Urzigurumash wrote: »Just give it the Pale Order treatment when Battlespirit is active: you cannot be healed by other players.
Any objections?
Even if you can get a buff through a skill, you cannot gaurantee it has 100% uptime.
Maybe you run out of resources so you cannot reapply the buff, maybe you are pressured and have to heal, or put up a shield, or roll dodge, or go on the offensive to secure a close kill.
So many factors play into your uptime of buffs acquired through skill usage. And the ring eliminates all of that. So, a perfect player may be able to keep 100% uptime on a few of these, but not all. And zero 2 bar players will have every one of these buffs on a build at the same time.
[While slotted you gain Major Savagery and Prophecy, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629. ]
That's one that I usually use and is always active when I attack. It's why it's the one I recall the most. That could be the only one, I'm not sure unless I look it up. Though I honestly don't want to spend time to look it up when you guys are just going to disagree. Lol even when I'm agreeing with you, you find things to argue about. In the end, Zos will do whatever they think is best and we'll all live with it.
If they nerf it, I'll still use it and adjust my bar. If they don't, I'll keep my build as is. I'm not upset about either, I try not get upset about things that are not in my hands. This is just me sharing my opinion.
The issue is, you keep saying that you agree to remove or lessen anything that isn't usually 100% uptime on a two bar build without actually knowing what that is. You have repeatedly argued in this post that it isn't that strong, when people are really only saying like 2 of the buffs need to be adjusted, and the ring would still provide more buffs than a 2 bar build could possible have up. This is a direct quote from you earlier in this thread:
"Oakensoul doesn't carry anyone as it gives you the same thing you would have on a two bar setup."
My entire reply earlier detailed out how literally only like 3 of the buffs were possible to have 100% uptime on a two bar build. So effectively, the entire ring provides something not possible to two bar builds. What you have stated is provably false. And the frustration here by players who actually want to see this balanced in a meaningful way, without making it useless, is that players who don't really understand the buffs the ring provides are offering balance advice.
Urzigurumash wrote: »Just give it the Pale Order treatment when Battlespirit is active: you cannot be healed by other players.
Any objections?
Urzigurumash wrote: »Just give it the Pale Order treatment when Battlespirit is active: you cannot be healed by other players.
Any objections?
Urzigurumash wrote: »Just give it the Pale Order treatment when Battlespirit is active: you cannot be healed by other players.
Any objections?
Urzigurumash wrote: »Just give it the Pale Order treatment when Battlespirit is active: you cannot be healed by other players.
Any objections?
[snip] PvP is a competitive environment and should remain that way. Ever since mythics and overtunned procs where introduced all this has diminished. Insane how wrong zenimax has PvP. Such a shame from the brilliance that was 1.6 patch.
Pepegrillos wrote: »Our argument is that a terrible player who normally has 0 chance against you, now magically is way more of a threat due to one item. Now I KNOW Zenimax wants to low the skill gap. I Have no idea why, let the bad players improve to get better, don't give them hand outs to stay bad at the game, they will never ever get better and thats extremely flawed in PvE and PvP and horrendous for game health, hence why people are outraged.
If people had followed the last 5 or 6 combat updates, none of these changes would come as a surprise. Multiple times they have stated, rather obliquely, that they want to close the gap between new/casual and sweaty players.
These changes might be bad for veteran players, for 1vxers, for skilled streamers, etc. But they are not bad for the health of the game. The sole reason this game is still around is that they have systematically catered to casual players.
The average ESO player is terrible at the game. And it doesn't seem like they care about getting better. All these changes ease and improve their experience. In pvp, they turn regular cannon fodder into a threat.
Thecompton73 wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Just give it the Pale Order treatment when Battlespirit is active: you cannot be healed by other players.
Any objections?
I don't think the NB's coming out of stealth and jacking people for 35K in one GCD are worried about cross healing.
Pepegrillos wrote: »Our argument is that a terrible player who normally has 0 chance against you, now magically is way more of a threat due to one item. Now I KNOW Zenimax wants to low the skill gap. I Have no idea why, let the bad players improve to get better, don't give them hand outs to stay bad at the game, they will never ever get better and thats extremely flawed in PvE and PvP and horrendous for game health, hence why people are outraged.
If people had followed the last 5 or 6 combat updates, none of these changes would come as a surprise. Multiple times they have stated, rather obliquely, that they want to close the gap between new/casual and sweaty players.
These changes might be bad for veteran players, for 1vxers, for skilled streamers, etc. But they are not bad for the health of the game. The sole reason this game is still around is that they have systematically catered to casual players.
The average ESO player is terrible at the game. And it doesn't seem like they care about getting better. All these changes ease and improve their experience. In pvp, they turn regular cannon fodder into a threat.
You do realise though, that those 1vxers and skilled streamers are also using the ring and wrecking face with it.
Because they know how to make builds in general. So while Joe noob might put this ring on, his others sets will be trash. Or his skill selection is trash. Or his ability is trash.
The skilled player has the opposite. So he kills Joe noob easier than before.
For me, that's the issue. I consider myself a decent player who always holds his own. Right now, if I come across a player not wearing it while I am, it's a bloodbath.
If two people of equal skill fight, one is wearing it and one is not, the ring wings 99% of the time.
If people are defending the ring, just be honest why. It's fun, I agree with you. Or you want it to stay strong in pve, which again I agree with you.
But to say it isn't strong or it's a narrative that streamers or solo players are pushing because it stops them being able to do that is false
Most solo players rely on high burst and mobility over tankiness. This ring gives more burst than you could ask for, so would benefit solo players too. I'm finding solo play easier with it, mopping people up.
But it's being that I'm forced to use it, because if I don't, I'm going backwards and so far behind other players.
ShadowProc wrote: »I encourage all pvers to come get some payback for being taken advantage of all these years. Enjoy it while you can before the the streamers/1vxers (smallest group in game), get their way so they can go back to being unkillable and take advantage again.
when people are really only saying like 2 of the buffs need to be adjusted
ShadowProc wrote: »I encourage all pvers to come get some payback for being taken advantage of all these years. Enjoy it while you can before the the streamers/1vxers (smallest group in game), get their way so they can go back to being unkillable and take advantage again.
1vXers use oaken with ultgen builds today. They are unkillable. It's just boring.
ShadowProc wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »I encourage all pvers to come get some payback for being taken advantage of all these years. Enjoy it while you can before the the streamers/1vxers (smallest group in game), get their way so they can go back to being unkillable and take advantage again.
1vXers use oaken with ultgen builds today. They are unkillable. It's just boring.
Not true. They are all killable. I have proven that constantly since this ring dropped.
That should tell you the sorry state that DoT/pressure damage is in, and has been in for years. While SWW/WoF Bow Sorc can kill some in 2-3 GCDs from range, tankier enemies will still out-heal its pressure. The build can't face tank or spam invisbility, honestly one of the better balanced "glass cannons" we've had. Also, check your Combat Metrics regarding SWW, reports of it being "op" have been greatly exaggerated by the sort of player who cries when they can't out-heal everything.Btw, it's weird that we don't see any outcry about Savage Werewolf on the forums, set literally does double the intended dps, and intended dps is highest proc set dot.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Want a healthier meta? Buff DoT/pressure damage, nerf heals and one-shot burst damage. Combat should be a dynamic back-and-forth power struggle, not a binary state of players being instantly dead or instantly back to full hp.
Devs often say that players are much better at identifying problems than solving them. Let the devs worry about solving the problem, us players agreeing on the problem and bringing it to their attention is the best possible first step.I want that, but I don't agree on the methods.
chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »I think the ring is showing just how much gear matters more then skill. It's boosting the power of those without access to the best gear far more then those with it.
Skill does matter, but players always attribute more to their own skill then is warranted.
I'm also seeing that players with the easiest access to gear seem to be the ones complaining more. I can't find a streamer who likes this ring. Maybe that's just coincidence? I doubt it.
Streamers are the worst people to be listening to about this. They don't play the game like most of us do. I love those guys for the theory crafting they do that I can leverage. Keep giving them gold because information is the best way to level the playing field for a lot of players. But at the same time they are not in touch with the average player.
Before oakensoul I was struggling to be competitive. I'm a returning player. I'm a competitive player I have zero issues managing two bars, I've been proficient with my naga and keyboard for many years. I simply don't have the time to grind out gear sets and don't even get me started on jewelry costs. And with how the meta changes so much, and if you want a bit of variety not stuck playing just a single character mostly. Well it's impossible for someone even with skill to be competitive without also investing a ton of time into gear grinds.
Now I can go out and go face to face with players that before I couldn't. That gap is obviously the gear. It always was mostly the gear.
This has held true in every mmo I've played, going back to Ultima Online. There are a core set of skills common to games like input handling. Keyboard/naga/controller/whatever. Then theory crafting but that is now easier then ever with so much shared information. And when you boil it all down the actual skill specific to the game is relatively smaller.
I'm sure my fun will end sooner then later. And I'll go back to being average, because of course I just don't have the skills.
@ZOS
One thing you could do is just take all buffs and procs out of pvp. I see a lot of people saying sets and buffs are carrying us, so what better way to solve the problem then to remove them from pvp all together. Then we'll all have an even floor to focus purely on just "skill".
TheEndBringer wrote: »You want the ring to stay as is because of how it benefits you without considering how it has negatively impacted pvp, including punishing players who don't want to use it.
Aren't you kind of doing the same? You want to take it away because you either can't get it/don't want it or you don't want to adjust the build you already have. So to make things easier for you, you just want it gone or nerfed. When there are actual player like me who uses to ring to keep up with the more experienced players.
lots of build opportunities with brokensoul...
honestly, for those of you who spend most of your eso time fighting other players - do you really miss bar-swapping and constantly having to buff yourself and practice your rotations...
So you're trying to say a set is balancing pvp? Sounds like the set is overperforming.
Sets never should balance pvp, they should be trying to make the game balance on it's own. Not slapping sets on the game to fix balance. Zos needs to stop introducing sets to balance the game and fix broken crap.
Dark convergence didn't fix game balance, Plaguebreak didn't fix balance, Crimson didn't, malacath didin't, Sload's didn't.
Oakensoul doesnt either. It's just OP in pvp for the same of OP
They need to actually make the game balanced and stop using sets to balance pvp that is terribly balanced
Emmagoldman wrote: »lots of build opportunities with brokensoul...
honestly, for those of you who spend most of your eso time fighting other players - do you really miss bar-swapping and constantly having to buff yourself and practice your rotations...
Yes, that is what has made eso pvp unique and challenging. You have to learn when to go offensive, defensive, apply pressure, remove snares and catch people when they stretch out too thin. One of the worse patches for sure.
Emmagoldman wrote: »They Flipped to the other end and as you stated, used sets to try and bring balance. Hybridization, as interesting as it is, tossed identity aside and pvp is overall is just a hot mess. Shifting the meta towards 5 skills, changes the games in major ways.