Arctic Wind

Nser

If they are set on the Arctic Blast nerf because a rework wouldnt make the chapters deadline, then i suggest the following changes

Arctic Wind (base skill): increase healing done by this ability by roughly 10%, reduce cost by 20%

Arctic has recieved nerfs ever since it dominated the proc/health regen meta, allowing for tanky builds to still deal damage by proc and heal by health regen/health scaling healing.
While I understand it was nerfed for a reason, current state of the game is much different.
We have since seen the armor weight rework, which leans heavily towards a medium armor high wpn/spell dmg meta especially after players recieved a free 1k wpn/spell dmg on their character sheet, neither do anything for Arctic wind.
Arctic Wind burst heal has been nerfed by 20%, and its HoT by 25% afaik, while every heal scaling on spell/wpn dmg got heavily buffed.
So if the 20/25% nerf was to put arctic in line with other heals, we're having a problem now.

10% healing buff seems fair for all the power this skill has lost over the year, and might still not be enough but its a start.

Stun: On Pts currently it requires 5 stacks in order to stun and the ticks lasting for 3 seconds, up from 1.
While in theory one cast of Arctic Blast, costing 4k magicka, is able to provide these 5 ticks, ull find yourself having to recast it twice if u miss even 1 tick resulting in 8k magicka cost for a stun thats not on demand, will likely trigger the CC at the wrong time, and does not heal enough.
A longer duration is not the answer because theres still a burst heal attached, so hitting it once per 5 seconds is still prefered.

The 20% reduced cost could compensate for having to use it more often

Edit:

Arctic blast is already cheaper than Polar Wind, therefor asking for 20% cost reduction might be over the top.
Instead a 10% cost reduction on the Base skill Arctic Wind is a better solution to aid Arctic Blast in its stun, and polar might see some play

Mr_Stach

Personally I think that they completely remove the Heal from Arctic Blast. Having a skill that heals, damages, and stuns is apparently to difficult to Balance. So Polar Wind for the Heal. Arctic blast for the Damage.

Still doesn't fix the issue of the terrible stun.

Like you said, 8k for a stun is laughably bad. I'm still of the opinion that they should either Make the stun portion targeted and on demand. Or have an On Demand Stun somewhere else.

It's ridiculous that Warden needs to fight for a lackluster stun at all. The original 4 classes have several stuns baked in, Warden has 2 terrible stuns as of the PTS. And Necro basically only has one stun at the end of their Ult.

Nser

We've discussed in numerous posts about possible reworks, but imo this could solve some issues short term.

Mr_Stach

Nser wrote: »

We've discussed in numerous posts about possible reworks, but imo this could solve some issues short term.

You're right, hopefully we get something tomorrow. At this point I'm skeptical though.

Nser

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Personally I think that they completely remove the Heal from Arctic Blast. Having a skill that heals, damages, and stuns is apparently to difficult to Balance. So Polar Wind for the Heal. Arctic blast for the Damage.

Still doesn't fix the issue of the terrible stun.

Like you said, 8k for a stun is laughably bad. I'm still of the opinion that they should either Make the stun portion targeted and on demand. Or have an On Demand Stun somewhere else.

Pray with me, scorch and permafrost for stuns. Still not quite on demand since scorch is on a 3 second timer and Permafrost is an ulti

Mr_Stach

The important thing is being able to time your Stun. You can't time the Arctic Blast Stun and you can't time your Slab stun. You are essentially at the whim of your enemies to stun them.

MashmalloMan

Revert the U34 changes and spend the next update completely rehauling things.

Nothing they do last minute to this awful skill will fix Warden's kit as a whole.

MashmalloMan

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Personally I think that they completely remove the Heal from Arctic Blast. Having a skill that heals, damages, and stuns is apparently to difficult to Balance. So Polar Wind for the Heal. Arctic blast for the Damage.

Still doesn't fix the issue of the terrible stun.

Like you said, 8k for a stun is laughably bad. I'm still of the opinion that they should either Make the stun portion targeted and on demand. Or have an On Demand Stun somewhere else.

It's ridiculous that Warden needs to fight for a lackluster stun at all. The original 4 classes have several stuns baked in, Warden has 2 terrible stuns as of the PTS. And Necro basically only has one stun at the end of their Ult.

To be fair, Warden had stun on Shalks at launch. So technically, they had a very strong, on demand stun, but ZOS started to crack down on high damage skills not being attached to stuns like Crystal Frags and Dizzy Swing.

I agree with the intent, a long ranged aoe stun like that doing delayed burst damage too is overtuned, thats ultimate level burst damage + CC, but they failed to replace it with anything remotely useful. Every chance they've tried they seem to make it worse and worse.

Mr_Stach

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Personally I think that they completely remove the Heal from Arctic Blast. Having a skill that heals, damages, and stuns is apparently to difficult to Balance. So Polar Wind for the Heal. Arctic blast for the Damage.

Still doesn't fix the issue of the terrible stun.

Like you said, 8k for a stun is laughably bad. I'm still of the opinion that they should either Make the stun portion targeted and on demand. Or have an On Demand Stun somewhere else.

It's ridiculous that Warden needs to fight for a lackluster stun at all. The original 4 classes have several stuns baked in, Warden has 2 terrible stuns as of the PTS. And Necro basically only has one stun at the end of their Ult.

To be fair, Warden had stun on Shalks at launch. So technically, they had a very strong, on demand stun, but ZOS started to crack down on high damage skills not being attached to stuns like Crystal Frags and Dizzy Swing.

I agree with the intent, a long ranged aoe stun like that doing delayed burst damage too is overtuned, thats ultimate level burst damage + CC, but they failed to replace it with anything remotely useful. Every chance they've tried they seem to make it worse and worse.

Meanwhile Templar and DK exist with several on demand stuns.

Drives me crazy

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

We've discussed in numerous posts about possible reworks, but imo this could solve some issues short term.

You're right, hopefully we get something tomorrow. At this point I'm skeptical though.

At this point I'm insanely skeptical.

Wolfpaw

If the result is rushed by this deadline, leave it alone and come to it at a later time. No need to make a change like this if nobody is going to slot it.

I really don't understand why the Warden is so difficult for ZOS.

Even the Wardens in Vvardenfell have some great skills to use: Haj Mota aoe range stun, Claw skill similar to DK, Fetcher (we have), etc...Plus the ice mages in game.

Nser

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Personally I think that they completely remove the Heal from Arctic Blast. Having a skill that heals, damages, and stuns is apparently to difficult to Balance. So Polar Wind for the Heal. Arctic blast for the Damage.

Still doesn't fix the issue of the terrible stun.

Like you said, 8k for a stun is laughably bad. I'm still of the opinion that they should either Make the stun portion targeted and on demand. Or have an On Demand Stun somewhere else.

It's ridiculous that Warden needs to fight for a lackluster stun at all. The original 4 classes have several stuns baked in, Warden has 2 terrible stuns as of the PTS. And Necro basically only has one stun at the end of their Ult.

To be fair, Warden had stun on Shalks at launch. So technically, they had a very strong, on demand stun, but ZOS started to crack down on high damage skills not being attached to stuns like Crystal Frags and Dizzy Swing.

I agree with the intent, a long ranged aoe stun like that doing delayed burst damage too is overtuned, thats ultimate level burst damage + CC, but they failed to replace it with anything remotely useful. Every chance they've tried they seem to make it worse and worse.

Shalks when warden launched were unblockable afaik, leaving little counterplay to the stun other than completely avoiding it. It only stunned 1 target tho (closest one to you?).
At the moment Scorch and morphs are blockable so if the stun can find its way back to the skill, there is now counterplay

ESO_Nightingale

Nser wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Personally I think that they completely remove the Heal from Arctic Blast. Having a skill that heals, damages, and stuns is apparently to difficult to Balance. So Polar Wind for the Heal. Arctic blast for the Damage.

Still doesn't fix the issue of the terrible stun.

Like you said, 8k for a stun is laughably bad. I'm still of the opinion that they should either Make the stun portion targeted and on demand. Or have an On Demand Stun somewhere else.

It's ridiculous that Warden needs to fight for a lackluster stun at all. The original 4 classes have several stuns baked in, Warden has 2 terrible stuns as of the PTS. And Necro basically only has one stun at the end of their Ult.

To be fair, Warden had stun on Shalks at launch. So technically, they had a very strong, on demand stun, but ZOS started to crack down on high damage skills not being attached to stuns like Crystal Frags and Dizzy Swing.

I agree with the intent, a long ranged aoe stun like that doing delayed burst damage too is overtuned, thats ultimate level burst damage + CC, but they failed to replace it with anything remotely useful. Every chance they've tried they seem to make it worse and worse.

Shalks when warden launched were unblockable afaik, leaving little counterplay to the stun other than completely avoiding it. It only stunned 1 target tho (closest one to you?).
At the moment Scorch and morphs are blockable so if the stun can find its way back to the skill, there is now counterplay

they don't want stuns on high burst damage skills but they've broken that rule with spammables.

Nser

Wolfpaw wrote: »

If the result is rushed by this deadline, leave it alone and come to it at a later time. No need to make a change like this if nobody is going to slot it.

I really don't understand why the Warden is so difficult for ZOS.

Even the Wardens in Vvardenfell have some great skills to use: Haj Mota aoe range stun, Claw skill similar to DK, Fetcher (we have), etc...Plus the ice mages in game.

im sure 10% more healing and 20% reduce cost so it can be spammed more will deffo make people slot, if they arent already.
I for one have not dropped the skill since its nerf, its too class defining/iconic for me.
For short term it cant harm, while they work on maybe overhauling frozen gate as a stun.

Nser

what about Permafrost for stun?
Since Northen got a "buff" to be usefull for all builds regardless of max magicka, surely permafrost could have a stun being lower damage than northen

ESO_Nightingale

Nser wrote: »

what about Permafrost for stun?
Since Northen got a "buff" to be usefull for all builds regardless of max magicka, surely permafrost could have a stun being lower damage than northen

yeah, as a whole, sleet storm is underperforming since the prot nerfs.

Nser

i didnt want to ask for base ultimate to get the stun since that be greedy, but I should

ESO_Nightingale

Nser wrote: »

i didnt want to ask for base ultimate to get the stun since that be greedy, but I should

i want it to at least cost less. it's problem is it's not worth it's cost.

Wolfpaw

Nser wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

If the result is rushed by this deadline, leave it alone and come to it at a later time. No need to make a change like this if nobody is going to slot it.

I really don't understand why the Warden is so difficult for ZOS.

Even the Wardens in Vvardenfell have some great skills to use: Haj Mota aoe range stun, Claw skill similar to DK, Fetcher (we have), etc...Plus the ice mages in game.

im sure 10% more healing and 20% reduce cost so it can be spammed more will deffo make people slot, if they arent already.
I for one have not dropped the skill since its nerf, its too class defining/iconic for me.
For short term it cant harm, while they work on maybe overhauling frozen gate as a stun.

I can't slot for the rp value of a skill over function, as a stun it's terrible sounding and rather slot vigor morph for a hot.

Still want bear to have a charge(22m)>stun on command (75ult)

Nser

I Never got to play with permafrost stun since when i started playing Magden, the Meta was Harness/Dampen magic and ofcourse youd take Northenstorm for the 8% max magicka it provided when slotted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N07izIv8EjM

ESO_Nightingale

Nser wrote: »

I Never got to play with permafrost stun since when i started playing Magden, the Meta was Harness/Dampen magic and ofcourse youd take Northenstorm for the 8% max magicka it provided when slotted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N07izIv8EjM

would have been cool af to have crys slab be a legit 60% of max hp damage shield so you could shield stack on magden again. those were the days. i loved old magden so much. this current direction is something no-one asked for.

Nser

While this video captures when i had most fun with Warden, I also enjoy what came with greymoor.
The vampire rework (blood for blood) and full power arctic blast created a playstyle for me unique to warden, and I will still run it that way even if the arctic changes go live

ESO_Nightingale

Nser wrote: »

While this video captures when i had most fun with Warden, I also enjoy what came with greymoor.
The vampire rework (blood for blood) and full power arctic blast created a playstyle for me unique to warden, and I will still run it that way even if the arctic changes go live

ever since the removal of vampire drain and shock clench stuns i've hated what warden has been forced to rely on when it comes to stuns.

Nser

Warden is nxt week since Dk got their arrow to the knee

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale

Nser wrote: »

Warden is nxt week since Dk got their arrow to the knee

I want you to be right. I do. But I'm 99% sure it's not happening

Mr_Stach

Like I really wanna hope for next week. But I'm starting to feel like Clint in Avengers: Endgame

Nser

Edit

Arctic blast is already cheaper than Polar Wind, therefor asking for 20% cost reduction might be over the top.
Instead a 10% cost reduction on the Base skill Arctic Wind is a better solution to aid Arctic Blast in its stun, and polar might see some play

Mr_Stach

I still say at a minimum. They should make Arctic Blast comparable to Deadly Cloak. Reducing the cost from 4050 to 3780, and increasing the duration from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.

To balance the Heal, make the Heal tick every two seconds.

Nser

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I still say at a minimum. They should make Arctic Blast comparable to Deadly Cloak. Reducing the cost from 4050 to 3780, and increasing the duration from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.

To balance the Heal, make the Heal tick every two seconds.

but these are two completely different functions of a skill, one is a DoT and buff and the other is a heal first, stun second.
A duration increase doesnt do anything when you are going to use it more than once per 5 seconds because theres a burst heal attached.
I get that a longer duration makes the stun land easier per single cast, but not the solution when there is still a burst heal.
In order for a longer duration to be worthwhile, the skill needs to be Damage and stun only, not heal. But at that point we're in the rework stages again

Mr_Stach

I'm fine with that. The Heal isn't that great anyways