Even No Man Sky has cloth physics (and capes) now

kieso

This game has painted on armor, capes aren't going to look good lol.

Xinihp

Vevvev wrote: »

Not true? That's legit what Rich Lambert told us.

People keep saying this, yet no one ever posts a source link. I guarantee that even if he did say something generally about capes/cloaks or physics not being feasible, it was more due to dev cost and not wanting to make features separately for PC and current consoles vs. 2-generation old consoles than any real technical limit. Again, even that is false because they already DID make graphics options specific to PC, like Global Illumination.

Maybe some can accept that MMO's like Guild Wars 2 with less than half ESO's budget that came out 2 years or more before ESO can do physics but somehow ESO can't, but sorry I just can't.

I honestly don't understand why people go so far out on a limb to knee-jerk reject the idea of new gear slots and new graphics options in a game they pay for. I have honestly never seen anything quite like it. People seem so intent on saying "no" just to say no that it almost seems no one is interested in imagining the creative possibilities or benefits to gameplay.

Just as one example, with an extra gear slot you would have the ability to keep your sustain or 2nd buff set active on your back bar, and open up the possibility for TRUE dual-bar play, rather than just having one bar you flip to for activating buffs/AOE before staying on one main bar all the time. It would make builds and combat FAR more engaging and interesting. Yet it seems hardly anyone is interested in imagining creative possibilities, only saying "NO!" I don't understand this.

Also, for people claiming it has anything to do with performance... *AHEM* TURN IT OFF!

You can turn of Global Illumination in video settings. No reason you wouldn't be able to turn off other graphics enhancements like capes/physics the same way. Same with the "it obscures outfits" argument. Say hello to my good friend, the "Hide Helmet" option. Guess what? You have one for capes too!

And again, if ESO can't do what MMO's that came out 2 YEARS EARLIER (or more) could do back then with half the budget or less, with a technology leader like Microsoft at the helm? Well, all I can say is if you believe that I have a bridge I'd like to sell.

How about some good old American "can do" for a change?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Game appearance isn't something many players have a problem with. In fact, for an MMO released in 2014 with development starting at the earliest 2009, it's a gorgeous looking game. It could use a new engine at some point in the future, which would give more stability and graphical fidelity, but also allow them to add stuff like underwater and sky-based exploration and content, but that's not really something that's NEEDED.

To clarify, ESO development started in 2007.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

The breton hero costume has a "cape" and it looks horrendous. I'd imagine that's why they haven't put capes in the game. Even a bunch of the robes look weird when your character moves. Anyway if they add capes now then all previous styles need a new page to collect and a cape modeled for them and I can only imagine the clipping that it would cause on 90% of them so it is probably best for no capes to be added.

DMuehlhausen

Xinihp wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

...it's not possible in the game engine.

I keep hearing this "the engine is 8 years old it can't handle it" rhetoric passed around like it is fact.

Skyrim came out in 2011. I'll let you do the math. MODDERS were able to put full physics in that game.

If anyone can post a link where the devs say "it can't technically be done" then I would consider applying for a job there.

Otherwise I think people have just come to enjoy saying "no" for no reason.

Also before someone jumps in with the classic "but that's a single player game" let me just save you the lack of effort. That fact makes literally ZERO difference. Physics is rendered on the client side. It has nothing to do with server lag.

If you still feel the need to press the issue based on zero facts, Tera and Guild Wars 2 both have full character and cloth physics. These are both MMO's, and both came out in 2012.

TWO YEARS BEFORE ESO.

Please stop with the "it just can't" rhetoric when it is clearly baseless.

[snip] There are games 20 years old that could do capes because their engines allow for it. This one doesn't. [snip] It can be 2040 and we are celebrating 22 years of ESO there still won't be capes unless they tear this game down and make a new ESO 2 on a new engine that supports them

Year the game was made doesn't matter. Comparing it to other games of different eras, genres what doesn't matter. [snip]

[snip] If you want every cape to look like the breton hero it will, but I don't think that is what you want.

[edited for Rude and Insulting Comments]

zaria

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Yes they have locked themselves into an 8 year old + game engine. There are limitations. Same issue that EA has with Frostbite engine. EA demands all games, or they did for awhile, are done in Frostbite. It makes sense so that all developers know how to use the engine, but it's crap for inventory management games.

What we have is what we are going to get. No flying mounts (even if they could they never should) capes, or swimming etc it's not possible in the game engine. Only way to fix that is if they made ESO 2 and moved to a new engine, but the is probably never happening since it's been 8 years and they just keep developing for this one.

So either accept it and stop complaining about things that can never happen or move on to a game that has these features because the engine supports it.

Game engine is kind of over hyped, cloth physic is purely client based for one and I guess pretty much an modular thing.
On the other hand ESO has plenty of legacy users as in old PC's and PS 4 / one players.
Yes as its modular it would not hurt them, but people set up their system settings somewhere relaxing rater at an Alk'ir dolmen and then complain that the game lags out in large fights in Cyrodil.
Yes I would love it but it would require, changes like dynamic resolve this, and yes its also server side stuff had logged in and not been able to do crafting writs, game crashes, restart and smooth.

So yes doable but an pain, more so then you get outfits who require it to not look stupid.
Capes, no it will not work, hair, weapons on back and tails, they have serious issues with gripping shields.
You have to be selective to find an 2h axe who does not try to cut of your tail and long hairstyles does not work well with bulky armor.

Dagoth_Rac

Xinihp wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I'd far rather they sorted out being able to have more furnishing slots in housing - if they can't do that I don't know how anyone thinks capes are feasible!

Totally unrelated issue. Housing limitations are about database size on the server side. Physics is purely a client-side rendering requirement, meaning it is only limited by what YOUR video card can take.

The housing limit MAY be resolved when/IF they finish upgrading their servers which they have been working on for 3 years.

Housing limitations are on the client side, not server side. The server upgrades will make no difference. Per Rich Lambert:

"When it comes to questions about housing items, the number of them and the quality of them, I just need to remind everyone that ESO runs on an extraordinarily wide variety of devices and right now we still support the xb1 and ps4. Which in 2013 were fantastic consoles but now they are of course approaching 9 or 10 yrs old, so everything that we add to ESO you need to understand that we need to add it on ALL platforms. So sometimes that limits us and housing is one of those areas just where... how the game works, we need to make sure we don't overpower those devices. So that's why we are making those decisions.... and some other decisions in game too are because we need to make sure that players have a good experience on ALL supported platforms."

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Xinihp wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

...it's not possible in the game engine.

I keep hearing this "the engine is 8 years old it can't handle it" rhetoric passed around like it is fact.

Skyrim came out in 2011. I'll let you do the math. MODDERS were able to put full physics in that game.

If anyone can post a link where the devs say "it can't technically be done" then I would consider applying for a job there.

Otherwise I think people have just come to enjoy saying "no" for no reason.

Also before someone jumps in with the classic "but that's a single player game" let me just save you the lack of effort. That fact makes literally ZERO difference. Physics is rendered on the client side. It has nothing to do with server lag.

If you still feel the need to press the issue based on zero facts, Tera and Guild Wars 2 both have full character and cloth physics. These are both MMO's, and both came out in 2012.

TWO YEARS BEFORE ESO.

Please stop with the "it just can't" rhetoric when it is clearly baseless.

[snip] There are games 20 years old that could do capes because their engines allow for it. This one doesn't. [snip] It can be 2040 and we are celebrating 22 years of ESO there still won't be capes unless they tear this game down and make a new ESO 2 on a new engine that supports them

Year the game was made doesn't matter. Comparing it to other games of different eras, genres what doesn't matter. [snip]

[snip] If you want every cape to look like the breton hero it will, but I don't think that is what you want.

[edited for Rude and Insulting Comments].

I can only imagine the backlash if they went and made an ESO 2 so a few people could have their precious capes. All that progress people put into their accounts gone unless ZOS were to recreate the entire game on the new engine but that just seems like a lot of resources and money just for 1 extra cosmetic slot

Ditronus

JKorr wrote: »

Ditronus wrote: »

No other MMO nails exploration, story, and the "bigness" of the world like ESO, yet the game feels like it is continually bogged down by poor foundational engine/under-the-hood choices from 8 years ago. Poor character models, no cloth physics for gear--resulting in gear looking like it is pasted on your character, horribly dated skill animations, and of course performance issues are all results of a shaky, dated foundation, dragging down such a beautiful world (with shaders). It feels like this game will always be continually held back creatively into the future because of decisions made into the past. Why has there been no new class? Why have classes not had their skill lines expanded? Why are there no new animation updates to a game almost a decade-old? Why are there no new weapon skill lines, leaving most of the player base's builds using virtually the same builds for years? Why are there no cloth physics?

The future of the game is doomed to live on marginally, always doing that bare minimum to eek out content to keep a handful of whales' wallets open.

It is a shame.


https://www.nomanssky.com/outlaws-update/

Yes, yes, please give us all more clipping issues, wonky hitboxes, the inability to have staffs, shields, bows, and backpacks, jerky framerates even worse than presently, and more reasons for everyone to yell about the broken game. Because caped swashbucklers and dastardly rogues who'd end up accidentally hanging themselves or caught by the first guard who can grab that gorgeous flowing cape as they attempt to run by are just teh greatest thing evah.

Yeah, personally I would rather not ruin the game by adding cloaks and capes because people have this Batman/Dracula thing about capes and cloaks. Heck, even the Count on Sesame Street swirls his cape. Rabbit hole ahead: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassCape My characters would rather be unobtrusive and unnoticeable when out to do stuff the guards would object to, rather than have a swirling, billowing, DRAMATIC cloak that rustles, catches on objects, makes it impossible to carry her shield/staff/bow.

Most people like capes. It is indisputable. But I guess there's always those few people specifically in the ESO fanbase that tries to justify the absence of a staple in almost every other game with realism arguments; you have circus necromancers shooting skulls from their fingertips like some Halloween harry potter, so I doubt realism is really the proper argument to go with here. Sure, there is some clipping with capes in other games, but would that really be a problem compared to how wonky character and spell animations already are in this game? In fact, it would mask some of those issues, particularly how bad the running animations are. Hitboxes would be a nonissue; you can aim arrows several feet out from a character and it curves it for you. The greater point is a call for cloth physics so gear in the game doesn't look like it has been painted onto your avatar.

FeedbackOnly

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The same reason flying won't be implemented is the same reason swimming won't. The engine can't handle it. There is essentially for freedom of movement only horizontal movement no vertical movement. You can raise and lower a few feet but that's it.

They have even explained numerous times, though not for years why capes can't be done in the engine as well. It's why the Breton outfit looks like garbage. What should be a flowing cape is just a stiff jacket.

Yet we have been dragons 🤔

Kiralyn2000

Ditronus wrote: »

Most people like capes. It is indisputable.

Citation needed.

But I guess there's always those few people specifically in the ESO fanbase that tries to justify the absence of a staple in almost every other game with realism arguments;

And it has nothing to do with ESO or "realism" for me. I've not liked capes in any game, I've disabled or removed them in games that allow it, and I've certainly never bothered downloading cape/cloak mods for TES games. I just think they look bad, and cover up the rest of the character. And after all the effort I've gone through to make them look good, why would I want to do that?

(heck, even in City of Heroes, I avoided capes. Of all my characters & outfits, I think just two had capes, and I stuck with the smaller ones.)

Ditronus

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I despise capes in games. Not only does it kill framerate in crowds and raids, it obscures outfits. If capes/cloaks are ever enabled, there needs to be a toggle in settings to not see them, like other games have.

Really? Prove that assertion. Plenty of games like WoW and Lost Ark have dramatic visuals and effects and cloth physics going on that don't cause a discernable impact on players with PCs made within the current decade; it is standard in almost every game, and not even a talking point. I'm not even just asking for capes here, but rather calling out for better-looking armor, namely armor that doesn't look like it is glued onto your character, like many jackets in this game.

Capes are parts of outfits. If you don't like clothing to resemble realistic movement and form, I'm not sure how to comeback to that other than to say you are in the huge minority.

Ditronus

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Seriously, what is the obsession with capes?

(This means nothing to me, ooooooh Vienna)

Most people like capes. Even the marketing teams behind ESO realize this; capes are quite often featured in their marketing cinematics. Primarily, I'm just calling for better-looking armor. I don't like seeing the swathes of armor that appear to be painted on to your character. It's like hundreds of people are running around with "armor" that looks like tight shirts with pictures of armor pictured on to it.

Orlaxx

No capes.

Ditronus

Stamicka wrote: »

I like ESOs current graphics actually. The game looks great. I have a lot of complaints about the game, but appearances aren’t really one of them.

The world and lighting, especially with shaders, look fantastic, as I said in my post. The outfits look fake and painted on to the character models, and the models themselves have very unnatural-looking movement. The animations as a whole are usually pretty rough. But, that's just my opinion. The environments are indeed fantastic.

Grizzbeorn

Ditronus wrote: »

Most people like capes. It is indisputable.

Really? Prove that assertion.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Ditronus wrote: »

Most people like capes. It is indisputable.

Really? Prove that assertion.

He like cape. He think of him more people. Therefore most people like cape.

Kiralyn2000

Ditronus wrote: »

I don't like seeing the swathes of armor that appear to be painted on to your character. It's like hundreds of people are running around with "armor" that looks like tight shirts with pictures of armor pictured on to it.

And you know? That's not what I see/how I feel as I run around the game. So there's probably very little room for agreement, when our perceptions of the in-game experience are so different.

edit: just to double-check, I went and looked at some of my character screenshots that I used for fashion thread posts. I'm not sure how you can see armor as "painted on", when they're clearly modeled in the motifs.

(I certainly remember painted-on armor from early-days WoW. ESO's looks nothing like that.)

Sylvermynx

Not interested in cloaks/capes. Never have been.

DMuehlhausen

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The same reason flying won't be implemented is the same reason swimming won't. The engine can't handle it. There is essentially for freedom of movement only horizontal movement no vertical movement. You can raise and lower a few feet but that's it.

They have even explained numerous times, though not for years why capes can't be done in the engine as well. It's why the Breton outfit looks like garbage. What should be a flowing cape is just a stiff jacket.

Yet we have been dragons 🤔

On fixed flight paths. They never deviate randomly it's the exact same pattern every single time.

Xinihp

@DMuehlhausen - Not sure why you feel the need to get hostile about it.

But you'll forgive me if I don't take your word that an engine that came out 2 years after Guild Wars 2 can't handle simple physics. Unless you feel like giving me your name, and that name happens to be the person that actually built the engine, you're statement is pure opinion and conjecture and I will duly note it as such.

But I do know a thing or two about game engines. One thing they pretty much all have in common is they are extensible. Many of the features we now have in ESO, were not supported by "the engine" at release.

There is no technical reason why it cannot be extended to incorporate a simple physics model.

Gaeliannas

.

kieso wrote: »

This game has painted on armor, capes aren't going to look good lol.

IKR? It is pretty weird to see my steel armor bending like cloth all the time, although I mentally block it out now. Makes me wonder if the hip and should plates they refuse to give up on, are hiding the fact that it would look way worst without them?

SilverBride

How would a cape be equipped? There would have to be an armor slot for it or how else would you put it on?

I honestly hope we never find out because I think they are awful.

LordRukia

More importantly, can we add better movement physics? Running full sprint then losing all my speed while jumping is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a game.

Gaeliannas

Amottica wrote: »

From what I understand No Man’s sky multiplayer is limited to a few dozen players and has hardly a fraction of what ESO has. It having cloth physics doesn’t mean much as it’s inferior in so many ways.

NMS is a great game (and I thought I would hate it), and currently has more people on Steam playing it than ESO does. Also, the game world is quite literally billions of times times larger than ESO. They also keep adding new content, exciting new events, new features, etc... all from their little storefront in England (maybe the upgraded, IDK). It is quite an amazing accomplishment really, as is Valheim.

If one of these scrappy Indi studios decides to make a full on MMO, these AAA game companies better watch out.

xaraan

Not a big fan of capes/cloaks for this type of game, it's really not that practical. But most of all, I think if they add one more grain of particle effect this engine and servers will explode. So let's worry about them getting the game to work before we sweat them for capes. It took 15 button presses for me to fire off one ability tonight in Cyrodiil - that's a bigger issue.

LesserCircle

The only cloak I need is my shadow cloak

Heartrage

I don’t see any point to adding a new slot. Capes can be integrated in some motifs.

ApoAlaia

Cloth and hair physics could be added to the engine if ZOS chose to make it happen.

I am pretty certain that if 3rd party modders can add hair/cloth/skeleton physics framework(s) to Skyrim the developers themselves could add this functionality to whichever engine ESO runs on, given time and resources.

However this would also mean updating a large amount - if not all - of the cosmetics... adding the capability to the engine is only part of the equation, you also need to rework the assets that are going to take advantage of it.

Motifs, outfits, hair styles, adornments... each and every one of them would have to be reworked to different degrees.

Alternatively they would have to draw a line in the sand and say: from here on there be physics. However this would devalue older objects even further, and many are premium crown store items.

Last but not least, physics have a measurable impact on performance. Go to a heavily populated area - like crafting or busy trading areas for instance - where suddenly everyone and their pet is displaying physics effects in luxurious detail and performance for older or more conservatively provisioned systems may tank.

This is all regarding PC by the way, I have not the foggiest how feasible this would be on consoles, specially older generation ones.

If it cannot be ported to consoles this would add yet another layer of complication to asset management, build version control, you name it.

Bottom line, it may be possible from a technology standpoint but it would be a significant undertaking with hurdles well beyond just implementing the capability on the engine.

Amottica

Xinihp wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

I'd far rather they sorted out being able to have more furnishing slots in housing - if they can't do that I don't know how anyone thinks capes are feasible!

Totally unrelated issue. Housing limitations are about database size on the server side. Physics is purely a client-side rendering requirement, meaning it is only limited by what YOUR video card can take.

The housing limit MAY be resolved when/IF they finish upgrading their servers which they have been working on for 3 years.

Zenimax has said the furnishing limits are due to client-side limitations of less powerful machines. It is a furnishing bag that is a database size issue.