Trivial reason everyone is angry with the patch ...

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

Troodon80 wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But what's the point of nerfing DPS and content to match the nerf if the net effect of doing both is the same as now? Just keep it the way it is and save yourself all that unnecessary work.

It serves three main things:-
Doesn't decrease or increase the overall feel of power

Keeps the overall time to kill in content more or less the same across the board, adjusted for specific content (i.e. Maw of Lorkhaj doesn't really need to be touched, but the newer content should be brought in line with the proposed changes)

Allows for an easier time balancing on much smaller increments or decrements

It means that someone who was in the bracket of "at the moment, I can clear X trial" doesn't get shoved into the bracket of "I guess I'm just sticking to questing and Craglorn trials from now on." While the third allows for future changes to be much smaller in scale than what we have been getting while still allowing for shifts in meta by adjusting this or that ability. You cannot just release content over two years specifically designed and aimed towards the highest end of DPS for those years and then nerf DPS from anything between 20% and up to 50% (depending on build (class, race, sets, CP) and player skill) and expect people to be happy. That result is: content no longer gets cleared by people who were previously clearing it. That doesn't make people want to continue playing. It creates a divisive rift in the community, which is exactly what we see right now.

ESO is heavily orientated toward DPS with an almost-complete disregard for any other role, but we're not even talking about just player damage output here. Most enemy applied DoTs in PvE tick at intervals which are not 2s. They tick at varied intervals depending on the DoT, from anywhere between 100ms up to 1 second. Some of them are incredibly heavy and can be stacked, like the bleeds in Rockgrove during Bahsei. This change effectively brings down HPS (something which has been sorely needed) but increases the pressure on supports and broadens the skill gap between those who can do the content and those who cannot (which also goes against the alledged intent of closing the gap).

Good words.

And some not really exp players always talk about their DPS.

Must a good DD do mechanics, res other players do a lot of tasks if needed ?
I think yes. But what he must not di - talk about his DPS.

I can do LA rotation, but i do not like it. Is it hard to do ? Pff nope. It is more harder to hear about it all the time ! Yes it is harder than no la betwin skills. HA rotation is near the same as no la but only skills. So if balance all near HA+LA+skill rotation all classes will have near the same DPS including sustained classes.

And it is all knowledge the game gives. So it is logickal to balance game on this !

Ok let the people who do la+bash+skill do more DPS, it is trully hard. You tired much more on it, but it is not some thing game breaking ! So others have to do less but not much less amount. Bash+la - 10 k damage more OK ! For record runs it will be needed to do. But not for other content.

And HA already get to 100k DPS, but nerf nerf nerf nerf - and sorc do 140 k dps ..
normal ???

100/110k difference with +-2k difference depend on classes, but not more.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

It really boggles my mind, how so many on the forum can be so critical of this patch.

I don't want to act like an ESO-simp being their "white knight". There are many adjustments I do not agree with being a Necro-main myself. Therefore my biast opinions on the class has no value.

Zenimax are a bit clumsy when it comes to balancing changes. Many other games avoid the "nerf" term and instead buffs everything else except the "thing" that needs to be "nerfed".
It's just simple psychology that the main you "play" you don't want to see nerfed.

Light attack nerf affects us all. But think about it, how would the reaction on the forum be if they buffed "everything" in the game except for light attacks.

I don't want to speak for anyone but myself, but just a Nerf Mentality or a Buff Mentality is bad Balance. There should basically be a standard range that everyone should be in and outliers should be brought in. Huge Sledgehammer swings are the worst way to do this in my opinion. Crystal Weapon + Savage Werewolf was a huge outlier. There's other things such as Magicka Warden that was absolutely Terrible last patch that needs to be brought up to standard.

People need to be critical of these changes because it pushes game balance in a bad direction, damage squish is fine if the content is getting squished as well but it doesn't look like it is, so the people who were bad will be even worse. That's the real issue.

divnyi · July 2022

For me, it's not because they reduce power, it's because they do insane balance changes without any valid reason.

Huge global changes always cause unbalanced things in huge numbers.
We already knew what was balanced and what needed correction before. Balance was achiavable.
We yet again move further from the balanced game state.

And I was okay before. Because changes had aim.

DoT rebalance patch addressed disproportionate inequalities in DPS per dot, although reduced DoT so low that they aren't usable in PvP anymore.

Proc set scaling had a valid reason - proc sets on tanks. It took time to balance it out, but overall, worth it.

Hybridisation was implemented horribly and unbalanced game state (based on retrospective statistics), but at least it allowed to have broader variance of possible skill combinations. Which, unfortunately, are overshadowed by hybrid Most Effective Tactic - yes, META is hybrid and pure stam and mag don't like the state of things.

What they are trying to do now has no valid big aim.

Raise the floor?
First of all, it failed. Percent damage loss of casual players is close to -50%, while high-end PvErs show -25%.
Secondly, you don't need huge changes to do that. Make Oakensoul usable. Make lightning heavy attacks usable.

Make the rotation more fun, instead of having 10 dots in bars?
Ok, but everyone mentioned that mashing 15 spammables in a row isn't fun.

Make PvP more balanced, reducing HoTs?
First of all, skill changes create huge imbalances. New sets create huge imbalances. DoT nerf yeets skill DoTs out of PvP. Some classes can be thrown into the garbage bin, while some classes will completely dominate the field.
Secondly, you can just change two-three numbers in Battle Spirit. Yes, change. No need to introduce anything new.

It is a balance catastrophe on the global scale, nevermind that it forces players to remade all of their builds, again, or even level a character of a new class, because some are nerfed to the ground.

wolfie1.0. · July 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

Everyone's unhappy because they are losing years of power progression, but that's really the point of this patch.

ESO is all about horizontal progression. The Devs add player power in the form of new mythic items, new gear, and buffs to underused skills and classes. The Devs take away player power from older gear and and nerfs to overused skills and classes. And every so often, when power creep has hit a certain point, they hard nerf everyone. And the cycle starts anew.

Morrowind and Murkmire were two big nerf updates. Both of them hit everyone from ceiling to floor. Lost Depths is going to be another one.

Of course players aren't happy. But losing years of power progression creep (that the Devs added into the game) is a feature of this update, not a bug.

At this point.

I want to sacrifice horizontal progression for vertical progression.

We have to remake gear every time there is one of these updates. So just give us level cap increases at this point.

starkerealm · July 2022

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

Light attack nerf affects us all. But think about it, how would the reaction on the forum be if they buffed "everything" in the game except for light attacks.

The difference between what we have on live, and your suggestion is twofold.

First, if they buffed everything except light attacks, we probably wouldn't be in the situation where entire classes were getting kicked to the curb.

Second, if they buffed everything instead of this, you wouldn't see these posts from people who have been genuinely trying to improve for years only for ZOS to trash their character on a whim, and tell them, they're no longer good enough for large swaths of content they were participating in and enjoying.

Klingenlied · July 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

Light attack nerf affects us all. But think about it, how would the reaction on the forum be if they buffed "everything" in the game except for light attacks.

The difference between what we have on live, and your suggestion is twofold.

First, if they buffed everything except light attacks, we probably wouldn't be in the situation where entire classes were getting kicked to the curb.

Second, if they buffed everything instead of this, you wouldn't see these posts from people who have been genuinely trying to improve for years only for ZOS to trash their character on a whim, and tell them, they're no longer good enough for large swaths of content they were participating in and enjoying.

Slight buff to direct damage. Double dot, buff & debuff duration without dps adjustments and they could have "removed" la damage - still people would be able to clear everything and there would not have been the need to readjust everything.

The current changes mean we likely will see the neccessity to rebalance a lot of content and encounter. That will be a lot of work. If this gets ignored? Oh my .. goodbye ESO endgame. Goodbye ESO streaming representation. Game might die as fast as the recent Amazon project.

starkerealm · July 2022

Klingenlied wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

Light attack nerf affects us all. But think about it, how would the reaction on the forum be if they buffed "everything" in the game except for light attacks.

The difference between what we have on live, and your suggestion is twofold.

First, if they buffed everything except light attacks, we probably wouldn't be in the situation where entire classes were getting kicked to the curb.

Second, if they buffed everything instead of this, you wouldn't see these posts from people who have been genuinely trying to improve for years only for ZOS to trash their character on a whim, and tell them, they're no longer good enough for large swaths of content they were participating in and enjoying.

Slight buff to direct damage. Double dot, buff & debuff duration without dps adjustments and they could have "removed" la damage - still people would be able to clear everything and there would not have been the need to readjust everything.

The current changes mean we likely will see the neccessity to rebalance a lot of content and encounter. That will be a lot of work. If this gets ignored? Oh my .. goodbye ESO endgame. Goodbye ESO streaming representation. Game might die as fast as the recent Amazon project.

Oh, yeah, no, if they had calculated damage up slightly, they could have removed weaving entirely without issue.

Tannus15 · July 2022

In real terms we are being nerfed back to below morrowind levels of dps.

Try putting on a basic setup like julianos and mothers sorrow and see how bad they are now. We're crutching hard on rele single target dps to push up our numbers. That's why the top end don't looks so bad compared to the mid tier, we're using dummy META to keep the numbers up.

Anyone who thinks this is fine, try a parse with a slightly off meta like Yandir and Tzogvin instead of Rele and Kinra. I promise you, your dps is in the toilet.

virtus753 · July 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

Everyone's unhappy because they are losing years of power progression, but that's really the point of this patch.

ESO is all about horizontal progression. The Devs add player power in the form of new mythic items, new gear, and buffs to underused skills and classes. The Devs take away player power from older gear and and nerfs to overused skills and classes. And every so often, when power creep has hit a certain point, they hard nerf everyone. And the cycle starts anew.

Morrowind and Murkmire were two big nerf updates. Both of them hit everyone from ceiling to floor. Lost Depths is going to be another one.

Of course players aren't happy. But losing years of power progression creep (that the Devs added into the game) is a feature of this update, not a bug.

Removing years of power creep is something that needs to be done a lot more carefully than with an executioner's axe.

If done properly, and if recent content is adjusted, we can handle it.

But content that requires "obscene" damage can't magically be done at 75% or less of "obscene." If they want to set back our damage and healing to, say, 2019, or even before, how do they reasonably expect anyone at all to complete 2020-2022 content like Falgravn HM, Xalvakka HM, vDSR tri? Wait for the power creep of 2025?

And it raises related questions for those just getting into new levels of content. People who are just coming into view of vet content, of vet DLC content, of vet DLC HM content, of tris - all of them will get set back enormously. Doing it this way - in one fell swoop, with huge damage/healing adjustments and no content adjustments - greatly risks demoralizing players who suddenly find themselves so far away from what they'd begun to aspire to. Already players at every level are becoming demoralized at the patch notes and at actual experiences on the PTS. The sentiment in my guilds (which range from newer players to people who prog and complete trifectas regularly) is utterly depressing to see.

Power adjustments need to be done a lot more sensitively than this. Fewer changes at a time, smaller numbers at a time, concomitant adjustments for recent content. See how it works; modify as necessary. The devs acknowledged two days ago that they know how exhausting the ups and downs of the DoT swings were. Yet here they are pushing even more sweeping changes than that, removing 25% damage in the best case and much more than that in many others.

Expecting us to still meet the same height requirements for the amusement ride is a tall order when they're cutting us off at the knees.

Ishtarknows · July 2022

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

I was in vKA hm last night, with an overall good group.

The pulls were all in excess of 12 minutes for the last boss because he has a quarter BILLION hit points

We didn't clear. Not because of any one thing. People just got tired. Fps was dropping. A tank crashed, and then the other tank crashed. Healers started to get sloppy by the third or forth pull-- 2 straight hours of raiding, with multiple 10 minute plus pulls on last boss will do that. People started to dot out.
This is not an elite end game team. This are mid-level players, trying to improve. We did every single mechanic the best we could. We were able to kill about half the torturers, but didn't have the dps to kill all of them.
At the end of the night we left feeling defeated. How long will that fight take us next patch? We are struggling with it so much now-- will it even be POSSIBLE?

When vKA first came out the top parses were around 90k so it's just gonna be similar experience to launch, bit easier since theres better support sets than back then.

But with HoTs only ticking once every 2 seconds when Falgravn's DoT damage ticks twice a second? Hmm

sneakymitchell · July 2022

Sandman929 wrote: »

If content can be cleared at new damage levels, I think the dps loss should be acceptable, but I am not a sweaty PvEer by any means.
However, the DoT changes without a doubt will make combat a boring spamfest while everyone has nothing else to do waiting 10-15 seconds before DoTs need to be refreshed. This is not active combat, it's dull.

You just use spamables while trying to light attack weave.

Geez it’s like we should remove spamable skills and just light attack

Sandman929 · July 2022

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

If content can be cleared at new damage levels, I think the dps loss should be acceptable, but I am not a sweaty PvEer by any means.
However, the DoT changes without a doubt will make combat a boring spamfest while everyone has nothing else to do waiting 10-15 seconds before DoTs need to be refreshed. This is not active combat, it's dull.

You just use spamables while trying to light attack weave.

Geez it’s like we should remove spamable skills and just light attack

Or use that time to grab a sip of coffee while the DoT timers run...no need to worry about weaving anything. We're supposed to be enjoying the scenery here

Holycannoli · July 2022

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

It really boggles my mind, how so many on the forum can be so critical of this patch.

I don't want to act like an ESO-simp being their "white knight". There are many adjustments I do not agree with being a Necro-main myself. Therefore my biast opinions on the class has no value.

Zenimax are a bit clumsy when it comes to balancing changes. Many other games avoid the "nerf" term and instead buffs everything else except the "thing" that needs to be "nerfed".
It's just simple psychology that the main you "play" you don't want to see nerfed.

Light attack nerf affects us all. But think about it, how would the reaction on the forum be if they buffed "everything" in the game except for light attacks.

Light attack is the least of our concerns.

shadyjane62 · July 2022

DairyCat wrote: »

Progression is relative. If everyone loses it, no one loses it.

Have the mobs we have to beat lose it?

redlink1979 · July 2022

Lost DePthS

VaranisArano · July 2022

redlink1979 wrote: »

Lost DePthS

I'm really hoping this becomes the patch name like "Nerfmire" did.

jecks33 · July 2022

I'm not angry or mad, because of these changes and nerfs I simply have lost my enthusiasm in this game.

I'm a former "end gamer", I did years of trials since 2017, I left all my trial groups when they indroduced the hybridization thing (I really don't like it, I know it's my fault but I can't keep following a meta I don't like...) so in the last few months I played alone, working hard to push the only competitive thing you can do alone: arenas.
I worked hard to pass 580k in VMA and 285k in VVH, my new target was to push those scores high but when I saw the patch notes I've lost all my enthusiasm. Why should I keep doing the only thing I still like if I know that I'll will get a worse score? Where is the fun in looking at my progresses completely ruined?