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BUG - Desktop Reset After Log Out - Explorer.exe Ticket# 220609-001799

Seravi
Seravi
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I just installed High Isle. When I log out my desktop disappears and then reappears. Why ZOS why?

We started with several browsers and programs not working a few months ago after an update. The game caused browsers to log you in and out of sites you had saved on your system and it messed with cooling fan software. No game should have that kind of access to MY data and system.

So there was "fix". The fix applied was to reset explorer.exe and you should NOT be doing this to fix what was broken before which hosed all of the programs like Chrome, Brave, Opera and Steam.

Seriously ZOS this needs to be addressed. You are intruding on our systems where you should not be. I run WIN 7 Ultimate. @ZOS_GinaBruno
Edited by Seravi on June 9, 2022 2:06PM
  • Dovahkiin02191973
    Dovahkiin02191973
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    Check the thread about this issue on the PTS forums. It is quite lengthy and you will get an explanation of why you have this bug. Read especially the parts of the thread that Tandor wrote as he knows the glitch and why it happens. ZOS didn't fix this after all the complaints were put on the table and it has now made it back to the live servers. I don't have the glitch as my Operating System is clean installed but I have a lingering effect of the patch that was supposed to fix the issue completely which is a frozen screen upon quitting the game for about 3 or 4 seconds. Before their fix my Explorer.exe was being shut down on the PTS. The original issue was on the live servers and affected everyone who used Windows 7 or an upgraded PC from Windows 7. My OS is clean installed so I never saw the issue on the live server but when they made a so called fix for it, it went to the PTS and then I got it. I too accused them of hacking my OS when it really isn't a hack. ZOS will not or has not as of yet explained to the players what this issue is. As I said they made a so called fix for it on the PTS but it still didn't work out right and now the problem has transferred back to the live server just as Tandor knew it would.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/603563/explorer-exe-restart-after-pts-quit#latest
    Edited by Dovahkiin02191973 on June 6, 2022 2:56PM
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Yeah I was one of the first group that encountered the browser issue. Having your "game hooks" in my system where they shouldn't be is not cool. Regardless of what they want to call it, the game decided what programs and browsers I could use and when they would let me log in and stay logged into a site.

    Now the game gets to decide what icons I get to have on my desktop because every time I log out of even at the game log in screen, my icons go "poof" and a mess of what I don't want to see is on my desktop. It kills off things I have in the system tray such as sound and my system monitor software and fan control software. Not cool!
  • Tandor
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    I've logged in and out on my Windows 10 machine that was upgraded from Windows 7, and as with the current PTS client quitting the game results in a brief black screen behind the "exiting" window before the desktop appears - wholly intact thankfully. They haven't addressed the problem with the PTS client at all. I'm leaving the game well alone on my Windows 7 machine (which has always run the game equally flawlessly until the last Update) for a day or two as exiting on that caused more issues if I remember correctly.
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Sadly WIN 7 is all I have for work, play and paying bills right now. I've stayed on 7 due to it's stability. I don't want to stop playing ESO but dang this is crazy.

  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ...anyone? This happens every time I log out of the game. It also kills my sound, sytem monitor software, cooling fan software and sometimes video. I am on WIN 7 Ultimate. Not cool guys...... :(


    The shell stopped unexpectedly and explorer.exe was restarted.

    - System

    - Provider

    [ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Winlogon
    [ Guid]
    [ EventSourceName] Winlogon

    - EventID 1002

    [ Qualifiers] 16384

    Version 0

    Level 4

    Task 0

    Opcode 0

    Keywords 0x80000000000000

    - TimeCreated

    [ SystemTime] 2022-06-07T14:28:46.000000000Z

    EventRecordID 25006

    Correlation

    - Execution

    [ ProcessID] 0
    [ ThreadID] 0

    Channel Application

    Computer None of ya business

    Security


    - EventData

    explorer.exe
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Just added my ticket number to the title. This really needs to be looked at. :(
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Tandor wrote: »
    By way of an update on my earlier post, I've now tried the the new Update on my Windows 7 machine. As with my Windows 10 machine quitting the game leads to the countdown followed by by a black screen with the exiting game message window and left margin headings visible over it, but whereas the Windows 10 machine then returns cleanly to the desktop with everything intact the Windows 7 machine returns to a blank desktop and taskbar with a short pause before the desktop and taskbar icons are returned with a loud ping.

    @ZOS_Kevin Is there any news on this please? Please note that it isn't only affecting Windows 7 machines but also Windows 10 machines that were upgraded from Windows 7. Does the team acknowledge the problem and is it working on it? Thanks.

    My machine is Win 10 upgraded from Win 7, still on the second release version except for security fixes etc. and I'm not having this issue at all (probably because I'm on some weird antique release version).
    Life is a journey, not a destination.
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Can someone PLEASE
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Sorry for the above. Cat jumped on desk. :)

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin I was asked by Bethesda Support on Twitter to put a ticket in and I did. I've had two responses. One was to explain my issue which I did in the original ticket! Second response I just received gave me links on how to update drivers. I don't need any flipping help updating drivers.

    What I need is for someone to take this seriously and help those effected by this issue! I attached my report.txt and that didn't seem to matter any at all. This is why I don't put tickets in...useless.....

    Ticket # 220609-001799
  • Castian
    Castian
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Hi all, wanted to touch base here. We are working on getting some answers right now. Just wanted to follow up so you all know this isn't being ignored. We've been tracking this and getting some confirmation on some things. So we'll follow up once we have all of the information to relay back to you.

    Thanks for the update. I was wondering if ESO broken for WIN7 as this reset occurs on my machine. Migrating to a new system has been difficult with covid supply chain - graphic card price gouging.
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Hi all, wanted to touch base here. We are working on getting some answers right now. Just wanted to follow up so you all know this isn't being ignored. We've been tracking this and getting some confirmation on some things. So we'll follow up once we have all of the information to relay back to you.

    Thanks Kevin!
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Seravi wrote: »
    Sorry for the above. Cat jumped on desk. :)

    I laughed, and then got sad. I miss my kitties. Love the dog, but cats are my real pals.
    Life is a journey, not a destination.
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Well support contacted me again. This time they want a Game Consultant report. Hello....I attached one to the original ticket I filed! So sending the report AGAIN!

    You have my ticket number. Could someone please get my ticket to a more caring level of support please?
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    They also think my system doesn't meet the game requirements. Really only been playing SINCE BETA.

    My OS: WIN 7 Ultimate 64-bit (Needs to be WIN 7 or higher)

    RAM: 32 Gigs (Needs to be 4 GIgs or higher)

    Using Direct X 11 (Needs to be Direct X 11)

    VRAM: 1892MB (Needs to be 1Gig)

    Yeah I think I meet the min requirements.....

    My gaming PC is a custom build.

    Asus X99-E WS (Intel X99 chipset)
    Intel i7-5960X CPU (Water Cooled)
    32GB RAM
    EVGA GTX980Ti Classified ACX 2.0+(SLI)
    850 EVO Pro OS & Game SSD drives
    SeaSonic Platinum Series 1200W PSU
    Windows 7 x64 SP1
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    Hi all, wanted to touch base here. We are working on getting some answers right now. Just wanted to follow up so you all know this isn't being ignored. We've been tracking this and getting some confirmation on some things. So we'll follow up once we have all of the information to relay back to you.

    Thanks for your response to this thread, @ZOS_Kevin, hopefully we'll get an update shortly.

    Meanwhile, are you aware that only some of your posts make it to Dev Tracker? Your post here, for example, isn't in Dev Tracker and I've noticed this before. Is there a reason for that? It rather diminishes the purpose and benefit of having Dev Tracker.
  • ZOS_Kevin
    ZOS_Kevin
    admin
    @Tandor I didn't want to place posts without concrete answers on the dev tracker. Thought it would be more helpful to have solid answers appear than "I don't have an answer yet.".
    Forum Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls Online
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    @ZOS_Kevin They just closed my ticket! Said to scan my drives for error and run a mem test. I already made sure it wasn't MY system when this started with 7.3.5 update.

    My system is fine and as usual they don't want to deal with a problem they created. This is why I don't contact support! My system did NOT create this issue and cause it to start killing off browsers and programs. Then the game wants to corrupt my system by restarting a process it should NOT be messing with.

    This is a KNOWN issue verified on THIS FORUM by Gina! I refuse to waste anymore of my time with so called Support. Yeah I am beyond upset right now because ZOS knows and has acknowledged it was something caused by an update so how is this MY system causing Explorer to crash when the game exits? Support still does not understand any of this and on the last reply when they closed the ticket I was told they could "understand" how I would be upset closing ESO crashed my computer. NO still no one has read what I typed as the issue. IT IS EXPLORER.EXE CRASHING DUE TO THE ISSUE WITH ESO CAUSED BY UPDATE 7.3.5 AND ANY "FIXES" TRIED AFTER THE UPDATE. Maybe someone can pass this on to Tanaka at support and they will then understand the problem and pass my ticket up the food chain to a dev???
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    @Tandor I didn't want to place posts without concrete answers on the dev tracker. Thought it would be more helpful to have solid answers appear than "I don't have an answer yet.".

    @ZOS_Kevin Thanks, but while I can understand that, I personally think it preferable that players get to see that an issue has been acknowledged. Much of the criticism relating to an apparent lack of communication comes down to "They haven't even acknowledged the issue exists" rather than "They're still investigating it?". I'm sure that many players, including me, check the Dev Tracker daily to see what's been commented on, and it's good to know that you're aware of a problem and looking into it even if you can't give a definite solution or timetable. You've no idea how much of a difference it makes just to know that you guys are aware of the problem :wink: !
  • ZOS_Kevin
    ZOS_Kevin
    admin
    Update: Hi Everyone, we want to follow up on the issue Windows 7 users are having with explorer.exe where it closes unexpectedly after quitting ESO. This is a known issue with Windows 7, related to necessary security settings in ESO. As a result of maintaining these security setting to protect players, this issue will continue to persist with ESO on Windows 7 for the foreseeable future. We understand the Explorer.exe issue is frustrating for ESO Players on Windows 7. However, it is paramount that we keep these security settings enabled in order to ensure a safe experience for all ESO players.
    Forum Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls Online
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
    Staff Post
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Thanks for the further response, @ZOS_Kevin . A couple of points if I may.

    First, what change came about security-wise that required this change to be introduced with Update 33 when it didn't apply before that?

    Second, in the light of this degradation in the player experience with Windows 7 and ESO, isn't it time you reviewed the system requirements on the website which still states that Windows 7 is the recommended Operating System?

    EDIT: As noted below, and mentioned many times here and elsewhere, it isn't just an issue for Windows 7 users. In my own case, and there are others clearly, it also affects my Windows 10 machine. It's totally messing with players' machines in ways no game should do, and the explanation is frankly inadequate given that we are being told it will continue to mess with our machines for the foreseeable future.
    Edited by Tandor on June 10, 2022 10:20PM
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Wow what kind of security is crawling into my system and killing a process it has no business messing with? Other users on 10 and 11 have seen this issue as well. This is crazy.
  • Pyr0xyrecuprotite
    Pyr0xyrecuprotite
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    @Tandor, I'm fairly sure that the "security setting" in ESO is something that was required for it to run on Windows 11, because of security improvements by Microsoft there. It's not appropriate for ZOS to have to make different client versions for older versions of Windows that Microsoft doesn't support anymore.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    @Pyr0xyrecuprotite , When were these security improvements introduced in Windows 11 which has been out for some 8 months or so now? This problem was only introduced to ESO in the last 3 months. Initially the problem related to compatibility between ESO and Chrome-related applications, and it was fixing that which introduced the current problem.

    I understand where you're coming from but it's a popular misconception that Microsoft no longer support Windows 7. They do, but not for free. Both business and home users can pay for ongoing support with monthly updates. In any event, this isn't a purely Windows 7 issue, it also impacts on some Windows 10 and 11 machines.

    Meanwhile, of course, Windows 7 continues to be listed as the recommended Operating System for ESO and while that is presumably an oversight on ZOS's part it is highly misleading and inconsistent for ZOS to be telling a group of players that the Operating System that they recommend for the game won't be able to run the game without serious issues "for the foreseeable future". In the absence of a fuller explanation the suspicion lingers that what is really meant is "We don't know how to fix it".
  • FeedbackOnly
    FeedbackOnly
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    @Tandor, I'm fairly sure that the "security setting" in ESO is something that was required for it to run on Windows 11, because of security improvements by Microsoft there. It's not appropriate for ZOS to have to make different client versions for older versions of Windows that Microsoft doesn't support anymore.

    That's technically not required for windows 11. Microsoft gives official way how to bypass this.
  • FeedbackOnly
    FeedbackOnly
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    code65536 wrote: »
    There's definitely something going on with U34 and the Windows shell.

    This crash can be hard to notice, since the Windows shell restarts itself after a crash and doesn't provide the user with any error messages.

    I initially just noticed it as the entire task bar redrawing itself. It wasn't until I checked the start times on the Explorer process that I realized that what had happened was that it had restarted itself.

    Technically the problem exists for everyone just not everyone is noticing according to @code65536
  • FeedbackOnly
    FeedbackOnly
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    I am using start11 on windows 11 and I can confirm my explorer.exe isn't restarting as I look at event log.

    I am using modified shell for my taskbar. I would try out trial for start11 this software works from 7 to 11.
  • Seravi
    Seravi
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    Tandor wrote: »
    @Pyr0xyrecuprotite , When were these security improvements introduced in Windows 11 which has been out for some 8 months or so now? This problem was only introduced to ESO in the last 3 months. Initially the problem related to compatibility between ESO and Chrome-related applications, and it was fixing that which introduced the current problem.

    I understand where you're coming from but it's a popular misconception that Microsoft no longer support Windows 7. They do, but not for free. Both business and home users can pay for ongoing support with monthly updates. In any event, this isn't a purely Windows 7 issue, it also impacts on some Windows 10 and 11 machines.

    Meanwhile, of course, Windows 7 continues to be listed as the recommended Operating System for ESO and while that is presumably an oversight on ZOS's part it is highly misleading and inconsistent for ZOS to be telling a group of players that the Operating System that they recommend for the game won't be able to run the game without serious issues "for the foreseeable future". In the absence of a fuller explanation the suspicion lingers that what is really meant is "We don't know how to fix it".

    WIN 7 was one of the most stable versions created. ESO says they support it and yes MS supports it as well, for a fee. @Tandor 's statement of "We don't know how to fix it" fits perfectly. IF and that is a big IF this was a security "fix" of some kind why didn't they say so in March? What caused the update to kill Chrome browsers and some programs? Why have the devs been trying to "fix this issue on the PTS for months IF it is a "new security feature"?

    I know explorer.exe is one of the places malware can hide and mask as a know good process. If we assume this is what ESO is trying to protect players from then why do you allow the process to continue until I log out of the game? Why wouldn't you stop it when I log in if this is truly the problem and you are trying to "protect" other players?

    Sorry ZOS not buying the excuse.
  • imno007b14_ESO
    imno007b14_ESO
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    @Tandor, I'm fairly sure that the "security setting" in ESO is something that was required for it to run on Windows 11, because of security improvements by Microsoft there. It's not appropriate for ZOS to have to make different client versions for older versions of Windows that Microsoft doesn't support anymore.


    It's not "required," and Windows 11 has only around 10% of the worldwide Windows desktop market share, compared to the 13+% that Windows 7 still has, and the 70+% share that Windows 10 has, so it's completely "appropriate" for them to have a client version that supports older versions of Windows.
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