On toxicity in general...

Solantris

Originally posted over on reddit)

I've noticed a lot of (especially new) players discussing the level of toxicity that seems ingrained with high tier communities lately, and I just wanted to say... don't even worry about it man. I know it can be really daunting trying to upskill in the game when toxicity seems to run rampant in every category, but I just wanted to point out that not everyone is like that. While said [snip] are seemingly omnipresent, they're not, theyre just overrepresented. They generally have a lot more mental energy to devote to the game, both in PVE and PVP. They have a lot riding on it psychologically, so they end up at the ceiling and stay there, but there's a bunch of skilled players out there who still genuinely enjoy the game and would be happy to help out newer players. Most regular people with skill don't fixate on their in game accomplishments enough to lord them over anyone else, they just get them and move on, so you end up over time with a little noxious bubble at the top. Take your business elsewhere and tell them to put their parse/KDR on their resume, those people are just loud and proud.

Toxicity in MMOs is just the by-product of emotional dependence on the game itself and not an indicator of skill. We tend to forget about the other people sitting at the other end of the computer, but in reality there's a lot of really poorly adjusted adults out there just using the game to cope. Unfortunately, you see them more often in higher tier MMO communities simply because of the time and dedication it actually takes to get there: people who need that feeling of superiority (for whatever real life reason) are much more likely to have time and energy to invest on gaming. That doesn't mean that every high end community is toxic, just that a proportion of people who push that hard do it because they have a psychological need to feel relevant and not out of any love for the game itself.

As there is spread in real life, there is spread online. The average age of an eso gamer is 30, and people unload in game as an extension of the things they struggle with in real life. Everything from alcoholism to drug dependence to the various psychological things that all of us are running from in some form or another is represented. So yeah, when homie acts up, tells you to L2P or KYS or bags you for whatever reason, don't let it get under your skin. He's probably a maladjusted adult psychologically dependent on (and therefore protective of) his status as good gamer. It doesn't actually reflect his skill, just his desperate need to feel superior to someone- anyone.

If you're looking to push into higher end communities (whether it be pve or pvp) either look for other people at your level with similar drive in combination with established players who still enjoy the game or look for existing communities with positive reputations. There's plenty of well balanced people out there who push for their achievements and then either move on or stick around to share their knowledge, just as much as there are those who just... don't.

TLDR: MMO elitism is just an expression of emotional dependence and the player's need to perceive themselves as skilled/relevant. Don't let it get to you, homie with the bags has more riding on him killing you than you do, I promise. There are crappy people everywhere, but plenty of good, regular people also. Toxicity comes from the mental need to feel better than somebody, somehow, and it's something you should pity them for rather than be angered by. There are lots of normal human beings who achievement hunt and would be happy to help you

(Written by a long term player with stints in high end pve and pvp communities)

Edited for swears

[edited for profanity bypass]

KalevaLaine

Interesting post, thanks for the sharing.

I think this is a huge topic. I played 5 Years on PS and now 2 on PC, and I noticed several toxiv behaviors.

For me , I just try to be friendly. I say "hey" entering a dungeon, and "gg or goodbye" when we're finished.

Everyone can do some small things to create a nice and friendly community.

Solantris

KalevaLaine wrote: »

Interesting post, thanks for the sharing.

I think this is a huge topic. I played 5 Years on PS and now 2 on PC, and I notices several toxiv behaviors.

For me , I just try to be friendly. I say "Hey" entering a dungeon, and "gg or goodbye" when we're finished.

Everyone can do some small things to create a nice and friendly community.

You're very right friend. Little bit of kindness costs nothing ^_^

Xinihp

You are correct this type of toxicity stems from an emotional psychology tied to validation through in-game achievements upon which some personality types rest far too much of their real-world self esteem. This is further amplified by the relative anonymity of the medium, so there are few perceived consequences for bad behavior as in real world society.

However this is certainly nothing new. Consider this old gem for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGNGZ5LUyU

In my 8-year experience playing and modding ESO since beta, I have honestly found the community to be among the most kind, helpful, and mature out of any of the dozens of MMO's I have played.

It is entirely possible that new players are being corralled into certain "mainstream" communities via Discord, Twitch, and social media, which could largely be the problem. These communities represent a very small minority faction with a very specific goal for their investment in ESO. This largely revolves around getting stream views, which equates to REVENUE.

I highly encourage people to shop around for progression guilds that aren't focused on "world first" and Twitch stream capitalizing first and foremost. The vast majority of people playing are just like you. They want to explore the world of ESO and have a helpful group of like minded people they can turn to for support when it comes time to take on some of the more difficult challenges the game has to offer.

ESO is truly VAST, and the community that enjoys it equally so. Look past the small stand of trees burning at the edges of attention, and you might discover an entire forest of experiences.

Solantris

Brilliant comment Xini, exactly what I'm trying to say

FeedbackOnly

Trials are controlled by by the high end toxic community. They decided what is right and what is wrong for the masses because they have the control

deleted221205-002626

Its takes 2!!! there has been a vast increase in stress etc from being coped up for 2yrs with covid.. Everyone is on edge both those being toxic and those receiving it being overly sensitive, not to mention a serious lack of communication skills. Its not going to get better only worse and more bans and less players. Ban everyone! =p

Jaimeh

There's a lot of toxicity and elitism in the game, and people do use their accomplishments as a substitute for self-worth, and a tool to make others feel bad. It usually comes from younger, immature players, but it can be encountered in all age groups and in all kinds of game activities (even in something as innocuous as housing), but is most prevalent in end-game PvE and PvP. These are competitive playstyles, and tend to bring aggression and competitive behaviour out of people the most. Since the gaming community is a microscopic version of society (assuming all of society is well represented by the population in the game) then you can expect to find all sorts of behaviours within it, including pretty awful ones, that also get compounded by the anonymity of the internet and the aforementioned drive for competition. If you find an individual person/group like that, best to ignore and move on. The problem doesn't stop there though; on the complete opposite side lie the toxic casual players, which may seem like a oxymoron, but they also exist and they also do harm, in particular using new players as an excuse for their own complexes, instead of actually helping them in meaningful ways concerning vet raiding. The toxic elitist is more obvious but the toxic casual is more insidious, and they are both bad for the health of the gaming in the long term. Here is a video from class rep Nefas on the subject, who also recently started a program called 'project Vitality', a huge and coordinated effort to create vet training teams in a positive environment across all servers:

https://youtu.be/uQDtlizTdL8

Solantris

I actually hadn't seen that by nefas, thanks for sharing

Arthtur

Well i prefer to just call them toxic players because not only end game player are toxic...
There are toxic endgame players that will insult u in dungeons because u are weaker than the rest etc.
There are toxic PvP players. "This class is op. Nerf it to the ground. I dont care its the worst in PvE already" or insults u after u kill them etc.
There are toxic casual players. They will say that PvP should just die or that harder content should be removed or made a lot easier, insult u for being toxic when u try to help etc.
The worst one for me is overused "Play how u want". They will say that all the time and if they cant do something its because endgame players are gatekeeping content and dont let other players have fun...

Unfortunately the casual side in the ESO is a lot, lot bigger than other groups. So there is a lot more toxic ppl on the low end just because of amount of players. That's why ppl started to say "Toxic Casuals" are bad for the game etc.
Of course all those toxic ppl on all levels are bad for the game. But as i said, low end group is the biggest which is a problem as at this point its even hard to ask for anything harder. For example Vet Overland. There is a lot of ppl saying that ESO doesnt need to be Dark Souls... So as u can see when ppl ask for something harder those ppl make it look like we try to make this game unplayable for weaker players... But i dont want to talk about it more.

And why ppl are toxic?
There is a lot of options. Toxic streamers, their own greed, because they feel that they are better than others, because they are scared that they will lose something, because they dont understand, because they think that they are more important than others... There is really a lot of options and talking about it would be rly rly long.

I could say a lot about ppl blaming each other but that would be a long thread...
So i will say that:
Dont worry about toxic players. Just ignore them and have fun. Just remember if u are in group content that other players in your team want to have fun too. Its okay to have fun but not at the cost of other players.

deleted221205-002626

Arthtur wrote: »

Well i prefer to just call them toxic players because not only end game player are toxic...
There are toxic endgame players that will insult u in dungeons because u are weaker than the rest etc.
There are toxic PvP players. "This class is op. Nerf it to the ground. I dont care its the worst in PvE already" or insults u after u kill them etc.
There are toxic casual players. They will say that PvP should just die or that harder content should be removed or made a lot easier, insult u for being toxic when u try to help etc.
The worst one for me is overused "Play how u want". They will say that all the time and if they cant do something its because endgame players are gatekeeping content and dont let other players have fun...

Unfortunately the casual side in the ESO is a lot, lot bigger than other groups. So there is a lot more toxic ppl on the low end just because of amount of players. That's why ppl started to say "Toxic Casuals" are bad for the game etc.
Of course all those toxic ppl on all levels are bad for the game. But as i said, low end group is the biggest which is a problem as at this point its even hard to ask for anything harder. For example Vet Overland. There is a lot of ppl saying that ESO doesnt need to be Dark Souls... So as u can see when ppl ask for something harder those ppl make it look like we try to make this game unplayable for weaker players... But i dont want to talk about it more.

And why ppl are toxic?
There is a lot of options. Toxic streamers, their own greed, because they feel that they are better than others, because they are scared that they will lose something, because they dont understand, because they think that they are more important than others... There is really a lot of options and talking about it would be rly rly long.

I could say a lot about ppl blaming each other but that would be a long thread...
So i will say that:
Dont worry about toxic players. Just ignore them and have fun. Just remember if u are in group content that other players in your team want to have fun too. Its okay to have fun but not at the cost of other players.

They're likly like that IRL as well. What do you do when you encounter them IRL? call the cops? Is it really such a different thing online?

Gaebriel0410

I have encountered wayyyyy less toxic people in actual dungeons/pvp than I thought I would for years, judging by these (and other) forums. In comparison to other MMO's I've played ESO is quite a breath of fresh air in that regard.

Usually the obnoxious ones are also the ones who stand in the fire all the time and then go RES ME OMG while their corpse is still in the middle of some death swirl that no one can reach, so it ends up kind of funny.

But what surprised me most, is that I don't think I have ever encountered toxic players in pvp, I've been teabagged a few times here and there but I just assumed that was a compliment because I was hard to defeat or something haha.

So when I encounter muppets that drain the fun out of everything I just either remain super cheerful, or just call them out as rude.

xiphactinus

As soon as I get a whiff of anything I don't particularly care for I retreat and dwell on it for a few days but ultimately end up dropping whoever or whatever is annoying me like a hot brick. I've found more issue in guilds than anything and pvp coming in a close second. Plenty of folk out there like to put people down to make themselves feel better one way or another, Just seems an awful lot like bullying to me. Once I get past the "is it me or them" instance it's pretty much a done deal...bye bye! Luckily for me it has been just a few small experiences in an altogether fairly positive experience overall. I will say this though, I am very reluctant to group up now and prefer to solo this game as it just cuts out 99% of the issues instantly but the downside is that some content at the moment is unobtainable (for now). My generation of transmute crystals has taken the biggest hit though ditching daily dungeons and pvp but I'm doing just fine without tbh.

Sandman929

It's really no mystery, go on absolutely anything on the internet and you'll find a sea of people using the anonymity of the internet to ridicule, harass and insult other people.
I never seem to run into these super cool edgy folks out in the real world; only when they can't be curb stomped for being themselves.
Now imagine some of those people enjoy playing video games, and that explains game toxicity.

Xarc

Vianca wrote: »

Toxicity in MMOs is just the by-product of emotional dependence on the game itself and not an indicator of skill.

You're right, but,
from what I know (and I was kind of toxic by the past, playing with a lot of toxic players in pvp mostly), it comes when you reach a certain skill and have the feeling to play better than a majority of players.
There are many things generating toxicity :
- There is a frustration coming from "not to be able to achieve something" and the fact you 're personnaly persuaded that it is not your fault and you do not deserve to fail, because all the time you passed into the game. It can be because of lag, because of ZOS, because of players playing this way or this way, playing together and you're alone, etc. It is not your fault, you think you're better, it makes you angry and toxic.
- there is another toxicity coming from the fact you're still persuaded to be part of an elite. You do not accept to play with mediocrity. It's a terrible thing but a sad reality. I've met some players in dungeon who rushed it and who did not accept to be slowed by new players.
- and there is a toxicity coming from the toxicity. Some people have been toxic toward you, so you become toxic.

Well we're playing a game which mix new players and high levels, we all have to deal with it and above all, do not forget this is a game
When you 're noticing you're toxic :
just relax, have a break, stay calm and all will be fine.


(sorry for my english it's not my native language)

deleted221205-002626

Everyone is a psycotheropist! Anything can cause negative emotions and conversation!

- Headache
- Loss of family or friend
- Work related stresses
- EX_Wife related stresses haha
- The weather
- Hunger / Hormones
- THAT time of the month

Everyone needs to be banned!

Holycannoli

Any adult that's acting toxic in a game has issues.

If I had a bad day at work or something I don't log in to a game and act toxic, I act silly. I'll do dumb emotes in Auridon or something and try to amuse people. A good laugh does wonders.

That said, I haven't found many toxic players in ESO. Sure sometimes my DPS isn't all that great because I'm not optimally geared or I don't have my rotation memorized fully but it doesn't lead to toxic behavior - so far anyway.

The anonymity and remoteness of the internet breeds toxicity though. It comes with the territory. If you've been around it long enough it doesn't even phase you anymore. You expect it.

Arthtur

sinnereso wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Well i prefer to just call them toxic players because not only end game player are toxic...
There are toxic endgame players that will insult u in dungeons because u are weaker than the rest etc.
There are toxic PvP players. "This class is op. Nerf it to the ground. I dont care its the worst in PvE already" or insults u after u kill them etc.
There are toxic casual players. They will say that PvP should just die or that harder content should be removed or made a lot easier, insult u for being toxic when u try to help etc.
The worst one for me is overused "Play how u want". They will say that all the time and if they cant do something its because endgame players are gatekeeping content and dont let other players have fun...

Unfortunately the casual side in the ESO is a lot, lot bigger than other groups. So there is a lot more toxic ppl on the low end just because of amount of players. That's why ppl started to say "Toxic Casuals" are bad for the game etc.
Of course all those toxic ppl on all levels are bad for the game. But as i said, low end group is the biggest which is a problem as at this point its even hard to ask for anything harder. For example Vet Overland. There is a lot of ppl saying that ESO doesnt need to be Dark Souls... So as u can see when ppl ask for something harder those ppl make it look like we try to make this game unplayable for weaker players... But i dont want to talk about it more.

And why ppl are toxic?
There is a lot of options. Toxic streamers, their own greed, because they feel that they are better than others, because they are scared that they will lose something, because they dont understand, because they think that they are more important than others... There is really a lot of options and talking about it would be rly rly long.

I could say a lot about ppl blaming each other but that would be a long thread...
So i will say that:
Dont worry about toxic players. Just ignore them and have fun. Just remember if u are in group content that other players in your team want to have fun too. Its okay to have fun but not at the cost of other players.

They're likly like that IRL as well. What do you do when you encounter them IRL? call the cops? Is it really such a different thing online?

I just ignore them irl. Not worth my time to talk to them.
Yes it is diffrent. Sure, u can just walk away in game but not on the forums.

When i see ppl being toxic in zone chat i just ignore it or turn off the chat.
But on the forums...
U cant ignore them when they jump on u. Like lets say u talk about "Vet overland". U wrote an idea that will be good for everyone and there is a person jumping on u saying that u want make ESO like Dark Souls. Sure you can ignore it but u cant run from it. That person will keep doing it making it look like ppl want to make ESO unplayable. How new person to the thread will react when the first thing They see is title of rly hard game?
Like i was taking part in this Vet overland thread and what? I left after i got too mad at person saying "Just leave the game". Could i ignored it? Maybe. But im a human. There is a limit to what i can ignore.

So yeah, for me its rly diffrent. And dont get me wrong, i have no problem with backing off when i have diffrent opinion. Its just hard to talk when other ppl dont accept your opinion and are trying to force theirs on you.

vibeborn

I didn't play multiplayer games with other people other than my brother for years due to constantly encountering people who didn't tell me to "get good" but instead told me to "stop playing" and while I shouldn't have let other people tell me what to do, my mental health was deteriorating, so I didn't have the capacity to tell people to mind their own business.

So I wasn't keen on playing ESO at first because of it being a MMO, and because I was afraid of the people I could meet.

But luckily I was proven wrong, ESO has (for me at least) been one of the best game communities I've encountered (especially taken its size in consideration, since all the other great communities I've encountered have been from small games)

And I'm not even a good player. I can't do high DPS, my cognitive disability makes me unable to follow instructions related to vet DLC dungeons or trials, and I'm terrible at PVP, but I don't feel unwelcome, I just don't usually do those things on my own accord

I like ESO because it gives bad players like me a chance to enjoy the game, because of the vast options there are. Instead of doing end game pve/pvp, I just do quests, crafting, and collecting mats, digging up treasures and antiquities instead, and while some people might think I'm weird for not doing end game I'm no longer afraid to tell people to mind their own business. Luckily nobody has thought it's weird I don't do end game so no harm has been done in the first place.

Have I been kicked from groups or have been told to "get good" yes, but will I ever see those players again? highly unlikely
so I don't worry about them

sarahthes

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Trials are controlled by by the high end toxic community. They decided what is right and what is wrong for the masses because they have the control

This is so untrue.

I am a trials trifecta enjoyer. When I lead a trifecta group, I tell them what to wear and where to stand and all that jazz, sure.

I also lead a core for brand new super casual raiders. I haven't even looked at the group logs since we started, and yet everyone shows up each week and we are having fun and clearing. The goal of that group is to get people invested so they consider progressing to harder content once our group is finished.

Agenericname

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Trials are controlled by by the high end toxic community. They decided what is right and what is wrong for the masses because they have the control

Ive always thought this was an odd sentiment. This is a legitimate question, how does a group of people dictate what the masses do?
By that I mean, they cant actually stop you from finding 11 other people and running anything you want, however you want to run it.

EozZoe1989

yes alot of solo and toxic people now and then but not all the time ..

Tra_Lalan

IMHO most of the toxicity that people are complaining about here and there is just some subjective view on things that are normal, and mostly not toxic. People nowadays are very hypersensitive, someone feels bad about something and the first thing he does is shouting about toxicity, or reporting a player for whatever reason. There is no self reflection in the middle of that action, he isn't trying to understand other players point of view, just fires up because he felt bad.

As for an example: Just today I've seen players calling other players toxic because they used the new weapon arms pack and its flashing effect. So a player buys a cool looking thing, starts playing with it, checks how it works and he is beeing called toxic for flashing effects.

MMO is a game where you meet other people, their views and needs are different than yours, just like in real life, that is a normal thing. We should always remember about that and try to put our selfs in the other players shoes.

here is another example:
Someone tells you that you should work on your dps
you feel bad because in a way he said that you are no good, you call him toxic.
the other route is: you check if maybe the player was right? You realise that 6k isn't good, and learn how to become better. You can do harder content and feel better about yourself.

Xarc

@tra_lalan you're right about some abuse. The society has become hypersensitive in general, it's not only on videogames.

Mushroomancer

I don't really know how to feel about this post. I wouldn't say it's wrong per se, but I think it is a bit simplistic. I will tend to agree on the fact that people with a noticeable emotional attachment or investment to the game will most likely express much more pronounced behaviors, and no doubt some people are toxic because they feel a need to establish superiority, no matter how ultimately irrelevant it is in the grand scheme of things (it's still a silly game about fantasy races after all). However, I don't think that's the only reason. People that act toxic might do so because they had a bad day and have an aggressive way of coping with it, which the anonimity granted by an MMO only serves to facilitate, or they might be burnt out on the game and just tend to find most things anyone else does annoying just by virtue of those things happening in the game, or they might engage in toxic behavior for any variety and mix of reasons.

Also I don't think that "toxicity equals skill" is a very widespread belief, so it feels weird for you to mention it. If anything it's people of mediocre skill (myself included sometimes) which I've seen exhibiting a toxic behavior much more often, most likely due to the fact that they are aware of having at least some skill but also that they are being held back from achieving what they want by something; whether they believe that something is part of their attitude/playstyle or other players/circumstances is up to attribution, and of course, we're naturally biased to attribute our shortcomings and failures to external factors, so add that to the reasons why people might be toxic.
I think this also works in reverse. As you say, some people are toxic because they play the game not because they love it, but out of some psychological need (which again, I don't think the only need one might have to keep playing the game that way is for superiority); I think this "loveless approach" to the game is also what hinders many of those players from bettering themselves both at the game and in their attitude, so it sort of creates a feedback loop wherein you get more and more toxic. And I've seen this happen to myself, which is why I'm taking a break from the game. Even though I wasn't even playing that much anymore, I was logging in just to do trials and that made me hate the game, and just got me pissed off whenever I did. Of course, I realized it just wasn't worth it, but it took a while, and not everyone might be able to. This is just to respond in a way to @Holycannoli, just because that's the approach you take, it doesn't mean anyone that doesn't follow suit has issues, everyone has their way of dealing with ***. If that behavior is protracted for a long time, then I'm willing to agree, but considering that most comments here seem to be talking about toxic encounters with randos, how do you even know if that's what they always act like?

I'm also pleased to notice that someone already pointed out how this is not just a "high-end" issue. Again, toxicity is present at all levels of play; in my opinion, it mostly has to do with how you approach the game, even if you haven't put much of an emotional investment into it. Even though it might not be as blunt as telling people to unalive themselves, getting pissy because I pointed out you're only using LAs on your bow, living the stealth archer dream in veteran Depths of Malatar at the orb boss, while I'm getting my ass destroyed by empowered aurorans is toxic too, I'm sorry it just is. I get you want to "Play how you want®", but when you're actively disrespecting other people's time and getting mad because someone might have suggested that you are not playing up to the lowest available standard, you are being toxic, period.

Also, as kind of a P.S., I gotta ask, are the "KYS" comments from PvP experiences? Because even at the times when I played all day everyday (lockdown was a ***), I've seen plenty of toxic comments from all kinds of players in PvE, but never to the extent of instigating suicide or self-harm. PvP on the other hand... Boy, sometimes Cyrodiil is just a ball of unadulterated frustration and sweat.

Quick edit to respond to a couple of comments I think are notable

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Trials are controlled by by the high end toxic community. They decided what is right and what is wrong for the masses because they have the control

I don't know what you are on about. In what way exactly is a whole kind of content controlled by this shadowy "high end toxic community"? This just sound like conspiratorial hogwash from someone who has either been burnt by some better, and most likely more polite players, or who doesn't even know what the icon for a trial on the map looks like. Just stop, painting trials as some exclusive, unfathomable content which you can't partake in unless you follow the almighty meta is just adding to the toxicity surrounding the environment. With comments like these, no wonder newbies are biased against trials, they probably think the Cabal of the Endgame Players is gonna get them unless they conform to the absolute highest level of optimization.

sinnereso wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Well i prefer to just call them toxic players because not only end game player are toxic...
There are toxic endgame players that will insult u in dungeons because u are weaker than the rest etc.
There are toxic PvP players. "This class is op. Nerf it to the ground. I dont care its the worst in PvE already" or insults u after u kill them etc.
There are toxic casual players. They will say that PvP should just die or that harder content should be removed or made a lot easier, insult u for being toxic when u try to help etc.
The worst one for me is overused "Play how u want". They will say that all the time and if they cant do something its because endgame players are gatekeeping content and dont let other players have fun...

Unfortunately the casual side in the ESO is a lot, lot bigger than other groups. So there is a lot more toxic ppl on the low end just because of amount of players. That's why ppl started to say "Toxic Casuals" are bad for the game etc.
Of course all those toxic ppl on all levels are bad for the game. But as i said, low end group is the biggest which is a problem as at this point its even hard to ask for anything harder. For example Vet Overland. There is a lot of ppl saying that ESO doesnt need to be Dark Souls... So as u can see when ppl ask for something harder those ppl make it look like we try to make this game unplayable for weaker players... But i dont want to talk about it more.

And why ppl are toxic?
There is a lot of options. Toxic streamers, their own greed, because they feel that they are better than others, because they are scared that they will lose something, because they dont understand, because they think that they are more important than others... There is really a lot of options and talking about it would be rly rly long.

I could say a lot about ppl blaming each other but that would be a long thread...
So i will say that:
Dont worry about toxic players. Just ignore them and have fun. Just remember if u are in group content that other players in your team want to have fun too. Its okay to have fun but not at the cost of other players.

They're likly like that IRL as well. What do you do when you encounter them IRL? call the cops? Is it really such a different thing online?

I highly, highly doubt people who act toxic in-game would have the same behavior IRL. They might have the same way of thinking, but the situation is wildly different. Anonimity removes the biggest barrier to acting batshit insane everytime, which is inhibition. With no people physically around, you have no one who will make a lasting judgment on your behavior, so why should you care? IRL, you might not care about what a random passerby may think, but I don't think you would act all pissy and crazy in front of people with whom you have an actual relationship and somewhat of a reputation as a well-adjusted person to uphold. Then again, that requires those people to have human relationships, which might not always be the case.

robwolf666

On toxicity in general... Probably primary reason I haven't got involved in the "social" side of ESO - guilds, groups etc - for over 3 years, and especially avoid PvP/Cyrodiil/IC. I'm perfectly happy doing everything I like solo.

Ttree

its a game i have to say i haven't seen to much of this and tbh its a life thing there will all ways be [snip] every were in life, and in game as well just smile inside and know YOU are a better person!!!!!! end off it dont stress it

[edited for profanity bypass]

OolongSnakeTea

Love this thread, and discussion. Much needed breath of fresh air.

Was curious where the data on the game's age groups would come from? Or just personally tally of experiences? It'd be interesting to see age group data in other MMO's (GW2, SWTOR, New World, ect ect) - and how that would compare to the type of toxicity that a player could expect to possibly experience (such as a vocal minority).

I find that elitism is ageless however, and a 'learned' behavior. At any point someone will have a personal bias; it's how we emotionally work through that bias and treat others around us that is a sign of maturity.

DagenHawk

Jaimeh wrote: »

There's a lot of toxicity and elitism in the game, and people do use their accomplishments as a substitute for self-worth, and a tool to make others feel bad. It usually comes from younger, immature players, but it can be encountered in all age groups and in all kinds of game activities (even in something as innocuous as housing), but is most prevalent in end-game PvE and PvP. These are competitive playstyles, and tend to bring aggression and competitive behaviour out of people the most. Since the gaming community is a microscopic version of society (assuming all of society is well represented by the population in the game) then you can expect to find all sorts of behaviours within it, including pretty awful ones, that also get compounded by the anonymity of the internet and the aforementioned drive for competition. If you find an individual person/group like that, best to ignore and move on. The problem doesn't stop there though; on the complete opposite side lie the toxic casual players, which may seem like a oxymoron, but they also exist and they also do harm, in particular using new players as an excuse for their own complexes, instead of actually helping them in meaningful ways concerning vet raiding. The toxic elitist is more obvious but the toxic casual is more insidious, and they are both bad for the health of the gaming in the long term. Here is a video from class rep Nefas on the subject, who also recently started a program called 'project Vitality', a huge and coordinated effort to create vet training teams in a positive environment across all servers:

Yes ask me about my Toxic Casual agenda....

ZharaX

I will join the other side as maybe one of the semi-toxic players, I have been playing this game since pre-release and doing the daily dungeons and have in a long time been a matter of getting throught them quickly.

My main run Sorcerer as 70% Healer / ~30% damage, and I admit I tend to run forward as bunch 2-3 groups together depending on the players levels I am teaming with, but I do not run like some others do ½-way through the dungeon and leaving the 3 rest of us to 'clean up'

I have never left any of the team without healing/support no matter the level they were playing, and never have I trolled anyone for the style of play, but still I must admit that the questing in vet levels can annoy me to a degree were I forget to keep slow paced...

Then on the other hand I feel the enjoy when 3 similar levelled (high) join and then we get the dungeon even faster done. So now I am propely a hated player

Androrix

Great thread.

I haven't seen too much of this, but I mostly solo and don't do PvP.

Shortly after I started the game I died fighting a WB. I did not have a soul gem, and so respawned at the nearest wayshrine. Another player must have noticed and sent me 200 soul gems and some gold and a message saying I did great. That left such a good impression on me, and I try to pay it forward every time I play. There is some elitism, but I have found most senior players really do like to help.

Strangely, the most toxicity I have seen in zone chat has been in early zones like Auridon.