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I really don't understand the huge negativity surrounding the U35
Parasaurolophus
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First, I would like to say that I am a longtime end player. Not high end as I don't do scorepushing. But I have some trifects in trials and dungeons and am currently in a GS prog raid. I see U35 causing a lot of negativity and anxiety. Yes, I also think that increasing the dot`s time is extreme, and the same time makes the rotation boring. But the thread is not about that. I often see comments that casuals and beginners shouldn't be able to quickly and easily master veteran hm content. And no matter how good the changes in U35 are, I'd like to share my thoughts on why more acceptable combat and content availability would be a boon for ESO.
First, what is Elder Scrolls Online? Obviously this is an MMO in the TES universe. But it would be naive to believe that this game is only for fans of the Elder Scrolls series. ESO is first and foremost a game-service, and like any other similar project, it strives to embrace and keep the mass player. However, ESO is very different from the classic RPG from the Elder Scrolls series. Honestly. Fallout76 is more like Elder Scrolls Online than ESO itself. Moreover, ESO, unlike many other modern MMOs, is completely devoid of important sandbox elements. The game does not have the ability to build houses, a wide and complex crafting system, world and guild pvp with location retention, and so on. ESO is a game entirely about conquering content. Clear the location, complete all quests and poi, get achievements, close the trial or dungeon, complete daily quests. And all this is carried out exclusively by combat. I want to say that combat is the core of ESO. Yes, the game has house decoration, fishing and theft. But all this does not represent some kind of really deep system that combat is. Rich said in one of his interviews that he plans to add more non-combat activities to the game. And that would be great, really. I really liked ToT. But I can't imagine a scenario in which eso turns into sims, minecraft, or even something similar to bdo. It turns out that a player who cannot fully master the combat is deprived of the opportunity to master the core of the game. And this is where the problems begin...
ESO is already quite an old game. Every year it gets harder and harder for eso to compete with new projects. Look at the hype around FF14 or Genshin right now. What a hype was around NW. The golden days for ESO are over for some reason. Moreover, we see how many new players who come to ESO begin to compare it with other multiplayer projects. We see players asking for world pvp, flying mounts, naval battles and so on. All this ESO cannot give and is unlikely to be able to give in the future. All that ESO can give is questing, quality pve content, dynamic pvp. It's not bad, don't get me wrong. ZoS is the best at creating pve content and better than many other similar projects. And here we come face to face with the combat system. And she is beautiful, unique and dynamic. But there is one significant problem - too much learning curve.
We all here understand perfectly well why real tanks do not want to run random normal. We all know very well that almost no one uses random vet. Now just imagine how many people every day, on all servers and all platforms, are faced with a completely frustrating experience. Rich said that he didn't want to create a queue for trials because it's completely pointless since the statistics from random normal/vet show very low performance.
Like I said, since the game is 8 years old, it's getting harder and harder to attract new players. I and many others have noticed that the overland is getting empty. That on the release of Blackwood and High Isle, the locations were empty. Literally in the first week after the release of past chapters, there were crowds of players around each quest marker. Now it's empty and quiet. I think ZoS can no longer keep the population with new releases and events every month. New players are no longer interested in such an old project, and old players, even casual ones, are losing interest in generic content and endless recurring events. Therefore, ZoS decided to simplify the fight in order to attract as many players as possible to the core of ESO. Remember the Summerset patch when the damage was greatly increased. There has been a real boom in veteran content. Many players began to conquer trials and dungeons. It wasn't as hard anymore and it wasn't as really painful as it used to be. But apparently it wasn't enough. More precisely, this was enough to keep the population of players back then. But not now.
Many commentators are quite emotional about the combat changes in the U35, saying that ZoS wants every casual or newbie to be able to close hm`s RG and DSR. This is not true. Nowhere in the patch notes or in the open letter was there any mention of killing the skill factor. It's true that if a player doesn't want to master combat, he won't. But if the player wants to master the fight, then he gets on a rather difficult path. It takes years, in different cases, of course, but still quite a long time for weaving and honed rotation to simply become a habit. In addition, weaving and rotation is not all. You still need to be able to sometimes apply skills adequately to mechanics and situations. You need to learn how to correctly burst and finish off. In general, you need to get used to how this game works and how its mechanics work. Yes, of course the skill factor of the player cannot be ruled out. But the problem is that these skills give too much advantage for your dps.
I've been playing this game almost since release. And to be honest, the combat system has not changed in any way in all these 8 years. I learned weaving when it became relevant, but it took me a year or two to master it completely. It took me even longer to learn a generally high apm. Since then, nothing has changed and nothing significant will change in this patch. Look at it for yourself - we still need to weave to be as efficient as possible. We will still need to keep apm high. We'll still need to keep an eye on the timings (although 20 seconds is too extreme for 10 slots lol I agree). In a recent eso live, very big plans were announced. In my wishual thinking, I'm hoping that a more acceptable fight will open up the possibility of a harder overland, perhaps a revision of the content model and yearly stories.
UPD: In short, ESO is a game about combat, about dungeons and raids. ESO will never be able to become a full-fledged sandbox for a casual audience. There are many other great projects for this and it's too late for eso to change anything. But pve content is great and ZoS should attract more players there, because the old population retention models are no longer so good for objective reasons.
Edited by Parasaurolophus on July 13, 2022 12:51AM First, what is Elder Scrolls Online? Obviously this is an MMO in the TES universe. But it would be naive to believe that this game is only for fans of the Elder Scrolls series. ESO is first and foremost a game-service, and like any other similar project, it strives to embrace and keep the mass player. However, ESO is very different from the classic RPG from the Elder Scrolls series. Honestly. Fallout76 is more like Elder Scrolls Online than ESO itself. Moreover, ESO, unlike many other modern MMOs, is completely devoid of important sandbox elements. The game does not have the ability to build houses, a wide and complex crafting system, world and guild pvp with location retention, and so on. ESO is a game entirely about conquering content. Clear the location, complete all quests and poi, get achievements, close the trial or dungeon, complete daily quests. And all this is carried out exclusively by combat. I want to say that combat is the core of ESO. Yes, the game has house decoration, fishing and theft. But all this does not represent some kind of really deep system that combat is. Rich said in one of his interviews that he plans to add more non-combat activities to the game. And that would be great, really. I really liked ToT. But I can't imagine a scenario in which eso turns into sims, minecraft, or even something similar to bdo. It turns out that a player who cannot fully master the combat is deprived of the opportunity to master the core of the game. And this is where the problems begin...
ESO is already quite an old game. Every year it gets harder and harder for eso to compete with new projects. Look at the hype around FF14 or Genshin right now. What a hype was around NW. The golden days for ESO are over for some reason. Moreover, we see how many new players who come to ESO begin to compare it with other multiplayer projects. We see players asking for world pvp, flying mounts, naval battles and so on. All this ESO cannot give and is unlikely to be able to give in the future. All that ESO can give is questing, quality pve content, dynamic pvp. It's not bad, don't get me wrong. ZoS is the best at creating pve content and better than many other similar projects. And here we come face to face with the combat system. And she is beautiful, unique and dynamic. But there is one significant problem - too much learning curve.
We all here understand perfectly well why real tanks do not want to run random normal. We all know very well that almost no one uses random vet. Now just imagine how many people every day, on all servers and all platforms, are faced with a completely frustrating experience. Rich said that he didn't want to create a queue for trials because it's completely pointless since the statistics from random normal/vet show very low performance.
Like I said, since the game is 8 years old, it's getting harder and harder to attract new players. I and many others have noticed that the overland is getting empty. That on the release of Blackwood and High Isle, the locations were empty. Literally in the first week after the release of past chapters, there were crowds of players around each quest marker. Now it's empty and quiet. I think ZoS can no longer keep the population with new releases and events every month. New players are no longer interested in such an old project, and old players, even casual ones, are losing interest in generic content and endless recurring events. Therefore, ZoS decided to simplify the fight in order to attract as many players as possible to the core of ESO. Remember the Summerset patch when the damage was greatly increased. There has been a real boom in veteran content. Many players began to conquer trials and dungeons. It wasn't as hard anymore and it wasn't as really painful as it used to be. But apparently it wasn't enough. More precisely, this was enough to keep the population of players back then. But not now.
Many commentators are quite emotional about the combat changes in the U35, saying that ZoS wants every casual or newbie to be able to close hm`s RG and DSR. This is not true. Nowhere in the patch notes or in the open letter was there any mention of killing the skill factor. It's true that if a player doesn't want to master combat, he won't. But if the player wants to master the fight, then he gets on a rather difficult path. It takes years, in different cases, of course, but still quite a long time for weaving and honed rotation to simply become a habit. In addition, weaving and rotation is not all. You still need to be able to sometimes apply skills adequately to mechanics and situations. You need to learn how to correctly burst and finish off. In general, you need to get used to how this game works and how its mechanics work. Yes, of course the skill factor of the player cannot be ruled out. But the problem is that these skills give too much advantage for your dps.
I've been playing this game almost since release. And to be honest, the combat system has not changed in any way in all these 8 years. I learned weaving when it became relevant, but it took me a year or two to master it completely. It took me even longer to learn a generally high apm. Since then, nothing has changed and nothing significant will change in this patch. Look at it for yourself - we still need to weave to be as efficient as possible. We will still need to keep apm high. We'll still need to keep an eye on the timings (although 20 seconds is too extreme for 10 slots lol I agree). In a recent eso live, very big plans were announced. In my wishual thinking, I'm hoping that a more acceptable fight will open up the possibility of a harder overland, perhaps a revision of the content model and yearly stories.
UPD: In short, ESO is a game about combat, about dungeons and raids. ESO will never be able to become a full-fledged sandbox for a casual audience. There are many other great projects for this and it's too late for eso to change anything. But pve content is great and ZoS should attract more players there, because the old population retention models are no longer so good for objective reasons.
PC/EU
9
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washbern✭✭✭✭The changes are not good as they are. Whatever this grand design for the future ZOS has is either lip service or unnecessarily hidden secret.
If big things are coming that would appease the angered masses then they should be shared so we see the changes for what they truly are. Without that, all we see is incompetence, delusion, disassociation and disrespect.
It took me a very very long time to even find out about weaving, let alone learn it. I do t even do trifecta trials. But there is just nothing good about this patch.27 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's a clear distinction between what they wanted to do and what they accomplished.33 -
chessalavakia_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing is, ZOS isn't making the combat more accessible with Update 35.
If you want a simple damage build today one of the easiest options is Puncturing Sweep which is taking a 21% damage hit to the primary target as well as a hit to the healing in Update 35.
The Oakensoul Ring simplifies builds and in much of the content of the game it's getting a nerf in Update 35.
Radiating Regeneration is an easy way to heal a group that isn't coordinated and are running every which way it's taking a 40% healing hit in Update 35.
15 -
Arthtur✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sigh.
Lets start with the fact that this patch makes game harder for weaker players. If somebody was able to barerly do vMA on live, he wont be able to do it most of the time after the new patch. Like those nerfs are so bad that even ppl in overland will feel it. For many ppl this may look like "yeah he is complaing because he got nerfed". And im not gonna lie, i would prefer if it would be true...
This patch hurts the most ppl that it was suposed to help. This is one of the threads about it on PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611340/u35-changes-are-much-worse-for-average-low-apm-players-vs-end-game-players#latest
They said "Love for HA builds"... and HA got nuked. I dont know what more i need to say.
Oh maybe the fact that DoTs are so weak that basic adds in overland take longer to die which creates problems for DoT lovers.
For endgame there are things that hurt more than some nerfs.
Lets start with the fact that long dots make combat boring. As DK i used my spammable 20x in a row. Sorry but this is just boring.
Next, HoTs. They tick every 2s now. Not a big deal right? Wrong. Damage DoTs from PvE enemies tick every 1s. So tanks health will jump even more and could create more dangerous situations. There could be a situation where ppl will day because of late healing tick.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611333/pve-healers-accessibility-and-hard-mode-trials#latest
Meta change. Again ppl have to change their weapons. They buffed 2h so it was good on backbar. Now they overnerfed it. Ppl are tired of changes. Like if this would be small nerf maybe nobody would care but.... they just send it to oblivion compared to other options.
Boss mechs and DoTs duration. There are bosses that move around every 12s or dont take damage every 15s until u do mech. DoTs become a lot, lot weaker in those places. Lets not talk about trash packs.
Its still week 1 so ppl will still find more problems.
PvP... lets just say that looking at the new broken set shows how much they know about PvP.
So in short... everyone is nerfed. And for that we get... nothing. Just nothing. There is no benefit for this patch. If there is, im sorry but i dont see it. The only person who is not nerfed is a person who uses only spammable.
Dps lower, combat more boring, problems with content... sigh...
And about trusting ZOS... AWA, NPC yelling at me when i do daily writs, this "patch"... Im sorry but "trust" isnt a candy that u get just because u want it.
Oh and ZOS doesnt have any plan. With LA nerfs they just reverted changes made 30 months ago (U25).15 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't have any interest in anything beyond questing in overland. And with this patch (assuming it goes live this way) I won't be able to just quest in overland. It's as if those people who were pushing for harder overland got exactly what they wanted - in a sideways almost bass-ackwards sort of way.
The bottom line here is that I have crap internet, and my reflexes are - old. If I can't manage to get through overland without dying every time I wind up fronting 2 mobs.... then why am I playing this game, and paying 3 annual subs?______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....9 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't have any interest in anything beyond questing in overland. And with this patch (assuming it goes live this way) I won't be able to just quest in overland. It's as if those people who were pushing for harder overland got exactly what they wanted - in a sideways almost bass-ackwards sort of way.
You might be able to quest in overland, but it might take longer to kill everything. That's my fear. Right now, I can usually kill trash fairly quickly, so it's not that bad running through a zone and having to fight stuff. If it's going to take me twice or three times as long every time I run into something, the game is going to become tedious in a hurry.
(I'm like you. I spend pretty much all my time in overland. I do low DPS. I'll be even worse now, but I'm trying to keep an open mind until I can try out the changes myself in August.)3 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If ZoS has a design they want to do for the future of the game, there is no reason to keep it secret when it comes to numbers. Rather than nerfing everything and telling us to trust them, they need to show us everything they have in mind when it comes to changes to combat, because otherwise there is no good track record for us trusting them.3 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Huge negativity surrounding the U35 , b/c ZOS is not doing what they said
Longer buff timer , huge nerfed DOT , LA , HA , healing and even class skills cannot help the newbies , it cannot narrow the skill level gap .
ESO don't even provide a good game tutorial , no one knows the mob mechanics until they watched youtubes ...
It's debateable should they provide those info or let the players experience themselves... idk , I would prefer learn it myself
e.g.
I will never expect a 200 - 300ish dps know what to do in SCP 1st boss ...1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't have any interest in anything beyond questing in overland. And with this patch (assuming it goes live this way) I won't be able to just quest in overland. It's as if those people who were pushing for harder overland got exactly what they wanted - in a sideways almost bass-ackwards sort of way.
You might be able to quest in overland, but it might take longer to kill everything. That's my fear. Right now, I can usually kill trash fairly quickly, so it's not that bad running through a zone and having to fight stuff. If it's going to take me twice or three times as long every time I run into something, the game is going to become tedious in a hurry.
(I'm like you. I spend pretty much all my time in overland. I do low DPS. I'll be even worse now, but I'm trying to keep an open mind until I can try out the changes myself in August.)
Thanks, I'm glad to be not alone. Though I wish this wasn't happening,People do not like change, for the most part.
Excuse me. I'm MORE than flexible. I'm FINE with change, and have been ever since I started playing this game - except this change is going to make playing (for me - the only person I'm discussing) seriously - much more difficult.Edited by TaSheen on July 13, 2022 2:32AM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....3 -
Blinx✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have carpal tunnel so I don't even try to score push, hardest content I have done is all the normal base dungeons, and I don't like this update.
Am I suppose to enjoy taking twice as long as I use to, to be able to complete a normal dungeon? Heck no!
I've cut down my play time drastically as it is once we got AwA, guess when this update hits, all I'll be logging on is for endeavors if that, because what is even the point in getting cosmetics, or a new mount, if the gameplay is a hot mess!11 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »
I agree some change is good and some is not. However, we tend to complain about change in general.1 -
LeBrenn✭✭✭✭I really don't understand the urge and the effort put into defending and justifying zos actions.13 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I absolutely agree that content should be more accessible to newer/lower tier players, but they're not going to get there by lowering the damage we do. As one of those lower/mid tier players trying to get better, these changes are only going to set me back more.3 -
Crimsonwolf666✭✭✭✭For those with Neurological damage like me....this is gonna suck. I already can't master weaving cuz my nerve issues...now I can't even do Overland content solo??? After working so hard to get where I am..this is a blow to those with Neurological disabilities....3 -
Crimsonwolf666✭✭✭✭Sigh.
Lets start with the fact that this patch makes game harder for weaker players. If somebody was able to barerly do vMA on live, he wont be able to do it most of the time after the new patch. Like those nerfs are so bad that even ppl in overland will feel it. For many ppl this may look like "yeah he is complaing because he got nerfed". And im not gonna lie, i would prefer if it would be true...
This patch hurts the most ppl that it was suposed to help. This is one of the threads about it on PTS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611340/u35-changes-are-much-worse-for-average-low-apm-players-vs-end-game-players#latest
They said "Love for HA builds"... and HA got nuked. I dont know what more i need to say.
Oh maybe the fact that DoTs are so weak that basic adds in overland take longer to die which creates problems for DoT lovers.
For endgame there are things that hurt more than some nerfs.
Lets start with the fact that long dots make combat boring. As DK i used my spammable 20x in a row. Sorry but this is just boring.
Next, HoTs. They tick every 2s now. Not a big deal right? Wrong. Damage DoTs from PvE enemies tick every 1s. So tanks health will jump even more and could create more dangerous situations. There could be a situation where ppl will day because of late healing tick.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611333/pve-healers-accessibility-and-hard-mode-trials#latest
Meta change. Again ppl have to change their weapons. They buffed 2h so it was good on backbar. Now they overnerfed it. Ppl are tired of changes. Like if this would be small nerf maybe nobody would care but.... they just send it to oblivion compared to other options.
Boss mechs and DoTs duration. There are bosses that move around every 12s or dont take damage every 15s until u do mech. DoTs become a lot, lot weaker in those places. Lets not talk about trash packs.
Its still week 1 so ppl will still find more problems.
PvP... lets just say that looking at the new broken set shows how much they know about PvP.
So in short... everyone is nerfed. And for that we get... nothing. Just nothing. There is no benefit for this patch. If there is, im sorry but i dont see it. The only person who is not nerfed is a person who uses only spammable.
Dps lower, combat more boring, problems with content... sigh...
And about trusting ZOS... AWA, NPC yelling at me when i do daily writs, this "patch"... Im sorry but "trust" isnt a candy that u get just because u want it.
Oh and ZOS doesnt have any plan. With LA nerfs they just reverted changes made 30 months ago (U25).
Not only harder for weaker players but for disabled players....we are almost never thought of unless loads of peeps complain. Those with various nerve damage, neurological issues and other injuries that slow their ability to respond to stimuli and even perform "simple" actions like clicking a mouse...this will be felt most by them...by the disabled are the minority, soooo.....3 -
DairyCat✭✭✭
You don't need to weave to do overland content. There are parses of up to 80K DPS without a single light attack.Crimsonwolf666 wrote: »For those with Neurological damage like me....this is gonna suck. I already can't master weaving cuz my nerve issues...now I can't even do Overland content solo??? After working so hard to get where I am..this is a blow to those with Neurological disabilities....1 -
Riptide✭✭✭✭✭
✭At this point I am practically looking forward to it going live. I mean I’ve got emperor, everything I need from vMA, vVH, the raid skins I want and all the rest of it. It never seems to occur to folks that it is the game holistically, and other people that some of us might be concerned about.
And my bugaboo is the timing. Since April folks said oakensoul was cracked, they sit on it, wait till it is released then significantly reduce its effectiveness, creating angst both towards zos and pvpers who didn’t dream up either the item nor the timing, and in fact warned them for months.
Then instead of programatically pulling down the ceiling numbers they go about it in the most comprehensively byzantine way imaginable, literally - which means there will be volatility for an extended time. Again, just after rather than before a major expansion.
And that will take a massive hit on retention to new players who ambled in at the expansion, to say nothing of end game folks, right as you have the most folks in the door rather than before the rush.
It is such a terribly self defeating way to do things, and so I say so. Not because I’m afraid of change, Ive got 10 level 50s and a mountain of resources, its easy - for me. And I’ll hit whatever numbers I need.
My focus is on the folks trying to work their way through vMA the first time, or who are trying to break into raiding etc being exposed to this volatility and giving up. And the raid lead who throws in the towel because they struggle to maintain interest and cohesion.
For some reason this sort of talk is seen as doom and gloom or unfounded angst of some kind. I don’t know any other way to say I’ve seen it play out, in this game, multiple times.
So finally I just shrug at how happy people are, wait till it hits live and try to keep my schadenfreuding to myself when some of the same folks who made lots of posts about how unreasonable people were being post up things far more vitriolic than anything the Cassandras did. Because the truth some folks really only pivot when it affects them personally, which is the main reason it is almost impossible to conceive of some of our point of view and imagine all kinds of ugly hate behind it.
Everything is fine
Esse quam videri.5 -
Xinihp✭✭✭✭✭Why are people upset about the "major combat overhaul" being nothing new and all massive nerfs?
The game is getting extremely stagnant and formula driven. No new weapons since launch. No new classes in what, 4 years? No new skill lines for longer. Now the only "massive update" we get to content is huge 40% nerfs to damn near everything?
They started this year promising they were focusing on quality of life improvements and more measured small adjustments to skills and mechanics. Half a year later and we're already hitting every AOE in the game and half as many class abilities with whimsical 40% nerfs for no describable reason?
The time to kill in PVP will not be improved by this because no one in PVP stands in red or relies on AOE.
In PVE the combat will just drag. The current pacing is really very good. Things die fast, but not too fast as to make it pointless to drop AOE. The timing of those AOE is also about perfect, as by the time they run out you are generally done with that group of mobs and ready to pull another.
With these changes we once again gain nothing new, and are being shoveled massive 40% nerfs that serve no real purpose other than to make combat less well timed and AOE practically not even worth using, effectively taking things away, AGAIN, as if it was some sort of "content update." This after the promises to take things slow.
Sorry, 40%+ nerfs to the whole game is NOT taking it slow, and cutting huge chunks of power is not the same as adding content. Why are people upset? Disappointed is probably a better description.
What good does this actually do for the game?
How does this make the game more fun?
What percent of the player base is really having such a hard time pressing AOE buttons on a simple 2-bar rotation?
Edited by Xinihp on July 13, 2022 3:40AM6 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Thank you for your reply.
I am curious as to how many hours you have spent testing these changes on the PTS?
If the changes will truly make it difficult for you to play the game Zenimax would likely be interested in seeing how your testing went and what aspects made it difficult for you to play the game and how this plays into whatever limitations you may have (without revealing personal information to everyone in the forums ofc).
1 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Parasaurolophus wrote: »And here we come face to face with the combat system. And she is beautiful, unique and dynamic. But there is one significant problem - too much learning curve.
We all here understand perfectly well why real tanks do not want to run random normal. We all know very well that almost no one uses random vet. Now just imagine how many people every day, on all servers and all platforms, are faced with a completely frustrating experience. Rich said that he didn't want to create a queue for trials because it's completely pointless since the statistics from random normal/vet show very low performance.
Like I said, since the game is 8 years old, it's getting harder and harder to attract new players. I and many others have noticed that the overland is getting empty. That on the release of Blackwood and High Isle, the locations were empty. Literally in the first week after the release of past chapters, there were crowds of players around each quest marker. Now it's empty and quiet. I think ZoS can no longer keep the population with new releases and events every month. New players are no longer interested in such an old project, and old players, even casual ones, are losing interest in generic content and endless recurring events. Therefore, ZoS decided to simplify the fight in order to attract as many players as possible to the core of ESO. Remember the Summerset patch when the damage was greatly increased. There has been a real boom in veteran content. Many players began to conquer trials and dungeons. It wasn't as hard anymore and it wasn't as really painful as it used to be. But apparently it wasn't enough. More precisely, this was enough to keep the population of players back then. But not now.
Many commentators are quite emotional about the combat changes in the U35, saying that ZoS wants every casual or newbie to be able to close hm`s RG and DSR. This is not true. Nowhere in the patch notes or in the open letter was there any mention of killing the skill factor. It's true that if a player doesn't want to master combat, he won't. But if the player wants to master the fight, then he gets on a rather difficult path. It takes years, in different cases, of course, but still quite a long time for weaving and honed rotation to simply become a habit. In addition, weaving and rotation is not all. You still need to be able to sometimes apply skills adequately to mechanics and situations. You need to learn how to correctly burst and finish off. In general, you need to get used to how this game works and how its mechanics work. Yes, of course the skill factor of the player cannot be ruled out. But the problem is that these skills give too much advantage for your dps.
I've been playing this game almost since release. And to be honest, the combat system has not changed in any way in all these 8 years. I learned weaving when it became relevant, but it took me a year or two to master it completely. It took me even longer to learn a generally high apm. Since then, nothing has changed and nothing significant will change in this patch. Look at it for yourself - we still need to weave to be as efficient as possible. We will still need to keep apm high. We'll still need to keep an eye on the timings (although 20 seconds is too extreme for 10 slots lol I agree). In a recent eso live, very big plans were announced. In my wishual thinking, I'm hoping that a more acceptable fight will open up the possibility of a harder overland, perhaps a revision of the content model and yearly stories.
UPD: In short, ESO is a game about combat, about dungeons and raids. ESO will never be able to become a full-fledged sandbox for a casual audience. There are many other great projects for this and it's too late for eso to change anything. But pve content is great and ZoS should attract more players there, because the old population retention models are no longer so good for objective reasons.
I don't know what threads or comments you've been reading, but all the ones I've been reading point out that THIS PATCH MAKES CONTENT HARDER. FOR. EVERYONE.
How does that pull people in? How does that make end gamers the elitists? What???4 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think this video says it all...
It is not that they are trying to shift the game towards a certain goal, it is that they are constantly reversing their direction, taking back the previous changes and turn them around 180 degrees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYHpkE_Z_y8&t=1027s Edited by thorwyn on July 13, 2022 4:02AMAnd if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon8 -
Xinihp✭✭✭✭✭The problem with this thinking is ASSUMING the reason the top 5% do more damage than the 90+% is that certain combinations of abilities are just OP. This assumption is totally false.
By just crushing all AOE in the game with 30%+ nerfs and tons of class skills with up to 40% nerfs or more, you aren't closing the gap. Because the gap was never about the damage these skills did. It was about the skill of those 5% of top players and how they learned to use them.
How is it going to make the game more fun or close some imagined power gap to throw tar on all the gears just because some people are better drivers? Practice practice practice people! And ZOS, why exactly does it matter how much damage the top 5% are doing? How does nerfing everything for everyone change the skill gap of individual players?
Good players damage is lowered, but more casual player damage is lowered by just as much or more.
How does this fix anything?
And if you make the game less fun for EVERYONE in the process, is it not YOU at that point CREATING the problem?
Why exactly do we care so much about what 5% of the player population are doing? Does WoW hit the whole game with 40% nerfs just because 5% of the population are able to do mythic raids?
I don't understand the logic here.
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dmnqwk✭✭✭✭✭My primary concern is that the abilities which make combat interesting are being railed on by reducing the ability to layer damage.
I no longer do high end raiding in MMOs. I spent 7 years retired from doing it after 20 years of being in a few MMOs and producing the goods by coming out of retirement for 1 year playing SWTOR last year, but it's just not where I want to be anymore. I still like seeing decent numbers, but after moving back to ESO (due to 7.0 patch in swtor) after brief stints in beta and 2017 I find that tank damage is very VERY difficult to produce (I am happy my DK tank currently does 25-30k in normal dungeons on bosses) and so with the lack of tank damage in solo content my Warden spends a lot of her time as a stamden.
Damage layers are important for making classes feel different to the others - if everyone just spams a single button then how do classes feel different? Right now, DoTs play an important part in producing the damage numbers but as I've shown in another post the maths of 4 dots in a build will push them to require a mob to be alive for 13 seconds with the planned changes before it's a superior option than simply spamming a single button - a feature that your average mob simply does not respond to because... you know... they're dead before that!
Having gone through somewhere between 10 and 100 major updates to combat on a level like this in various games, I appreciate there is always a lot of doomsaying that occurs - but what gets me is that ESO is very good at making big, sweeping changes then spending far too long leaving them to be wrong. I don't know for whom each class is going to be balanced in terms of damage - are all classes being balanced for damage around the 20k dps mark, the 50k or the 80k? Is sustain balanced between classes, or access to buffs or even does mag and stam get considered because we still have light armor in the game for DD that ESO seem to be forgetting when they're changing things for balance.
Overall I am going to be concerned that layering damage is never going to stop being an issue because the health of mobs is always going to be trivial wherever we go unless we go into veteran DLC dungeons and veteran trials but without an effective system of layering damage (which is not being helped by LA or DoT changes) it'll simply get boring for me and I still have about 35 skill points left to get in the story before starting on the last, boring march for the 40 remaining in alliance rank.0 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭And to simplify combat they nerf almost all classes, completly destroy sorcerer, destroy flurry and jabs, ruin healing, and do no actual buffs to classes that needed them or to compensate for the dps nerf from light attack.
Murder orkensul also.Edited by francesinhalover on July 13, 2022 4:50AMI am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!3 -
Tharonil✭✭✭This update is not good for anyone.
Overland fights and vet dungeons are getting harder for pros and casuals, as dots and light attacks are getting nerfed.
Weaving is still there, so why make this changes anyway?
I really try to understand this update, but stretching out overland wolf fights isn't a great idea.
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SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The changes are not good as they are. Whatever this grand design for the future ZOS has is either lip service or unnecessarily hidden secret.
If big things are coming that would appease the angered masses then they should be shared so we see the changes for what they truly are. Without that, all we see is incompetence, delusion, disassociation and disrespect.
It took me a very very long time to even find out about weaving, let alone learn it. I do t even do trifecta trials. But there is just nothing good about this patch.
I disagree. IIRC, ZOS told us over a year ago-- back when they first mentioned sharding and cold storage-- that they were working on a long-range plan for improving performance in addition to making it possible for further growth of the database. I'm paraphrasing, but IINM that's the gist of what they said. They aren't required to share the details of their long-range plans about that, or anything else, with us.
When AWA were announced, initially there was no mention of it having any connection with their overall long-range plans for the game-- and later, when they did refer to reducing the amount of Achievements data per account that's in the database, there were hostile comments in this forum along the lines of "If I don't see any definite performance improvements after this goes live then I call BS on that PR spin." Again, I'm paraphrasing, but that seemed to be the sentiment that some people were expressing.
So, no-- I don't think that telling us that something they're doing is part of their long-range plan is going to appease anyone. And I think that sharing the details of their long-range plan with us ahead of time would probably just lead to a lot of people overreacting over some particular detail or other which they think should never see the light of day because of reason XYZ.Edited by SeaGtGruff on July 13, 2022 5:59AMI've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
Hawkeye✭✭✭✭francesinhalover wrote: »And to simplify combat they nerf almost all classes, completly destroy sorcerer, destroy flurry and jabs, ruin healing, and do no actual buffs to classes that needed them or to compensate for the dps nerf from light attack.
Murder orkensul also.
Might want to change your signature What is the definition of insanity? Ask ZOS.1
