Need to fix people instantly leaving DLC dungeons

NordSwordnBoard

You can try to punish the people who wasted your time, or you can suggest a change to the reason they were motivated to do so in the first place. DLC = more time spent for the same reward. Needs to become DLC = more time spent for more reward. The reward most often sought in the random is the Stones and XP. Why would people choose a longer grind? Move this grind to a different venue and the "need to fix people" doing xyz posts will greatly decrease.

Korsario

Yep alot of you are giving similar solutions either the carrot or the stick but would be nice if ZOS acknowledges the problem.

spartaxoxo

Roztlin45 wrote: »

How.to.do plan to distinguish between people.that leave and people that were disconnected? Really.nothing can be done to punish without also punishing the innocent. So.that is a no go. I understand the frustration but it is what it is. What your really asking is for people to be thoughtful and be courteous.

They actually can tell who hit leave group.

I think they should make it if you click that button, you can't join a new group until the old group clears or gets someone new. In this way, you can be made to wait just as long as they had to.

People who constantly click leave should be punished for gameplay sabotage by getting temp bans from the activity finder. And eventually disallowed from queueing random at all if they don't stop. They should still be allowed to do specific dungeons and all other content in the game. But if they are going to try to a sabotage a system designed others for their own personal gain, they shouldn't be allowed to continue to use that system. It's how many other games work.

spartaxoxo

Korsario wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Korsario wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Easiest partial fix would be less people spreading a word how those are "impossible", most of the times people just afraid of something they were told being too difficult or broken which might not be the case for a lot of folks who have never even tried em.

I dont think the problem is they are "difficult" yeah some mechanics are a lil more complex in normal but the main reason people skip is because they take 2-4 times as long than the base game one it just isnt time efficient. Now adays people jsut want efficiency on their time so they prefer tow ait 15 mins doing something else and then just fish for another fast dungeon.

So im afraid we cant really change mmo player mindset on this day an age, so this will require developers doing something about it.

That's why it won't change as policing such stuff is worse than a lost queue time. If players have no time for a game and they're going for a low effort same reward stuff they're probably just quit all along instead of obeying some new rulesets.

I mean if all the dungeons are made to last around the same amount of time in normal mode it fixes the problem by default or if players are rewarded to stay for the longer ones.

Most of the dungeons DO last around the same amount of time. People keep comparing the longest DLCs like Lair of Maarselok, to the shortest normals like Fungal Grotto. Which is just an unfair comparison designed to justify bad behavior.

DigiAngel

I've actually timed a lot of my dungeon gameplay....a Splindleclutch 1 with a group of all triple digit CP can breeze through in under 10 minutes, and that's not even rushing or mini-boss skipping. If you can show me a DLC dungeon with that time..I'd love to see it honestly.

spartaxoxo

DigiAngel wrote: »

I've actually timed a lot of my dungeon gameplay....a Splindleclutch 1 with a group of all triple digit CP can breeze through in under 10 minutes, and that's not even rushing or mini-boss skipping. If you can show me a DLC dungeon with that time..I'd love to see it honestly.

Not even Crypt of Hearts is as fast as Spindle 1. The original baby's first dungeons are all shorter than is typical of even base game dungeons.

Paralyse

@DigiAngel

Not sure about 10 minutes but the following DLC can be done under 20 minutes on Normal with decent groups. There may be others, too, depending on your group and comfortability with mechanics and encounters. I put a note next to some where some or many of the add pulls can be avoided entirely.

White Gold Tower
Lair of Maarselok (trash skips)
Ruins of Mazzatun (trash skips)
Unhallowed Grave
Fang Lair (trash skips)
Bloodroot Forge (trash skips)
Falkreath Hold (trash skips)
Black Drake Villa (trash skips)
The Dread Cellar
Shipwright's Regret (trash skips)
Coral Aerie (trash skips)

My record for normal BDV is probably 10 minutes or maybe even faster than that running with 4 geared dps and skipping all skippable pulls

DigiAngel

Good list.

NoxiousBlight

I know this will be unpopular but...

But you will never get me to run Lair of Maarselok on a daily random no matter how much you punish me. I will quit it every single time. And if the punishment is extreme like "no dungeons for 24 hours" then I will just stop playing ESO for the next 24 hours.

Right now they use the random queue to fill missing spots for people who want to run those awful dungeons. Instead of forcing randoms in there, they should just do a bonus for dungeons. For example, one DLC dungeon a day gets the "bonus" marker and if you queue directly for that dungeon you get double drops the first time you run it or something like that.

They try to do this with pledges but I don't think it is enough to incentivize people.

They keep making dungeons longer and harder with more secret bosses and all this additional junk. I hate it. It just makes having ESO+ worse with every new dungeon pack they release.

TL;DR: Get rid of DLC dungeons from the random queue, make one DLC dungeon a day the "bonus" DLC dungeon where you get double drops. That way people who need to work on their DLC dungeons will always have a chance.

Jusey1

City of Ash 2 is the longest dungeon if you ask me and that's a base game one... I don't get why people would leave because DLC dungeon.

Mesite

I don't have most of the DLC dungeons, and don't have ESO+, but for the Imperial City Prison I usually find people drop out during the fight with the Overfiend boss. If we get through that battle we're usually okay though.

SilverBride

The most obvious solution would be to have a queue of just base game dungeons for those players who do not enjoy DLC dungeons. This has been asked for repeatedly and would benefit both the player who doesn't want to run the DLC dungeon and the group that is now left waiting for another player to join.

It doesn't matter what the players' reasons are for not wanting to run them. Enough of them don't that it is creating a problem for everyone. But punishing a player for leaving a dungeon they don't want to run is not the answer.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

. But punishing a player for leaving a dungeon they don't want to run is not the answer.

Disagree. I don't think people should get rewards for helping anyone they can if they won't. And I view leaving constantly to get a dungeon you want to the detriment of a group as gameplay sabotage. People try this other games and they are punished for leaving too much. The same could happen here.

ETA: I do think they could also make transmutes more accessible outside of it too, so as to make it something people don't feel they need to do to get them.

orgin_stadia

After doing thousands of rnd's I wouldn't call people leaving dlc dungeons that much of an issue. It's certainly not what I would call common. (PC EU). If it happens just queue up for a replacement and press on while waiting.

spartaxoxo

orgin_stadia wrote: »

After doing thousands of rnd's I wouldn't call people leaving dlc dungeons that much of an issue. It's certainly not what I would call common. (PC EU). If it happens just queue up for a replacement and press on while waiting.

I do agree that it's not as constant as the OP makes out. It happens enough to be an issue, but most runs still just get done. I do suspect there's a degree of skill involved as to whether someone leaves your group early or not as well.

Korsario

orgin_stadia wrote: »

After doing thousands of rnd's I wouldn't call people leaving dlc dungeons that much of an issue. It's certainly not what I would call common. (PC EU). If it happens just queue up for a replacement and press on while waiting.

Replacement queue doesn't really work, as ie xplaiend it took like 20-30 mins basically until we got to the last boss and then i found the missing DPS! Like you gonna tell me there was not a thousand DPS people LFG.

spartaxoxo

Korsario wrote: »

orgin_stadia wrote: »

After doing thousands of rnd's I wouldn't call people leaving dlc dungeons that much of an issue. It's certainly not what I would call common. (PC EU). If it happens just queue up for a replacement and press on while waiting.

Replacement queue doesn't really work, as ie xplaiend it took like 20-30 mins basically until we got to the last boss and then i found the missing DPS! Like you gonna tell me there was not a thousand DPS people LFG.

It not working is imo, separate to people leaving.

IMO they should

1) field the queues so they work better
2) give an alternative to obtaining a decent amount of transmute crystals per day. I think people just trying to fix up their gear without having to PVP is one of the biggest causes of the increase in fakes and leavers
3) make the leaver penalty account Wide, and start handing out escalating punishments for those who overuse the leave button. We should be able to leave sometimes but not constantly.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

...start handing out escalating punishments for those who overuse the leave button

That is very heavy handed for players who just don't want to spend their time playing content they don't enjoy.

Korsario

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

...start handing out escalating punishments for those who overuse the leave button

That is very heavy handed for players who just don't want to spend their time playing content they don't enjoy.

Then dont queue for random?

SilverBride

Korsario wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

...start handing out escalating punishments for those who overuse the leave button

That is very heavy handed for players who just don't want to spend their time playing content they don't enjoy.

Then dont queue for random?

Or they could have a separate queue for base zone dungeons. There is a need which is obvious from all the threads that pop up about it.

Riptide

Yeah, separate queues for DLCs/base game dungeons is easily the simplest solution to implement, and been being asked for for years.

As a tank, I give them three wipes. I try to relay mechanics, and if they are showing signs of life I’ll drive on. If not, life is truly too short. After the 50th or so caffeinated goof who pulls everything madly or won’t read text and not on VC etc you just flat have used up your benefit of the doubt. On the few times I queue as DD I do leave immediately and block fake tanks, it is a very big pet peeve with no excuse whatever.

Paralyse

Random isn't random.

There are metrics and algorithms at work behind the scenes beyond just randomly sticking the next available dps, tank, or healer into an open slot.

For instance, let's say you get Normal Shipwright's Regret and for some reason a tank leaves at Nazaray.
Your pool is not just "any tank" -- it's any tank over level 45, who is not grouped with anyone else, and who has ESO+ and/or has purchased High Isle and the DLC content for SWR/CA. Oh, and it can't be a daily pledge, because apparently the system tries not to stick people in the middle of daily pledge dungeons to keep them from having to run them twice in some cases.

Compare this to, say, normal Fungal Grotto I, where the pool of available players in the queue is larger -- no DLC, very low starting level.

I would also like to point out that I have completed many normal dungeons (and a few Vet) with three or even two players. (Including Vet Scalecaller Peak 2 weeks ago with 1 healer (me) and 2 dps) So just because someone leaves doesn't mean you have to just sit there and wait, especially now that Companions are a thing!

Rowjoh

I must admit that I have left a few rn DLC's.

And I know I'm not alone, not because of difficulty but because of the length of time some of them take.

There are a small handful that are so long winded and tedious they take 20 minutes+ to complete, which is way too long when most rn's only take 5-10 mins!

If the devs created cut down versions of those 'horrors', that would do it for me

Grizzbeorn

Korsario wrote: »

Then dont queue for random?

Maybe take your own advice?

What_In_Tarnation

When in doubt, form premade group. Solid advice right here.

Kahnak

This is the funniest thing I've seen all day:

"Or you know they could not make those DLC dungeons idioticly hard..."

The META doesn't Matter

Maybe try a little bit of that meta and DLC dungeons won't be nearly as hard.

SilverBride

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

When in doubt, form premade group. Solid advice right here.

That works for players who don't mind DLC dungeons as well as those who do.

El_Borracho

For those wanting to punish players for leaving, you're ignoring that there is a flip side to that coin. Heavier punishments for the quitters also apply to you. Which means when you queue for a random as a tank (a real tank) and find out the DDs are wet noodles or want to loot everything under the sun, you're stuck with them.

So enjoy that amazing March of Sacrifices run on normal where the DDs don't keep the first bosses separate and keep wiping. Over and over again. And you can't kick them because they're friends. After all, a tank leaving a group in a DLC is so unforgiveable, we must keep track of who does it and increase the punishment for them every time.

No big deal, right? I mean, its just a normal. Who doesn't have all day to run it...

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

...start handing out escalating punishments for those who overuse the leave button

That is very heavy handed for players who just don't want to spend their time playing content they don't enjoy.

The entire point of the random dungeon finder reward is to pay people for being willing to play content they may or may not enjoy, so that they can place them in a dungeon where that player is needed rather than where the player wants to play. People trying to do only do dungeons they want are exploiting the system to get the rewards, and in doing so disrupting the gameplay of those who need help. In my own personal opinion, that should be a punishable offense. I don't think it should disrupt other aspects of gameplay, but I do think if you won't absolutely refuse to random dungeons then you should be removed from the random dungeon finder eventually. You still should be able to do specific dungeons or access the dungeons by porting inside directly. But that's just how I personally feel about it.

edit: The royal you, not you in particular. Sorry

TmzOS

IMO the problem is DLC access. Some players don't have access to all DLCs (not all are paying for ESO+, that should be treated as a bonus and not as default game way.. ready this ZOS). If you have a smaller pool of players you will not fill the queue well. This practice of splitting dungeons from the main content (chapter) is bad.

When I see some veteran players talking about gaming "tips" most of them says that DLC dungeons are harder too, it makes the content avoidable too.

Another problem of DLC dungeons is the point that you don't need to do those too much, when you get some good parts of the sticker book and finish the main quest of the dungeon there's no point to play it again (for most players I suppose).

The idea to split base game dungeons and dlc dungeons from the queue is good, a very famous mmo does something like this for years and is very effective.