ONE thing you really don't like about the writing in ESO?

Ratzkifal

DivineKitty wrote: »

What I didn't like is that The game Introduced the idea of "The Coldharbour Compact" Which prevents the most notable Daedric princes from directly interfering in Nirn. It kinda stretched this with the Vvardenfell and Summerset lines, because in those ones, Daedric Princes basically try conquer the world, but it's apparently fine, because they weren't part of the original Compact, and Mephala and Clavicus Vile eventually sign on to it anyway... And then we get to The Blackwood/Deadlands story...
Now, Mehrunes Dagon was already established to have already signed the Compact, meaning he cannot directly interfere in Nirn. We are also told in Deadlands that Dagon has actually tried to break the compact before and Sotha Sil straight up Kicked him out of Nirn. So this proves that not only is Dagon Bound to the Compact, Sotha Sil has both the Authority and the power to enforce it. So, Why oh why does Dagon just Invade Nirn on a whim in Deadlands? And where was Sotha Sil? He was shown in Summerset to still be looking out for Nirn when he "helped" stop the Triad (I say "Helped" because he basically just sat back and watched you do most of the work, then swooped in to clean up) and Yet Here is Dagon Physically appearing on Nirn and Sotha is apparently just fine with it. Where was he the whole time? Was he taking a nap for the whole of Blackwood? Homeboy should have just showed up the moment Dagon appeared and kicked his 4-armed butt to the curb.

You can't introduce a bit of lore specifically for the game, then just ignore it when it becomes convenient.

The Coldharbour Compact has been around since TES3. But only in ESO has it gained story relevance because there is no Dragonborn Emperor on the throne in Cyrodiil, so it's basically the only thing in place to prevent Daedric invasions. Molag Bal found his loophole by having the planemeld be started by Mannimarco from within so to speak.

I agree on the Blackwood story critique though. They only had Dagon invade because of Oblivion nostalgia bait, not because it would make sense. As for why Sotha Sil didn't appear in Blackwood, mainly because Summerset is connected to the events of Vvardenfell and Clockwork City, but Blackwood isn't, so they'd have to give him an introduction again and establish him in the story - otherwise it would be a literal deus ex machina to have Sil come and kick Daedric butt again. And to be fair, Sotha Sil was too late to prevent the destruction of Mournhold too so he probably would have kicked him out eventually but not immediately.

newtinmpls

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Everything happens in the same year.

I approve of this; it's a dragon break after all. I wish they would play with it a bit more tho

Ratzkifal

newtinmpls wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Everything happens in the same year.

I approve of this; it's a dragon break after all. I wish they would play with it a bit more tho

It is not a dragonbreak. The game is very very clear on this. A lot of people confuse the Interregnum with the Middle Dawn for some reason but there is no dragonbreak happening in ESO and we actually prevent one from happening in the Psijic quest.
But hey, if you like this, then I suppose one thing you really don't like about the writing in ESO is that it's not happening during a dragonbreak.

Destai

Questgiver starter pack:

• "YOU THERE!"
• *Hunched over*
• *Appears in multiple locations*

Lugaldu

This doesn't relate to the storytelling, but what bothers me, and seems to be increasing recently, is the non-optional flirting of certain NPCs.

RaddlemanNumber7

Trying to pretend there is no fixed timeline, when the progressive development and release of expansions creates a very obvious and inescapable timeline.

Switching away from a much simpler and more elegant solution (that was already assumed in the base game) - to have a fixed standard timeline and say the player character is mobile along that timeline.

That must be one of the dumbest decisions in game creation I've ever encountered.

It is made worse by having returning characters. Lyranth is a prime example.

Want to know what Lyranth did after Deadlands?

One of my characters completed The Deadlands year-end quests, then moved on to do Coldharbour. There was a unpleasant surprise waiting for him in the Tower Of Lies...



So, they're telling me that after filling up on Dagon's power, and giving us all that chat about going to mysterious places no mortal or daedra has ever been, Lyranth just gets captured and imprisoned on Coldharbour.

I know this isn't going to be every Vestige's story, but WTF.

Way to turn an intriguing mystery into a dull certainty, ESO style.

Way not to write a story backwards.

Lugaldu

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Want to know what Lyranth did after Deadlands?

But at least there is now a reference to the adventure that has already been completed, which is better than playing the new chapters first and then encountering NPCs in the base game who suddenly seem to be suffering from amnesia.

Elsonso

Aztrias wrote: »

Jacen_Veron wrote: »

The stupidity of the player character is rather upsetting, but I understand why the “who’s this?” and “what’s that?” questions exist.

Who is Vivec? - Dark Elf vestige

What's the Hist? - Argonian vestige

ESO is very much a game where the player is along for the ride. The story is written for the player, not the character. The writers write the story, they decide the ending, and the player just experiences it as the writers have laid it out. It is like a movie, but feels more personal. This is the way I find that most main stories are written for computer games. Sometimes, they have different endings, but if you look closely, chances are they are really the same ending. Naturally, there are variations and exceptions, but not here.

Keeping in mind that the story is written for the player, not the character, those questions make perfect sense. It isn't the character that is asking, it is the player. The player is the one participating in the story. The character is just the player's avatar. The player may not be familiar with Hist, or Vivec, or all of that, and to understand the story, the player must ask about it, or just be presented with the necessary information.

As for my problems with the writing? Each chapter/annual story should be self-contained and specific to the locale they are set in. It should draw on nothing from previous stories and nothing from future stories should draw upon it. No prequels. No sequels. No shared or reused characters as a central part of the story, especially if they died, could have died, or will die, in another story. No saving Nirn from an untimely demise, as this has broad implications that often cannot be ignored.

casparian

1. I agree with others that the "play in whatever order you want" thing that ZOS halfway sticks to has really gotten old. At first it was just a weird quirk, but after the last few expansions it has begun to seriously degrade the quality of the writing. The requirement simply constrains the choices the writers can make, and not in a good way.
2. The writing is completely divorced from the gameplay. NPCs and storylines routinely present badguys as serious, potentially world-ending threats, and then they die before they finish their voice lines. The writing would be more immersive if quest bosses were more challenging.

RaddlemanNumber7

Lugaldu wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Want to know what Lyranth did after Deadlands?

But at least there is now a reference to the adventure that has already been completed, which is better than playing the new chapters first and then encountering NPCs in the base game who suddenly seem to be suffering from amnesia.

In the spirit of enquiry I just used the same character to pick up the Wrothgar quest from the ambassador, and then went to talk to Eveli Sharp-Arrow near the Merchant Gate.

Eveli's dialogue has not been updated. She gave no indication of ever having met the character before, despite my character having completed all the Blackwood/Deadlands quests with her.

It's just a complete mess of inconsistencies.

Malyore

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Lack of agency, consequence, choice.

My character wouldn't do this, the premise is stupid and see-through and doesn't fit how I imagine my character would likely behave. But I have no options. Not even room for the most fundamental alternatives. I can't explore the issues and the story in my own way, but have to either get lead by the nose through the plot how THEY decided it should be done, or just choose to miss out on the content.

PLEASE put the R back into the MMORPG!

For reallll. There have been SO many quests where you KNOW someone in particular is going to betray you, or you know exactly what's going on by leagues ahead of the NPCs. But instead you have to do the dumb and friendly run around, which feels insulting as a player. Or just decide to not get drug through the mud and miss out on the quest.

I get that there's only so many options you can give players without implanting unnatural ideas in their head (if someone really sees nothing wrong and thinks "sounds good, let's go!" but sees an option for "I don't trust Azif. I'm going to kill him instead".. that can be an issue for story experience 😆) But if they can't allow for smooth drastic choices, then they need to work harder at making things not so obvious.


As for my complaint about the writing specifically, everyone talks a little too much. It really slows down a sense of urgency when they keep going on about something. I often find myself interested in a quests story at the beginning, but towards the end I am just skipping through dialogue.

TheImperfect

I have a suggestion, it's not something I don't like, just something I didn't realise I needed but do want.

I installed an addon that makes the dialogue more Khajiitified. For example instead of saying 'I have to go', it says 'This one has had enough of talking'.

In terms of adding immersion it has done wonders. It would be great if you could have this as an option for the various races who may have different speech types, in the settings.

Anyway if you are on PC the addon is great.
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info157-KhajiitSpeak.html

JD2013

DivineKitty wrote: »

What I didn't like is that The game Introduced the idea of "The Coldharbour Compact" Which prevents the most notable Daedric princes from directly interfering in Nirn. It kinda stretched this with the Vvardenfell and Summerset lines, because in those ones, Daedric Princes basically try conquer the world, but it's apparently fine, because they weren't part of the original Compact, and Mephala and Clavicus Vile eventually sign on to it anyway... And then we get to The Blackwood/Deadlands story...
Now, Mehrunes Dagon was already established to have already signed the Compact, meaning he cannot directly interfere in Nirn. We are also told in Deadlands that Dagon has actually tried to break the compact before and Sotha Sil straight up Kicked him out of Nirn. So this proves that not only is Dagon Bound to the Compact, Sotha Sil has both the Authority and the power to enforce it. So, Why oh why does Dagon just Invade Nirn on a whim in Deadlands? And where was Sotha Sil? He was shown in Summerset to still be looking out for Nirn when he "helped" stop the Triad (I say "Helped" because he basically just sat back and watched you do most of the work, then swooped in to clean up) and Yet Here is Dagon Physically appearing on Nirn and Sotha is apparently just fine with it. Where was he the whole time? Was he taking a nap for the whole of Blackwood? Homeboy should have just showed up the moment Dagon appeared and kicked his 4-armed butt to the curb.

You can't introduce a bit of lore specifically for the game, then just ignore it when it becomes convenient.

I wondered about this too!! I was thinking for the longest time that Sotha Sil may show up but, disappointingly, no.

Vrienda

Lack of continuity.

Every chapter takes place in 2E 582 which means that any major NPC's that show up in say High Isle that have a presence on the mainland or in another chapter/DLC/Dungeon simply will not die or be under any threat at all because for the sake of 'player canon' you have to be able to do the story in any order you want. This was not the plan. Orsinium was originally set in 2E 583. The base game through to roughly Summerset had a storyline and plot you could trace then they threw it all out and started with these yearly adventures which have been catastrophic for the story and lore of the game in my point of view.

The last three in particular, high isle included, being especially bad compared to the other chapters and DLC we got.

KingArthasMenethil

One thing?
Chapter/Q2 zones not doing much for the race of the zone. I'll use Blackwood as an example as Blackwood does nothing for the Nibenese you could play TES4 and ESO and just see them as Imperial and not the so called Nibenese culture of the Cyrodiils. Also spreads the the issue of Imperial Religion as Shezarr (worshipped by Nibenese as the Colovians worship Shor), Morihaus and Reman not existing and the Nibenese Cults suffering from the age old problem of TES with "lol more Daedra". Which hurts them more then anything as the Ancestor Moth only make it in to talk of Elder Scrolls as if there was a Daedric cult for Elder Scrolls the Ancestor Moth would never appear like the "Cult of Heroes". Also Blackwood having nothing really magical about it which is definitely wrong for the Nibenese who had the Battlemage aristocracy and probably plays a part to the Empires Battlemages like how Colovia plays a part of the Navy and the Legion.

Hurbster

Short-Terminism. Having to cram everything into a year rather than let things breathe. And the next year the cycle begins all over again.

BlissfulDeluge

If judging by the most recent chapter? How Bretons are condemned to be basic, bland, boring and generic.

Oakenaxe

Vrienda wrote: »

Lack of continuity.

Every chapter takes place in 2E 582 which means that any major NPC's that show up in say High Isle that have a presence on the mainland or in another chapter/DLC/Dungeon simply will not die or be under any threat at all because for the sake of 'player canon' you have to be able to do the story in any order you want. This was not the plan. Orsinium was originally set in 2E 583. The base game through to roughly Summerset had a storyline and plot you could trace then they threw it all out and started with these yearly adventures which have been catastrophic for the story and lore of the game in my point of view.

The last three in particular, high isle included, being especially bad compared to the other chapters and DLC we got.

I have to agree, this "do the story in any order you want" thing shrinks the opportunity for a good long-term story, and you just encounter the same people all over the place again and again (they can't die, because you might encounter them in another map you haven't played yet), which is boring (can't stand Stibbons anymore). I would much ratter follow the development and change of a main story and its characters. High Isle did break free from the end-of-the-world stuff and put the main story (Three Banners War) in its plot, which is awesome, but we still need continuity. Nothing wrong with having an specific order, on the contrary, it makes players more attached to the story and its characters. This would be a change I would love to see in the future, but I doubt it will ever come, afterall, they want new players to able to play the main quests of each new expansion as soon as they create their character.

Elsonso

Oakenaxe wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Lack of continuity.

Every chapter takes place in 2E 582 which means that any major NPC's that show up in say High Isle that have a presence on the mainland or in another chapter/DLC/Dungeon simply will not die or be under any threat at all because for the sake of 'player canon' you have to be able to do the story in any order you want. This was not the plan. Orsinium was originally set in 2E 583. The base game through to roughly Summerset had a storyline and plot you could trace then they threw it all out and started with these yearly adventures which have been catastrophic for the story and lore of the game in my point of view.

The last three in particular, high isle included, being especially bad compared to the other chapters and DLC we got.

I have to agree, this "do the story in any order you want" thing shrinks the opportunity for a good long-term story, and you just encounter the same people all over the place again and again (they can't die, because you might encounter them in another map you haven't played yet), which is boring (can't stand Stibbons anymore). I would much ratter follow the development and change of a main story and its characters. High Isle did break free from the end-of-the-world stuff and put the main story (Three Banners War) in its plot, which is awesome, but we still need continuity. Nothing wrong with having an specific order, on the contrary, it makes players more attached to the story and its characters. This would be a change I would love to see in the future, but I doubt it will ever come, afterall, they want new players to able to play the main quests of each new expansion as soon as they create their character.

Stibbons is getting a little stale, yes. I saw him in High Isle and ran the other direction. However, he and his charge are a perfect example of how reuse should work. Nothing happens to Stibbons or Lady Laurent that have a lasting impact. They don't die. They don't get mutilated, folded, or spindled in a manner that extends beyond the story they are in. They are free to show up at any time, in any story, and continuity issues are minimal. Yes, they can be in two or more places at the same time, but that is minor compared to other characters that they have reused.

Disclaimer: I have not done the High Isle quest for Stibbons, so I am assuming that they didn't kill one of them, or otherwise fold, spindle, or mutilate in a more permanent manner.

RaddlemanNumber7

Elsonso wrote: »

Disclaimer: I have not done the High Isle quest for Stibbons, so I am assuming that they didn't kill one of them, or otherwise fold, spindle, or mutilate in a more permanent manner.

It was worse than that!

Stibbons suffered a fate worse than death

Sync01

Currently: A card game that has existed for years and is highly popular and available in every zone, and we all just missed it. All of us.

When I was a new players: Going into a new zone and finding zombies... again.

kaushad

Sync01 wrote: »

Currently: A card game that has existed for years and is highly popular and available in every zone, and we all just missed it. All of us.

TES games do tend to ignore such things that don't pertain either to adventuring, theology or politics. ESO introduced a piece of this with Tales of Tribute and a lot more with stolen goods, as TESV introduced a variety of small, harmless wildlife.

Supreme_Atromancer

Two things:

1. Disposable lore: I couldn't care less to read that Goblins prefer toe rings made of Shablablah stones, or the thousandth unique combination of macguffins will open the ayleid door/activate the portal/attune me to the thingybob so I can commune with the ghost/free the prisoner/thing the thingy. Its "technically" lore, but lore that just forms a big pile of whatever that no one can care about, or will ever think about again, writers included. Why, in a world of monsters, magic and deep mysteries am I chopping wood to burn apples?

I want the lore to be part of a "lore system", to feel like it fits in to the lore matrix already established, that will be integral, referenced, useful and interesting.

2. Characters of various races that have no sense of racial identity; I love that the writers like to tunnel down to the idea that no matter who you are, where you live, at the end of the day a farmer is just a farmer, and her concerns are going to be immediate and recognisable, but I think that the writing misses a lot of nuance when you can take any character, stop them saying "fetching fetcher" and they feel like every other villager in the world.

FrancisCrawford

I hate that more recent writing cancels out good writing that came before.

E.g., I so disliked the cancellation of Lyris' and Abnur Tharn's previous personalities at the beginning of the chapters they respectively shepherded that I never did those chapters' stories.

DivineKitty

quote= I so disliked the cancellation of Lyris' and Abnur Tharn's previous personalities at the beginning of the chapters they respectively shepherded that I never did those chapters' stories.

[/quote

See, i actually liked Abnur's Character Arc in Elsweyr. He starts as an arrogant ass, but realised pretty quick that actually, he was the one who screwed up this time, and thus, he spends all of that chapter trying to make up for it. And in my opinion, his arrogant attitude grows on you. Him being an unlikable ass becomes endearing, like a particularly Stubborn cat that doesn't want to admit it want's ear scratches, but accepts them anyway.

You're right about Lyris though, not much is added to her character, except maybe that she's now Thirsty for Sai Sahan.

sharquez

If you are clicking on the dialogue options to make them turn grey because of your OCD yeah they are going to make you feel dumb. It's there for the 40 year dad of 3 who has an few hour before bed every friday to pick up where he left off, not for the everyday gamers.

Elsonso

sharquez wrote: »

If you are clicking on the dialogue options to make them turn grey because of your OCD yeah they are going to make you feel dumb. It's there for the 40 year dad of 3 who has an few hour before bed every friday to pick up where he left off, not for the everyday gamers.

There was one quest, I think it was part of Blackwood or Deadlands, where I am sure that the "recap" happened unsolicited and in sequential steps of the quest.

colossalvoids

A lot of the mentioned stuff, like complete dumbness or silly reused characters that lost their charm or development all along, but I remembered another thing that actually put me off a ton. I think it was kinda same-ish with Summerset but Vvardenfell expansion intro quest was probably made for the whole different Vvardenfell and entirely another story. This whole arc really feels like had a lot of changes happening and played in a close proximity feels weird and at times way off. And reading possible stories from uesp doesn't help cause they're sounding as way more interesting ones, wish they've sticked to plans more without trying to squeeze nostalgia pieces everywhere.

psychotrip

Ratzkifal wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Everything happens in the same year.

I approve of this; it's a dragon break after all. I wish they would play with it a bit more tho

It is not a dragonbreak. The game is very very clear on this. A lot of people confuse the Interregnum with the Middle Dawn for some reason but there is no dragonbreak happening in ESO and we actually prevent one from happening in the Psijic quest.
But hey, if you like this, then I suppose one thing you really don't like about the writing in ESO is that it's not happening during a dragonbreak.

ESO being a dragon break would honestly make me accept it a lot easier.

psychotrip

Elsonso wrote: »

Aztrias wrote: »

Jacen_Veron wrote: »

The stupidity of the player character is rather upsetting, but I understand why the “who’s this?” and “what’s that?” questions exist.

Who is Vivec? - Dark Elf vestige

What's the Hist? - Argonian vestige

ESO is very much a game where the player is along for the ride. The story is written for the player, not the character.

Keeping in mind that the story is written for the player, not the character, those questions make perfect sense. It isn't the character that is asking, it is the player. The player is the one participating in the story. The character is just the player's avatar. The player may not be familiar with Hist, or Vivec, or all of that, and to understand the story, the player must ask about it, or just be presented with the necessary information

This is, like, the definition of bad RPG storytelling. Aspiring writers could use this as a lesson in what NOT to do.

Obviously this isnt the fault of the writers per se, they just have to work with what they're given, but it does speak to the overall leadership at ZOS that seems to place so little priority on the storytelling and roleplay aspects of their MMORPG

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

PLEASE put the R back into the MMORPG.

All I want is an MMORPG with an actual R in it. Not just cosplaying and playing pretend with a toxic RP guild, but a game that actually caters to people who want to play a ROLE in a living world.