I support something being done about the ever-increasing ceiling of DPS. I'm a console player and I find the combination of light attack weaving and animation cancelling to be really hard to sustain. Whether it's fatigue, ping issues, and other input bugs, I just don't find value in having such an unnatural system be the norm. Conversely, I see where people value it and how changing it has to be done delicately.
My biggest concern is that nerfing damage of anything will impact the wrong group - the casuals - who are supposed to benefit the most from this. If anything I'd have expected something like an accessibility option of auto-attack or something.
As a console player, I can't provide anything other than my own qualitative feedback since PTS isn't a thing for us.
I don't know if I have a problem with the idea of DPS increasing. I guess I don't see what the problem with it is.
The problem is designing content around high dps that many of the players can't reach. It does exclude people from content. It's fine if there's difficult content, but let that difficulty rest in the mechanics not a twitchy combat system that most players aren't full participating in.
I personally don't have to do veteran content, even has CP1400, but I can see where others might feel differently.
adamsmith42 wrote: »In response to your final thought; based on the notes that I have just got done reading from the PTS section of the forum - if these changes go live, I most likely will not be able to have another vMA 'Perfect Run', and your chances of clearing vMA for the first time will be drastically lowered; players like us (I am NOT top-tier; my parse is only like 77k...) are going to be SIGNIFCANTLY handicapped by the changes.. and the combat will become far less engaging, if not downright boring: buff, buff; 15x spammable, buff, buff, 15x spammable....
I have been thinking about the general idea of adjusting how the combat works in ESO and I finally have assembled my thoughts.
My Background
I got introduced to the Elder Scrolls in 2002 with the release of Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, and quickly got lost in the world of Tamriel. I have been playing Elder Scrolls games almost exclusively since before Skyrim came out (about 15 years). I have tried a few different games in that time, but none have sucked me in as much as the Elder Scrolls games.
I started playing ESO in August of 2016 and have very much enjoyed the game during that time. If I have the right build, I can just barely solo Fungal Grotto, but I cannot yet finish Vetran Maelstrom Arena. That means that with more than a 1,000 hours onto just one character (and I have 6) I have not managed to break through into the upper echelon of ESO.
My Thoughts
I don't know what I think about the up and coming changes. I have not read the patch notes, and have not tried the PTS server yet, but I can see the need for a change. I am opening to how these changes are, but if someone who has literally put thousands of hours into this game and has played it almost exclusively over 6 years cannot break into the upper echelon of content, then there is definitely a need. I look forward to seeing how this change works.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
I have been thinking about the general idea of adjusting how the combat works in ESO and I finally have assembled my thoughts.
My Background
I got introduced to the Elder Scrolls in 2002 with the release of Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, and quickly got lost in the world of Tamriel. I have been playing Elder Scrolls games almost exclusively since before Skyrim came out (about 15 years). I have tried a few different games in that time, but none have sucked me in as much as the Elder Scrolls games.
I started playing ESO in August of 2016 and have very much enjoyed the game during that time. If I have the right build, I can just barely solo Fungal Grotto, but I cannot yet finish Vetran Maelstrom Arena. That means that with more than a 1,000 hours onto just one character (and I have 6) I have not managed to break through into the upper echelon of ESO.
My Thoughts
I don't know what I think about the up and coming changes. I have not read the patch notes, and have not tried the PTS server yet, but I can see the need for a change. I am opening to how these changes are, but if someone who has literally put thousands of hours into this game and has played it almost exclusively over 6 years cannot break into the upper echelon of content, then there is definitely a need. I look forward to seeing how this change works.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
My Thoughts
I don't know what I think about the up and coming changes. I have not read the patch notes, and have not tried the PTS server yet, but I can see the need for a change. I am opening to how these changes are, but if someone who has literally put thousands of hours into this game and has played it almost exclusively over 6 years cannot break into the upper echelon of content, then there is definitely a need. I look forward to seeing how this change works.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
You're wrong. Everything is gonna get harder, because you're doing less damage, and the enemies health isn't getting decreased.
Even worse, Maelstrom arena is a very mobile environment, so your 20 second, weaker ground DOTs are going to be completly useless.
I noticed that.
I also noticed how many of those same skills ended up having a damage boost and coming from a place where I rarely keep up all of my dots as is, to be given those same dots (even with them ticking half as much) for twice as long, will make me a lot more prone to keep up my dots and thus get more benefit from them. ... in theory at least. For all I know right now, you could be 100% right. I will find out ... likely this weekend. I don't see myself having time to do that test until then.
I don't think that damage is my problem.
One problem I know I have is managing my resources. And while this patch (to my knowledge) does nothing for that, I suspect the changes to the timers will alleviate enough stress in my mind that it will be easier to start focusing on things like weaving which I have never really mastered.
I could be wrong, but that is just my thoughts.
Maybe you’re just…. bad at the game? Like seriously vMA can be done at like 300cp. Learn to LA weave? My first clear was like 250cp lol
Holycannoli wrote: »I noticed that.
I also noticed how many of those same skills ended up having a damage boost and coming from a place where I rarely keep up all of my dots as is, to be given those same dots (even with them ticking half as much) for twice as long, will make me a lot more prone to keep up my dots and thus get more benefit from them. ... in theory at least. For all I know right now, you could be 100% right. I will find out ... likely this weekend. I don't see myself having time to do that test until then.
They last twice as long and do an average of 33% less damage than before. Some of them do 40% less damage.
So less damage that takes twice as long to do, and in the meantime much more easily purged in PvP.
This is a bigger nerf to DoTs than some people are realizing. A good DoT will do a lot of damage in a short amount of time, a bad one less damage in a longer amount of time. The longer a DoT lasts the worse it is unless it has a secondary benefit like healing you with each tick. You don't want a DoT to last 20 seconds if all it does is damage, and you certainly don't want it to last 20 seconds when it used to last 10 seconds and did more damage for it's duration.
10k damage over 10 seconds or 6k damage over 20 seconds. Which do you prefer?
Thecompton73 wrote: »Sorry to tell you OP but none of the changes in the PTS patch notes provide any hope of the content being more accessible for you. Especially trying to finish VMA, the final stage of the last boss fight is a pretty big DPS race where you need to be moving a lot to avoid different damage sources. Having the DPS of DOTS nerfed so heavily is going to make that part of the fight way tougher to get through.
When I wrote this, the PTS notes had not come out yet.
I read through the patch notes, and while I did see a number of nerfs, I also saw quite a few buffs. I am not enough of a numbers nerd to know off hand how it will play out, but I know I love the idea of longer timers and I think that alone will help me out a lot. I really don't know though, and won't until I try playing it.
One of the things I will likely do is try vMA on PTS and see how it feels. I would be very surprised if I passed it because even if the changes are beneficial, then I don't think I am anywhere near that level of being ready.
There is no question about it, I suck terribly. I am a lot better than I was. When I first started playing ESO, I had such a terrible build and knew so little about how the game worked, that I could not kill one of the story bosses in Coldharbour. I have gotten a lot better since then. I can solo most any base game word bosses. I can solo some normal dungeons.
From what I understand from the note they released before hand (and that is what spawned my thoughts) this patch was supposed to reduce the DPS of the many dots but increase the increase the overall damage. If that is not what happened (and I couldn't say) then that may very well change things. However, assuming the stated goal is true, then it is possible that after they get some testing that we may see an adjustment to how things work, making it more in line with what they are shooting for.
Since they will now take longer to deal this damage, this will result in an approximate 33% overall DPS decrease for DoTs, while making them more worthwhile in long term fights and easier to keep up.
Twin Slashes:
This ability and its morphs now last for 20 seconds, up from 10.
Decreased the damage per tick by 25%.
Two Handed
Cleave
Carve: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph's damage over time by approximately 40%.
Critical Charge
Stampede (morph):
This morph now ticks every 2 seconds over 20 seconds rather than every second over 15 seconds.
Decreased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.
I don't think that damage is my problem.
One problem I know I have is managing my resources. And while this patch (to my knowledge) does nothing for that, I suspect the changes to the timers will alleviate enough stress in my mind that it will be easier to start focusing on things like weaving which I have never really mastered.
I could be wrong, but that is just my thoughts.
You are on the right track. I mentioned I was doing 32k when I went through it, which is far lower than dps today. A fourth of what is possible.
But at the time I was second highest dps in our trials group.
It didn’t help me much.
I ultimately made a new toon specifically for vMA. At the time the simplest, beefiest toon was a magsorc. Comppletely streamlined rotation, double barred shield, defensive/dot powerhouse. Made the toon for it though I detested the aesthetics, because it stood a better chance than what I had to get the space to learn the mechanics.
Over many, many deaths I made continuous improvements. Golded every bit of gear. Tried every monster helm set combo, burned through thousands of expensive pots, and on and on.
Lots of that was helpful, but in the end it was learning exactly where to stand. Dropping dots where things were about to spawn, because I just knew where that was, keeping shield up without fail, and not taking even the smallest mechanic for granted.
In my opinion this next stretch before pts goes live might wind up being your best window you’ll get for a while. Oakensoul while it is still very strong, build to stay alive first, damage second, and keep at it.
VvwvenomwvV wrote: »I made a post about a week ago called APM AND SERVER PERFORMANCE. In it, I mentioned that I believe it has to do with helping the server. Look at the patch notes, and you'll see a pattern that is less button mashing, and things will now tick every 2 seconds instead of every 1 second.
People can go on forever talking about the gap between the upper, and lower skilled players, but that is not the true focus of the changes.
There is no question about it, I suck terribly. I am a lot better than I was. When I first started playing ESO, I had such a terrible build and knew so little about how the game worked, that I could not kill one of the story bosses in Coldharbour. I have gotten a lot better since then. I can solo most any base game word bosses. I can solo some normal dungeons.
We’ve all been there, and I smile at your humility and willingness to take ownership etc. Fwiw you are precisely the sort of player I most like to prog raid with, and who ultimately benefits most from vMA. Wish you the very best of success.
Maybe you’re just…. bad at the game? Like seriously vMA can be done at like 300cp. Learn to LA weave? My first clear was like 250cp lol
There is no question about it, I suck terribly. I am a lot better than I was. When I first started playing ESO, I had such a terrible build and knew so little about how the game worked, that I could not kill one of the story bosses in Coldharbour. I have gotten a lot better since then. I can solo most any base game word bosses. I can solo some normal dungeons.Holycannoli wrote: »I noticed that.
I also noticed how many of those same skills ended up having a damage boost and coming from a place where I rarely keep up all of my dots as is, to be given those same dots (even with them ticking half as much) for twice as long, will make me a lot more prone to keep up my dots and thus get more benefit from them. ... in theory at least. For all I know right now, you could be 100% right. I will find out ... likely this weekend. I don't see myself having time to do that test until then.
They last twice as long and do an average of 33% less damage than before. Some of them do 40% less damage.
So less damage that takes twice as long to do, and in the meantime much more easily purged in PvP.
This is a bigger nerf to DoTs than some people are realizing. A good DoT will do a lot of damage in a short amount of time, a bad one less damage in a longer amount of time. The longer a DoT lasts the worse it is unless it has a secondary benefit like healing you with each tick. You don't want a DoT to last 20 seconds if all it does is damage, and you certainly don't want it to last 20 seconds when it used to last 10 seconds and did more damage for it's duration.
10k damage over 10 seconds or 6k damage over 20 seconds. Which do you prefer?
From what I understand from the note they released before hand (and that is what spawned my thoughts) this patch was supposed to reduce the DPS of the many dots but increase the increase the overall damage. If that is not what happened (and I couldn't say) then that may very well change things. However, assuming the stated goal is true, then it is possible that after they get some testing that we may see an adjustment to how things work, making it more in line with what they are shooting for.
I have been thinking about the general idea of adjusting how the combat works in ESO and I finally have assembled my thoughts.
My Background
I got introduced to the Elder Scrolls in 2002 with the release of Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, and quickly got lost in the world of Tamriel. I have been playing Elder Scrolls games almost exclusively since before Skyrim came out (about 15 years). I have tried a few different games in that time, but none have sucked me in as much as the Elder Scrolls games.
I started playing ESO in August of 2016 and have very much enjoyed the game during that time. If I have the right build, I can just barely solo Fungal Grotto, but I cannot yet finish Vetran Maelstrom Arena. That means that with more than a 1,000 hours onto just one character (and I have 6) I have not managed to break through into the upper echelon of ESO.
My Thoughts
I don't know what I think about the up and coming changes. I have not read the patch notes, and have not tried the PTS server yet, but I can see the need for a change. I am opening to how these changes are, but if someone who has literally put thousands of hours into this game and has played it almost exclusively over 6 years cannot break into the upper echelon of content, then there is definitely a need. I look forward to seeing how this change works.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
From what I understand from the note they released before hand (and that is what spawned my thoughts) this patch was supposed to reduce the DPS of the many dots but increase the increase the overall damage.
LordDragonMara wrote: »I have been thinking about the general idea of adjusting how the combat works in ESO and I finally have assembled my thoughts.
My Background
I got introduced to the Elder Scrolls in 2002 with the release of Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, and quickly got lost in the world of Tamriel. I have been playing Elder Scrolls games almost exclusively since before Skyrim came out (about 15 years). I have tried a few different games in that time, but none have sucked me in as much as the Elder Scrolls games.
I started playing ESO in August of 2016 and have very much enjoyed the game during that time. If I have the right build, I can just barely solo Fungal Grotto, but I cannot yet finish Vetran Maelstrom Arena. That means that with more than a 1,000 hours onto just one character (and I have 6) I have not managed to break through into the upper echelon of ESO.
My Thoughts
I don't know what I think about the up and coming changes. I have not read the patch notes, and have not tried the PTS server yet, but I can see the need for a change. I am opening to how these changes are, but if someone who has literally put thousands of hours into this game and has played it almost exclusively over 6 years cannot break into the upper echelon of content, then there is definitely a need. I look forward to seeing how this change works.
From the little I know, I suspect that I will have an easier time doing the content I want to try.
Maybe the problem is in you? If you don't want to improve, then the problem lies in you, not the game, mechanics or so.
I'm a new player and one of the first thing i do was to understand the game mechanics, and mostly the combat ones, which is one of the most important part of the game.
Day 1 i start training my LA weaving.
Rewarding laziness and being bad at something is terrible thing to do. You should reward people for actually do good, just like it's in life.
starkerealm wrote: »From what I understand from the note they released before hand (and that is what spawned my thoughts) this patch was supposed to reduce the DPS of the many dots but increase the increase the overall damage.
Technically, that did happen, but it's based on a flawed premise. (To be fair to you, I'm not bashing on you, ZOS was deliberately deceptive in this regard.)
The actual, total, damage for a lot of dots went up. The problem with this statement was, in the past, if a DoT fell off, you'd just recast it (and probably still will.) So, each casting of a DoT is doing more total damage, but the DPS falls off a cliff, and it ends up doing ~half as much damage as it would have before, because you would have simply cast it a second time. So they can say, "well, total damage went up," but it's a lie. Especially since the DoTs can't stack with themselves. Worse, whoever wrote that originally knew it was grossly misleading.