Necro skelly mage massive stealth nerf?

Urvoth

Maybe this is a bug, but with the same build between live and PTS, the necro's skeletal mage has about 50% of the normal tooltip on PTS. The duration is only extended by 4 seconds, so it really doesn't make sense to reduce the damage by this much, especially considering it was already a niche skill in PvP and only put out average levels of damage in PvE.

LukosCreyden

oh good. So, corpse generation nerf, spirit guardian nerf, mage nerf. On top of our other beautiful, but lacklustre skills, things are looking good for magcro!

Urvoth

Hopefully this will be addressed in this week's pts

Mr_Stach

it wasn't

just an FYI

Necrotech_Master

i felt that the dmg from the skeleton mage was already extremely low, granted some of my builds on live dont fully build into dmg, i only see tooltips on live for 2000-2500 dmg every 2 sec, so it feels like it does nothing anyway

i hated the 2 sec delay between ticks because it felt like it already hit like a wet noodle, if they further nerfed its dmg i wont even consider using it

the only thing i might consider using is the skeleton archer on my necro tank because 20 sec is great when you want high pet uptime for the regen buff

Holycannoli

Urvoth wrote: »

Maybe this is a bug, but with the same build between live and PTS, the necro's skeletal mage has about 50% of the normal tooltip on PTS. The duration is only extended by 4 seconds, so it really doesn't make sense to reduce the damage by this much, especially considering it was already a niche skill in PvP and only put out average levels of damage in PvE.

Most of the combat changes on PTS don't make sense.

LukosCreyden

Indeed. Mage has always been a rather weak skill.
Necro gets carried by self-synergy and flesh atro. Most of its other skills have always been janky or underwhelming.
I still love my necro, but things are going a bit too far now.

Mr_Stach

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Indeed. Mage has always been a rather weak skill.
Necro gets carried by self-synergy and flesh atro. Most of its other skills have always been janky or underwhelming.
I still love my necro, but things are going a bit too far now.

And Necro is just a Better Warden

Rasande_Robin

Mr_Stach wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Indeed. Mage has always been a rather weak skill.
Necro gets carried by self-synergy and flesh atro. Most of its other skills have always been janky or underwhelming.
I still love my necro, but things are going a bit too far now.

And Necro is just a Better Warden

And Warden is just a better Templar.

StarOfElyon

I sure hope not. I only use this skill so that I can feel like an actual necromancer with summons because it always felt weak. But it's great to know that the way I play is getting nerfed again. RIP my bowsorc (in before it was meta). Are we simplifying the game by killing all class skills?

katorga

Mage is useless, you run it for passives and corpse generation.

It got nailed way back with the DOT nerfs. So damage has always been awful and its targeting is garbage. It stands back and to the side of you so using Grave Grasp and its morphs rarely hits and buffs it.

Now it gets hammered by the dot duration increase, rapid rot nerf, past CP star nerfs. Plus it now takes a minimum of 10s to generate a corpse to use for other things.

ZOS basically messed up the entire class design concept of necro with this patch.

Zekka

katorga wrote: »

Mage is useless, you run it for passives and corpse generation.

It got nailed way back with the DOT nerfs. So damage has always been awful and its targeting is garbage. It stands back and to the side of you so using Grave Grasp and its morphs rarely hits and buffs it.

Now it gets hammered by the dot duration increase, rapid rot nerf, past CP star nerfs. Plus it now takes a minimum of 10s to generate a corpse to use for other things.

ZOS basically messed up the entire class design concept of necro with this patch.

Good summary, ZOS could at the very least add major sorcery/brutality to the skill.

katorga

Zekka wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Mage is useless, you run it for passives and corpse generation.

It got nailed way back with the DOT nerfs. So damage has always been awful and its targeting is garbage. It stands back and to the side of you so using Grave Grasp and its morphs rarely hits and buffs it.

Now it gets hammered by the dot duration increase, rapid rot nerf, past CP star nerfs. Plus it now takes a minimum of 10s to generate a corpse to use for other things.

ZOS basically messed up the entire class design concept of necro with this patch.

Good summary, ZOS could at the very least add major sorcery/brutality to the skill.

Jeez that would be nice wouldn't it. I would prefer it got added to one of the pet passives so it would apply to any pet.

Either way, Necro is one nerf away for being a dead pvp class. At least Sorc required an entire suite of nerfs to ruin it. Necro just needs one.

Mazio

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I sure hope not. I only use this skill so that I can feel like an actual necromancer with summons because it always felt weak. But it's great to know that the way I play is getting nerfed again. RIP my bowsorc (in before it was meta). Are we simplifying the game by killing all class skills?

Yes, it seems to be the way things are heading. The devs are mathing all the fun and identity out of all the classes. Soon all our skills will be identical between classes, just animated differently.

YandereGirlfriend

There's probably some convoluted rationale like, "We had to nerf the damage because we increased the splash radius from 4 meters (which was already ridiculously tiny) to 5 meters (which is still tiny) and that would have thrown off our damage per square meter power budget calculations."

As a long-time MagRomancer player... I just can't even with these changes.

We still don't even have a working morph of Blastbones.

Urvoth

Still no mention of this in the patch notes or anywhere else that I've seen. A 4s duration increase on the summon, which is actually already a NERF for the class in terms of corpse generation, certainly does not justify a 50%+ damage reduction in a skill that is already mediocre at best. The empower change to empowering grasp doesn't make up for the damage loss either, and it's rare for empowering grasp to even hit the skelly summon while moving around in the first place.

Melzo

They specifically weakened the necromancer's pets to match the spirit of the dead pets. A necromancer's pet is a dead pet.

The pet deals the same damage as any other damage over time. Damage corresponds to per second. They lengthened all dot damage and weakened the necromancer pet to match them. It's funny, but the passive ability bonuses increase the damage of the dot not the pets...

VixxVexx

I had to know how hard it was truly nerfed. Turns out it is absolutely useless now.

This is with 30k stam/mag, 6k WD/SD, and rapid rot nerf:

• -44% damage per tick
• -30% damage total

That's pretty rough my dudes.

It's not really a "sticky dot" is it? It's not even tagged as a dot but direct damage.

Urvoth

VixxVexx wrote: »

I had to know how hard it was truly nerfed. Turns out it is absolutely useless now.

This is with 30k stam/mag, 6k WD/SD, and rapid rot nerf:

• -44% damage per tick
• -30% damage total

That's pretty rough my dudes.

It's not really a "sticky dot" is it? It's not even tagged as a dot but direct damage.

That’s for a skill that’s already mediocre/niche in PvP and completely unreliable in terms of targeting. It’ll be completely useless/unusable now.

Stx

So sad. They have no consistency when it comes to nerfing / buffing things. Every patch its like roulette for any given skill to be great or trash tier.

kojou

Stx wrote: »

So sad. They have no consistency when it comes to nerfing / buffing things. Every patch its like roulette for any given skill to be great or trash tier.

More like Russian Roulette for each class.

CameraBeardThePirate

They don't even let us command the darn thing like a normal pet, yet it still can't proc sets and is considered a pet in every other way. Now the damage isn't even close to being worth it.

What a joke of a patch.

MashmalloMan

Stx wrote: »

So sad. They have no consistency when it comes to nerfing / buffing things. Every patch its like roulette for any given skill to be great or trash tier.

So confusing because the standards were suppose to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!

@Mr_Stach I need your meme expertise here.

MashmalloMan

@VixxVexx Damn dude, you know how to figure out the coefficents of skills? Nice work. What is the process involved in doing something like that?

I took a pass at making a list of aoe static dot tooltips to compare to each other which shows their formula's don't correctly match despite ZOS stating a standard of 14% dps was given. I didn't know the coefficents though, just how the tooltips scale when given the same character sheet.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/613494/static-dot-standards-not-matching-up#latest

Someone like you should take on the daunting task of making a list for sticky class dots like Mage. I would, but I just don't have the time or drive at this point lol.

I'm willing to bet they also don't correctly follow the standard ZOS claims to use.

A conclusion I came to was that whoever designed the nerfs, did so with the passives in mind making the passives actually negatives to the class kits.. at least for some of the tooltips I was finding. Boneyard was oddly the only skill to meet the 14% dps of a spammable standard with no passives equipped.

What if Mage is nerfed by an additional -10% because of the Rapid Rot passive?

Urvoth

MashmalloMan wrote: »

What if Mage is nerfed by an additional -10% because of the Rapid Rot passive?

It probably was, yet it isn’t a dot and counts as direct damage

VixxVexx

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@VixxVexx Damn dude, you know how to figure out the coefficients of skills? Nice work. What is the process involved in doing something like that?

Oh those are readily available and I've checked with in-game tooltips and it's pretty accurate.
The guy from uesp extracts everything from the game, including scaling coefficients (for stuff like the build editor).
Although I think Skeletal Arcanist might not even scale with Rapid Rot as it is tagged as Direct Damage.

Here's a list with all skills per rank with their modifiers: esolog.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php
Here's Skeletal Arcanist specifically: esolog.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php?abilityid=40118726

You can go back to update 22 (May 17, 2019) for this ability, base game skills as far back as update 9 (March 07, 2016)

Fun to play around with. Dots specifically have had big damage adjustments in update 10 (Gold Coast), 22 (Elsweyr), 23 (Scalebreaker), 24 (Dragonhold), 25 (Harrowstorm), and now 35 (Lost Dps). If this is any indication, get ready for 5 second dots that tick every 333 ms next year.

francesinhalover

LukosCreyden wrote: »

oh good. So, corpse generation nerf, spirit guardian nerf, mage nerf. On top of our other beautiful, but lacklustre skills, things are looking good for magcro!

Wait, magcros dont use the archer?

francesinhalover

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's probably some convoluted rationale like, "We had to nerf the damage because we increased the splash radius from 4 meters (which was already ridiculously tiny) to 5 meters (which is still tiny) and that would have thrown off our damage per square meter power budget calculations."

As a long-time MagRomancer player... I just can't even with these changes.

We still don't even have a working morph of Blastbones.

What do you mean with working morph of blast

MashmalloMan

francesinhalover wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

oh good. So, corpse generation nerf, spirit guardian nerf, mage nerf. On top of our other beautiful, but lacklustre skills, things are looking good for magcro!

Wait, magcros dont use the archer?

They do for DPS context where single target damage is important. I personally prefer the small damage loss for more cleave and I like the look of it.

Some people still consider mag and stam identity as their mag or stam skill choices, even though we kinda mix and match for PVE and PVP now, thus, Mage is a Mag Cro skill.

francesinhalover wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's probably some convoluted rationale like, "We had to nerf the damage because we increased the splash radius from 4 meters (which was already ridiculously tiny) to 5 meters (which is still tiny) and that would have thrown off our damage per square meter power budget calculations."

As a long-time MagRomancer player... I just can't even with these changes.

We still don't even have a working morph of Blastbones.

What do you mean with working morph of blast

The Magicka Blastbones morph, "Stalking Blastbones" doesn't do what it says after they "fixed" it. It's suppose to get more damage the more time it "chases" its target, but because of a fix to make it leap instead of run, it gets no damage benefit. I think the only time it does is if it gets stunned or needs to run around corners in an environment like PVP. It's very rare so most people consider the morph useless after the changes.

Necro mains, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: It does get a minimum 10% damage increase no matter what. Still needs to run to get up to 50% damage, but the 10% applies at all times at least in comparison to the stam morph.

MashmalloMan

VixxVexx wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@VixxVexx Damn dude, you know how to figure out the coefficients of skills? Nice work. What is the process involved in doing something like that?

Oh those are readily available and I've checked with in-game tooltips and it's pretty accurate.
The guy from uesp extracts everything from the game, including scaling coefficients (for stuff like the build editor).
Although I think Skeletal Arcanist might not even scale with Rapid Rot as it is tagged as Direct Damage.

Here's a list with all skills per rank with their modifiers: esolog.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php
Here's Skeletal Arcanist specifically: esolog.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php?abilityid=40118726

You can go back to update 22 (May 17, 2019) for this ability, base game skills as far back as update 9 (March 07, 2016)

Fun to play around with. Dots specifically have had big damage adjustments in update 10 (Gold Coast), 22 (Elsweyr), 23 (Scalebreaker), 24 (Dragonhold), 25 (Harrowstorm), and now 35 (Lost Dps). If this is any indication, get ready for 5 second dots that tick every 333 ms next year.

I understand the coefficients would be available on live and that website, but on the PTS implies you did the math yourself. Was curious if you could do backwards math to figure it out rather than digging in code.

Edit: Just realized, the guy you mentioned already did the PTS coefficients which is where you got it from. Wow. Quick of them.

My mention about Mage was not because it deals dot damage, but because of a theory I came to in my other thread that showed evidence of over nerfing skills like Winter's Revenge or Lightning Splash because of class passives. Mage was increased to 20s which implies it may follow a similar rule to sticky dots, even if it doesn't actually do dot damage.

I think it would be all the more funny on the coding side if Mage was overnerfed because of a 10% dot passive that doesn't even apply.

francesinhalover

MashmalloMan wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

oh good. So, corpse generation nerf, spirit guardian nerf, mage nerf. On top of our other beautiful, but lacklustre skills, things are looking good for magcro!

Wait, magcros dont use the archer?

They do for DPS context where single target damage is important. I personally prefer the small damage loss for more cleave and I like the look of it.

Some people still consider mag and stam identity as their mag or stam skill choices, even though we kinda mix and match for PVE and PVP now, thus, Mage is a Mag Cro skill.

francesinhalover wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There's probably some convoluted rationale like, "We had to nerf the damage because we increased the splash radius from 4 meters (which was already ridiculously tiny) to 5 meters (which is still tiny) and that would have thrown off our damage per square meter power budget calculations."

As a long-time MagRomancer player... I just can't even with these changes.

We still don't even have a working morph of Blastbones.

What do you mean with working morph of blast

The Magicka Blastbones morph, "Stalking Blastbones" doesn't do what it says after they "fixed" it. It's suppose to get more damage the more time it "chases" its target, but because of a fix to make it leap instead of run, it gets no damage benefit. I think the only time it does is if it gets stunned or needs to run around corners in an environment like PVP. It's very rare so most people consider the morph useless after the changes.

Necro mains, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Stam morph also seems useless for pve tbh
My biggest issue with blastbones is that sometimes boss moves slightly(still in front of me) and the skill wont work, i gotta move the crosshair at the boss again.