Champion Point survey

rabb1t_ESO

Hey everyone. Recently I've had... certain feelings towards C.P. 2.0 as we are nearing its anniversary. (I'm pretty sure it was about a year ago. ) I may be an outlier on these feelings, but I thought I'd throw together a survey to see what other people think, and maybe hopefully the site will let me do some correlational analysis of data at least to some degree. If we get enough responses hopefully it will get ZOS's attention and they can use the data to compare to their own predicted expectations of the system.

I'm only a free person on the site, but I don't see any forced close time, so I was thinking of keeping it open through to the end of the month (so, close on May 31st). That way everyone should have enough time to get the word out and do the survey if they wish.

Thanks for peeking at it.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8DYKN3V

(PS; I go into some detail in the survey about my history, but in short I've been gaming since Pong, doing MMOs since EverQuest in '99, been in ESO since just about launch, and have basically been maxed on cp up until C.P. 2.0. I also have a Bachelors in Psychology/Sociology focusing on small groups and relationships.)

redspecter23

It may have been a good idea to include an option for 3600 cp as I answered that I earn less than 1 cp daily (zero actually), but that I feel it is a good rate. Answers from an outlier player may skew results, but it may be so few it won't matter much.

rabb1t_ESO

Yeah I thought about it, but from what I've seen in random dungeons even those over 1600 seem exxxtreeemmmely rare. Thanks for answering.

freespirit

The rarity of over cp1600 players in random dungeons may be a symptom of the current system tbh.

I have just shy of 1900 and I rarely if ever do randoms, I also have given up even assigning my points, I literally cannot find stuff to assign them to.

Admittedly I don't play multiple rolls on one character, instead I have characters for specific roles. However if I take a look at the rosters of my 3 busiest guilds I would estimate at least 75% of the members are over cp1600. 😃

Amottica

I don’t know what the pill is about as myself, like many others, do not follow links from the forums to third party sites. This is even more likely given the vagueness about what to expect with the poll.

Probably a poll built into the forums would generate more interest.

rabb1t_ESO

freespirit wrote: »

However if I take a look at the rosters of my 3 busiest guilds I would estimate at least 75% of the members are over cp1600. 😃

That's opposite of mine, I'd say maybe 15% are over 1200. (Though it's pretty tiny, only about 15-25 on at a time.)

freespirit

All three guilds are always at 495-500 members with always 100+ members online at any given time.

It is quite noticable that the guild aimed more towards newer players will have more request's for random dungeon groups than the other two.

They have more requests for vet trials or specific vet dungeons for gear or quite often from people chasing leads. 😀

rabb1t_ESO

Amottica wrote: »

I don’t know what the pill is about as myself, like many others, do not follow links from the forums to third party sites.

Survey Monkey has been around for a while and is a trustworthy site that people use for... well, surveys.

This is even more likely given the vagueness about what to expect with the poll.

You can look at it and answer or not. Most connections should load the page in about 2-4 seconds. If you (a survey giver) are to get true responses you can't give too many details, especially your personal thoughts before a respondent takes the survey.

Probably a poll built into the forums would generate more interest.

It might, but there would be no way it would be able to corelate data between questions. This is necessary to prove hypothesis.

Ex hypothesis; players with higher cp who get 1-2 cp gain per play session are more likely to answer negatively in question 8.

FeedbackOnly

The cp 2.0 anversity was update 33 time not chapter time.

Past cp 1200
Now cp 1900
Goal cp 2000 by end of year

Amoury assistance I bought for PvE and PvP builds for characters, especially warden. I don't think I ever used the Amoury assistant for cp stars. I guess I might of I swap between pvp and PvE builds

I like dungeons and non dm battlegrounds so I will never have to worry about cp gain. I nearly 200 xp scrolls


Note: Enlightenment stacks up to 12 days too. Explorer event stacks with holiday xp and xp scroll

Khenarthi

I have 2400+ CP at present, and yes CP gain is extremely slow, but at this point I think I have way more CP than I'll ever need. Maybe because I have different characters for different roles and playstyles, so I only use the home armoury as a free skill/attribute/CP reset.

I'll usually do one RND (just one, on my favourite tank), daily crafting writs on most of my characters, then quest on whatever character I feel like playing that day. Which gets me around zero to one CP a day.

For me the BIG xp boosts will happen during double XP events, where my crafter will consume those 150% XP scrolls that sometimes are given as login rewards, and use up the Master Writs that have been accumulating since the last double XP event. Again, not that I need the CP... but it's nice seeing that number grow, for once XD.

Edit: clarification that it's one daily RND, that's it. 15 to 30 mins and enlightenment is used up, so that's almost half the CP progress bar.

dmnqwk

Hi there,

I attempted to fill in your survey, but it's just terrible in terms of allowing the correct choice...

Questions 2 and 3 combined lack flexibility to allow me to answer it in a manner I feel comfortable.
I created an account in beta, played 6 months in 2017 and returned january, playing since. None of those options really allow me to answer.

Question 4 is fine, but honestly why put so many brackets to gain exact 5 hour intervals of playtime? Perhaps these could more engaging if there were
0 - 1 hour a week
1 - 5 hours per week
5 - 20 hours per week
21 - 50 hours per week
50 hours +

Questions 5 and 6 are fine, since they are linked and there to provide you analysis of whether the increase curve affects people's opinions of CP at higher cp and if they become disparaged or not.

Question 7 is... weird in that you understand the purpose of increasing the brackets but failed to use that principle earlier in Question 4. Also neglects to include the fact someone may answer they play 10 hours per week, but spend most of it levelling alts.

Question 8 should NOT have so many 'tick these boxes' options and nothing else. None of these apply because my answer would be 'Now that I am over 800 cp I don't focus on earning them at all while I'm doing other things like Master Angler or Cadwell's Gold.

Question 9 is good, but the link to 10 has no answer appropriate because you're too busy trying to specifically force us down the road you wish us to answer with. I would like to say 'I got 1 armory slot and the assistant purely so I can switch on my warden, who is a tank most of the time but does stamden too'.

Overall I don't mean to be disheartening, but you said you have a psychology degree and you're really trying to force people to answer in a way that serves your purpose, not to actually generate usable information!!!!! Please don't be so manipulative and use more open-ended options, or allow a rating scale of 1-5 for options for questions you directly wish to ask (for instance... I feel it's fun to earn points).

Austacker

I find the CP grind to be pretty much worthless after about 1200 CP

There's FAR too much 'fluff' in the CP tree designed to be 'options' but in reality is shallow filler you'll never really use.

Not saying World of Warcraft is perfect at all (in fact, in many ways it's very much inferior to ESO) but at least in that game the progression model makes a LOT more sense, is simple and streamlined.

It makes it easier to balance and FAR less confusing in developing a build for.

In ESO it's SO EASY to make a build that's completely ineffective / inferior to many builds out there as there's a number of key skills which has a power level way above other skills & tree options.

In short, I utterly hate the skill tree & champion point system in this game.

It's confusing, bloating, fluff filling trash made to make people think they have 'so much flexibility' but ultimately just creates a confusing mess designed to make more 'busy work' for players to keep grinding.

peacenote

I took the survey for you.

I will say that you seem to have an issue with the rate at which we earn Champion Points. There are things I don't like about the system but this isn't one of them. I like having things to work towards. My issues are...

• The time delay for the slottables is extremely annoying. Especially as I often will change one, hit save because I instinctively save my work often, and then have to wait and hold up my team mates if I want to make another change.
• Many of the slottables in the green tree should be passives. They are QoL improvements that I earned but now have to choose between. Thank goodness I'm on PC so I can use mods to make this a little more bearable.
• I thought the new system would give us more options for niche builds but really there aren't that many meaningful competing choices.
• I don't like how healers are being forced to choose between bolstering their damage or heals, based on the low amount of slottables in the blue tree. I do not expect to be able to parse 90K as a support but part of the fun of ESO as a healer is to be able to add some damage when you can. In fact while having all of the slottables would be obviously OP, having only four in each tree seems limiting. Combined with my point above, if there aren't that many choices and you can only fit four anyway, who cares? I had hoped as we leveled we'd earn more slots so I could, say, have five slottables and maybe someday six in the blue tree. But all that really happens is after a certain point you can switch between four different ones without paying 3000 gold. That's it.
• For whatever reason I find entering the points more clunky than in the CP 1.0 system. I hate how you can't see everything available to you in one view, and you have to keep clicking into sub views.
• Because of the way things are gated, getting one or two points isn't exciting. Honestly as I earn CP points I forget about them because I've learned that there is no rush to enter them as I earn them. Makes the whole system feel "meh" to me.

I have been playing since beta so I have plenty of gold and swapping CP setups often for a fee is not a big deal to me, and as such I did not feel pressured to obtain the assistant and, while I own it, I only have it set up on one or two characters so far. However especially after AwA where some of the XP boosts for alts are gone when re-doing content, I can see how it might feel like it will take forever to earn enough for people starting fresh now.

rabb1t_ESO

Khenarthi wrote: »

I have 2400+ CP at present, and yes CP gain is extremely slow, but at this point I think I have way more CP than I'll ever need. Maybe because I have different characters for different roles and playstyles, so I only use the home armoury as a free skill/attribute/CP reset.

Yeah that's part of my figuring I may be an outlier on this. If people have a single role per character, you've probably got what you need and flexibility by 1400, and more may seem like an inconvenience more than anything.

But if you have multiple roles it feels restrictive. I think I'm estimating about 2400+ before I have what I "need" for 2 roles on my main with a touch of flexibility for a couple alt stars to slot.

I'll usually do one RND (just one, on my favourite tank), daily crafting writs on most of my characters, then quest on whatever character I feel like playing that day. Which gets me around zero to one CP a day.

Yeah, my original survey I made up had about 3-4 questions that got into character roles and when people swap and such. The free account on Survey Monkey limits you to 10 questions, so I had to drop those.

dmnqwk wrote: »

Questions 2 and 3 combined lack flexibility to allow me to answer it in a manner I feel comfortable.
I created an account in beta, played 6 months in 2017 and returned january, playing since. None of those options really allow me to answer.

Yeah, play with big breaks are again ones that had to be dropped due to limitations as a free member.

Plus, if someone REALLY wanted to get into those kind of breakouts it would take probably triple the number of questions and super serious correlational analysis tools. I figure if I get enough responses / ZOS interest they would likely follow up with a more in depth questionnaire on their own.

Question 4 is fine, but honestly why put so many brackets to gain exact 5 hour intervals of playtime? Perhaps these could more engaging if there were
0 - 1 hour a week
1 - 5 hours per week
5 - 20 hours per week
21 - 50 hours per week
50 hours +

Except for the fact that something like 90% of all players count in the "casual" category, and play somewhere around 15 or fewer hours a MONTH. Plus, more detailed breakouts let you check for different correlations.

Also neglects to include the fact someone may answer they play 10 hours per week, but spend most of it levelling alts.

Specific things like what people did with their time, how many characters, etc, again, was a limitation of being restricted to 10 questions as a free person on the site.

Question 8 should NOT have so many 'tick these boxes' options and nothing else. None of these apply because my answer would be 'Now that I am over 800 cp I don't focus on earning them at all while I'm doing other things like Master Angler or Cadwell's Gold.

"Fill in the blank" areas are not something that's available to free people.

I would like to say 'I got 1 armory slot and the assistant purely so I can switch on my warden, who is a tank most of the time but does stamden too'.

"I DO own them because I wanted the flexibility."

or allow a rating scale of 1-5 for options for questions you directly wish to ask (for instance... I feel it's fun to earn points).

"Likert-type scales" are great, but again, the free version is limited to 10 questions total. So that set of 10 for that one question would have taken up the entire survey. Also, from what I recall, doing correlational analysis on them is extremely taxing and time consuming. Not sure how the site would handle / help that.

Again, ZOS is free to do an in depth follow up of their own and be more or less detailed.

No one is paying me to do this. No one is backing me. In fact, if I do pay to unlock more responses it's looking like it would be $15 to unlock just 40 (which, technically qualifies under N=35, which I recall was the target minimum for surveys, so there's that), but $100 to unlock up to 1000, and if I'm seeing things correctly, around $385 to unlock 2,500 respondents. Honestly if I'd have known it would be locked so low I may not have bothered to go through with it. It didn't seem that limited when I skimmed it on creation.

peacenote wrote: »

In fact while having all of the slottables would be obviously OP, having only four in each tree seems limiting.

Yeah I was genuinely surprised when I saw that implementation after hearing things could be slotted. I guess I was expecting something more similar to the C.P. 1 system where my main was heal / tank hybrid and I'd do something like have half the soltables for each and adjust more or less depending on my current role. I don't even bother changing the green/red ones ever even if I do change roles.

I have been playing since beta so I have plenty of gold and swapping CP setups often for a fee is not a big deal to me, and as such I did not feel pressured to obtain the assistant and, while I own it, I only have it set up on one or two characters so far. However especially after AwA where some of the XP boosts for alts are gone when re-doing content, I can see how it might feel like it will take forever to earn enough for people starting fresh now.

Yeah, as above, due to the 10 question limit I had to drop the questions about if people hit vet, max on cp 1, etc., as well as how people feel about C.P. 2.0 compared to the previous C.P. systems. I think there would be some correlations there that I had to sacrifice.

But again, just a guy with a casual interest not getting compensated in any way for this, so it has to be enough.

FeedbackOnly

I feel like I will be happy with my cp at 2000. I will have most of the passives that I want

rabb1t_ESO

Hey everyone, just checking in for any following or seeing this after the close. I did get a nice burst of responses at the start, so thanks everyone who sent one in. But unfortunately it died very rapidly after that. I never heard back from either of the 2 big 'influencers' I reached out to, and with only 74 responses as of today, I'd say they did not announce anything to their communities.

With that small of a response, while it's nice to get some, according to calculators I'd need to have something like 385 responses at a minimum to be accurate, so with only 74 results could be very different from the overall community. I suppose that works out though, as I'd have had to spend $40 just to access the first 100 responses, and $100+ to access up to 1000. Which is way more expensive, and lower numbers than I thought I'd have access to.

If any are on NA PC and want to, you can send a message to @rabb1t and I'll send a thank you back.

Thanks to everyone that filled out the questionnaire and/or replied here. I guess I have enough peace of mind to shoosh my curious brain, but I suppose I may always wonder.

EozZoe1989

id like to see level go up..
like to level 100.. then champion points.. meow..

ectoplasmicninja

I can't see the questions, since the survey is closed, so I'm not sure exactly what data you were hoping to capture. As a baseline, I can say I started playing in May 2017 and have been playing pretty intensively since then with a few short breaks of a couple months here and there when my laptop at the time suddenly became allergic to ESO etc. I'm currently at CP1890. Most of my gameplay is questing/gathering, spending way too long at the outfit station, leveling and deleting endless alts, and lately running dungeons for gear collection purposes. I mostly play one role per character and I don't use the armory station except for the occasional free respect.

Anything else in particular you wanted to know?

pklemming

The problem with Cp2.0 is too many CP that are not passive. We can have 4 per tree and a lot will just never get used as they are far inferior to a set few.

I am over 2k CP and whilst still buying CP, none of it makes a difference to my play as they never get used.

oldbobdude

Like @pklemming I have way more CP than I can use and I’m only 1400ish. I think it was originally intended to have kind of flex ones you could have maxed out but not slotted.

But, in my opinion that was made obsolete by the addition of the armory where you can have multiple builds with different CP allocations on the same toon.

There could still be a fringe use for those that want to change what is slotted while on a trial or something.

Just my opinion.

rabb1t_ESO

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I can't see the questions, since the survey is closed, so I'm not sure exactly what data you were hoping to capture.

I was limited to 10 as a free person, but it asked questions that would have hopefully seen any connection between amount of cp and how happy people felt about their rate of progress in gaining more. There was one that asked if people felt certain positive or negative things about the system.

Most of my gameplay is questing/gathering, spending way too long at the outfit station, leveling and deleting endless alts, and lately running dungeons for gear collection purposes.

Lulz. Actually questions like that (what time players spend on what characters) were in the section I had to cut out. Being limited to 10 it could barely get the most basic of info. Again, if I wanted to unlock more, and unlock seeing more responses I'd have to spend a minimum of $100 to do so. Which I guess isn't much for the average person, but for someone unemployed who has unpaid bills along with other things needing to bought, that's not something that can happen.

Anything else in particular you wanted to know?

Well, kind of a lot, but in order to know the things there would have had to have been momentum. I was hoping I'd get so many responses it would have sparked a more in depth questionnaire from ZOS. With only 74 responding, either there isn't enough interest or there isn't enough visibility, so I'll have to let it be.

pklemming wrote: »

The problem with Cp2.0 is too many CP that are not passive. We can have 4 per tree and a lot will just never get used as they are far inferior to a set few.

Having 'too many' were what a couple of questions addressed, but I think what you are getting at speaks to people's individual style. Different people, with different roles or playstyles, will pretty much stick to the same ones. Others will just seem too situational for people to change them quickly or often.

oldbobdude wrote: »

Like @pklemming I have way more CP than I can use and I’m only 1400ish. I think it was originally intended to have kind of flex ones you could have maxed out but not slotted.

There's that, but really also 1200 is I think what ZOS intended people to 'max out' one role at. So, if your character only does one role, then you start to feel like they are unnecessary. But if you are someone like me, who does 2 roles on a character, or even all 3, it can feel like you don't have enough. And that's part of what I wonder. Because with the slowing down past that point, it feels like it's really only 'punishing' those who have characters who are multi-role, and who don't have the armory orc to change on the fly.

But, in my opinion that was made obsolete by the addition of the armory where you can have multiple builds with different CP allocations on the same toon.

Yup, I as curious about that too. There were a few questions asking if people had the armory orc and why they made that purchase. With only the first 10 respondents viewable on the free account I had, only 1 responded they had them. So I'd be surprised if may had them. Less surprised on console since there aren't addons that can swap gear like on PC, but I still think it's a very small percent that made the purchase.

There could still be a fringe use for those that want to change what is slotted while on a trial or something.

Exactly, I know I'm very rare in that I can do multiple roles, but on my main when I was doing things like Rockgrove, I could say, 'hey guys, I know having a 2nd tank is only really helpful for the second boss, so if you want I can flip to dps the rest of the time,' and it was like *BOOP* armor and skill swap via addon. But my champion stuff, if I swaped, would have to be done manually. And, since I was less CP at the time, I barely had any tank CP to slot.

So, yeah, for me it feels like I'm either put into a position of feeling 'behind' or 'limited' compared to someone who's single role, I get the armor change orc, or I just have to try to not really care about those slotted cp.

So, yeah, I was curious just how few there are out there like me who are multi-role who feel hurt or hindered by the slow gain of cp.

pklemming

Even taking in to account outlying situations, I can't think of a time I would use some of the slottable CP. I do have a variance in what I use and I also have alternative builds on Wizard's Wardrobe to go between tank, dps and heals, depending on what is needed in a dungeon.

I could use the armorer too, and this would be helpful for lower CP, but I am reluctant to buy something I would very rarely use..