PTS Update 35 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

FriendlyGuy

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Nocturnals Ploy needs to be completely reworked, as in even a 5 or 10 second cooldown is still completely busted. No one should be able to remove buffs from a player, full stop, and this set is baffling to me because ZOS recently stated they are trying to make buff management easier.

fully agree. This set will either be busted or useless, theres no in between. The only way i could see this work, is to put it on a global cooldown so players cannot lose more then 1 buff every 10s or something like that. Also make it unable to remove potion buffs. However the mechanic of this set is just simply frustrating and not fun. I like unique set designs but this one is absolutely not a good idea.

stargleen

FriendlyGuy wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Nocturnals Ploy needs to be completely reworked, as in even a 5 or 10 second cooldown is still completely busted. No one should be able to remove buffs from a player, full stop, and this set is baffling to me because ZOS recently stated they are trying to make buff management easier.

fully agree. This set will either be busted or useless, theres no in between. The only way i could see this work, is to put it on a global cooldown so players cannot lose more then 1 buff every 10s or something like that. Also make it unable to remove potion buffs. However the mechanic of this set is just simply frustrating and not fun. I like unique set designs but this one is absolutely not a good idea.

fully agree²

Tommy_The_Gun

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Nocturnals Ploy needs to be completely reworked, as in even a 5 or 10 second cooldown is still completely busted. No one should be able to remove buffs from a player, full stop, and this set is baffling to me because ZOS recently stated they are trying to make buff management easier.

Fully agree 3

It does not matter if the cool-down is 1 second, 2 seconds or 1 minute. Cool-down is not on "the target player" - but on the set. So if you are fighting with multiple people using this set - it stacks. So all of your buffs go *poof* & gone. Even essential ones - like speed buff (minor / major expedition). So imagine, for example using Race Against Time, then getting hit by some random & cheap AOE skill that is easy to land (like Razor Caltrops for example) and.... you lose the speed buff. It is game breaking.

1st of all - the removal of buffs should not be assigned to a player. It is kinda similar to Silence on Death Stroke. It was rejected and never went live since silence was applied to the target and had no counter. You could not cast ulti or magicka skill - meaning that you could not even purge it. And if more than one people used it - then it stacked - meaning that multiple players could chain-cast on you & could be Silenced pretty much permanently.

2nd point is that it should not, by any means remove buffs. If something - a better way to balance it out is to suppress the buffs with a duration & pause their timer.

Idea: Make it work similar to negate (a stationary AOE) that suppresses all / some / specific buffs with a duration that you have active and pause their duration.

^ That leaves counter-play, since you can re-cast the buff when inside to re-gain it, or move away from AOE. Also... I know it may sound weird, but the whole buff suppression / removal should be carefully hand -picked. Some buffs are more important than others and some are essential. So no matter what - some buffs should be un-removable.

PureEnvelope35

~Which of the new item sets did you try out, and what did you think of them?

Nocturnal’s Ploy – Medium
2 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
3 – Adds 424 Critical Resistance
4 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

This set has some glaring issues in the PvP environment which makes it extremely difficult to play against in any form of PvP where you may fight multiple people (1vX, XvX, GvG, Smallscale and probably Battlegrounds too.) so just about everyone will be affected by this set in some form.

~Did anything you received feel under or over-powered?

A few parts of the set felt inherently over-powered;

Firstly is the cooldown for the set being a mere 2 seconds makes running it in groups of any size strong, but with a focus on mid-large sized groups being able to easily negate buffs that would be difficult to keep a high uptime on in general (examples such as potion buffs with a base cooldown of 45 seconds, Major/Minor Protection from the newly changed Ironblood, etc.).

Secondly was the potential when used with certain Debuff skills, such as Pierce Armour in theory being able to remove a total of 17844 Armour (Major+Minor Breach granting 8922 and IF it removes Major+Minor Resolve another 8922 Armour gone.), Elemental Drain being easily used from range and applying Minor Magickasteal and Major Breach, it was extremely easy to consistently remove Buffs from a target before they could re-apply them.

Third point is that it also removes secondary buffs such as Minor Protection from Ice Fortress being removed separately from the Resolve which can make keeping an eye on your screen instead of your Buffs (if one is tracking them via the built-in tracker or any from Add-ons) much more difficult as well as making the flow of combat more annoying if both people are using Nocturnal's Ploy because much more time/resources go to buff tracking instead of actually fighting.

Lastly this set is one of the strange sets that will negatively affect everyone by either making the Time To Kill far too fast by removing core debuffs, or increase Time To Kill substantially by having people run unique Mitigation and Resistance buffs to simply counteract the potency of this set.

~Would you include any of the new item sets in any of your current builds?

If it were to go Live in the current state it would sadly almost be a necessity as similarly to the good ol' Crimson Twilight meta the only way to counter it would be to be just as obnoxious with buff removal.

~Do you have any general feedback?

If the 5 piece of this set were to become an actual addition to the gameplay loop (personally buff removal I feel should not be a feature) it would have to have a similar change to a previously egregious set that, thankfully, got reworked namely Soldier of Anguish:

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal damage with a melee attack, you have a 25% chance to traumatize your enemy, negating their next 5500 points of healing for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Which was reworked into:

Soldier of Anguish (Medium)
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Your melee Light Attacks place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying 4830 Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating the next 4830 points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Having Nocturnal's Ploy changed into a much more difficult set to apply to a target, given the proc conditions, a MUCH higher cooldown, maybe per individual player too and perhaps a delayed Area of Effect that will only affect one of the players in a certain radius (such as the old stun that was tied to Deep Fissure) to alleviate the sheer power increase having the equivalent of a reverse Purge on a target.

~TL;DR Set will negatively affect you no matter what style of PvP you enjoy because it is easy to use and collect.

n333rs

Currently Mara's Balm is overperforming and is bugged as it procs upon negative effect reapplication. Please fix it before it breaks the game.

olsborg

Bring a few more sets thats viable for noprocc ravenwatch please. Also why is orders wrath not working in noprocc, or adept rider, neither is bonepirate and steadfast ward.

FrankonPC

I didn't know there was an official feedback thread for sets.

I've tested Mara's balm on multiple different classes- nightblade, necromancer and templar. The set states this:

Mara's Balm

(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

From my tests, a negative effect is removed when a dot or status effect is reapplied, if you purge the effect, or if it ends naturally. It also works on snares and cc breaking with no cooldown. This leads to a situation where you can have a very large amount of procs from this set happening, before you even get to the 15 second purge/heal combination. This leads to a very large amount of healing, even in a 1 v 1 situation.

I do not have the combat metrics from my first duels, but even back barring this set lead to this 5 pc being the most healing on my bar by a decent margin, and it's even better double barred.

This last weekend I went into the sewers with a few friends and had them hit me while i stood there, rotated HOTS and didn't do anything else to defend myself. I never had to use an ultimate or a burst heal either.

The combat metrics are below:

This was a 2 v 1 where mara's was 2-3x better than other heals on my bar.




This is a 3 v 1 where maras is 3+x better than any other heals on my bar



because of the lack of a cooldown, the more people you add in an outnumbered fight, the more heals per second you get. I've seen as low as 800 HPS for one person attacking you and as high as 1500 for one person, so it's reasonable to say that each person will give you ~ 1k hps, so in a 1 v 5 it's 5k from this set, etc. Also notice in the second screenshot that over 204.6 seconds i had 624 procs. Even a 1 second gcd on the set activating would have reduced this set's power by over 60 % and it would still be the best heal on my bar.

The set in its current form is extremely overtuned relative to any other sets in the game that provide similar sources of self healing. I'm all for a new set that is competitive and strong, but just from these tests a 1 second cooldown would make it the best healing set in the game by a decent margin that also doubles down as a burst heal every 15 seconds AND purges all negative effects. I'd say a 1 second global cooldown as well as a reduction in healing power(from the 2100 to 1800 ish or less) would still make it viable and still possibly overtuned. It would be closer in line though.

As a solo and small scale player, I plan on running this set on every class in the game. That's how good it is.

Also, here's a video of the tests I did with my commentary if you want to confirm the cmx with video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW2rAvPffXs&t=134s

IAmIcehouse

FrankonPC wrote: »

I didn't know there was an official feedback thread for sets.

I've tested Mara's balm on multiple different classes- nightblade, necromancer and templar. The set states this:

Mara's Balm

(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

From my tests, a negative effect is removed when a dot or status effect is reapplied, if you purge the effect, or if it ends naturally. It also works on snares and cc breaking with no cooldown. This leads to a situation where you can have a very large amount of procs from this set happening, before you even get to the 15 second purge/heal combination. This leads to a very large amount of healing, even in a 1 v 1 situation.

I do not have the combat metrics from my first duels, but even back barring this set lead to this 5 pc being the most healing on my bar by a decent margin, and it's even better double barred.

This last weekend I went into the sewers with a few friends and had them hit me while i stood there, rotated HOTS and didn't do anything else to defend myself. I never had to use an ultimate or a burst heal either.

The combat metrics are below:

This was a 2 v 1 where mara's was 2-3x better than other heals on my bar.




This is a 3 v 1 where maras is 3+x better than any other heals on my bar



because of the lack of a cooldown, the more people you add in an outnumbered fight, the more heals per second you get. I've seen as low as 800 HPS for one person attacking you and as high as 1500 for one person, so it's reasonable to say that each person will give you ~ 1k hps, so in a 1 v 5 it's 5k from this set, etc. Also notice in the second screenshot that over 204.6 seconds i had 624 procs. Even a 1 second gcd on the set activating would have reduced this set's power by over 60 % and it would still be the best heal on my bar.

The set in its current form is extremely overtuned relative to any other sets in the game that provide similar sources of self healing. I'm all for a new set that is competitive and strong, but just from these tests a 1 second cooldown would make it the best healing set in the game by a decent margin that also doubles down as a burst heal every 15 seconds AND purges all negative effects. I'd say a 1 second global cooldown as well as a reduction in healing power(from the 2100 to 1800 ish or less) would still make it viable and still possibly overtuned. It would be closer in line though.

As a solo and small scale player, I plan on running this set on every class in the game. That's how good it is.

Also, here's a video of the tests I did with my commentary if you want to confirm the cmx with video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW2rAvPffXs&t=134s

If this goes live as is, it's going to have the plaguebreak effect but far worse. When plaguebreak launched, it destroyed certain sets (i.e curse eater) and skills (renewing undeath, netch, purge, etc). If this goes live, skills like Necro Scythe (100% bleed chance), Jabs (100% slow proc), Mag Shalks (100% proc on major/minor breach), and so many more, are just not an option anymore. We will have to build entirely around this sets existence and it's extremely limiting.

As with crimson, the more people hitting you, the higher % healing the set provides, and I don't really think is necessarily bad. But the raw value is so overtuned that you'd have to cut the heal by 75% for it not to be BIS on every smallscale build.

CleymenZero

General accessibility is not even garanteed and accessibility for higher end groups I'd reduced.

My PB prog is in peril not only because of the dps nerfs and the disproportionate reduction in health but also because heals were significantly nerfed but damage intake stays the same which puts the group in peril in all fights.