ZENIMAX tank need buff for PVE (good ideas)

deadtek

Tank need buff

new buff : major taunt and minor taunt / major taunt have priority on minor taunt and when refresh taunt skill = remove all major and minor taunt on target

tank need more stamina ressources ( reduce blocage cost, other passive skill or champion point skill ) its very important probleme

aoe taunt and more skill tank :
grip adds increase resistance

deadtek

Puncture and morph ( new effect =

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>>>>>)

Cost: 1350 Stamina -->>> 1000 stamina
Target: Enemy
Maximum range: 5 meters

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>>>> 7 meters
Effect
Thrust your weapon with disciplined precision at an enemy, dealing 1161 Physical Damage and taunting them to attack you for 15 seconds. Also inflicts Major Breach on the enemy, reducing their Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 15 seconds.

--->>>> inflicts major taunt for 20 secondes and after this time ennemie inflicts minor taunt for 10 second

deadtek

Low Slash and morph

cost :2970 Stamina>>>>>new: 2200 stamina
Target: Enemy
Maximum range:5>>>>new: 7 meters
new: radius 6 meters
Effect
Surprise an enemy with a deep lunge, dealing 1392 >>new:900 Physical Damage and afflicting them with Minor Maim, reducing their damage done by 5% for 12 seconds. >>>new : circle around enemy deal 100 physical damage every second for 12 secondes

WHY ? : for proc enchant on one hand and shield

new change for passive (PVE vision)

Fortress: Reduces the Stamina cost of your One Hand and Shield abilities by 15% and reduces the cost of blocking by 45%.

Sword and Board the amount of damage you can block by 20% and increase one hand enchantment by 100%

Deadly Bash : Improves your standard Bash attacks, causing them to deal 500 more damage and cost 60% less Stamina.

Deflect Bolts: Increases the amount of damage you can block from projectiles and ranged attacks by 15%.

Battlefield Mobility : Reduces the Movement Speed penalty of Bracing. Current penalty: 10%

deadtek

new shield charge now not remove blocking
other new when you switch barre not removing blockage

starlizard70ub17_ESO

And yet tanks are nearly unkillable in Cryodiil. How does ZOS manage to do this?

Honestly though, tanks do need help in PvE. In a lot of undaunted runs, I rather go with a 3rd dps or healer who can do damage. A tank at times seems like a waste of a spot on a 4 person team.

deadtek

Inner Fire and morph

Cost: 2700 Magicka new cost 2400
Target: Enemy
Maximum range: 28 meters
Effect
Ignite the fires of hate in an enemy's heart, dealing 1161 Magic Damage and inflicts major taunt for 20 seconds and after this time you apply minor taunt for 15 secondes . ally targeting the taunted enemy can activate the Radiate synergy, dealing 2244>>>new 700 Magic Damage to them over 3 seconds then an additional 2249 new>>> 800 Magic Damage to them and other nearby enemies and apply major main for 5 second


new: morph inner rage = inflicts Minor Magickasteal for 15 secondes
inner beast = reduce cost 1800 stamina

deadtek

new skill for tank

cost 2700 magicka
target : area
duration: 20 secondes
radius :28 meters

effect : you apply minor taunt for 20 secondes on all enemies on area / this skill not work on players

morph n°1= you gain minor protection buff for 10 secondes
n°2= cost 2400 stamina , when you have this skill on your barre your block cost reduce by 20%

paulsimonps

As a full time PvE Tank for the last 8 years. We do not need any of what you just suggested. Things are perfectly fine for PvE Tanks. The AoE Taunt debate is as old as the game itself, the game was designed around us not having AoE Taunt, you don't need it, and if you feel like you need it.... I'm sorry, feel bad for you.

Enchantments on One Handed and Shield won't get buffed cause they were nerfed for PvP Reasons.

Again, things are fine, sure I'm a bit sad about the recent Bash Damage Nerfs but that is PvP related and not PvE.

deadtek

new skill

Cost: 2700 Magicka
Target: Enemy
Duration: 20 seconds
Maximum range: 28 meters
Radius: 8 meters
Effect
apply minor taunt on your target and any other nearby enemies over 20 seconds.

morph n°1=cost 1900 stamina
morph n°2= you gain minor resolve for 10 secondes

deadtek

please respect all players levels on this game , if you are HL player i know you don't need this but new players and normal players need good gameplay on tank : EXEMPLE:
when you switch barre you can take one shot (its not normal the permablock remove when you switch barre )
the ressources its problem on tank for block because stamina recovery delete when you block
The aggro switch on 2 tank not work sometime ETC;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;................

Marginis

If I'm being honest, this seems like feedback that only applies to people who don't have proper tank builds. None of these are significant issues right now for me, a player who mains tanks.

If anything, players need some tradeoffs to be as tanky as they are, because being really tough defensively is probably the easiest it's been in ESO's lifetime, right now, without giving up on much damage potential.

Let me be more specific with the individual points though:

There is only one taunt, and that's probably for the best. The first player to grab aggro has a free invisible 15 second or so taunt, which gets overridden by a proper taunt debuff, which is 15 seconds and is either overridden by another player using a taunt or refreshed by the same player using a taunt. If we added a minor taunt (say, 10 seconds long) debuff, that would only serve to lessen taunt times and make tanking harder, by overriding longer taunts.

Tanks have plenty of access to stamina resources. If you're having trouble sustaining, I recommend investing in more stamina, more stamina recovery, or mixing in more heavy attacks to your rotation. Remember, PVE tanks are made for taking hits, taking aggro, and buffing/debuffing allies/enemies - not mixing in a ton of light attacks to do more damage themselves. Well, that's generally the case, anyway. On my current tank, I can light attack weave between taunts indefinitely, and my passive regen is more than enough to keep me from never running out of stamina - and that's with no points invested in stamina whatsoever. If I use another stamina ability, it's as simple to recover stamina as switching to my staff backbar or using a heavy attack with my one-handed weapon to maintain.

When you first enter a room, grab aggro from every NPC by using an AOE ability, and group them up for your teammates to burn them down. If your teammates have too slow damage, you can even goes through and use that free 15 second taunt to start applying your single target taunts to the NPCs, in order to maintain their aggro (although usually it's not worth aggroing small mob NPCs, as they do so little damage). Having a specific AOE taunt is strictly unnecessary, and ZoS has specifically mentioned their reasons for not including an AOE taunt, this being one of them. Taunting is mainly for bosses, and tanks are either meant to dedicate themselves to tanking EVERYTHING if they want to tank mobs too, or focus on other things until the boss stages.

Resistance has an effective cap, so it's not worth it to stack physical/spell resistance (armor) past about 33k, in PVE. It's so easy, and there are so many ways, to get 33k armor, a buff to resistance on an ability is not necessary. Furthermore, right now all skills that grant resistance buffs are in line with each other, so buffing one specific ability would be greatly unbalanced - especially for DragonKnights, who are already top tier tanks.

As for your Low Slash morph idea, the AOE would not proc weapon enchantments. Destruction Staff's Wall of Elements used to proc enchantments, but ZoS eventually removed that, as it was unintended and giving the ability an unfair strength, so presumably the same applies to all AOE abilities.

For your Deadly Bash idea... ZoS has already stated that bash builds are overperforming. Adding more damage or less cost would exacerbate the issue. They are currently working on relevant abilities to get bash builds in a good spot, where they are effective but not overpowered.

The other ability changes are more preference than anything, but none are really necessary. There are plenty of ways to achieve similar or the same effects other ways, and honestly? More buffs will just make it too easy, and make tanks even more easy to build into. Personally, I like tanks being good - but I also don't want people to be able to tank just as well as a main tank AND THEN ALSO deal insane damage, or ALSO be a top tier healer. Tanks are already disliked enough as-is - why do you think there are so many fake tanks in activity finder, or PVPers who seem invincible for no reason?

paulsimonps

Marginis wrote: »

As for your Low Slash morph idea, the AOE would not proc weapon enchantments. Destruction Staff's Wall of Elements used to proc enchantments, but ZoS eventually removed that, as it was unintended and giving the ability an unfair strength, so presumably the same applies to all AOE abilities.

This is not true though. Enchantments DO proc of Wall of Element and Weapon Ability AoEs do proc them as well. What changed was that Enchantments can't proc proc sets. Example, it was common for DK Main Tanks to run Elemental Catalyst, using Engulfing Flames, Ice Staff Wall of Elements with a shock enchantment on the Ice Staff to proc all 3 elements, after the change they only had access to 2 out of the 3 elements required for max efficiency, so the Set was moved to Necro DPS's to run instead.

Marginis

paulsimonps wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

As for your Low Slash morph idea, the AOE would not proc weapon enchantments. Destruction Staff's Wall of Elements used to proc enchantments, but ZoS eventually removed that, as it was unintended and giving the ability an unfair strength, so presumably the same applies to all AOE abilities.

This is not true though. Enchantments DO proc of Wall of Element and Weapon Ability AoEs do proc them as well. What changed was that Enchantments can't proc proc sets. Example, it was common for DK Main Tanks to run Elemental Catalyst, using Engulfing Flames, Ice Staff Wall of Elements with a shock enchantment on the Ice Staff to proc all 3 elements, after the change they only had access to 2 out of the 3 elements required for max efficiency, so the Set was moved to Necro DPS's to run instead.

Thanks for the updated info - it seems I missed some stuff with ZoS' ability consistency updates. As far as I can tell, they re-added the ability to proc weapon enchantments with most abilities, making wall of elements + crushing enchantment a thing again, if less powerful (I think? Will have to test). It does seem however that weapon enchantments should still not proc from single target damage-over-time abilities, making my main point still correct, coincidentally enough, although I should still have said DOT instead of AOE in my original statement. I'm also reading that AOEs only proc enchantments on one target in the AOE, as well.

But at this point I need to test to see what's true and not.

Either way, I do still think the proposed buff to Low Slash here is still a bit overpowered and unnecessary. I mean, come on, an AOE, DOT, with debuff, that costs less, does more damage, has a bigger range, AND procs weapon enchants is too much. I mean, that ability would be broken - it does everything.

AcadianPaladin

Puncture (and morphs) should scale damage off health in PvE and off stam in PvP. Sounds like a reasonable fix for PvP with zero impact on PvP. I'd very much like for my tank to comfortably achieve a reasonable 'overland/questing' dps of 10k or so without changing gear or skills around to do so. Something like this might actually lure my tank out of retirement.

Marginis

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Puncture (and morphs) should scale damage off health in PvE and off stam in PvP. Sounds like a reasonable fix for PvP with zero impact on PvP. I'd very much like for my tank to comfortably achieve a reasonable 'overland/questing' dps of 10k or so without changing gear or skills around to do so. Something like this might actually lure my tank out of retirement.

Interesting. Scaling off max health with ability levels as-is could gives tanks a lot higher DPS than 10k though, so it'd probably be worth balancing that out - but at that point, it's probably better to just keep them stamina-based. It's also worth considering that ZoS intends to keep abilities and gameplay mechanics the same between PVE and PVP, for accessibility.

Necrotech_Master

Marginis wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Puncture (and morphs) should scale damage off health in PvE and off stam in PvP. Sounds like a reasonable fix for PvP with zero impact on PvP. I'd very much like for my tank to comfortably achieve a reasonable 'overland/questing' dps of 10k or so without changing gear or skills around to do so. Something like this might actually lure my tank out of retirement.

Interesting. Scaling off max health with ability levels as-is could gives tanks a lot higher DPS than 10k though, so it'd probably be worth balancing that out - but at that point, it's probably better to just keep them stamina-based. It's also worth considering that ZoS intends to keep abilities and gameplay mechanics the same between PVE and PVP, for accessibility.

i think mist form would like to have a word with you lol

Sockermannen

i’m fairly new to tanking, been doing it for roughly 2-3 months, most of it being vet dungeons and some vet trials.

I feel like nothing of this is needed really, if i’m experienced with the content i know which adds to prioritize. An AoE taunt is not needed, the game has been fine for the last 8 years without one.

Things like resource management can be tough, especially if i’m not used to rocking some 800-1k recov instead of 1.5k but it was something i’ve learned to overcome and manage, and how to manage it depending on the situation (knowing when to heavy attack, DK resource juggling…)

taunt is easy to manage, it only really matters against boss or elite adds as most competent players can survive against low tier trash on their own, simply chaining them in of there are AoEs is enough.

Kusto

Tanks are fine the way they are. Just git gud.

Ksariyu

Reduce passive defenses, increase reward for actively tanking. Give tanks something to do besides block and watch timers.

karekiz

Bring back Chains soft taunting for a couple seconds. That is all.