I'm not a fan of the "To be continued..." stories and quests we are seeing more in chapters

Iselin

I'll keep this short and spoiler free but ever since ZOS started doing the "year-long" themes with the dragons each chapter seems to get progressively worse with respect to feeling unresolved. Elsewyr and Western Skyrim weren't too bad with satisfying chapter storyline conclusions and then a fall DLC that completed the year with additional related stories.

Blackwood ended with more of a "to be continued..." feel to it but High Isle is even worse in that respect with not just the main quest being part of that but one particular quest in a public dungeon feeling also unresolved which I assume, will be resolved next fall.

It's not just that each chapter feels progressively "thinner" quest and story wise, I'm just not a fan of cliffhangers in stories. It's kind of making me feel like chapters shouldn't be bought when they release but it would be better to wait until the end of the year to get the whole story at once... just like we used to get with Morrowind and Summerset.

DagenHawk

You know I'm okay with it because at least you can follow the stories in ESO...

In the two other popular MMO's you have these convoluted stories and only obsessive devotee's of Zamil Ahktar or Adinath Jayadhar could comprehend these weird ass boring tales.

In ESO I am a wandering sell sword and there are times I am part of an adventuring company....I'm not a god or the savior of all sentient life on Nirn. It's simple and fun.


It's The Black Company
It's Conan and Sobotai
It's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Tell them to never change please.

NeKryXe

The "to be continued..." scheme in games, tv series, movies, books, and so on... for me are always a good reason to quit and move on to other thing. It's always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty. So, I'm completely with you on this.

Gaebriel0410

I am not too bothered with the two part stories myself, but..

How on earth is a multi part story in any media a scheme or a sign of incompetence or dishonesty?

DagenHawk

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

I am not too bothered with the two part stories myself, but..

How on earth is a multi part story in any media a scheme or a sign of incompetence or dishonesty?

Because that has to be worked into every aspect of the detractors of this game sadly

I would like to see one MMO that does it better.....the other two MMO's I mentioned have cliff hangers constantly....convoluted weird ass cliffhangers...

ArchMikem

I'd rather not have one and done plots. It'll feel rushed and meaningless before long.

Amottica

Technically Zenimax was doing the continued story before they changed to the year long story. They found we liked Summerset and the two chapter/dlc stories that lead into it more than the stand alone stories.

Granted, I think the Morrowind/CWC/Summerset storylines are my favorites though I did enjoy running with Sir Cadell again in his stories.

spartaxoxo

NeKryXe wrote: »

It's always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty.

What? Stories need varying lengths to work. If it feels forced then sure, but always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty??? I think it really depends on the story and the amount of bloat.

TaSheen

I LOVE cliffhangers. Nora Roberts' latest series - The Dragonheart Legacy - has a cliffhanger to beat them all! And I quite like the way the year-long stories work here.

Carcamongus

The cliffhangers are supposed to keep players interested, which should hopefully mean they'll keep playing to see what will happen next. I didn't see any problems with High Isle's main quest in that regard and I even found it enjoyable to come up with a guess as to the Ascendant Lord's identity. Yes, I was unhappy at having to wait several months to see how the story would end, but I suppose that's a sign the devs did something right.

CP5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

It's always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty.

What? Stories need varying lengths to work. If it feels forced then sure, but always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty??? I think it really depends on the story and the amount of bloat.

Some chapters were able to end with a satisfying conclusion, while some feel newer chapters instead back load more of the resolution and quality into the Q4 expansion, from what I've seen the western skyrim story really did this with people finding the Q2 story underwhelming and the markarth part a sharp step up in quality. So saying the writers either don't know how to provide a satisfying ending while also being able to lead into another chapter, or that they intentionally break a story up to incentivize people to buy the next chapter, are both valid criticisms as it seems to be a habit of theirs.

bmnoble

NeKryXe wrote: »

The "to be continued..." scheme in games, tv series, movies, books, and so on... for me are always a good reason to quit and move on to other thing. It's always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty. So, I'm completely with you on this.

They can't give you what they haven't made yet, got no problem with to be continued in entertainment.

You do understand most entertainment is not meant to be a one off standalone thing but something that continues for years across multiple books/movies/seasons/even games have multiple titles in their series, at least here your waiting a few months instead of a few years for the next part to come out.

True sign of incompetence to me is if your book/tv series/movie trilogy be cancelled on the first part and never concludes at all. The dishonest part is usually afterward where they label that one part as "the complete collection" and charge an arm and a leg for something that never went anywhere.

LikiLoki

These stories are so long that I keep asking myself: who is it? Where am I going? what are they talking about? As a result, I feel lost and don't see the point in the game. She becomes purely mechanical and loses her soul. I don't need such long plots

Kappachi

It seems like a genius idea to split the story up across the year so they can see any complaints/compliments to the story and focus on those things for when the story is fully finished. With how much the devs read the forums/get reports from the CMs it seems like that may be something that happens.

Also, this game has such a wealth of content that you don't immediately need to see the ending to one plot, you can be traveling around and completing different parts of the game in the meantime or rolling a new character so you can remember the specifics of some main story quest you cleared 8 years ago but forgot about til now.

spartaxoxo

CP5 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

It's always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty.

What? Stories need varying lengths to work. If it feels forced then sure, but always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty??? I think it really depends on the story and the amount of bloat.

Some chapters were able to end with a satisfying conclusion, while some feel newer chapters instead back load more of the resolution and quality into the Q4 expansion, from what I've seen the western skyrim story really did this with people finding the Q2 story underwhelming and the markarth part a sharp step up in quality. So saying the writers either don't know how to provide a satisfying ending while also being able to lead into another chapter, or that they intentionally break a story up to incentivize people to buy the next chapter, are both valid criticisms as it seems to be a habit of theirs.

We've had a few multipart stories now.

1) Morrowind - Clockwork City- Summerset
2) Elsewery - Southern Elsweyr
3) Greymoor - Markarth
4) Blackwood - Deadlands
5) and now High Isle - Q4

Of those, I'd say that 1 and 2 were both excellently done and are generally well-regarded. Number 3 I think the response was mixed. I think some people started to complain that the story didn't work as a year long story. But also I think a lot of people's main complaint about Greymoor was moreso about the repetitive nature of the investigation elements of the prologue/dungeons than there was about the story line transition between the chapter and Q4 DLC. Q4 being better doesn't necessarily mean the story would have worked as a standalone chapter. This story spanned 3 distinctive regions (Western Skyrim, Blackreach, and Markarth). I think you'd be hard pressed to do a satisfying job of all of those in a single chapter. And that it was probably best to break down those parts as they did, even if it meant they had to stretch the investigation out a bit too much. ETA: and I think that the parts that probably should have been worked are instead the Icereach dungeon and Prologue quest instead, the Greymoor story would have been a lot better if we hadn't already reached this same conclusion twice before. On the other hand, there was a lot of that kind of complaint about Blackwood. Regardless, 2 out of 4 of the stories definitely not working isn't all of the stories being incompetent. And I mean all in the sense of "usually" not overly literal interpretation that literally all of the stories we've had should have been shorter.

Iselin

@spartaxoxo

I would carve out Clockwork City from Morrowind in your list.

Yes, to fans who played the single player version of Morrowind, there's a clear connection there but for those who haven't it's a somewhat related but also a completely different thing. It's not a continuation of the ESO Morrowind story as is the case for the chapters starting with Elsweyr.

TaSheen

Well, the game itself/the devs reference the Morrowind-CWC-Summerset group as a whole - a trilogy of sorts. Personally, I'm not thrilled with that concatenation, but that's just me.

spartaxoxo

Iselin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo

I would carve out Clockwork City from Morrowind in your list.

Yes, to fans who played the single player version of Morrowind, there's a clear connection there but for those who haven't it's a somewhat related but also a completely different thing. It's not a continuation of the ESO Morrowind story as is the case for the chapters starting with Elsweyr.

It is a continuous story. It is part of the Daedric Triad invasion arc.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedric_Triad

Jamie_Aubrey

How else are they going to sell the next chapter

jle30303

Clockwork is *absolutely* a continuation of the Morrowind story. The whole point of the Morrowind storyline is

to use Vivec's stolen divine energy to open up the Clockwork City to attack and potential Daedric seizure - and though the initial attempt to seize it, by Barbas, not even Clavicus Vile himself, is thwarted, Clockwork is now revealed to the Daedra for Nocturnal to attack it, with Vile in support, at least through his Skaafin.

Summerset is less easily and less obviously linked to the two. Only two mentions of Summerset come, and one of those in a sidequest in Morrowind

in which Veya Releth is to be sent there, ostensibly to link up with Razum-dar and potentially earn some form of redemption after her crimes against House Redoran, her own family and the Morag Tong.

Other than that, there is only

Nocturnal's brag when she is defeated at Sotha Sil's throne, that "the Triad looms on Summerset's shores".

The third member of the Daedric Triad is not identified until the Summerset prologue, in which

the abduction of Oracle Marieve to Mephala's Spiral Skein reveals her as the third one. Mephala took little or no part in the attacks on Morrowind and Clockwork: although not named in Sotha Sil's Coldharbour Compact with eight major Daedra, she has her own relationship with the Dunmer by virtue of being one of their "Three Good Daedra" and also patron of the Morag Tong. However she is more than willing to act against Summerset until Nocturnal betrays the Triad and decides to continue alone... and it is revealed that the intended redemption arc of Veya Releth has been shelved, instead turning her fully into a Nocturnal cultist and major villain. It is perhaps appropriate that the Earl in service to Mephala, patron of the Morag Tong, dies in the crucial attempt to delay the one who betrayed the Morag Tong and then abandoned them to become Nocturnal's Earl.

Nord_Raseri

The awesome thing about the daedric triad arc is that each individual story could have easily stood alone and be good, while also all three fitting together quite nicely. As for the year long story method they've been on for the last four years, Elswyr was, to me, the only one that actually worked well.

Amottica

Iselin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo

I would carve out Clockwork City from Morrowind in your list.

Yes, to fans who played the single player version of Morrowind, there's a clear connection there but for those who haven't it's a somewhat related but also a completely different thing. It's not a continuation of the ESO Morrowind story as is the case for the chapters starting with Elsweyr.

True it is not a continuation like we see with the Year Long Story model, but there is a thread that connects Morrowind, CWC, and Summerset as I stated earlier.

Not being in the same light does not mean it is not there. It is also what led to the continued story.

Dragonlord573

Man I just wish we'd get some self contained and stand alone stories like with Wrothgar and Murkmire. I want the dungeons to stop being linked to the chapters and go back to telling their own separate stories too.

Lugaldu

I like the yearlong stories, but I find it unfortunate when the first part in the summer is too thin and the whole story feels artificially drawn out as a result (Greymoor gave me that feeling). Cliffhangers, well, at least it doesn't take too long for the ESO chapters to continue the story in the fall. I remember so well back then when I saw the first part of Lord of the Rings and then the movie was over leaving me back in disbelief "what, this is the end now and now I have to wait a whole year to continue?!"...

Iselin

Amottica wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

@spartaxoxo

I would carve out Clockwork City from Morrowind in your list.

Yes, to fans who played the single player version of Morrowind, there's a clear connection there but for those who haven't it's a somewhat related but also a completely different thing. It's not a continuation of the ESO Morrowind story as is the case for the chapters starting with Elsweyr.

True it is not a continuation like we see with the Year Long Story model, but there is a thread that connects Morrowind, CWC, and Summerset as I stated earlier.

Not being in the same light does not mean it is not there. It is also what led to the continued story.

I'm aware of the connection but that was a different type of connection. All three of those, Morrowind, Clockwork City and Summerset were self contained in the same way that vanilla zone quest themes are self contained.

Those 5 vanilla zones that we were all meant to level through were also connected thematically while having self contained zone stories in addition to the continuation of the main alliance story arc running through them. The vampire clan war theme in Rivenspire ended in Rivenspire.

The year long stories are different. The chapter and fall DLC don't just connect thematically they instead serve as two halves of the same story. That's a significant difference in my mind.

They are more like splitting Rivenspire into two zones and telling act one of the vampire storyline in one zone and then continuing with act 2 in the next zone.

Iselin

Lugaldu wrote: »

I like the yearlong stories, but I find it unfortunate when the first part in the summer is too thin and the whole story feels artificially drawn out as a result (Greymoor gave me that feeling). Cliffhangers, well, at least it doesn't take too long for the ESO chapters to continue the story in the fall. I remember so well back then when I saw the first part of Lord of the Rings and then the movie was over leaving me back in disbelief "what, this is the end now and now I have to wait a whole year to continue?!"...

Ha. And LOTR was an old fashioned trilogy. Just think of what I felt like reading the Wheel of Time books as they were released or now waiting for George R. R. Martin to finish writing his A Song of Ice and Fire series

Faulgor

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Man I just wish we'd get some self contained and stand alone stories like with Wrothgar and Murkmire. I want the dungeons to stop being linked to the chapters and go back to telling their own separate stories too.

Yeah. One of the reasons why Wrothgar and Murkmire are still my favorite stories Is that they are mostly separate from the rest of the game. Yes, Kurog's part of the Daggerfall Covenant, but that matters little. Both DLCs are just the story of a land and its people, no other Daedric machinations or far-off wars or some world-ending evil injected into it. Those are the immersive stories where TES has always excelled.

High Isle for all its advertising as focusing on Bretons has only done this to an extent, as the Alliance War, the alliance leaders, and their opposition - a nefarious cult, who could have imagined - play the main role. We were also promised some political intrigue, but there really wasn't.
Maybe in Q4? The year-long story structure with a cliffhanger chapter has shown the Q4 DLC story to be of consistently better quality, imo.

Narvuntien

I agree, it is pretty annoying. Now it was nice of ZoS to give us Deadlands for free so I could complete the story but for many people who don't have ESO+, it is basically leaving a story without an ending.

There is also the possible situation of a player joining later and starting one half of the quest without the second half and the story not making sense. Imagine doing the Deadlands quest without having met the ambitions or Eveli at any other point, but you just wanted to travel to the deadlands because its cool to you.

ZoS were able to make different but related expansions without cutting a story in half for Elseweyr and Greymoor they could do it again.

Sevalaricgirl

spartaxoxo wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

It's always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty.

What? Stories need varying lengths to work. If it feels forced then sure, but always a sign of incompetence or dishonesty??? I think it really depends on the story and the amount of bloat.

Exactly, it's like reading a book series or watching a Netflix series, want to see it all at once, wait until it's finished to partake. There is nothing dishonest about it.

phaneub17_ESO

Way better than WoW's "this baddie was just a pawn, there's a bigger baddie in control" next expansion! To be honest, I wished they did this with Summerset having a continuation in the same year instead of Murkmire. It's not that Murkmire is bad its just it felt like we should have had a year dedicated to Argonians rather than being an after story.

peacenote

I hate things being so formulaic. We liked the bigger story arc the first time because it was new and different. If they didn't do this going forward, every single year, in such a predictable manner, it wouldn't have started feeling so stretched out and boring.

Make the story, decide the story arc, and then determine whether it makes sense to be a whole year long or not. Deciding to always do it over a year actually limits the storytellers.