Accounts being suspended over appropriate names

Aislinna

SainguinKrist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Can I please get clarification on my name specifically?

It's technically a major NPC but my name is NOT a TES creation.

Will I have action taken against my account or it ONLY names that completely unique to TES?

I don't want to lose the name I've used for almost 2 decades because ZOS decided they own a word from the middle ages.

If you have concerns about specific character names, I would suggest submitting a ticket, quoting what Gina said here, explain the concern and ask for an official ruling about it.

Ratzkifal

Itoq wrote: »

I see a bunch of people jumping to emotional reactions based on partial information, not reading between the lines and not excercising critical thinking.

There is more information publically available than is permissible to show on the forums. The names in question are literally item set names and one lore friendly name that should definitely be allowed according to what Gina said for some reason. The lore friendly name might have been wrongfully included as the player also had another character with an item set name that wasn't on the list for some reason, so maybe that's where the confusion is coming from, but as Gina said herself, playing as Abnur Tharn or with an item set name is not allowed. Why? Would people mistake you for an NPC?
I'd say this warrants an emotional reaction, especially because there are so many edge cases like "Plague Doctor" and many players are sitting in the same boat and are just one report away from receiving a warning (or a ban if they too have a history).

Mik195

It seems puzzling that Gina Tharn would be fine, but Gina of Skyrim is technically in violation of the TOS.

Amottica

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p00tx wrote: »

There are players who intentionally report people for their names if they have a what they view as a negative encounter with them in-game, and if the name "violates" one of their heavy handed rules, instaban. It's a two part issue that needs to be addressed.

@p00tx

Gina clarified they do not ban anyone just because they chose a name that is against the rules. So there is no instaban because someone choose an improper name.

She made clear that a ban, even a suspension, only comes when they have a history of violating the TOS. Considering most of us have never had a TOS violation it would seem that someone who has run afoul of things multiple times is probably pushing things as far as they can and have one foot out the door as a result. Seems very appropriate.

Ratzkifal

Mik195 wrote: »

It seems puzzling that Gina Tharn would be fine, but Gina of Skyrim is technically in violation of the TOS.

I think they already realized this. Notice how the second time Gina explained things she didn't include location anymore, likely because a lot of people include a location in their names to denote their character's origin.

JoeCapricorn

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Thanks for the additional details, it eases my mind a little bit. Can you please clarify what happens if an account name has YT (YouTube) or TTV (Twitch TV), or matches a handle on those services? I've seen some of my favorite streamers get suspensions and bans over this and my Twitch handle matches on my characters (but doesn't mention YT or Twitch).

This also needs to be addressed. Those should not be grounds for a ban.

If someone had a name advertising some sort of actual goods and services - THAT is a ban. But it also is good to have two-way communication with someone, so if say someone was named Ronald McDonald and they responded that it is meant to parody the McDonald's corporation, in my view that should be allowable, and if the name comes in question again, that conversation should come up automatically to avoid any double jeopardy.

But someone who shares a handle with their Twitch profile? Someone that has YT or TTV in their username? NOT A BAN. Not even grounds to force them to change their username. Some people use those handles with gamertags or something I'm not entirely sure how that would appear in ESO on Playstation or Xbox but they can't be expected to change their whole handle for one game.

SimonThesis wrote: »

This practice is unfortunately pretty widespread. People have to change their names in an M rated game over anything that anyone could get offended by, this is an area that the report Karens have been winning for a long time. Even names with LGBT+ terms have received bans/ forced name changes recently.

This is an M rated game, but we can't have M rated names seems like ToS needs to be updated tbh.

Any examples of said terms, without getting into specific cases? I identify as quêer*, personally, and if the Q-word is getting players in trouble, it's a damn shame. Nothing grinds my gears more than LGBTQ intolerance, but I would hope that the company whose game has some of the best LGBTQ character representation in any video game would correct any mistakes related to false bans or false forced name-changes brought on by an LGBTQ term.


* As it is a part of my identity, the word is not a profanity, nor should it be filtered.

rpa

Aside: after returning from break I've been trying to /w officer of my old trade guild who had a LBGT&cet term in her @name and she never seems to be online. Oh well. I guess I need to figure out some basic Discord features instead to get back in trading. (I use Discord only if I can't possibly avoid it.)

FeedbackOnly

I just imagine one could abuse. Just report whoever you don't like and three strikes and they are out.

The lore names like these should not allowed in character creation.

p00tx

Amottica wrote: »

.

p00tx wrote: »

There are players who intentionally report people for their names if they have a what they view as a negative encounter with them in-game, and if the name "violates" one of their heavy handed rules, instaban. It's a two part issue that needs to be addressed.

@p00tx

Gina clarified they do not ban anyone just because they chose a name that is against the rules. So there is no instaban because someone choose an improper name.

She made clear that a ban, even a suspension, only comes when they have a history of violating the TOS. Considering most of us have never had a TOS violation it would seem that someone who has run afoul of things multiple times is probably pushing things as far as they can and have one foot out the door as a result. Seems very appropriate.

I did read her response, so I promise I'm not arguing with you about the validity of what you saw, but I can promise you that's not true. I know several people, myself included, who have gotten 3 day suspensions over first time offense name changes, and while I can't vouch entirely for the overall behavior of the others, I've never had an in-game violation before that, even after 7+ years of playing. I get in mild trouble on here a lot because I seem to lack the ability to shush up, but I'd be surprised if they used forum warnings as a metric for an in-game suspension.

JoeCapricorn

My entire disciplinary record amounts to one event stemming from something I posted on the forums. Going on 9 full years of playing, as I first started playing in the November beta.

RoseTheSnowElf

Sorry, can someone clarify for me; what is causing the ban/suspension?

- Someone's platform (PS, XB, PC) account name

or

- Someone's character name

I'm seeing some comments interchanging the words account and character.

Lord_Archaic

Could they be doing it as a Copyright infringement angle? Don't know how, they'd have to copyright everything in the game to do that.

Old_Foggy

Ratzkifal wrote: »

LiteEmUp wrote: »

Paralyse wrote: »

By the way, naming your toons after real people (celebrities, athletes, politicians, authors, etc) is also a violation, and subject to disciplinary account actions as well.

so what if i name my character Harry Potter, Magneto, Sorcerer Supreme, or even Scarlet Witch, are these bannable name choices?? what about from other games like master chief, geralt, yennefer, gordon freeman, are these bannable too??

i understand if you choose a racist, mysoginistic, or even sexual names are bannable... but zos needs to be clear on what else kind of naming are bannable...

Yes, those are not allowed because they are the copyright of others. Now J.K. Rowling could make an ESO character called Harry Potter, because she has the rights to that name but you are probably not her, so you do not. This however isn't bannable, it will just result in a warning and force a name change (unless you've already received prior warnings).
The other things you listed are also not allowed, but they might result in a ban depending on the severity and whether or not you have committed more offenses of that nature. There was this one incident where a group of people all dyed a certain robe white... It didn't end well for them regardless of whether they had a prior warning or not, I wouldn't be surprised when it comes to names of that nature things might be different and you'd get the immediate ban.

I don't get it there are real people named Harry Potter, how can such common names like Harry and Potter be copyrighted by someone ? I'm sure the books can be and are copy righted but not those common names, if I chose to change my real name to Harry Potter there is no law against it whatever J.K Rowling or anyone else thinks. The Books are copyright not the actual name Harry Potter.

honglatongla

Is it just me or is there no 6.1 in the TOS? https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
Or is some other document referred here?

Rowjoh

so many players in PVP still happily T-bagging away which is deemed offensive and bannable, yet a perfectly innocent character name gets a permanent ban?

etchedpixels

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Yes, those are not allowed because they are the copyright of others.

Names are not copyrightable. There are trademark laws controlling certain narrow uses of names but that is different.

A character may have sufficient creative content to be copyright protected but that is the character not the name. There are plenty of Harry Potters in the world and you can happily add more. If you go around creating Harry Potter characters who look/act like the story then that'll get you into trouble, but it's not the name - and in fact if you went and wrote a bunch of "Dave the Wizard" books that used the same basic character backstory/look/plot you'd get into trouble likewise.

Similar things happen elsewhere. A certain burger restaurant at one point sued a McDonalds chip shop - and lost because Mr McDonald was perfectly entitled to call it that. OTOH they won another similar case because in the second one they were using arches and other lookalike. Locally we also have a Mike Rowe Soft. They can't touch him either 8)

ESO however is a private product maintained by Microsoft, so they have pretty much total control of what they want to do with it and who gets to access it. They are bounded by contract law, hate law, race law, and in the Europe especially negligence and consumer rights rules but basically you are standing on their lawn. You either trust them to do the right thing or you don't.

And game accounts are the least of the problems - ask people who've suddenly had things like their Paypal account revoked, or their Google one, or Microsoft login account.

Grizzbeorn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Thank you very much for this, Gina!
I appreciate you!

essi2

SainguinKrist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Can I please get clarification on my name specifically?

It's technically a major NPC but my name is NOT a TES creation.

Will I have action taken against my account or it ONLY names that completely unique to TES?

I don't want to lose the name I've used for almost 2 decades because ZOS decided they own a word from the middle ages.

@SainguinKrist

Using someone else's IP as your character name is also a violation..

You may not select the name of another person, any third party's trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property

Jazraena

Pelican wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The point I was making was that it doesn't matter what the reporting player's motive was. If the player's name was seen as a violation the reporting player's motivation won't change that. ZoS isn't going to say "You made a name that we feel violates our ToS, but since the player reporting you did so out of spite you won't have to change the name or have any action taken against you."

I have read too many posts blaming the person reporting and stating that they are exploiting the player reporting systerm by reporting something they see as a violation.

A report made in bad faith that isn't questioned can result in things that should be allowed to be punished anyway...
Since I think this interpretation of the code of conduct is a bit too loose, the report alone could have resulted in this becoming an actionable offense when it previously wasn't.

Someone reporting something that isn't a violation won't change it into a violation just because it was reported. The player either violated the ToS or they didn't. But the person reporting what they see as a violation is not exploiting the system.

The code of conduct is pretty much left up to the individual's opinion and can vary depending on who is making the decision that day. That is why I think bans should only occur in extreme circumstances.

You see, I do not think it is that simple. Because prior to a report there is no need for a ruling, ZOS has the liberty to change their mind on a whim when a report does come in. I have a character name that could be considered a rule violation. It's a pun name, so that's why I would argue it should be allowed. If I asked a ZOS employee now if that name was allowed (prior to a report) I might get a confirmation that the name is in fact allowed. But if someone started reporting me for it, especially when it's a group of players mass reporting me, then ZOS might feel it's necessary to conform to "public opinion" and prevent outrage, drama and most of all bad publicity that would arise from having this absolutely evil name be allowed. For the record, the name is not actually evil, but I can see people claiming it is even though I disagree.

Tea bagging was considered fine, ZOS even made it an emote, until someone got reported for it and banned. Suddenly it wasn't okay anymore. Then ZOS had to come forward and explain that tea bagging is only not allowed when the player getting tea bagged doesn't like it and asked the other player to stop which they then had to have not done in order for it to become a violation...
It's easy to claim that the rules were always this way after the fact and since we do not know if they did their due diligence in any of these cases, we'll also never know how they came to the verdict they arrived at.
Now we all hope that ZOS did everything right, but at the end of the day they are only humans and humans make mistakes, so the uncertainty does leave a bad aftertaste in your mouth, especially because so many players feel they could be next.

Think about it, before today nobody would have thought a (hypothetical) name like "Plague Doctor Marcus" could be a violation of code of conduct, but now we know that it actually is for the use of the set name "Plague Doctor".

Yeah and now you cannot even teabag at all the player you do it to doesn’t even have to tell you to stop you can just get straight up banned with no warning had it happen to a few of my friends, even though in the past they literally said its only against TOS if the player you do it to feels harassed and asks you to stop but you keep doing. Seems like the “rules” are always easily manipulated to fit what they want to happen

Have you considered just... not teabagging? I mean, it's childish and rude in the first place, so it's rather hard feeling sympathetic here.

SainguinKrist

essi2 wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Can I please get clarification on my name specifically?

It's technically a major NPC but my name is NOT a TES creation.

Will I have action taken against my account or it ONLY names that completely unique to TES?

I don't want to lose the name I've used for almost 2 decades because ZOS decided they own a word from the middle ages.

@SainguinKrist

Using someone else's IP as your character name is also a violation..

You may not select the name of another person, any third party's trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property

Sanguine, the word I'm referring to, isn't Bethesda's or Zenimax's IP. It's nobody's "IP". The character Sanguine is their IP. These are two separate things.

The word is from the middle ages, French in origin. It's a descriptive word that can mean: optimistic, bloody, parasitic, and a few other things.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/sanguine

I'm not using anyone's "intellectual property".

I've used the name online since 2006.

luen79rwb17_ESO

I once met Abnur Tharn in Artaeum like 1+year ago. It was amazing how it was exactly the same as the NPC in every detail. I PMd and sent promps to the player. It must have been a big effort to achieve that. Too bad for that person this rule exists.

Ofc it's easier to ban players than fix the character creation system... And adding insult to injury, bear in mind that mostly it's dedicated fans and RPers that do this.

essi2

SainguinKrist wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Can I please get clarification on my name specifically?

It's technically a major NPC but my name is NOT a TES creation.

Will I have action taken against my account or it ONLY names that completely unique to TES?

I don't want to lose the name I've used for almost 2 decades because ZOS decided they own a word from the middle ages.

@SainguinKrist

Using someone else's IP as your character name is also a violation..

You may not select the name of another person, any third party's trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property

Sanguine, the word I'm referring to, isn't Bethesda's or Zenimax's IP. It's nobody's "IP". The character Sanguine is their IP. These are two separate things.

The word is from the middle ages, French in origin. It's a descriptive word that can mean: optimistic, bloody, parasitic, and a few other things.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/sanguine

I'm not using anyone's "intellectual property".

I've used the name online since 2006.

@SainguinKrist

It is not possible to copyright/trademark common words, so they couldn't protect 'Sanguine' even if they wanted to.

So you should be safe with Sainguin. If you were purposefully trying to impersonate Sanguine the Daedra, that would be a different thing I think.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We've removed some comments that were some back-and-forth, baiting and discussing disciplinary actions. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful with the Forum Rules in mind to avoid thread derailment or action on one's account.

Thank you for understanding.

SuicideRoach

So if ZOS decides to name an npc with the same name as a character I already created, does that get me banned also? (Edit, only part of the conversation loaded on the thread for me before I posted this)

Seminolegirl1992

I agree with many others who argued that it is odd to not allow naming of actual NPCs, places, item sets, bosses, raids, etc. I've seen recreations of Marvel heroes, Geralt of Rivia, recreations of in game NPCs, item sets, etc. I think those are amazing. What harm do they cause? I love coming across people's attempts at making a celebrity or fictional character. Or funny names. Or someone pretending to be a major NPC for rp reasons or simply because they want to represent a beloved NPC. If they're not trying to sell that content, where's the issue? I understand it's the rules but I don't understand why they're rules to begin with. It's obvious that player created Razum-Dars aren't the real NPC. And as someone else pointed out, all of our stuff is owned by ZOS anyway. We just pay to have access that can be revoked at any time. As long as names aren't bigoted in any way, I don't think there should be an issue. My personal opinion on the matter.

etchedpixels

SuicideRoach wrote: »

So if ZOS decides to name an npc with the same name as a character I already created, does that get me banned also? (Edit, only part of the conversation loaded on the thread for me before I posted this)

It might conceivably get you a polite message and a name change token, but to judge from what they let go in the game they'll probably not even notice, ever. I doubt they even know the names of all their NPCS as there are rather a lot!

silvereyes

honglatongla wrote: »

Is it just me or is there no 6.1 in the TOS? https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
Or is some other document referred here?

It's in the Code of Conduct document, not the Terms of Service document.
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct

The Code of Conduct is part of the Supplemental Terms that the Terms of Service cover, so it's correct to call it part of the Terms of Service as well.

Katheriah

LiteEmUp wrote: »

so what if i name my character Harry Potter, Magneto, Sorcerer Supreme, or even Scarlet Witch, are these bannable name choices?? what about from other games like master chief, geralt, yennefer, gordon freeman, are these bannable too??

They would have to ban the massive amount of Geralts and Yennefers out there. That would be too much trouble I guess.

Rogue_WolfESO

Naming your character after dungeons or sets is kinda weird, banning players because their name is a dungeon or set is just ridiculous.

Kiralyn2000

Aislinna wrote: »

If you have concerns about specific character names, I would suggest submitting a ticket, quoting what Gina said here, explain the concern and ask for an official ruling about it.

If you have concerns about specific character names (that aren't some sort of edgelord/slur/profanity-bypass), I'd say don't bring it to their attention. Because they likely won't notice it until something makes them notice it.

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Thanks for the additional details, it eases my mind a little bit. Can you please clarify what happens if an account name has YT (YouTube) or TTV (Twitch TV), or matches a handle on those services? I've seen some of my favorite streamers get suspensions and bans over this and my Twitch handle matches on my characters (but doesn't mention YT or Twitch).

This also needs to be addressed. Those should not be grounds for a ban.

If someone had a name advertising some sort of actual goods and services - THAT is a ban.

Personally, I'd consider "YT" or "TTV" to be advertisements for a for-profit 'good or service'. Which means it'd definitely fit your guideline for a ban. But that's just my opinion. /shrug