On toxicity in general...

zaria

ZharaX wrote: »

I will join the other side as maybe one of the semi-toxic players, I have been playing this game since pre-release and doing the daily dungeons and have in a long time been a matter of getting throught them quickly.

My main run Sorcerer as 70% Healer / ~30% damage, and I admit I tend to run forward as bunch 2-3 groups together depending on the players levels I am teaming with, but I do not run like some others do ½-way through the dungeon and leaving the 3 rest of us to 'clean up'

I have never left any of the team without healing/support no matter the level they were playing, and never have I trolled anyone for the style of play, but still I must admit that the questing in vet levels can annoy me to a degree were I forget to keep slow paced...

Then on the other hand I feel the enjoy when 3 similar levelled (high) join and then we get the dungeon even faster done. So now I am propely a hated player

This, now I rarely pug anymore, but it was seldom more than group is trash and leaving. Left plenty of groups myself if seeing this will be hard and people don't respond in chat on no food and similar and its some dungeon who require some coordination like CoH2.
Now if they talk and are cool, well farmed scalecaller peak for Jorvuld’s Guidance, got an group where we had one 48 and two below cp 200, tank was real but not very sturdy or experienced, DD had some rotation but not much damage or experience.
Now this was before stickerbook so I could not use their gear anyway so after half an hour I said just do another random dungeon, no I did not need it but they did so we did and it was an smooth run.

DigiAngel

FWIW I've seen maybe 2 times where people were jerks in chat....the rest people are kind and civil. Playing since 2016.

DMuehlhausen

You're going to get this in every game once it's been out long enough s you get a group of people that have all those alts fully maxed with all the perfect items etc.

The biggest issue is the game is so easy though early on there is literally no reason to ask for help. Specially on PC where you can download mods that lead you to every single last little thing you need to interact with.

If you want to lower toxcity then the game should have been harder from the start, and be harder to solo later in the game.

Games like WoW where you could do a lot alone but you had to group with people to do some stuff out in the world with worthy rewards. You could be this over the to toxic person cause you could just get blackballed by the community. Same goes for games like EQ. Yes some classes could solo and those people were always the toxic ones, but for the most part the community policed itself and if you were a toxic player you would stay in areas looking for a group for hours or days cause nobody wanted to help you.

Make everything soloable and this simple nobody needs anybody else and so there is no sense of community or need to support each other for the most part.

FeedbackOnly

sarahthes wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Trials are controlled by by the high end toxic community. They decided what is right and what is wrong for the masses because they have the control

This is so untrue.

I am a trials trifecta enjoyer. When I lead a trifecta group, I tell them what to wear and where to stand and all that jazz, sure.

I also lead a core for brand new super casual raiders. I haven't even looked at the group logs since we started, and yet everyone shows up each week and we are having fun and clearing. The goal of that group is to get people invested so they consider progressing to harder content once our group is finished.

Sometimes they just don't even realize they are toxic or it gradually just always moves there.

Even if your groups an exception for now, eventually you will interact with the larger community of trial and find most of them are toxic. It's their way or there's no other option. It's but better but it will always exist while we don't have a trial finder

ZharaX

I must also point out that am not that kind of guy who leaves because of low levelled team, I actually personally take pride in helping others complete a dungeon in vet/HM no mater the level. It's only after impossible 10-20 end-boss deaths I might call it quits, and never have I quitted a group by just leaving without a notice (Those exist in abundance)!

Think about it... some of the fellow players, a leaver leaves behind might already been waiting in the 'Useless Queue System' for upto 30 mins already...

And as a side note...
Not everyone see a quick/rush as toxic, alot does actually enjoy it (anyways from reading their end-messages), this low as well as high levelled players too!

This, and
Hello -> ty4g/tyvm is a must, and as a just plain courtesy towards the community!

kieso

Toxicity is a pretty cool song imo.

🙃

sarbonn

Most people are generally pretty good in the game. Last night, I was doing a new dungeon (to me), and one of the players was CONSTANTLY harping on the dps for not doing this or that (some very specific chore in various different fights that you'd have to be very familiar with in order to understand the purpose). Instead of explaining it beforehand, he would throw a gasket after the result wasn't what he desired (even though that part of the mission ended up being successful based on the effort of the whole team working together). It reminded me that there are some really toxic players in the game that don't help others to become better but complain and cry because others aren't up to his standards of perfection. As this was becoming more and more annoying to play, the whole server seemed to go down and everyone got kicked out of the game. After everyone signed back on, the members of that group, minus the chronic complainer, decided to drop the group and go their own ways.

ZharaX

sarbonn wrote: »

Most people are generally pretty good in the game. Last night, I was doing a new dungeon (to me), and one of the players was CONSTANTLY harping on the dps for not doing this or that (some very specific chore in various different fights that you'd have to be very familiar with in order to understand the purpose). Instead of explaining it beforehand, he would throw a gasket after the result wasn't what he desired (even though that part of the mission ended up being successful based on the effort of the whole team working together). It reminded me that there are some really toxic players in the game that don't help others to become better but complain and cry because others aren't up to his standards of perfection. As this was becoming more and more annoying to play, the whole server seemed to go down and everyone got kicked out of the game. After everyone signed back on, the members of that group, minus the chronic complainer, decided to drop the group and go their own ways.

Totally agree. People tend to forget that by joining a team based content, they should expect or at least help the team they end up in. Cursing and Complaining only makes matters worse, if they can't cope it: Go solo and expect hours of fighting!

Dojohoda

I find people overall agreeable in the game.

Recently a person confessed to being entertained by typing things in zone chat to make others mad. All of the numerous comments made were political in nature. Is that toxic? In the past we would call that being a horse's behind.

sarahthes

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Trials are controlled by by the high end toxic community. They decided what is right and what is wrong for the masses because they have the control

This is so untrue.

I am a trials trifecta enjoyer. When I lead a trifecta group, I tell them what to wear and where to stand and all that jazz, sure.

I also lead a core for brand new super casual raiders. I haven't even looked at the group logs since we started, and yet everyone shows up each week and we are having fun and clearing. The goal of that group is to get people invested so they consider progressing to harder content once our group is finished.

Sometimes they just don't even realize they are toxic or it gradually just always moves there.

Even if your groups an exception for now, eventually you will interact with the larger community of trial and find most of them are toxic. It's their way or there's no other option. It's but better but it will always exist while we don't have a trial finder

I've played with literally the best players the game has to offer (on NA at least), including those who have held world records. They are genuinely friendly and helpful. I haven't seen much in the way of toxicity at all, and I say this as someone who does not play at their level.

sarahthes

Also - the thing you have to understand about the PvE endgame community is its incredibly small. We want it to be bigger. The last thing we want to do is scare off potential new raiders because eventually we won't have anyone to raid with if we do that.

We all just wanna play the game same as everyone who isn't in the endgame community.

Marginis

Oh there's plenty of toxicity in this game. I'll even admit to overdoing it on the snark sometimes.

But honestly, having been with ESO since the beginning, I'll say that regardless of the toxic players that are here, there isn't any game I've played with as many kind players, willing to help out a noob or answer a question.

I can't think of any other game I've played where I'll whoop someone's butt in a duel and they'll invite me to their guild and ask me for tips, instead of inviting me to a chat just to flame me.

I can't think of any other game where I'll just receive a random message complimenting me on my outfit.

I can't think of any other game that constantly has a post or two in the xbox LFG finder with experienced players offering to help new players out.

Yeah, ESO has toxic players, but ESO also has a ton of anti-toxic players that help balance it out better than most games, I think.

Solantris

Just commenting to add I'm happy that this sparked discussion and appreciate all those perspectives ^_^

WiseSky

I find it that when people are happy in RL they are not toxic.

It has nothing to do with games but more about their own Mental, Emotional & Physical States.

Nightowl_74

As a solo player I haven't really experienced the toxic side of ESO, but I assume it's there as it is in every MMO I've played. There are people who can deal with not getting what they want out of a situation, without belittling or berating anyone, and those who can't. The latter are the players I think of as toxic, whether their issue is being stuck/slow to no progress in a group instance or losing a resource node, boss, or whatever else, to some random person.

I think they probably react much the same way to setbacks in everyday life, in situations where they can without immediate repercussions. I'm sure the anonymity of the internet does nothing to help but most of us probably have that knee jerk thought of "hey that was mine" or "I did that correctly why can't he/she" in various situations, and curb it because it's not a productive line of thought. Nothing gets accomplished by that route. Some people don't, though. Their life mission would seem to be making sure everyone knows all about how difficult other people, from strangers to boyfriend/girlfriends and family, make their life.

Those are just my thoughts on toxicity, but generally I do the same in game as in real life. Avoid the worst, ignore the rest, and above all don't invite them into my guild/personal life.

Dragkiris

Vianca wrote: »

Originally posted over on reddit)

I've noticed a lot of (especially new) players discussing the level of toxicity that seems ingrained with high tier communities lately, and I just wanted to say... don't even worry about it man. I know it can be really daunting trying to upskill in the game when toxicity seems to run rampant in every category, but I just wanted to point out that not everyone is like that. While said [snip] are seemingly omnipresent, they're not, theyre just overrepresented. They generally have a lot more mental energy to devote to the game, both in PVE and PVP. They have a lot riding on it psychologically, so they end up at the ceiling and stay there, but there's a bunch of skilled players out there who still genuinely enjoy the game and would be happy to help out newer players. Most regular people with skill don't fixate on their in game accomplishments enough to lord them over anyone else, they just get them and move on, so you end up over time with a little noxious bubble at the top. Take your business elsewhere and tell them to put their parse/KDR on their resume, those people are just loud and proud.

Toxicity in MMOs is just the by-product of emotional dependence on the game itself and not an indicator of skill. We tend to forget about the other people sitting at the other end of the computer, but in reality there's a lot of really poorly adjusted adults out there just using the game to cope. Unfortunately, you see them more often in higher tier MMO communities simply because of the time and dedication it actually takes to get there: people who need that feeling of superiority (for whatever real life reason) are much more likely to have time and energy to invest on gaming. That doesn't mean that every high end community is toxic, just that a proportion of people who push that hard do it because they have a psychological need to feel relevant and not out of any love for the game itself.

As there is spread in real life, there is spread online. The average age of an eso gamer is 30, and people unload in game as an extension of the things they struggle with in real life. Everything from alcoholism to drug dependence to the various psychological things that all of us are running from in some form or another is represented. So yeah, when homie acts up, tells you to L2P or KYS or bags you for whatever reason, don't let it get under your skin. He's probably a maladjusted adult psychologically dependent on (and therefore protective of) his status as good gamer. It doesn't actually reflect his skill, just his desperate need to feel superior to someone- anyone.

If you're looking to push into higher end communities (whether it be pve or pvp) either look for other people at your level with similar drive in combination with established players who still enjoy the game or look for existing communities with positive reputations. There's plenty of well balanced people out there who push for their achievements and then either move on or stick around to share their knowledge, just as much as there are those who just... don't.

TLDR: MMO elitism is just an expression of emotional dependence and the player's need to perceive themselves as skilled/relevant. Don't let it get to you, homie with the bags has more riding on him killing you than you do, I promise. There are crappy people everywhere, but plenty of good, regular people also. Toxicity comes from the mental need to feel better than somebody, somehow, and it's something you should pity them for rather than be angered by. There are lots of normal human beings who achievement hunt and would be happy to help you

(Written by a long term player with stints in high end pve and pvp communities)

Edited for swears

I havent seen any toxicity. I have seen endgame players (PvE and PvP) be selective on who they let join their groups. This isnt toxicity, its just being selective because of how objectively "bad" the average player in this game is.

[edited to remove quote]

Kusto

People use the word toxicity too easily for everything. When you get kicked from dungeon, or left out from raid doesn't mean others were toxic. Every group has their standards and expectations. You simply didn't meet them. You can always make your own groups and set rules.

KaGaOri

Playing solo 99% of time, but will PUG dungeons almost every day. My experience is, that most players are normal nice people, but some are ... wouldn't say toxic, but odd. Recent PUG anecdote:

Went in normal shipwrights regret. Group loads in, everyone says hi and immediatelly vote kick window for the other dd pops up. It gets rejected. Tank asks "why?" in chat. Healer says: "cp too low". I check the group. The guy has roughly 280 cp. Thought it might be like 50, but like 280? Tank says: "we're premade", dd stays on, run goes totally fine, no damage deficit or anything.

Went in same dungeon on vet right after. Other dd says in chat: "first time", I say: "first time on vet". Healer makes inappropriate joke (yes, exactly that one) aimed at the two of us. Other dd says: "rude". Healer doubles down on the same joke for extra cringe. Tank tells him to knock it off. Healer informs rest of us: "it was a joke" and calls us bunch of *kittens*. Someone starts vote kick, it doesn't come through. Bit later healer makes another inappropriate joke, because someone wrote: "chest" in chat. Tank tells him to zip it and just run the dungeon. Another bit later healer starts rudely demand gear from the group and is finally kicked. We finish with different healer.

Come to think of it, never got completely normal group in shipwrights regret ever - that dungeon is cursed imo .