Class spammable

Wellsley

For me, the class spammables should have been reviewed a while ago. Not just some effects, animations too.
Lava Whip and Puncturing Strikes have the best spamming animations in the game. The others are bad.

The stamdk should have a real stamwhip, with a stamina cost, and a green color like Venomous Claw, Noxious Breath and Corrosive Armor.
Or a new animation for Stone Giant. A real punch, a punch on the ground, a headbutt... I don't know, but not 3 balls and a cast time.

Sorcerer, specifically stamsorc, should have a new animation for Crystal Weapon, which is the same as Imbue Weapon. Both of these skills must have the worst animations in the game, I prefer playing with Silver Bolts and yes it's ironic.
Or a new version of Lightning Splash. I was thinking of a mix between Stone Giant and Flame Skull. First time left hand, second time right hand, and 3rd time two hands. All three with lightning as a visual effect but different from Overload.

I think Warden deserves better too. Dive should be replaced with another skill. I was thinking of a skill with a vine (english word for "liane" ?) hit or a netch tentacle hit.
I was also thinking of an arm movement, to bring forth a spectral wolf like the bear with selene but better. With wolf bite animation like Burning Embers claw strikes.

And finally for the Necromancer, replacing Flame Skull with a new skill. Almost all skills of Grave Lord and Bone Tyrant use skeletons or bones, not to mention corpse mechanics. And I can't imagine a new spammable using a tombstone or a ghost.
The only alternative to replace Flame Skull, remaining in the theme of death, remains the scythe which has enough potential to compete with the animation of Lava Whip and Puncturing Strikes. Scythe have only one skill but it's an area skill, with even less damage and the animation to go with it.

I find it unfortunate that many players use Uppercut or Eviscerate as a priority, because skills like Flame Skull really suck.

Lazuli

Puncturing strikes animation lags and often takes more time than the cast time listed in the ability tooltip

TPishek

So you want all the spammables to lose their unique properties and just be recolors of each other? No thanks.

Mr_Stach

Yeah having 6 flavors of Lavawhip is not a great direction

Wellsley

TPishek wrote: »

So you want all the spammables to lose their unique properties and just be recolors of each other? No thanks.

Did you read my message correctly ? I'm talking about class spammables (especially three of them), not all the spammables. And I just talked about changing the color of just one skill, not all of them.

Wellsley

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Yeah having 6 flavors of Lavawhip is not a great direction

Just two, Flame Lash and a real stamwhip.
Skills like Flame Skull is not a great direction.

Wellsley

I think it's not normal to have to play Uppercut and Eviscarate because the others aren't worth it.

If everything was ok, we would see more players using Flame Skull or Dive, right ?

The class spammable deserve better.

Mr_Stach

Well Dive has several issues. It has a weird Ranged Component in order to proc it's Bleed For Stam Morph or being outside of the Shalks range for the Mag morph.

Also there's the speed issue. It's so very slow

Ratzkifal

Poison Whip is a bad concept. I can see someone vomitting acid instead of fire, or having poisonous claws, but since when are Dragonknights poison benders who can freely manipulate the shape of poison? Setting a whip on fire definitely makes more sense than coating it in poison. A poisonous tentacle would make sense, but we aren't Hermaeus Mora cultists and that isn't thematically in line with the rest of the DKs kit.
Simply palette swapping it to green and calling it "poison whip" or whatever wouldn't do. A DK stamina spammable needs a completely new animation that looks nothing like Lava Whip. At that point we might as well go back to pooprock and replace it with an ability that's actually cool. I always bring up "Stonelance" as an example, you cause a lance of stone to form around your fist and then slam it into your opponent before it crumbles. Rince and repeat for a cool spammable that combines the Earth theme (stone) with the knight theme (lance) and is visually a lot more pleasing than pooprock. It just needs a fast animation that's easy to weave with and standard spammable damage + additional effect. Voilà, no need to touch the fire whip morphs anymore.

Wellsley

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well Dive has several issues. It has a weird Ranged Component in order to proc it's Bleed For Stam Morph or being outside of the Shalks range for the Mag morph.

Also there's the speed issue. It's so very slow

Wellsley wrote: »

I think Warden deserves better too. Dive should be replaced with another skill. I was thinking of a skill with a vine (english word for "liane" ?) hit or a netch tentacle hit.
I was also thinking of an arm movement, to bring forth a spectral wolf like the bear with selene but better. With wolf bite animation like Burning Embers claw strikes.

Spectral wolf would be great. Much better than Dive wich is too slow. No cast time, fast and melee.

Wellsley

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Poison Whip is a bad concept. I can see someone vomitting acid instead of fire, or having poisonous claws, but since when are Dragonknights poison benders who can freely manipulate the shape of poison? Setting a whip on fire definitely makes more sense than coating it in poison. A poisonous tentacle would make sense, but we aren't Hermaeus Mora cultists and that isn't thematically in line with the rest of the DKs kit.
Simply palette swapping it to green and calling it "poison whip" or whatever wouldn't do. A DK stamina spammable needs a completely new animation that looks nothing like Lava Whip. At that point we might as well go back to pooprock and replace it with an ability that's actually cool. I always bring up "Stonelance" as an example, you cause a lance of stone to form around your fist and then slam it into your opponent before it crumbles. Rince and repeat for a cool spammable that combines the Earth theme (stone) with the knight theme (lance) and is visually a lot more pleasing than pooprock. It just needs a fast animation that's easy to weave with and standard spammable damage + additional effect. Voilà, no need to touch the fire whip morphs anymore.

I don't think we'll have a real stamwhip. Maybe one day, who knows. So poison or not, I think it's better to focus on a new version of Stone Giant. Stone lance 🤔 I can't imagine it but it would be original and more fun than Stone Giant.

Wellsley

What do you think of my ideas for the Warden ?

Mr_Stach

I think Warden should have an Ice Blast Projectile like in the Trailer. At least for the Mag Warden.

Wellsley

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think Warden should have an Ice Blast Projectile like in the Trailer. At least for the Mag Warden.

I don't know. It's not in the "Animal Companions" theme, more in "Winter's Embrace". Same for my idea with the vine that would go in "Green Balance".
This means Dive should be removed and replaced somewhere else, or create a 2nd spammable like the dk with Lava Whip and Stone Giant.
I prefer a Netch tentacle or a spectral wolf, as I said. Your idea is not bad, but I prefer another animation for an ice skill. Why not a ice Netch tentacle 🤔

Mr_Stach

My Ultimate goal is different playstyles, I firmly believe that there should be several aspects to Warden,

Stamina Warden - The Savage Guardian, relying on brutal attacks that Bleed Opponents

Warden Healer - The Druid, use the gifts of the Green to bless and heal allies

Magicka Warden - The Arctic Guardian, Using Frigid attacks to disable and shatter enemies

At this point, Zos is leaning in heavy on the "Savage Guardian" and I hope they will eventually get to the Ice stuff. We've only been asking for it since Warden Released.

Vaoh

ZOS, a lot of issues/player complaints would be solved by providing third morph options or by adding an additional skill line to each class. Through these, you can create new ways to play and spice up the gameplay of existing playstyles.

The way things are setup rn you’re clearly just rebalancing stuff at random. It’s no different than any forum poster on here besides that you can implement your random ideas.

Wellsley

I hadn't thought of a fourth skill line. I was thinking of a spammable for each. Exemple pour the dk : Lava Whip for Ardent Flame, a stroke of dragon wings for Draconic Power and a new version of Stone Giant for Eearthen Heart. Same pour the Warden : A spectral wolf for Animal Companions, a ice Netch tentacle for Winter's Embrace, and a vine strike for Green Balance.

It would make Warden and the others more interesting. Much better than playing the two or three skills everyone knows.

I prefer to fight 4 players who will use the spectral wolf, 3 with the tentacle and 3 with the vine. Rather than 6 players with Uppercut and 4 with Eviscerate. Even if it was 7 players playing with the spectral wolf, 2 with the tentacle and only 1 with the vine.

Wellsley

First a spam for each skill line, then why not a fourth later

DrSlaughtr

It's a massive benefit in today's game to use off stat resources for a skill like whip. It helps sustain, especially when considering stamina restore is locked when blocking. Especially considering you get crazy mag return via passives.

Wellsley

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's a massive benefit in today's game to use off stat resources for a skill like whip. It helps sustain, especially when considering stamina restore is locked when blocking. Especially considering you get crazy mag return via passives.

It depends on what morph and the number of magic skills.

Wellsley

Replacing Flame Skull, Dive and Stone Giant would already be good. One spammable per skill line would definitely be better.

Wellsley

Other ideas ?

Anti_Virus

Wellsley wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well Dive has several issues. It has a weird Ranged Component in order to proc it's Bleed For Stam Morph or being outside of the Shalks range for the Mag morph.

Also there's the speed issue. It's so very slow

Wellsley wrote: »

I think Warden deserves better too. Dive should be replaced with another skill. I was thinking of a skill with a vine (english word for "liane" ?) hit or a netch tentacle hit.
I was also thinking of an arm movement, to bring forth a spectral wolf like the bear with selene but better. With wolf bite animation like Burning Embers claw strikes.

Spectral wolf would be great. Much better than Dive wich is too slow. No cast time, fast and melee.

Ranged cliff racer is fine imo I just want the animation to speed up abit

Wellsley

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well Dive has several issues. It has a weird Ranged Component in order to proc it's Bleed For Stam Morph or being outside of the Shalks range for the Mag morph.

Also there's the speed issue. It's so very slow

Wellsley wrote: »

I think Warden deserves better too. Dive should be replaced with another skill. I was thinking of a skill with a vine (english word for "liane" ?) hit or a netch tentacle hit.
I was also thinking of an arm movement, to bring forth a spectral wolf like the bear with selene but better. With wolf bite animation like Burning Embers claw strikes.

Spectral wolf would be great. Much better than Dive wich is too slow. No cast time, fast and melee.

Ranged cliff racer is fine imo I just want the animation to speed up abit

If Dive was doing well, we would see more players using it. Speed ​​is bad, animation is bad, distance is bad (with shalk).

Anti_Virus

Wellsley wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well Dive has several issues. It has a weird Ranged Component in order to proc it's Bleed For Stam Morph or being outside of the Shalks range for the Mag morph.

Also there's the speed issue. It's so very slow

Wellsley wrote: »

I think Warden deserves better too. Dive should be replaced with another skill. I was thinking of a skill with a vine (english word for "liane" ?) hit or a netch tentacle hit.
I was also thinking of an arm movement, to bring forth a spectral wolf like the bear with selene but better. With wolf bite animation like Burning Embers claw strikes.

Spectral wolf would be great. Much better than Dive wich is too slow. No cast time, fast and melee.

Ranged cliff racer is fine imo I just want the animation to speed up abit

If Dive was doing well, we would see more players using it. Speed ​​is bad, animation is bad, distance is bad (with shalk).

I use it, Just because you don’t doesn’t mean it’s terrible though

Wellsley

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well Dive has several issues. It has a weird Ranged Component in order to proc it's Bleed For Stam Morph or being outside of the Shalks range for the Mag morph.

Also there's the speed issue. It's so very slow

Wellsley wrote: »

I think Warden deserves better too. Dive should be replaced with another skill. I was thinking of a skill with a vine (english word for "liane" ?) hit or a netch tentacle hit.
I was also thinking of an arm movement, to bring forth a spectral wolf like the bear with selene but better. With wolf bite animation like Burning Embers claw strikes.

Spectral wolf would be great. Much better than Dive wich is too slow. No cast time, fast and melee.

Ranged cliff racer is fine imo I just want the animation to speed up abit

If Dive was doing well, we would see more players using it. Speed ​​is bad, animation is bad, distance is bad (with shalk).

I use it, Just because you don’t doesn’t mean it’s terrible though

That's not enough of an argument. I was playing with it too and I'm not the only one who thinks Dive needs to change.

Wellsley

It's not the worst but Dive is bad.

Wellsley

A ice stalactite would be nice too.

the1andonlyskwex

Wellsley wrote: »

Replacing Flame Skull, Dive and Stone Giant would already be good. One spammable per skill line would definitely be better.

One spammable per skill line would be a loss of 2 other useful skills for most classes. As long as the spammable you have is good, you only need/want one.

Wellsley

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Replacing Flame Skull, Dive and Stone Giant would already be good. One spammable per skill line would definitely be better.

One spammable per skill line would be a loss of 2 other useful skills for most classes. As long as the spammable you have is good, you only need/want one.

It depends. They can mix two skills to make one spammable. The advantage : More diversity with builds and more varied gameplays.

Wellsley

The thing is, most stam uses Uppercut and most magic uses Eviscerate (except magdk, etc). It got boring.