ZOS, please explain why there are discussions ESO related posted on social media and not here first

EdmondDontes

We need an explanation as to why devs and other ESO representatives continue to post on social media about game related events and changes but not on this forum. This is the forum that is dedicated to the game and every aspect of it. Why are the devs and other ZOS representatives posting about the game on social media at all? Why not here first for everything they have to say and discuss?

There are a lot of us that shun all social media because it's primarily a source of misinformation and conspiracy theories. Not posting the information here de-legitimizes what any ZOS representative might have to say and isolates the information from what is supposed to be the primary source for ESO related information.

What's going on here? Why not post anything and everything ESO related on the dedicated ESO forum first and foremost? Isn't that what this forum is for?

What am I missing here? Social media is for kids and conspiracy theorists. This forum is for ESO related discussions and information. ....or at least that's what is says at the top of every page on this forum.

SimonThesis

I think Devs should be free to post on social media about the game but there should be some sort of Dev tracker on it so we can see too. More communication btw the devs and the players is badly needed. Tbf way more players follow ESO on twitter than have eso forum accounts, forum accounts which take weeks of wrangling with customer service to get.

Btw here's what the creative director said on Twitter: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing.

I get it, change is scary. At the same time though, a little trust would be much appreciated. At least experience the actual changes before guessing and going off the deep end..."

I disagree with it completely especially after they have broken our trust time and time again but they should be free to talk about the game and its way better than the wall of silence we're accustomed to.

EdmondDontes

SimonThesis wrote: »

I think Devs should be free to post on social media about the game but there should be some sort of Dev tracker on it so we can see too.

Sure, they should be free to post on social media.....AFTER they've posted the discussion and information here first. That's what this forum is for...allegedly.

kieso

I've seen this trend for a while now across the gaming industry. Posting news and updates on social media instead of official forums.

I personally don't like it and just wish they'd post on both platforms.

Ratzkifal

Probably because they value twitter more than their own forum. There are a lot of things that could be said here but this is honestly a can of worms that's better left unopened.

DagenHawk

The devs can post where they so choose...and the sad truth of it is you can say more on say Twitter than you can here. [snip]

[Edited for Off-Topic Discussion]

kargen27

I see these forums as just another type of social media with a specific interest. Anything official should be posted on the Elder Scrolls Online site. Anything not official can be put where ever the people posting choose to visit.

Basically these forums are mostly a place for players to communicate is my opinion.

Jaimeh

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Probably because they value twitter more than their own forum. There are a lot of things that could be said here but this is honestly a can of worms that's better left unopened.

I suppose because their account on twitter is for expressing views that are their own, regardless of their place in a company, so they feel it's more appropriate there, and also maybe they believe can get more validation for their statement on twitter than in the forums. Having said that I do think it's a bit awkward dissing your own playerbase.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

SimonThesis wrote: »

I think Devs should be free to post on social media about the game but there should be some sort of Dev tracker on it so we can see too. More communication btw the devs and the players is badly needed. Tbf way more players follow ESO on twitter than have eso forum accounts, forum accounts which take weeks of wrangling with customer service to get.

Btw here's what the creative director said on Twitter: "Knee jerk reactions... while not unexpected, they are still tiresome and disappointing.

I get it, change is scary. At the same time though, a little trust would be much appreciated. At least experience the actual changes before guessing and going off the deep end..."

I disagree with it completely especially after they have broken our trust time and time again but they should be free to talk about the game and its way better than the wall of silence we're accustomed to.

That same person and his spouse have also called the players a bunch of whiner's and that they don't listen to them on multiple streams. It is this type attitude that made me stop subscribing to ESO+ and adds to the reasons I will not buy High Isle. These days I come back for the events when there are event items I'm interested in but other than that I play a subscription MMO where the producer has a better relationship with the players.

Elsonso

EdmondDontes wrote: »

We need an explanation as to why devs and other ESO representatives continue to post on social media about game related events and changes but not on this forum. This is the forum that is dedicated to the game and every aspect of it. Why are the devs and other ZOS representatives posting about the game on social media at all? Why not here first for everything they have to say and discuss?

There are a lot of us that shun all social media because it's primarily a source of misinformation and conspiracy theories. Not posting the information here de-legitimizes what any ZOS representative might have to say and isolates the information from what is supposed to be the primary source for ESO related information.

What's going on here? Why not post anything and everything ESO related on the dedicated ESO forum first and foremost? Isn't that what this forum is for?

What am I missing here? Social media is for kids and conspiracy theorists. This forum is for ESO related discussions and information. ....or at least that's what is says at the top of every page on this forum.

I don't follow said person on Twitter, but I would classify this as less about information and... well... let's just say I don't think it would have been received well if posted here. His point is not wrong, but it isn't what I think people really need to hear. Gasoline, meet fire.

I don't want dev commentary like that in here. That can stay in Twitter, please.

What I want in here is for @ZOS_Gilliam to post an update, in addition to patch note comments, that detail concerns and demonstrate that they have actually thought about these things and taken them into consideration. As of now, it just seems like a random, arbitrary, edict that they never plan on clarifying, elaborating, or modifying. I don't expect them to dispel that impression, but if they could at least start, maybe they could earn some of that trust they seem to expect.

haelgaan

having neither fb nor twit accounts, how am i supposed to know if something relevant is posted there? i have no problem with ZOS using those channels, but agree with either

• a tracker linked on the forums page that reveals these ZOS posts on other media
• ZOS posting on the general forums in parallel with these other information releases

i don't think this is an extreme request- this is just basic communication to ZOS's playerbase

NeeScrolls

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

That same person and his spouse have also called the players a bunch of whiner's ..

Yeah but i mean, most players are.

Just sayin'.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

That same person and his spouse have also called the players a bunch of whiner's ..

Yeah but i mean, most players are.

Just sayin'.

When you are the senior representative of a product that type of comment is inappropriate and counter productive. They should have instead thought about why the player base has reached the point it has. Maybe it is the game's history of not addressing bugs, poor balancing changes and ignoring player feedback that show up during PTS testing that brought it to this point. The answer isn't to further blow off the player base but instead to put ego aside and take steps to rebuild confidence that ZOS will take the game in a direction that players will enjoy playing. It means thinking ahead of how something will be received. Explaining why something cannot be done other than saying it can't be done. When ZOS intends to take action on player concerns then stop hiding behind the curtain and acknowledge this. It boils down to having real communications and following through. It might also mean gagging some of the employees from having direct contact with the player base and letting those better equipped handle it.

Kiralyn2000

EdmondDontes wrote: »

We need an explanation as to why devs and other ESO representatives continue to post on social media about game related events and changes but not on this forum.

It's not just ESO. This kind of stuff has been happening for the last 5+ years on every "official" game forum that I've participated in.

Yes, it's annoying. But it's modern "social media" culture, for all the good and bad that brings.



At least they haven't closed the forum completely and moved it to Discord.


edit: the really great sites are the ones that don't even bother posting News on their forums anymore, and just put all of it on Twitter. /s

Mik195

I do find their emails exasperating. When they are promoting a Twitch stream, it always seems like finding the date and time takes too much work with multiple clicks.

spartaxoxo

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

That same person and his spouse have also called the players a bunch of whiner's and that they don't listen to them on multiple streams

It was his wife and it was the once.

spartaxoxo

https://twitter.com/SlashLurk/status/1545786200342110209?s=20&t=SsOFrubXsm3_DGDbhgqEuQ

BTW here's the tweet itself if anyone wants to see it.

NeeScrolls

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BTW here's the tweet itself if anyone wants to see it.

Seeing it makes it worse.

Why even give any oxygen to the vocal-minority in the first place?

Mistake by Mr. Lambert, imo.

Just code the game YOU want to make and stop paying so much attention to the trolls, whiners, and so called "influencers".

MasterSpatula

Gotta admit, this is pretty disrespectful.

NeeScrolls

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Gotta admit, this is pretty disrespectful.

i don't think it's disrespectful (cuz again, what he said is actually true lol ) but i just think it's unnecessary.

Why indulge the haters?

Vaoh

NeeScrolls wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BTW here's the tweet itself if anyone wants to see it.

Seeing it makes it worse.

Why even give any oxygen to the vocal-minority in the first place?

Mistake by Mr. Lambert, imo.

Just code the game YOU want to make and stop paying so much attention to the trolls, whiners, and so called "influencers".

NeeScrolls wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Gotta admit, this is pretty disrespectful.

i don't think it's disrespectful (cuz again, what he said is actually true lol ) but i just think it's unnecessary.

Why indulge the haters?

This game is made by the Devs, for the players. When you create a product you have to keep your customers in mind instead of doing whatever random stuff you want....

ESO has been out for 8 years and yet there is a heavy distrust within the community. Poor communication and constantly pushing controversial changes has caused this. It is difficult to build trust but here we are, clearly not yet even on the path to rebuilding that trust.

Personally I am waiting for Update 35 PTS before firmly judging the changes but my first impressions are not positive (except for increasing buff durations which might be nice).

Alinhbo_Tyaka

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

That same person and his spouse have also called the players a bunch of whiner's and that they don't listen to them on multiple streams

It was his wife and it was the once.

There were also comments made by the person themself about whiny players and ignoring the player base in answer to a question on a Stream Team member's stream about the Maelstrom Arena weapons award change. IMO there just seems to be a general feeling of contempt for the players who generate the revenue that makes the product possible.

NeeScrolls

Vaoh wrote: »

This game is made by the Devs, for the players. .

Sorry but i've been on a 'dev team' for another MMO and , at least from my experience, devs (coders) certainly don't "make for the players" . They code & design from something internal (and, for the best ones, it's something inspirational) .

Therein lies the biggest problem imo , since paying customers (or heck even Free-to-players ) have such a tremendously unhealthy sense of entitlement most of the time.

So most gamers forget Rule #1 of MMO's: Gameplay is subject to change...at a whim.

And any developer who caters too much toward the permanantly fickle & insatiable playerbase is gonna run into issues.
.

Riptide

I’m shrug at them at this point.

But I will say that most of us know someone that mutters and whatnot about their significant other nagging them - on a barstool, because they don’t dare do it at home. I mean I sorta smile in pity at those sorta folks and change the subject to anything I can think of in awkward embarrassment for them.

spartaxoxo

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

That same person and his spouse have also called the players a bunch of whiner's and that they don't listen to them on multiple streams

It was his wife and it was the once.

There were also comments made by the person themself about whiny players and ignoring the player base in answer to a question on a Stream Team member's stream about the Maelstrom Arena weapons award change. IMO there just seems to be a general feeling of contempt for the players who generate the revenue that makes the product possible.

That is not what he said during that time.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528421/rich-lamberts-stance-on-perfected-master-and-maelstrom-weapons/p1

I didn't like what he said here either and still disagree with it but this is what his stance was basically the entire time. That he didn't feel players had earned the new weapons because they were entirely new weapons.

rpa

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

This game is made by the Devs, for the players. .

Sorry but i've been on a 'dev team' for another MMO and , at least from my experience, devs (coders) certainly don't "make for the players" . They code & design from something internal (and, for the best ones, it's something inspirational) .

Therein lies the biggest problem imo , since paying customers (or heck even Free-to-players ) have such a tremendously unhealthy sense of entitlement most of the time.

So most gamers forget Rule #1 of MMO's: Gameplay is subject to change...at a whim.

And any developer who caters too much toward the permanantly fickle & insatiable playerbase is gonna run into issues.
.

So what did they change? I mean I still have not gotten out of totally casual mode after my break so I have not noticed anything alarming. In general changes are necessary but it's not my duty to play a game if I feel its for worse and actually I have quit few games because gameplay changed in ways I did not like.

Jeffrey530

[snip]

Hey is free, download it and give it a go, you can choose to only subscribe to specific accounts if you are so worried about misinformation

[edited for baiting]

NeeScrolls

rpa wrote: »

So what did they change?

Nothing, yet --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/610438/update-35-combat-preview/p1

i think that's sorta what Mr. Lambert was trying to say , but imho it's just so obvious there's no legit reason to say it out-loud on silly Twitter in public.

Just let the vocal-minority rant & rage all they want.

They will NEVER be satisfied. Ever. No matter what.
.

Vaoh

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

This game is made by the Devs, for the players. .

Sorry but i've been on a 'dev team' for another MMO and , at least from my experience, devs (coders) certainly don't "make for the players" . They code & design from something internal (and, for the best ones, it's something inspirational) .

Therein lies the biggest problem imo , since paying customers (or heck even Free-to-players ) have such a tremendously unhealthy sense of entitlement most of the time.

So most gamers forget Rule #1 of MMO's: Gameplay is subject to change...at a whim.

And any developer who caters too much toward the permanantly fickle & insatiable playerbase is gonna run into issues.
.

That’s interesting, what do you think of the Ashes of Creation approach which has been extremely community input driven?

I’m not sure if it’s a game you happen to be keeping up with but it’s an MMO which is currently in alpha. They’ve provided huge insight into their development process in all sorts of ways, wondering if you think this is mostly a good or bad thing. It’s catering more to their players than any game I’ve followed before.

TaSheen

The real bottom line is that developers of a game have a vision for that game - and in my experience they generally do not move outside their vision.

Players think devs make games for players - that's not really the actuality. Devs make games the way they want to see them - and of course also to make money for the investor(s). As well, they have to toe a line - if they want to be retained and make good (or not so) money, they have to at least give lip service to the suits.

No one puts millions of dollars into developing a game like this one to "make players happy". As long as some players are happy, and the churn provides new players at a rate that keeps the investors happy, that's the actual bottom line. Yes, that's a pretty jaundiced viewpoint - but I think it's also pretty spot on.

It's not just ESO. I've played many games - and IIRC, this is how all of them worked, at least the MMOs. Single player games are a little different but you only have to look at Skyrim to see the money trail....

NeeScrolls

Vaoh wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

This game is made by the Devs, for the players. .

Sorry but i've been on a 'dev team' for another MMO and , at least from my experience, devs (coders) certainly don't "make for the players" . They code & design from something internal (and, for the best ones, it's something inspirational) .

Therein lies the biggest problem imo , since paying customers (or heck even Free-to-players ) have such a tremendously unhealthy sense of entitlement most of the time.

So most gamers forget Rule #1 of MMO's: Gameplay is subject to change...at a whim.

And any developer who caters too much toward the permanantly fickle & insatiable playerbase is gonna run into issues.
.

That’s interesting, what do you think of the Ashes of Creation approach which has been extremely community input driven?

Never heard of it tbqh , however that's a very ironic game name to be sure.

I'm def. gonna go check it out and read up on it.

Vaoh wrote: »

They’ve provided huge insight into their development process in all sorts of ways, wondering if you think this is mostly a good or bad thing. It’s catering more to their players than any game I’ve followed before.

Behind-the-code-curtain insight is WONDERFUL ...and i personally believe the greatest "respect" you can give the playerbase (or any public society) is to provide them with as much actual hard DATA & INFO as is legally possible.

Otherwise, a 'vacuum' can form...usually to be filled by trolls & conspiracies.
.