Shaming Console Users Should Be Stopped.

EdmondDontes

jaws343 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Consoles and the people who buy them are holding gaming back as a medium. We cannot, collectively, have nice things because of your purchasing habits.

You really think gaming would be as diverse, lucrative & fun if it was still on PCs only??

🤣🤣

Gaming was invented on PC and has always been better on PC. Yes, gaming would be more diverse and fun if it was more PC focused and less first person shooter gamebox focused.

The first, non lab, video games were Arcade games, and then consoles for home use. The first games invented on computer were done in labs as experiments more than commercial distribution like a modern video game. Definitely not PCs.

Nope. Even Pong was invented on PC then put into a "gamebox" for home users. I guess you could argue pinball was around first, and there were pinball arcades.

I mean, that literally proves my point. It was only available to actual users via a console like device. PCs did not exist in a commercially available way before console and console type devices were already delivering video games to end users.

Also, being invented on PC doesn't mean made for PC. Like, no one is taking an XBOX and building a game on it. Even games built specifically for XBOX are built using computers. Because, that is how things works.

Yep, all games are created on PC first. The best, most complex games remain on PC because a PC can handle whatever graphics and processing any game needs. Whereas a console will always be limited by it's hardware restrictions and inability to upgrade in essentially any way. Consoles are disposable. PC's can be modified and upgraded.

Arunei

Geldauran wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

They just didnt want the hassle to move it to next gen and decided to outright cancel the console version. Not the best move. Eso does have a better alternative, its the ps5 and xsx version that are already avaiable. They need to do what both ff14 and dcuniverse online(the only mmos on the ps3 as far as i know) did with their ps3 support. 3 year after the ps4 launch, access to the ps3 version was discontinued while not causing any problem to the ps4 playerbase. The only thing missing for eso to do that is actual ps5 and xsx for the player
It also has the benefit to be easier for zos and the player base, since both gen share the server of their respective platform, its only a matter of turning a version of the game off for zos and for the playerbase its like login in on a different pc

Locking out last gen now would cause more arm than good. Some dev once said that the playerbase are spread about equally between platform.
so eso would lost about 66% of its playerbase and the sale that goes with them. Pretty bad move to make if you ask me

There's more to it than just moving to next gen consoles when it comes to MMORPGs like ESO, like UI. This game's UI is also limited by consoles. It's why we have two bars of 5 skills + 1 ultimate, where other PC MMORPGs have nearly unlimited skill slots. Imagine actually being able to slot and use every skill or nearly every skill you've unlocked? Granted the game would have been balanced quite differently but it would have been great.

Luckily for a game like ESO the previous gen consoles aren't a major limiter. E:D introduced an entirely new way of playing the game that proved impossible to develop properly for the older gen consoles. I highly doubt ESO will ever try to do something like that. It doesn't need it.

You do realize this game came out on PC first, right? The limited skillbar spaces have absolutely nothing to do with console UI limitations and I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the UI was made for platforms that weren't added until like a year after launch. The limited space on our bars was intended to be a design option from the beginning, not because of UI limitations but because of gameplay.

I also don't buy that excuse. If FF14 could allow for multiple buttons, individual UI scaling and positioning, a typical mmo equipment viewer all on a PS3 then why can't ESO? Either the devs are just not that good at coding or this design was the intent maybe due to Skyrims popularity.

Last I heard FF14 plans on updating their graphics for next expansion but no word about ESO doing that any time soon. It's nice that they're doing something about their servers supposedly, but I think its a bit too late given how they've been treating players for years.

You can not buy it all you want, it does nothing to change the fact that the game was designed from the beginning to have a limited skill bar, and that it had nothing to do with console UI. Why exactly do you think every MMO has to have unlimited skill bar space? Just because other games do? It literally has nothing to do with not being good at coding or anything and that just being how they wanted combat to be.

spartaxoxo

EdmondDontes wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Consoles and the people who buy them are holding gaming back as a medium. We cannot, collectively, have nice things because of your purchasing habits.

You really think gaming would be as diverse, lucrative & fun if it was still on PCs only??

🤣🤣

Gaming was invented on PC and has always been better on PC. Yes, gaming would be more diverse and fun if it was more PC focused and less first person shooter gamebox focused.

The first, non lab, video games were Arcade games, and then consoles for home use. The first games invented on computer were done in labs as experiments more than commercial distribution like a modern video game. Definitely not PCs.

Nope. Even Pong was invented on PC then put into a "gamebox" for home users. I guess you could argue pinball was around first, and there were pinball arcades.

I mean, that literally proves my point. It was only available to actual users via a console like device. PCs did not exist in a commercially available way before console and console type devices were already delivering video games to end users.

Also, being invented on PC doesn't mean made for PC. Like, no one is taking an XBOX and building a game on it. Even games built specifically for XBOX are built using computers. Because, that is how things works.

Yep, all games are created on PC first.

This is kinda disingenuous NGL. This implies they are created for PC, using the kinds of computers anyone might use at their house. When in actuality, it's done on very high end equipment. And some are never meant to be used on people's PCs.

WiseSky

I love playing with a controller
I love having the ability's to Type
Would love to have the ability's to have Voice Chat on PC
Would love to have Addons on Console
HDR on console and not on PC
New servers for PC/Na but not others...
Ability to see who has all the trophies and such would be cool on PC

Both sides have their positives, as long one finds what they enjoy, no shaming as a general rule if someone likes something goes a long way I think.

I wonder is Steam Deck Pc or Console?

Sevalaricgirl

The crappy engine is holding ZOS development back. Even an ex-developer said "A former Bethesda Game Studios developer actually says the "engine is a piece of crap,"" So, there you have it. Sure, there might be a memory issue but No Man's Sky is going on the Nintendo Switch. ZOS could do more skill trees if they wanted to.

starkerealm

@Sevalaricgirl, that was in regard to the Creation Engine, which is a Gamebyro fork, and what BGS uses. So, that's Fallout 4, Fallout 76, and Skyrim. While Matt and Rich are BGS vets, ZOS is a distinct development team, with their own tools.

IIRC, ESO is running on a proprietary fork of the Hero engine.

Also, yeah, that dev is correct about Creation, it's a kludgy mess held together with baling wire and spit, and really needs to be hauled out back of the woodshed and put out of all of our collective miseries. Not sure how it handles Starfield, but with 11 years of experience modding it under my belt... can confirm, it's a mess. (Almost 20 years, if we count the pre-Skyrim itterations, which, yeah, it's still the same engine. I'm getting off topic, but I really do wonder what they had to jerry rig to get it to handle starships, because that has always been jank as hell.)

Also, not that it matters, that dev was breaching NDA, pretty severely, and while their opinion on Creation is probably safe, you may want to be careful about citing their comments, as it is technically against forum rules to post breached NDA info.

DeltaForce64x

Take it from me: born and raised as a computer guy from early 2000s,

I do love ps4 and xbox one hardware. They look so good and retro vibe is awesome, they arent even that old.

There is many strictly limits on ps5 console and no one talk about them, but EVERYONE ON GALAXY talks about how low level ps4 is.

AND ps5 already got hacked by the way, look up on YouTube.

Faster advancing tech isnt your friend, huge tech firms isnt your friend. Be careful what you lot wish for,

I do love sexy ps4 and xbox 360. And honestly couldnt care less if they "holding back" anything.

We came to this point from dial up modems and people already wanting super duper tech without knowing anything about them.

Naftal

Would be good if they seperated the PC and console versions. That way they can upgrade PC version without having consoles limiting what they can do.

WinterHeart626

Naftal wrote: »

Would be good if they seperated the PC and console versions. That way they can upgrade PC version without having consoles limiting what they can do.

Console and PC run on different servers, I said it farther back in the thread, there’s no reason they can’t update PC ahead of consoles except sales. They don’t want reviews from PC ruining their sales on console, hence simultaneous release of modules. If PC was ahead of console by 1-2 modules, then I would certainly have skipped purchasing high isle, as the nerf to oakensoul would have already happened.

To say “it’s all consoles fault” is to hide your head under a rock. I’ve got an Xbox series X, should I start saying PCs running lesser hardware, which is capable of running ESO at a decent frame rate and handle the loads is holding my console back? I don’t, because it’s foolish to assume something because X says it’s Ys fault.
There’s a PC rig in my living room that’s running gear 7 years old and able to run eso. Clearly that MUST be holding things back a fair bit 🙄

xDeusEJRx

The "pc is held back by console" argument is immediately debunked by the fact that ZOS devs still aren't doing any major developments even after upgrading the games performance on PC client

Console or not, completely reworking game's base mechanics is no fault of console. They could be pushing out content but instead they're putting content on the back board to completely rework base game mechanics like light attack and heavy attacks and almost every class skill line.

None of which is the fault of console platform existing, more so the game devs having no idea what they even want to do with this game anymore. Even if they did erase console version you'd probably still be in this perpetual loop of the game devs not doing anything because they're busy "balancing" the game to fit their "vision"

spartaxoxo

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

The "pc is held back by console" argument is immediately debunked by the fact that ZOS devs still aren't doing any major developments even after upgrading the games performance on PC client

Yup. They actually still haven't replaced all of the failing hardware on their servers or finished the game's foundational code to remove years old issue, which they compared to having to remove the bottom of an already built house of cards in a stream. They flat out said nothing new that would affect PVP would come out until that time. That means no new PvP game modes, but we can also infer that also means no new classes or combat skill lines. So, even if they had pulled console support last year, you'd still just have a card game rn.

They have to fix the game to keep it performant, and in the meantime, they are also changing balance to some nebulous vision they want moving forward. That's their focus right now.

Galarthor

I agree, consoles and PC development and performance should be separated.

ESO is a game designed to constantly evolve - this has been clear from the very start. As such the minimum requirements of the game increase over time and is fine - even good. Citing some 8 year old system requirements as a reason why you should not have to upgrade your hardware b/c back when you bought the game it was sufficient is just unworldly if not ridiculous.

Given how console hardware is not constantly upgraded unlike PC hardware, I think it is best to separate the technological leaps forward of the game for these two domains. PCs get new system requirements every few years, Consoles whenever a new console has been released for long enough.

There is really no reason why PC players should be punished for the lack of new consoles or console players for the faster advancement / releases for PCs. PS4 can't handle more than 700 furnishings? Fine. Let them have 700 furnishings. Most PCs can handle 1000 furnishings? Great, give PC 1000 furnishing slots. You got a high-end PC for 5000$ that can handle 20000 furnishings?

AzuraFan

I'm a PC player. I have to update / replace my machine every once in a while to keep up with the newest games that are coming out. I don't expect games released in 2022 to run well on a PC I bought years ago. It's never acceptable to shame console players. But it's also perfectly okay for a game to drop support for older systems. It's probably too early right now given the number of older consoles out there. But at some point, ZOS will have to draw the line.

WinterHeart626

AzuraFan wrote: »

I'm a PC player. I have to update / replace my machine every once in a while to keep up with the newest games that are coming out. I don't expect games released in 2022 to run well on a PC I bought years ago. It's never acceptable to shame console players. But it's also perfectly okay for a game to drop support for older systems. It's probably too early right now given the number of older consoles out there. But at some point, ZOS will have to draw the line.

It’s not a matter of the number of older consoles out there, it’s a matter of the current lack of new consoles, artificially induced by people who use bots to buy up and then scalp those consoles at mark up. Don’t say “well just buy it”, because that a no dice situation. A person is not going to fork out +50-100% of the cost of a console to some muppet who’s using bots to buy up stock (which encourages that behaviour even farther).