PTS Update 35 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the new item sets in Update 35. Please try out the new item sets and let us know what you think! Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Which of the new item sets did you try out, and what did you think of them?
• Did anything you received feel under or over-powered?
• Would you include any of the new item sets in any of your current builds?
• Do you have any general feedback?

Stamicka

I posted in the bug report thread on accident. So I'll post my feedback here. Someone else mentioned it, but Nocturnal's Ploy is a bad Idea.

• Nocturnal’s Ploy – Medium
• 5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

Consider a debuff skill like Elemental Drain. It is free and ranged, so you can apply this to an enemy over and over. Would this just take off the enemy's buffs free of cost? If minor magickasteal counts as a minor debuff to the target, this set would be even more broken if paired with Elemental Drain. Will debuffs from status effects count towards this set? Has this set been tested for permanent buffs like the ones granted from a set like Mighty Chudan? Can it take off those types of buffs? There is no reason to have something like this in the game, there are way too many ways that this can be broken and it will be heavily RNG based.

React

I also posted my comment in the bug report thread by mistake. Reposting here.

Nocturnal's Ploy - Medium

5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

Nocturnal's Ploy is a new rewards for the worthy set being introduced. This set is extremely problematic in PVP and should not be allowed to enter the game.

There is no counterplay to having your buffs removed at will by enemy players, especially certain buffs like those received from potions, which can only be re-obtained once every 40 seconds. This set has two separate cooldowns of only two seconds each on the ability to remove major and minor buffs - imagine trying to maintain your buffs when someone can spam a utility ability on you, such as elemental susceptibility, and remove them every two seconds.

This set completely removes the rewards players get for good buff management, and completely breaks the usage of things like spell power pots and tri pots in PVP.

I highly recommend this set is scrapped and replaced, or removed entirely. This is not something that belongs in any version of ESO's PVP, and if allowed to enter the game it is going to severely deteriorate the PVP experience.

jaws343

Stamicka wrote: »

I posted in the bug report thread on accident. So I'll post my feedback here. Someone else mentioned it, but Nocturnal's Ploy is a bad Idea.

• Nocturnal’s Ploy – Medium
• 5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

Consider a debuff skill like Elemental Drain. It is free and ranged, so you can apply this to an enemy over and over. Would this just take off the enemy's buffs free of cost? If minor magickasteal counts as a minor debuff to the target, this set would be even more broken if paired with Elemental Drain. Will debuffs from status effects count towards this set? Has this set been tested for permanent buffs like the ones granted from a set like Mighty Chudan? Can it take off those types of buffs? There is no reason to have something like this in the game, there are way too many ways that this can be broken and it will be heavily RNG based.

The set says it only removes buffs with durations. So those that are permanently applied to the character, like from Chudan or from Oakensoul, would remain on.

xDeusEJRx

Nocturnal's ploy needs to either be re-visited or just not be a thing. It will basically make PVP non-existent outside of zerg gameplay. If you fight a zerg and even 3 people run this they will remove your entire buff bar that isn't permanent. This set is a terrible idea

Stamicka

jaws343 wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

I posted in the bug report thread on accident. So I'll post my feedback here. Someone else mentioned it, but Nocturnal's Ploy is a bad Idea.

• Nocturnal’s Ploy – Medium
• 5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

Consider a debuff skill like Elemental Drain. It is free and ranged, so you can apply this to an enemy over and over. Would this just take off the enemy's buffs free of cost? If minor magickasteal counts as a minor debuff to the target, this set would be even more broken if paired with Elemental Drain. Will debuffs from status effects count towards this set? Has this set been tested for permanent buffs like the ones granted from a set like Mighty Chudan? Can it take off those types of buffs? There is no reason to have something like this in the game, there are way too many ways that this can be broken and it will be heavily RNG based.

The set says it only removes buffs with durations. So those that are permanently applied to the character, like from Chudan or from Oakensoul, would remain on.

I saw the wording, but you never know with ZOS. I'm not sure how those types of sets work on the backend. Someone should definitely test and make sure.

WreckfulAbandon

Nocturnals Ploy needs to be completely reworked, as in even a 5 or 10 second cooldown is still completely busted. No one should be able to remove buffs from a player, full stop, and this set is baffling to me because ZOS recently stated they are trying to make buff management easier.

Aliyavana

General feedback: The new motif from this dungeon, Y’ffres Will (used by the Deeproot Zeal, Rage of Ursauk, and Stone's Accord item sets), should be used for all Druids that already exist in the previous content, High Isle.

Currently, Druids use a mix of Black Fin Legion, Reachmen, Ashlander, and Glenmoril Wyrd style as this new style did not exist yet. Druids are their own Breton sub-culture and should be using their new motif.

P.S. please also use unique color schemes for the different circles for their motifs, to help differentiate them.

Edit: To assist the devs, the Stonelore Circle druids can be found here: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Stonelore_Circle
Most of what are Eldertide Circle Druids can be found listed here: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Online:Eldertide_Circle&limit=500

Ratzkifal

I like the changes to Oakensoul, but please give it back Major Heroism.
The changes to Minor Force, Minor Courage, Minor Berserk, Minor Protection are very much justified but without "oompf" this set lacks appeal and adding Minor Mending cannot make up for that. Major Heroism is a fun buff to have and with all the other reductions still being present it will be a lot less harmful to keep Major Heroism around.
This is an opportunity to make a precision change and see how the set fairs after the nerfs with Major Heroism, rather than taking the sledgehammer approach again and overnerfing it. If it's still too strong, you can still nerf it more later in a hotfix.

WreckfulAbandon

Sandman929

I don't understand how a set like Nocturnals Ploy is created as part of a patch where we're supposed to be liberated from staring at timers. This set just removes some random buff that console players will have to identify by staring at their buff pictures and figuring out which one is missing prematurely. I'm sure PC will have an add on telling them what got removed, but on Xbox I'm not overly excited about playing this little mini-game to see what needs to be reapplied.
And really, why bother reapplying since a buff can just be removed again for free with Ele Drain?
This is a ridiculous troll set on par with Curse Eater (ever since purging became a death sentence).
Clearly very little thought was given to this, which is becoming the norm in ESO.

Also, any dev tempted to write "grants you a stack" again should receive an immediate pay cut...stop leaning on this mechanic so heavily.

WreckfulAbandon

The only way I can accept Nocturnals Ploy would be if the 2, 3, and 4 piece bonuses had debuffs or simply no stats and the cooldown was increased to 10+ seconds. This set needs to make the wearer useless for any task other than Xv1 debuffing and getting carried by their group. That way the wearers enjoyment is brought to around the same level as those trying to actually PvP out there getting hopelessly debuffed into irrelevancy.

Personally I prefer a complete rework. Dont underestimate the amount of people who will stop PvPing altogether if essential PvP buffs are allowed to be constantly removed by other players.

CameraBeardThePirate

Do not underestimate just how much Nocturnal's Ploy will be abused ZOS. Even if it had a 10 sec cooldown, the set would be extremely powerful. It would be better if the condition was something like "When you debuff an enemy with an ultimate ability..." and even then it would be a strong set.

As it is in this iteration, someone can sit out of range of people and spam Elemental Drain to slowly strip them of all of their buffs. For builds that rely on potions, you can't even rebuff if they get stripped. This set is fundamentally broken.

YandereGirlfriend

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't understand how a set like Nocturnals Ploy is created as part of a patch where we're supposed to be liberated from staring at timers. This set just removes some random buff that console players will have to identify by staring at their buff pictures and figuring out which one is missing prematurely. I'm sure PC will have an add on telling them what got removed, but on Xbox I'm not overly excited about playing this little mini-game to see what needs to be reapplied.
And really, why bother reapplying since a buff can just be removed again for free with Ele Drain?
This is a ridiculous troll set on par with Curse Eater (ever since purging became a death sentence).
Clearly very little thought was given to this, which is becoming the norm in ESO.

Also, any dev tempted to write "grants you a stack" again should receive an immediate pay cut...stop leaning on this mechanic so heavily.

Just wanting to defend the honor of Curse-Eater.

There's nothing wrong with the set - what is wrong is Plaguebreak. Treat the actual disease not the symptom.

Sandman929

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't understand how a set like Nocturnals Ploy is created as part of a patch where we're supposed to be liberated from staring at timers. This set just removes some random buff that console players will have to identify by staring at their buff pictures and figuring out which one is missing prematurely. I'm sure PC will have an add on telling them what got removed, but on Xbox I'm not overly excited about playing this little mini-game to see what needs to be reapplied.
And really, why bother reapplying since a buff can just be removed again for free with Ele Drain?
This is a ridiculous troll set on par with Curse Eater (ever since purging became a death sentence).
Clearly very little thought was given to this, which is becoming the norm in ESO.

Also, any dev tempted to write "grants you a stack" again should receive an immediate pay cut...stop leaning on this mechanic so heavily.

Just wanting to defend the honor of Curse-Eater.

There's nothing wrong with the set - what is wrong is Plaguebreak. Treat the actual disease not the symptom.

Fair enough, it's 100% a Plaguebreak problem, which is 100% a ZOS -doesn't-think-things-through problem

Mr_Stach

As long as my Netch randomly explodes me, I dislike Plaguebreak

TheGeordieKitten

Not a new set but related to a reworked ability; Maelstrom Dual Wield, aka Cruel Flurry, doesn't work with this patch. The buff isn't given on any of the hits of Flurry and no damage over time abilities are buffed afterwards.

umagon

Pangirt Denmother needs to have a better visual effect, the visual effect does not extend to 12 meters. I think it needs a visual effect ring like Spaulder of Ruin but only lasting 5 secs on the person who it activated on. That way group members know the tank is using it and can position themselves to get the effect next time it activates.

virtus753

TheGeordieKitten wrote: »

Not a new set but related to a reworked ability; Maelstrom Dual Wield, aka Cruel Flurry, doesn't work with this patch. The buff isn't given on any of the hits of Flurry and no damage over time abilities are buffed afterwards.

Flurry itself is not a DoT (despite being bugged and getting buffed by Thaumaturge - see 6.3.4 for a fix that was obviously reverted at some point). Cruel Flurry won’t buff it. The rest is a bug.

VixxVexx

5 – When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.


Please for the love of god, put a cooldown on the first part of Mara’s Balm. This is just the new Undertaker. You can proc the healing part multiple times per second. Have you learned nothing from Savage Werewolf and Undertaker? Sets without a cooldown are absolutely broken.

Don't even get me started on Nocturnal’s Ploy, there's already a big thread out there.

JustAGoodPlayer

Mara’s Balm – Heavy
2 – Adds 1487 Armor
3 – Adds 424 Critical Resistance
4 – Adds 4% Healing Taken
5 – When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 2111 Health. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, cleanse all negative effects. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

I play in status effect HA build now.So i put a big number of status effect on target and get penetration from CP to make build work. Such set just do not let to use such tactick - because it removes effects and heal opponent more than my debuffs do damage.

CP star was the same nerfed.
---

As a debuffer I am not happy with plague breaker changes. It makes impossible to reaply effect and player can just purge it.

---

The same time as debuffer - charged trait is nerfed, so it is harder to land debuffs.

Tyrvarion

Nocturnal's Ploy set does not seem like a healthy addition to the game if it was to be released in that form.

It would be great if Yffre's Will motif was retroactively added to the the Druid NPCs present in the High Isle

ESO_Nightingale

Can we get a new frost dps monster helmet or mythic in the next coming patches please?

YandereGirlfriend

1. Frost DPS absolutely needs a new monster helm - so does BLEED while we're at it (there are ZERO currently!).

2. Now that Heavy/Light Attacks ignore scaling, can we please get the elemental-boosting sets: Ysgramor's Birthright (Frost Damage), Silks of the Sun (Flame Damage), Strength of the Automaton (Physical and Bleed Damage), and Netch's Touch (Shock Damage) increased to +600 of their respective damage. Currently, these sets are all +400 because they buff Heavy/Light Attacks so the upcoming patch removes the rationale to not have them at their proper value of +600.

DrNukenstein

I love the idea of crit resist as a stat line in pvp sets. It cements these sets as being for PVPers, and I wouldn't be opposed to other pvp sets getting revised with one line of crit resist.

Nocturnals Ploy has too easy of a condition for it's proc though, and it will be unhealthy for the game as it is now.

Buff maintenance is a major mechanic in the pvp of this game, and the buffs you slot are part of your build. As it is now Nocturnals Ploy unfairly punishes players who get their buffs from skills, and essentially denies certain buffs for builds that need to get them from potions.

Tying the effect to an immunity to the proc from any player for around 15 seconds while having it strip multiple effects and protecting potion effects would make it just right. The ability to force an early rebuff in a fight could be a very interesting tool to add, but introducing a set that can completely shut down buffs will be bad for game.

This set as is gives me nightmares of a one-bar ring build with it taking my lunch money over and over again and saying "can't have that!"

ebix_

how to make alliances have peace together .
Nocturnals Ploy
people are so busy rebuffing that they wont have time to do anything else .

Mr_Stach

Here's a quick list of all the sets that Nocturnal's Ploy just makes useless with zero effort:

Light
False God's Devotion
Gossamer
Grave Inevitability
Hanu's Compassion
Healing Mage
Hollowfang Thirst
Indomitable Fury
Infallible Mage
Inventor's Guard
Spell Power Cure
Skooma Smuggler
Stone's Accord
Twilight Remedy
Vestment of Olorime
Wisdom of Vanus

Medium
Coward's Gear
Crusader
Grisly Gourmet
Gryphon's Ferocity
Heem-Jas' Retribution
Kinras's Wrath
Quick Serpent
Tooth of Lokkestiiz
Tzogvin's Warband
Vicious Serpent

Heavy
Bani's Torment
Claw of Yolnahkriin
Drake's Rush
Dreugh King Slayer
Grace of Gloom
Hagraven's Garden
Immortal Warrior
Jailer's Tenacity
Mighty Glacier
Pangrit Denmother
Saxhleel Champion
Steadfast Hero

Monster
Magma Incarnate
Pirate Skeleton
Scourge Harvester

Crafted
Daring Corsair
Naga Shaman
Spectre's Eye
Unchained Aggressor

Mythic
Sea-Serpent's Coil

If you think this is ok to just release into the game as is, you're actually insane. Also this doesn't even take into account the skills that people will just waste in combat.

Being able to Strip buffs will be more Powerful than Oakensoul, especially because you could wear Oakensoul and Wear this and be perfectly safe as you can't have permanent buffs stripped.

WrathOfInnos

I have mixed feelings about Grave Inevitability. First, I'm very glad to see an effort to make a few good front bar light armor damage sets recently. Whorl of Depths was the first one since the days of Siroria and Burning Spellweave, and a lot of magicka builds are tired of having to slot medium or heavy sets on weapons/jewelry (AY, Tzogvin, Kinra, Pillr of Nirn, etc.).

The issue is that the buff chosen, Major Force, is often redundant in group content. Most tanks and healers use Aggressive Warhorn because there are few support alternatives (Necros can maybe colossus). This means that if you have 100% uptime from the set, maybe half of that has an effect because you would have had 50% Major Force from Warhorn and/or Saxhleel. So really it's giving closer to 50% of 20% crit damage, or 10% average, which is simply not a good 5pc bonus (consider that Order's Wrath is 8% crit damage and 8% crit chance).

The similar set, Kinra's, does not have this issue because Major Berserk is a difficult buff to obtain even in groups. And I assume both sets are intended for group content because they provide a Minor buff to nearby DPS.

I'm not sure of the best way to fix Grave Inevitability. Making it a unique 20% crit damage would not be a good answer because it would out us over the 125% cap. Making it another Major buff would also not help because nearly every one is provided easily in an organized group.

The only one we could maybe use is Major Heroism, but that tends to be situational based on burst timing and boss phases/movement. Still it could be useful, especially if allies received Minor Heroism. I know these ult gen buffs are strong in PvP, but this would be a tough set to use in PvP. Landing 5 light attacks takes a while to build up, and you lose the buff if the opponent does any type of CC + dodge combo. It's the same reason Kinras is not used in BG's and Cyrodiil.

Could it be time for a new named Major/Minor buff? What stat would it increase?

Or is the set worth it just so allies don't need to cast Barbed Trap or Accelerate? That does make it a nice Tzogvin alternative for Magicka builds if at least 2 DPS wear it to buff each other.

Artim_X

Thank you for the Rage of the Ursauk set. Although it doesn't completely negate the sting of my casual PvE heavy attack setup being nerfed, it at least helps me get back some of my lost power. Although the irony of needing to farm something new to get back what I already had isn't lost on me...

Aliyavana

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't understand how a set like Nocturnals Ploy is created as part of a patch where we're supposed to be liberated from staring at timers. This set just removes some random buff that console players will have to identify by staring at their buff pictures and figuring out which one is missing prematurely. I'm sure PC will have an add on telling them what got removed, but on Xbox I'm not overly excited about playing this little mini-game to see what needs to be reapplied.
And really, why bother reapplying since a buff can just be removed again for free with Ele Drain?
This is a ridiculous troll set on par with Curse Eater (ever since purging became a death sentence).
Clearly very little thought was given to this, which is becoming the norm in ESO.

Also, any dev tempted to write "grants you a stack" again should receive an immediate pay cut...stop leaning on this mechanic so heavily.

Nocturnal’s ploy is def gonna be abused

Tannus15

Phylactery’s Grasp is a great fun set

I really like how it has a weak dot and provides a decent amount of stam. If you're looking at doing a max mag with stam spammable build this set can really shine.