Dark Convergence

Durham

This set was not nerfed in the right way. This set is still going to be the go to set in PVP. Every ball group will run it, every small effective group will run it. Its just to good still. On paper it still provides tons of utility. The new 25 sec cool down its sounds pretty bad but its really nothing. This set is part of the current meta, this nerf does nothing to that.

People are going to say its easy to avoid, its crap! Guess what if it is so bad how come every ball group runs it. Every serious 4-8 man runs it. Its a a easy AP curb stomp.

Multiple people in ball groups run this set 25 secs is not enough and not the right way to nerf the set. (Radius change would be best or take away some of the utility of the set) 25 secs will actually hurt the smaller groups not the ball or multi-ball groups.

This set is not competive and it actually hurts the fun in running organized grouping. I so tired of fighting on pulls! If you attack another ball group and lets say both use it who every pulls in a stealth archer with 20k health wins lol.. This is not a good way to win.

Tevalicious

Our group has already stopped using dark con, and likely wont go back to it after the 25s cooldown. It doesn't preform well in GvGs, and there are better sets to use for pulls. Dark con really is not that big of a deal anymore. In GH NA its mainly used by zerg/pug guilds and bombers and it is quite east to counter. The 25s cooldown nerf is a balanced change that keeps it more geared toward solo or small group bombing.

katorga

Tevalicious wrote: »

Our group has already stopped using dark con, and likely wont go back to it after the 25s cooldown. It doesn't preform well in GvGs, and there are better sets to use for pulls. Dark con really is not that big of a deal anymore. In GH NA its mainly used by zerg/pug guilds and bombers and it is quite east to counter. The 25s cooldown nerf is a balanced change that keeps it more geared toward solo or small group bombing.

Block.

25 seconds won't matter if multiple players in a ball group use it.

Cuddlypuff

Rush of agony is already far better and has less counterplay than dark con, it is just gated behind a lot of sticker farming so less people run it. U35 will just be the motivator for people (including myself) to go farm it and replace dark con. In any case, 25 seconds is not a major nerf whatsoever as synergy dumps already have a 20 second cooldown anyway. If you pull without follow up damage (like the majority of bad Cyrodiil players), you are just scattering the enemy at best and giving away free snare immunity at worst.

Faulgor

I'm not sure how to balance this set for PvP, but the nerf to 25 second cooldown really hurts its application for PvE.

It's currently a fantastic support set for my healer in dungeons, but with such a long cooldown, I'll probably get to use it only every third trash fight. As it's already pretty useless for boss fights, that makes it kinda crap.

So I wish they would address its other effects to reign it in, either its snare, stun, or damage.
Cooldown seems pretty irrelevant for PvP anyway, as there's a good chance there's somebody else with the set off cooldown in a massive multiplayer environment. Cooldown is also irrelevant for bombing, where I've seen it used effectively as well.

J18696

Yeah rush of agony is literally better and you don't see it coming no counterplay to a pull you can't see coming

Faulgor

J18696 wrote: »

Yeah rush of agony is literally better and you don't see it coming no counterplay to a pull you can't see coming

Ironically, Rush of Agony doesn't feel that great in PvE because the range is too small for a lot of trash pulls, missing most ranged enemies like archers and mages.
Doesn't make sense that a dungeon set is better in PvP and vice versa.

CameraBeardThePirate

Faulgor wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Yeah rush of agony is literally better and you don't see it coming no counterplay to a pull you can't see coming

Ironically, Rush of Agony doesn't feel that great in PvE because the range is too small for a lot of trash pulls, missing most ranged enemies like archers and mages.
Doesn't make sense that a dungeon set is better in PvP and vice versa.

The range on Rush is the same as DC tho...

Durham

Yes its not as good as this set and that set yet ........

ITS EVERYWHERE IN CYRODIL

Its buggy you avoid it and clearly be out of the pull radius however you find your self pulled into... In lag its a death nail because the reaction time is nothing. Im sorry but this like all other BS proc sets needs to go in PVP.

Tevalicious

I mean sure players will still be using it, but you specifically mentioned ball groups. I am in contact with many of the GH NA ball groups and its probably a 50/50 split of groups that still do and don't use convergence. And groups are still moving away from convergence with each raid.

maxjapank

Faulgor wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Yeah rush of agony is literally better and you don't see it coming no counterplay to a pull you can't see coming

Ironically, Rush of Agony doesn't feel that great in PvE because the range is too small for a lot of trash pulls, missing most ranged enemies like archers and mages.
Doesn't make sense that a dungeon set is better in PvP and vice versa.

I use Rush of Agony on my dps Stamplar in pve all the time. It is great for dungeons. I've had quite a few newer players asking me how I pull everything in, too. It's great.

Twohothardware

It doesn’t need a cooldown nerf, it needs a huge range pull nerf. It’s stupid how far it pulls you even when your smart and avoid it and the lag makes it way worse.

Cuddlypuff

Twohothardware wrote: »

It doesn’t need a cooldown nerf, it needs a huge range pull nerf. It’s stupid how far it pulls you even when your smart and avoid it and the lag makes it way worse.

That is a position desync and it affects far more than just dark con. The key thing people don't realize is that the pull is not what kills them. In the case of a harmony necro, their boneyard synergy hits a 28M diameter whereas dark con is only 20m. You would have died anyway, and in fact the "sweatier" necro builds don't even use any pulls since it would be useless on other good players.

So naturally you might ask "What is the pull for?" Occult range is 4m and VD range is 5m. Dark convergence / Rush of Agony is purely a pug zerg bomber that brings everything together to proc on-death effects.

haelgaan

having used both dark conv and rushing agony for fun PVE dungeon runs, dark conv feels like it has better range and utility in that content. i am bummed that PVP is yet again the reason that ZOS is nerfing something fun in PVE, again... i truly don't understand why ZOS cannot just tweak stats when in BG/Cyro, instead of raining on the parade for everyone else.

Faulgor

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Yeah rush of agony is literally better and you don't see it coming no counterplay to a pull you can't see coming

Ironically, Rush of Agony doesn't feel that great in PvE because the range is too small for a lot of trash pulls, missing most ranged enemies like archers and mages.
Doesn't make sense that a dungeon set is better in PvP and vice versa.

The range on Rush is the same as DC tho...

You're right, it seems I confused it with Void Bash, which is 12m.

I think what makes DC feel like it has better pull utility than Rushing Agony (in PvE) is that you don't have to use it on a target, and can place the effect freely. That way, when 2 enemies are let's say 15 meters apart, you can pull both of them by placing DC between them, whereas using RA on one of them won't pull the other.

Tevalicious

haelgaan wrote: »

having used both dark conv and rushing agony for fun PVE dungeon runs, dark conv feels like it has better range and utility in that content. i am bummed that PVP is yet again the reason that ZOS is nerfing something fun in PVE, again... i truly don't understand why ZOS cannot just tweak stats when in BG/Cyro, instead of raining on the parade for everyone else.

The PvE aspect is a byproduct of the set being brought in to address stacking in PvP. In other words the set was made specifically for PvP and it makes sense that it will be tuned in regards to PvP.

Twohothardware

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

It doesn’t need a cooldown nerf, it needs a huge range pull nerf. It’s stupid how far it pulls you even when your smart and avoid it and the lag makes it way worse.

That is a position desync and it affects far more than just dark con. The key thing people don't realize is that the pull is not what kills them. In the case of a harmony necro, their boneyard synergy hits a 28M diameter whereas dark con is only 20m. You would have died anyway, and in fact the "sweatier" necro builds don't even use any pulls since it would be useless on other good players.

So naturally you might ask "What is the pull for?" Occult range is 4m and VD range is 5m. Dark convergence / Rush of Agony is purely a pug zerg bomber that brings everything together to proc on-death effects.

I’ve not died a single time to just boneyard. It is always getting pulled into the middle of a pestilence colossus and bone yard combo that instantly one shots. You can’t react to it when there is lag because the pull desyncs you. And I have over 30k health with high resistances.

Some part of that *** needs to be nerfed.

Cuddlypuff

Twohothardware wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

It doesn’t need a cooldown nerf, it needs a huge range pull nerf. It’s stupid how far it pulls you even when your smart and avoid it and the lag makes it way worse.

That is a position desync and it affects far more than just dark con. The key thing people don't realize is that the pull is not what kills them. In the case of a harmony necro, their boneyard synergy hits a 28M diameter whereas dark con is only 20m. You would have died anyway, and in fact the "sweatier" necro builds don't even use any pulls since it would be useless on other good players.

So naturally you might ask "What is the pull for?" Occult range is 4m and VD range is 5m. Dark convergence / Rush of Agony is purely a pug zerg bomber that brings everything together to proc on-death effects.

I’ve not died a single time to just boneyard. It is always getting pulled into the middle of a pestilence colossus and bone yard combo that instantly one shots. You can’t react to it when there is lag because the pull desyncs you. And I have over 30k health with high resistances.

Some part of that *** needs to be nerfed.

A dawnbreaker + boneyard will beat a colo + boneyard combo in a 1v1, mostly because DC is so easily avoided but also because the non-DC necro can run an extra ~1000 SP/WP. I don't know of any properly built PVP player that has died solo to a DC necro bomb. However, your 30k hp and resistances are useless once the 2 pugs you're hard stacked on die and pop VD/Occult.

taugrim

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Rush of agony is already far better and has less counterplay than dark con, it is just gated behind a lot of sticker farming so less people run it.

The ability to target the placement of DC is a big mechanical advantage. The ability to do this from range is another big advantage.

With RoA, you only pull to where you land, which puts you in the middle of the fighting. You can't pull people into lava for instant wipe like you can with DC.

This is why glass cannon builds with DC are able to use the set and live. Whereas with RoA you are going to eat damage in many situations.

I run RoA and love the set, but to say it's 'far better' than DC is misinformed. You rarely see people bitching about RoA like they do about DC.

Melzo

For a set of DC, the necromancer pays with extremely weak survivability. When you have 16-18 armor you will die from love procast. You also won't be able to kill 1v1 with this set. And if you mean nb. Then even without this set he can blow everyone up. He's done it much better before without this set.

In small battles, this set is quite weak. Practically useless against NB and sorcerers. Does not work against players in a group if you don't have help to damage them. And it's only good when one player accidentally died)))

This patch has a lot of problems, but certainly not this set.

Durham

LOL Meizo every organized group in PVP runs this set out there. When you see to ball groups fighting its a pull contest who can get the best pull bomb. This offer to much utility not to run a huge area CC that repositions everyone into nice little ball. , is way to strong. If your solo yes you are weak in this set-up but you can also get nice bombs off! I'm sorry I just want diversity tired of the same old fights man.

This set limits the diversity in combat because it dominate PVP right now. A ton of group center its combat around this set.

This set just like all other proc sets is cancer in this game.

Sandman929

Melzo wrote: »

This patch has a lot of problems, but certainly not this set.

Convergence isn't a problem with this patch, it's an ongoing problem from previous patches. Any engagement larger than a few players has been made significantly less fun by constantly being pulled into someone's ambition for creating a bomb clip.
It's past time to do away with this blight on PvP.

Cuddlypuff

Sandman929 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

This patch has a lot of problems, but certainly not this set.

Convergence isn't a problem with this patch, it's an ongoing problem from previous patches. Any engagement larger than a few players has been made significantly less fun by constantly being pulled into someone's ambition for creating a bomb clip.
It's past time to do away with this blight on PvP.

No it just punishes faction stacking and PvDooring. The clips are just a bonus.

Sandman929

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

This patch has a lot of problems, but certainly not this set.

Convergence isn't a problem with this patch, it's an ongoing problem from previous patches. Any engagement larger than a few players has been made significantly less fun by constantly being pulled into someone's ambition for creating a bomb clip.
It's past time to do away with this blight on PvP.

No it just punishes faction stacking and PvDooring. The clips are just a bonus.

It's a zerg set being used by zergs for zergs. Anyone who's spent any time in Cyrodiil knows it. The idea that's is some hand of justice against zergs is laughable when it makes up 90% of the zerg.

Cuddlypuff

Sandman929 wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

This patch has a lot of problems, but certainly not this set.

Convergence isn't a problem with this patch, it's an ongoing problem from previous patches. Any engagement larger than a few players has been made significantly less fun by constantly being pulled into someone's ambition for creating a bomb clip.
It's past time to do away with this blight on PvP.

No it just punishes faction stacking and PvDooring. The clips are just a bonus.

It's a zerg set being used by zergs for zergs. Anyone who's spent any time in Cyrodiil knows it. The idea that's is some hand of justice against zergs is laughable when it makes up 90% of the zerg.

Who cares if they can't use it or defend against it

Durham

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

This patch has a lot of problems, but certainly not this set.

Convergence isn't a problem with this patch, it's an ongoing problem from previous patches. Any engagement larger than a few players has been made significantly less fun by constantly being pulled into someone's ambition for creating a bomb clip.
It's past time to do away with this blight on PvP.

No it just punishes faction stacking and PvDooring. The clips are just a bonus.

It's a zerg set being used by zergs for zergs. Anyone who's spent any time in Cyrodiil knows it. The idea that's is some hand of justice against zergs is laughable when it makes up 90% of the zerg.

Who cares if they can't use it or defend against it

LOL I care because you are using a set that does everything for you. Its used in almost every situation in PVP which makes it broke. Its a proc set that is to good not use. Teamed mainly with a necro or a ball group or even a small man group set up for a bomb like condition. Death comes from very powerful procs that are in the game. This is poor combat development that does provide any depth to the combat system. In ball groups you are constantly hearing pull orders to bomb. In small 5-8 man groups they no longer assist to bring targets down they bomb them down.

JustAGoodPlayer

Durham wrote: »

This set was not nerfed in the right way. This set is still going to be the go to set in PVP. Every ball group will run it, every small effective group will run it. Its just to good still. On paper it still provides tons of utility. The new 25 sec cool down its sounds pretty bad but its really nothing. This set is part of the current meta, this nerf does nothing to that.

People are going to say its easy to avoid, its crap! Guess what if it is so bad how come every ball group runs it. Every serious 4-8 man runs it. Its a a easy AP curb stomp.

Multiple people in ball groups run this set 25 secs is not enough and not the right way to nerf the set. (Radius change would be best or take away some of the utility of the set) 25 secs will actually hurt the smaller groups not the ball or multi-ball groups.

This set is not competive and it actually hurts the fun in running organized grouping. I so tired of fighting on pulls! If you attack another ball group and lets say both use it who every pulls in a stealth archer with 20k health wins lol.. This is not a good way to win.

This set is not even a problem if you can press block in 2 seconds you can see the animation )

So player who can not press a block and have 2 seconds for that ask to nerf set ?

OK ! Lags are problem, some times you even do not see animation.

True - it is a problem !

But fix lag problem than, what set did to you ?

Durham

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

This set was not nerfed in the right way. This set is still going to be the go to set in PVP. Every ball group will run it, every small effective group will run it. Its just to good still. On paper it still provides tons of utility. The new 25 sec cool down its sounds pretty bad but its really nothing. This set is part of the current meta, this nerf does nothing to that.

People are going to say its easy to avoid, its crap! Guess what if it is so bad how come every ball group runs it. Every serious 4-8 man runs it. Its a a easy AP curb stomp.

Multiple people in ball groups run this set 25 secs is not enough and not the right way to nerf the set. (Radius change would be best or take away some of the utility of the set) 25 secs will actually hurt the smaller groups not the ball or multi-ball groups.

This set is not competive and it actually hurts the fun in running organized grouping. I so tired of fighting on pulls! If you attack another ball group and lets say both use it who every pulls in a stealth archer with 20k health wins lol.. This is not a good way to win.

This set is not even a problem if you can press block in 2 seconds you can see the animation )

So player who can not press a block and have 2 seconds for that ask to nerf set ?

OK ! Lags are problem, some times you even do not see animation.

True - it is a problem !

But fix lag problem than, what set did to you ?

JustAGoodPlayer

If lags problem - better ask to look ZOS to find bug in some healers set it make skill stop working as in 2021 azurblight did.

May be game will start normally work after that and changes even will not be needed )

I use this set in PVE on half naked ALT character ))) It pulls mobs good )))

X_K

taugrim wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

Rush of agony is already far better and has less counterplay than dark con, it is just gated behind a lot of sticker farming so less people run it.

The ability to target the placement of DC is a big mechanical advantage. The ability to do this from range is another big advantage.

With RoA, you only pull to where you land, which puts you in the middle of the fighting. You can't pull people into lava for instant wipe like you can with DC.

This is why glass cannon builds with DC are able to use the set and live. Whereas with RoA you are going to eat damage in many situations.

I run RoA and love the set, but to say it's 'far better' than DC is misinformed. You rarely see people bitching about RoA like they do about DC.

ROA wolf builds with 50k hp don't seem to care bout the incoming damage that much

Durham

The set itself is not a problem its the situation that it creates.

CC is an extremally powerful tool in a game. Just the CC by itself is strong enough for this set to be used by groups.

In the game I want you to look a keep defense. You will see most of the people there defending are probably not even in a group they are just there defending the best they can. I want you to look at the health of these players. In PVP especially in AD you see people running around with 23k health all the time. Why because this is good health in PVE. In keep fights most of these people do not fight and die they defend and run. They are all just pulled into a ball and are insta killed. These guys stood no threat lol. Any organized group would have destroyed them but instead of giving them a chance to use abilities you pulled them in a little bomb and insta killed them. Due to low health it does not matter if you block or not. This is not healthy for the PVP community and deters people from staying in PVP.

Last night in a keep fight as a blue group zerg came into a keep. This zerg outnumbered its defenders 2 to 1. I saw 7 DC animations. There was no zerg in the keep they used it on Guards and a few randoms that are trying to get into the door.

PVP will only use sets that are effective stop trying to push the fact that this set is not effective when it dominates the PVP scene atm. Its CC contribution is powerful tool that almost every organized group utilizes right now.