would it not be better to help players learn to tank? I can guarantee that there are ones out there that assume that wearing heavy armor makes them a tank....... I'd suggest taking the time to verify they KNOW the role, at the beginning, as opposed to just getting upset ... it's not like the game has a plethora of instructional modes in it.

Auldwulfe

^ This is really what I was getting at earlier.

I don't play other MMOs, and combat doesn't come naturally to me. Reading about this stuff is exhausting and confusing because there are so many terms I don't understand. I do use a taunt now (Inner Fire, I believe), but the first time I ever queued for a dungeon, I had no idea that was even a mechanic in the game. I figured a tank should just have a lot of health and defense and position oneself in the midst of the fighting. I really had no way to know otherwise without seeking help out of game because the game itself doesn't clarify tank expectations or how to tank well.

Some comments seem to assume that people are "fake tanking" for malicious or selfish reasons. I just think a lot of players are simply doing their best but lack understanding.

Most people do make the distinction between an obvious fake tank and a new tank. In the case of the quote in your post, I feel like based off of what I read, that the person who left was hasty. If the tank had a taunt, and according to them they did, pierce armor, they were able to hold the boss/mobs relatively still, and able to not die, then they're a tank.

Thats tanking at a basic level. Taunt, hold stuff still, dont die.

Its pretty common for players that are primarily a DPS to queue as a tank to bypass the queue. The ones that perform those 3 things, regardless of their health pool or tools they use to get that done, I would still consider an actual tank. Most people, I'd guess the majority, are complaining about DPS that queue as a tank and dont do any of that.

The quote in your post, while unfortunate, is somewhat rare in my experience. If you, or anyone else, finds themselves in a similar situation, my suggestion is simply ignore them. They werent bringing anything constructive to the conversation anyway and youre better off not putting too much energy into it.

MidniteOwl1913

Kallykat wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

>I just think a lot of players are simply doing their best but lack understanding

I think the problem of fake tank means people who are very experienced player do fake roles.

How do you know they are experienced? I have several characters with high CP, but it was from solo content. It doesn't mean I am experienced with group mechanics.

Also, I have seen a couple people mention that they "fake tank," but then they say they taunt and shield, etc. How are they still considered "fake" as a tank? It sounds like they are really tanking. (This isn't a sarcastic question; I'm sincerely trying to understand this stuff.)

If you come prepared to do the job, have taunt/buff/shield then even if you are not very good at it you are not a fake. The classic fake is some high CP player wanting to skip the queue and get the rewards for a run without providing the support they signed up for. There are variations on this theme, sometimes it's even a lower-level player skipping the queue (and dying over and over), but that's pretty rare.

Once I was in a DLC dungeon and the tank had a restoration staff. I thought they were the healer till my daughter pointed out that no, that was supposed to be the tank...

baltic1284

If you do not want fake tanks in the game in anyway then stop being a fake healer or fake rogue or fake anything. That simple you want me to join your group then support me 90 percent the issue with fake tanks as you call theme is you purely not supporting theme in any way. It isn't a tanks fault that Zenimax nerfed theme so bad that they are in the state they are cause a community screamed they were too strong.
Want good tanks tell Zenimaz to unnerf the tank they nerfed to this state, you only have yourself player wise and community wise for the state tanks are in. No, I'm not trying to blame any one person but the Community as a whole and in general you openly have yourself to blame if you call a person a fake tank when they were the hardest hit nerf wise, you don't heal theme when they need it, i have seen way more people run away from a fight and expect the tank to do everything with absolutely no support at all.

El_Borracho

Androrix wrote: »

Ummm...how about just don't fake tank at all? The truth is if someone is willing to fake tank in the first place they don't care what you want them to bring to the table. If they did, they wouldn't be someone who fake tanks.

Yep. Or, if the fake tank is going to bring something to the party, perhaps a real tank?

Troodon80

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Once I was in a DLC dungeon and the tank had a restoration staff. I thought they were the healer till my daughter pointed out that no, that was supposed to be the tank...

To be perfectly honest, I don't see using a restoration staff as being an issue. Some people doing Swashbuckler Supreme (currently the hardest achievement in the game) use restoration staff on the off-tank on some bosses. People who used to do veteran Kyne's Aegis would put a restoration staff on their off-tank (I don't know if that's still something groups do or not). If it was a random player in a random dungeon, it could be nice since you don't necessarily know if you'll even have a healer.

sPark101

OsUfi wrote: »

It's been a long time since I ran any dungeons. RNDs in particular, if I get a long dungeon, that uses up all my game time for a night. But right now, I have a new character, a wee one bar StamHealer with whom I'm trying to get all the dungeon quest skill points and raise undaunted. Boy howdy, are there a lot of fake tanks out there at the moment.

Now, I cannot stress this enough, I do not have a problem with fake tanks as long as they bring something to the party. That can be a high DPS to blitz the dungeon, or even a single taunt.

I have a permanent Echoing Vigor up for Powerful Assault and can pretty much spam Enchanted Forest. I have Bogdans for good measure. I have mushrooms if a burst heal is needed, but otherwise, I can heal & damage with vortex, damage and debuff with swarm, and just damage with Endless Hail and a Maelstrom Bow. Basically, I can keep a team alive even in all DLC dungeons I've done so far with no tank.

Yesterday I had a day off and hit 10 dungeons on the trot. 8 out of 10 had a fake tank. Not only did I manage to out-damage each and every one of them, but they all ran around like headless chickens when attacked. Pulling bosses and mobs out of AoEs constantly. Jesus wept, that got old fast.

I went from, fake tanks are fine as long as they do high DPS to fake tanks would be fine if they didn't actively slow the party down.

Guys, come on. If you're gonna fake tank and have even a reasonably competent healer, you should be able to face tank nearly every boss in normal mode dungeons and survive.

I had one guy in two dungeons on the trot. He said "I don't know why you're complaining, I didn't die." Yes, that's because I can spam heals on you to keep you alive. So stand still when you're being attacked and stop dragging bosses out off all the teams AoEs.

As for fake tanks DPS being low, god above, if you're fake tanking with 2k cp, the basic one bar stam healer, with only a few hundred CP should not being out DPS'ing you. I don't even do parses. I only installed the combat plugin yesterday to see my numbers on heals because I didn't know if the build would work. Holy heck, how do some of you even cope with overworld content?

What happened to the fake tanks of old that used to have half the dungeon cleared by the time the other three party members had even loaded in? Or the guys that would rush through the mobs to each boss, starting the encounters, and blitzing through at high speed? Those guys were cool for RNDs. Sigh.

Fake tanks, please, I understand, I really do. And I don't mind! I promise! But please, just bring something to the party and don't slow us down. Thanks.

Seriously, go play another game.

baltic1284

sPark101 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

It's been a long time since I ran any dungeons. RNDs in particular, if I get a long dungeon, that uses up all my game time for a night. But right now, I have a new character, a wee one bar StamHealer with whom I'm trying to get all the dungeon quest skill points and raise undaunted. Boy howdy, are there a lot of fake tanks out there at the moment.

Now, I cannot stress this enough, I do not have a problem with fake tanks as long as they bring something to the party. That can be a high DPS to blitz the dungeon, or even a single taunt.

I have a permanent Echoing Vigor up for Powerful Assault and can pretty much spam Enchanted Forest. I have Bogdans for good measure. I have mushrooms if a burst heal is needed, but otherwise, I can heal & damage with vortex, damage and debuff with swarm, and just damage with Endless Hail and a Maelstrom Bow. Basically, I can keep a team alive even in all DLC dungeons I've done so far with no tank.

Yesterday I had a day off and hit 10 dungeons on the trot. 8 out of 10 had a fake tank. Not only did I manage to out-damage each and every one of them, but they all ran around like headless chickens when attacked. Pulling bosses and mobs out of AoEs constantly. Jesus wept, that got old fast.

I went from, fake tanks are fine as long as they do high DPS to fake tanks would be fine if they didn't actively slow the party down.

Guys, come on. If you're gonna fake tank and have even a reasonably competent healer, you should be able to face tank nearly every boss in normal mode dungeons and survive.

I had one guy in two dungeons on the trot. He said "I don't know why you're complaining, I didn't die." Yes, that's because I can spam heals on you to keep you alive. So stand still when you're being attacked and stop dragging bosses out off all the teams AoEs.

As for fake tanks DPS being low, god above, if you're fake tanking with 2k cp, the basic one bar stam healer, with only a few hundred CP should not being out DPS'ing you. I don't even do parses. I only installed the combat plugin yesterday to see my numbers on heals because I didn't know if the build would work. Holy heck, how do some of you even cope with overworld content?

What happened to the fake tanks of old that used to have half the dungeon cleared by the time the other three party members had even loaded in? Or the guys that would rush through the mobs to each boss, starting the encounters, and blitzing through at high speed? Those guys were cool for RNDs. Sigh.

Fake tanks, please, I understand, I really do. And I don't mind! I promise! But please, just bring something to the party and don't slow us down. Thanks.

Seriously, go play another game.

I agree if you dont like how things are move along but i cant stand blaming tanks for failed stuff.

AvalonRanger

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Kallykat wrote: »

How can you tell who is a "fake tank" vs someone who is just inexperienced but trying to learn? When I do dungeons (which is very rarely), I tank, and I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a tank. However, reading boards like this makes me scared to even attempt dungeons because I don't know if I'm doing what others expect of me or if I'm angering everyone.

Here's an example of a Fake Tank from one of my runs.



As you can see they had 16k hp.

They generally have lower hp/mitigation than tanks and they tend to lack a taunt. They also generally will do more damage.

"Hey, I can do damage burst 100K! Watch me !!"

Then keep attacking the target dummy over and over...

Well... can't believe some people still doing those stupid test at the youtube.
Maybe they want to do "boast" against viewers. But it's so hilariously nonsense idea.
Because, target dummy is not real combat. If you're killed by just AoE by dangerous boss,
then you're "zero" damage dealer.

Glass canon will work for ESO PVP or normal dungeon farming.
Or, It's kind of a suicide bomber to earn killing count in PVP. But, no thanks for group mission,
especially in Vet. As a tank main, I don't like those type of building. It's so annoy me.
I don't want to revive those type of player in hard situation.

seldomseenkd

If y'all keep carrying these players then they're just gonna keep doing it.

Kahnak

sPark101 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

It's been a long time since I ran any dungeons. RNDs in particular, if I get a long dungeon, that uses up all my game time for a night. But right now, I have a new character, a wee one bar StamHealer with whom I'm trying to get all the dungeon quest skill points and raise undaunted. Boy howdy, are there a lot of fake tanks out there at the moment.

Now, I cannot stress this enough, I do not have a problem with fake tanks as long as they bring something to the party. That can be a high DPS to blitz the dungeon, or even a single taunt.

I have a permanent Echoing Vigor up for Powerful Assault and can pretty much spam Enchanted Forest. I have Bogdans for good measure. I have mushrooms if a burst heal is needed, but otherwise, I can heal & damage with vortex, damage and debuff with swarm, and just damage with Endless Hail and a Maelstrom Bow. Basically, I can keep a team alive even in all DLC dungeons I've done so far with no tank.

Yesterday I had a day off and hit 10 dungeons on the trot. 8 out of 10 had a fake tank. Not only did I manage to out-damage each and every one of them, but they all ran around like headless chickens when attacked. Pulling bosses and mobs out of AoEs constantly. Jesus wept, that got old fast.

I went from, fake tanks are fine as long as they do high DPS to fake tanks would be fine if they didn't actively slow the party down.

Guys, come on. If you're gonna fake tank and have even a reasonably competent healer, you should be able to face tank nearly every boss in normal mode dungeons and survive.

I had one guy in two dungeons on the trot. He said "I don't know why you're complaining, I didn't die." Yes, that's because I can spam heals on you to keep you alive. So stand still when you're being attacked and stop dragging bosses out off all the teams AoEs.

As for fake tanks DPS being low, god above, if you're fake tanking with 2k cp, the basic one bar stam healer, with only a few hundred CP should not being out DPS'ing you. I don't even do parses. I only installed the combat plugin yesterday to see my numbers on heals because I didn't know if the build would work. Holy heck, how do some of you even cope with overworld content?

What happened to the fake tanks of old that used to have half the dungeon cleared by the time the other three party members had even loaded in? Or the guys that would rush through the mobs to each boss, starting the encounters, and blitzing through at high speed? Those guys were cool for RNDs. Sigh.

Fake tanks, please, I understand, I really do. And I don't mind! I promise! But please, just bring something to the party and don't slow us down. Thanks.

Seriously, go play another game.

Found the fake tank.

Arunei

alcoraptor wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Also, other players expect something from another role.

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: I do not think fake DPS exists, only bad ones.

To me, these two statements are not compatible. As a tank, I expect the DDs to have high enough DPS in order to clear the content they've queued for. If they do not, they are not performing their role, wasting my time and disrespecting the rest of the group.

I also strongly disagree with any kind of enforcement from ZOS about the issue, particularly account bans - that just seems ridiculous and draconian.
Am I seriously expected to risk an account ban because someone claims that I am not performing my role?

Except there aren't any fake DDs because even if they're bad at it, unless they literally aren't attacking at all, they're still doing the role they signed up for. They are still literally damage dealers.

For tanks and healers though it's another matter entirely. There is a difference between being bad/new at either of those roles and then being a fake. A bad or learning tank might not keep their taunts up or might taunt the wrong mobs, they may not keep the boss facing away from the group. A bad or learning healer might use weak skills or only spam one specific skill, they might not keep an eye on the group's health and be really sporadic with their buffs. But in those cases at least they're trying, they're still attempting the role they signed up for.

But when the tank has no taunts and runs around like a manic, and when the healer doesn't have any heals...well that's when you have someone faking. And I don't think I've ever heard of a DD without any damaging skills.

Carcamongus

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I am going to point out some other sides of this, though.

I have a Templar, champion 700+ -- why? Because my DPS Sorc got to 700+ before I made the Templar ...
And, As I had to level him up to 50, I sort of played him as a hybrid tank/dps/healer -- as I ran with random groups, etc to build him up.

He sort of ended up as a Paladin, but now, I want to get into more tanking with him, as he is at a level to be useful
So I am working on transitioning him over,
I'm also in my mid 50's and not as fast as I used to be so
Front bar - Binding Javelin, Dark Flare, Shielded Assault, Pierce Armor, and Hasty Prayer
Back bar - Binding Javelin, Dark Flare, Stampede, Brawler, and Hasty Prayer, and right now, my ultimate is Crescent Seep on both. I am still learning how the skills work, as getting to 50 was easy..... and yeah, you have the champion points, but they don't show until you hit 50, and if that is a high number, everyone expects you to be an "expert"

So, at this point, I am learning - I use skills that I am comfortable with, and am working on getting used to swapping bars more often.

I used crafted armor, and have a set that gives me breach on a crit -- it isn't the best for a tank, but it is working with the rest, right now, and allows me to cover a debuff

But, the other day, I queued up as tank, as I have a taunt, on my front bar, and I am doing my best to learn -- I aggroed the bosses and did my best to keep them in the party's AOE's --- mostly by spamming my taunt and circling the AOE.

However, one guy got upset with me using the shield rush to get to bosses so that I could get the taunt in as fast as I could.... especially as I also used my stampede a couple of times with groups of small stuff between bosses .....
He tried to claim I was a "fake tank" but as one of the other players put it, I was taunting and holding bosses in AOE, I wasn't running all over the place, and I was using a taunt to hold the attention --- so the player accusing me of being a "Fake Tank" quit the group.

He, also, kept saying that anyone using a skill to enhance weapon damage (my Dark Flare) is a fake tank .... despite the fact that I use it to both enhance my ability to hold, and it gives Major Defile to target along with enemies within 8 meters.
I use the Javelin to pull things, and also to apply damage to something if I cannot get there ---
And finally, I carry a heal, because I have been in situations where my ability to drop a quick heal has saved everyone.

Now, I am working on building up, and learning the other skills - and once I unlock the rest of the fighter's guild, I may swap to Meridia's Blade ... but for now, I KNOW these skills, and am comfortable with them. I also plan on adding Inner Fire, just as soon as I get the next level on that Templar

I am open to suggestions, but I do not consider myself to be a "Fake Tank"... just an inexperienced one.
Would it not be better to help players learn to tank? I can guarantee that there are ones out there that assume that wearing heavy armor makes them a tank....... I'd suggest taking the time to verify they KNOW the role, at the beginning, as opposed to just getting upset ... it's not like the game has a plethora of instructional modes in it.

Auldwulfe

I'm a tank and I like to joke tanks get blamed for anything that goes wrong, even outside the game. Do keep in mind, though, that you don't need to put up with that sort of behavior. You have a tank build and you perform tank tasks, I don't see how you could possibly be a fake. Besides, I don't think fake tanks usually practice tanking. I learned a lot from other players, so it's definitely better to help than to bash. Alas, adventuring with strangers always brings the risk of contact with idiots.

Kudos for taking the time to learn the trade (which entails being hit in the head by big baddies so much you end up forgetting your own name, but let's not discourage aspiring tanks, yes?).