why arent dungeon sets tradeable????

Sparxlost

i cant imagine it being bad for the in-game economy because it would promote dungeon farming as a job......
what i suggest is
making all dungeon sets tradable. excluding end-game raids and stuff like DSA Maelstrom blackrose etc.
Q. y should i do dungeons when i could just buy the sets???
A. Doing dungeons isnt just about the loot. i imagine as an adventurer or hero of sorts you take an interest in the quest and are happy to help anyway. You beat the boss of every dungeon in the game and end up with a lot of loot? maybe it would be good to sell some of it...
There are always shops with great loot acquired by adventurers. Why would dungeon sets be excluded???

Khenarthi

You can trade them with the people who ran the dungeon with you, up to 2 hours from when the set item was picked up.

ixthUA

It would make game more p2w. It is enough that you can p2w golden equipment upgrade, - with dungeon/trial sets tradeable newcomers would be able to sell crowns and get best equipment in game without doing a single dungeon/trial.

KalevaLaine

ixthUA wrote: »

It would make game more p2w. It is enough that you can p2w golden equipment upgrade, - with dungeon/trial sets tradeable newcomers would be able to sell crowns and get best equipment in game without doing a single dungeon/trial.

This.

People would only buy it - other players would sell it. If you're rich in gold, you could by anything faster than others.

Otherwise I would quit my job and would farm dungeons all the day, lol.

fizl101

It gets people to play the dungeons/trials. If they want the gear they have to play to get it. TBH I think its a good thing you can't just buy everything at traders, some things just need to be earned by that character/the group

bmnoble

It gets people running the content, instead of refreshing the TTC website and rushing to traders.

essi2

bmnoble wrote: »

It gets people running the content, instead of refreshing the TTC website and rushing to traders.

This^

Cardhwion

ixthUA wrote: »

It would make game more p2w. It is enough that you can p2w golden equipment upgrade, - with dungeon/trial sets tradeable newcomers would be able to sell crowns and get best equipment in game without doing a single dungeon/trial.

How please is golden upgrade P2W? You cannot buy materials with real world money.

KalevaLaine

Cardhwion wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

It would make game more p2w. It is enough that you can p2w golden equipment upgrade, - with dungeon/trial sets tradeable newcomers would be able to sell crowns and get best equipment in game without doing a single dungeon/trial.

How please is golden upgrade P2W? You cannot buy materials with real world money.

Sure, pages like MMOGA sell them.

Jaimeh

They are kind of tradeable in a loose sense now with the Set collections systems, because someone who has dropped a weapon and hasn't bound it/destroyed it, will always drop that weapon next, so you will sometimes see messages in zone chat of people offering dungeon drops for gold, but pertains to these specific drops and not gear in general.

ApoAlaia

Many moons ago they used to be no different to overland drops but this was changed with One Tamriel.

In fact from time to time items from dungeon sets appear on traders (just yesterday I saw an Ebon dagger listed).

I honestly don't know why it was done, it happened a long time ago (in ESO terms). They may or not have officially made a statement about it, I don't remember.

However given that ZOS has historically been quite happy to let us speculate and infer the reasons why they do the things they do while providing none of their own - or in the rare instances when they do leave ample room for raised eyebrows, like the choice to make 'Rationer' not apply to XP/AP boost consumables for instance - I would take anything on the thread that doesn't cite a specific source as 'speculation' or 'educated guess' at best.

ixthUA

Cardhwion wrote: »

How please is golden upgrade P2W? You cannot buy materials with real world money.

You can sell crowns (which cost real world money) to players for gold, then use gold to buy golden upgrade materials. If golden upgrade materials were bound - it would be a different matter, but i think a huge number of people would dislike this.

ApoAlaia

ixthUA wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

How please is golden upgrade P2W? You cannot buy materials with real world money.

You can sell crowns (which cost real world money) to players for gold, then use gold to buy golden upgrade materials. If golden upgrade materials were bound - it would be a different matter, but i think a huge number of people would dislike this.

You'd be correct I think.

Personally, at this point I wouldn't care because I produce much more than I can possibly consume and I have little use for gold anymore however anyone who relies on others for supplies and would rather purchase rather than put the time and the effort required to set themselves 'for production' would definitely find that unpalatable.

Sparxlost

i dont think that qualifies as pay 2 win honestly
p2w in my opinion is paying for content to get items that others cant have

So what if someone wants to pay real money to skip straight to end game???
there are probably more people who prefer to grind the gold out anyway....
people buy games to play them not to pay more money for the convenience of not having to play
you get the game
you do some dungeons
maybe you have enough gold after how many xxxxx hours played and now you dont have to farm your own dungeons???
is that so bad??
people act like they would just stop buying dlc because the only thing you get from them are sets for your character

its just bad incentive honestly....

Kiralyn2000

fizl101 wrote: »

It gets people to play the dungeons/trials.

This. If you want dungeon rewards, you have to run dungeons.

ixthUA wrote: »

You can sell crowns (which cost real world money) to players for gold, then use gold to buy golden upgrade materials.

Being able to "trade" Crowns for in-game gold, is an anti-p2w feature. Because it means that people who aren't paying $, can still get cash-shop items.

"Pay To Win" is when there are things being sold only for cash, that give you an not-obtainable-in-game power advantage over players who don't pay cash.

So, first, there have to be cash-shop items that do that (like a faster tier of mounts, or stronger gear, or unique/better buffs, or auto-healing potions, or "enchant boosters" so you can boost your gear higher, etc - just to name some of the things I've seen in f2p/p2w games); and then they have to be only available for cash.

So yeah - being able to get cash shop items for in-game gold? Prevents p2w from happening.

Tommy_The_Gun

Short answer ? So that some sets can be soft-p2w. Sometimes just a tiny bit better (but it matters for min-maxing players) or flat out bis or op or broken (like Caluurion or legendary Zaan that despite being old was no available at Gold Vendor not even once).

Kiralyn2000

Dungeon gear being bound (so that you have to run dungeons if you want to get it) has been a common feature of MMOs since long before cash shops were a thing.

JanTanhide

Long ago the sets were BOE. Heck, you could get dungeon sets without ever entering a dungeon. So, things were changed up a bit so we would actually run dungeons. That's pretty much why it is the way it is.

It's fine with me. Run the dungeons to get the gear. Trade in group.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I remember when it was a thing, and people made a business out of running dungeons to sell the gear, at the time it was Red Mountain and the Viper lol

chessalavakia_ESO

Currently, you can buy drops in Dungeons by paying people to carry you on a run and give you items so they are technically tradable. (I'd argue this practice should be phased out and thus won't partake in it myself but, that's a topic for another day)

The reason they are not tradable overall is because for most items the supply would exceed the demand.

Dungeons give out loot like candy but, after the first few runs most of the items you get are duplicates.

All of these duplicates would end up flooding the market. The rarer dungeon drops might be able to keep value but, most of the drops from most of the dungeon would probably be under 10k in a month. You've got tons of people doing dungeons for the 40th+ time to get transmutes that do not care about using the loot.

The loot in dungeons is a major driver for getting people to start doing them.

I would likely never have started doing dungeons without the loot rewards because I'm not big on grouping with random people and I don't like letting people I know down and I'd assumed they would be too hard to solo for me.

I bought up a bunch of key fragments because my initial runs were so painful on the Imperial City DLC Dungeons that I didn't want to go back and I used the key fragments to get the gear I was missing to finish some of the sets.

Nowadays, I generally solo dungeons rather than grouping if it's an option and doesn't take far longer if I am not after transmutes.

The only reason I do Veteran Dungeons at all is for the loot that only drops in them because I hate one shots as my reflexes are garbage.

If I could buy Veteran Dungeon loot in a timely manner I doubt I would enter them again with any frequency.

Gaeliannas

Wow, people really like to through PTW around at anything. Please explain, if I can farm and trade overland gear from the same zone/area/DLC that dungeon gear comes from, why would trading the dungeon gear be PTW and the overland gear not be? How come I can already buy the monster helmets & shoulders as well as the jewelry from dungeons for gold, and that isn't PTW?

Also, to be PTW is has to be better than other gear, which in most cases, it isn't, as it depends on what you consider better, and even if you go by the meta, that changes all the time.

Whatever ZOS's reason, it isn't because they think it would be PTW. More likely they are just doing their normal thing, which is kind of forcing people to do things they don't really enjoy, just to make them experience some part of their game, if they want something from that part. They do it with Mythic's, crafting, PVP, certain quest lines, to name a few, dungeons are no different.

xXSilverDragonXx

ixthUA wrote: »

It would make game more p2w. It is enough that you can p2w golden equipment upgrade, - with dungeon/trial sets tradeable newcomers would be able to sell crowns and get best equipment in game without doing a single dungeon/trial.

You kid yourself if you don't realize this already is happening. There are groups that offer paid carries. Some more expensive than others depending on content and if it is normal or vet. It is done for trials and dungeons. For sets, monster sets and for achievements. I've seen it all. That people don't act as if this is a thing is amusing.

Kiralyn2000

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

You kid yourself if you don't realize this already is happening. There are groups that offer paid carries. Some more expensive than others depending on content and if it is normal or vet. It is done for trials and dungeons. For sets, monster sets and for achievements. I've seen it all. That people don't act as if this is a thing is amusing.

Eh, paid (with gold) carries have also been a thing in MMOs for decades. Long before cash shops/etc. I remember raid guilds in vanilla WoW selling spots in their "farm" raids to raise gold for their guilds. Nothing new, or wrong, with that. It's no different than a crafter selling their crafting skill for gold.

El_Borracho

Because you should be able to do the content to get the sets. If you can't do the content, you don't need the set.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

It would make game more p2w. It is enough that you can p2w golden equipment upgrade, - with dungeon/trial sets tradeable newcomers would be able to sell crowns and get best equipment in game without doing a single dungeon/trial.

You kid yourself if you don't realize this already is happening. There are groups that offer paid carries. Some more expensive than others depending on content and if it is normal or vet. It is done for trials and dungeons. For sets, monster sets and for achievements. I've seen it all. That people don't act as if this is a thing is amusing.

While it can be done now, it is wildly expensive. Most carries are for achievements and the gear is an afterthought. It's done, but the notion that I can say, purchase a Perfected Siroria Staff is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of people. It would likely require me buying multiple carries at a massive price. While its pretty common since stickerbook to see people selling runs for specific dungeon items (Kinra or Tzogvin Staff or Dagger), I have yet to see it for specific Trial Gear, at least not in zone chat.

I think if trial sets become BOE, you would have people racing to be able to use sticker book to farm/sell specific items. At first they would be expensive, but as more and more people would be able to essentially print and list them, the price would tank. I dont think it would take too long to be able to get the handful of desirable items quickly and cheaply, which certainly hurts replay value of content. ZOS has a massive interest in keeping their content replayable.

Kiralyn2000

Quoted post has been removed.

Dungeon gear being bound (so that you have to run dungeons if you want to get it) has been a common feature of MMOs since long before cash shops were a thing.

Paralyse

If you could just buy all the gear you wanted, why would you ever need to run any content?

Sell crowns, buy every meta and perfected dungeons, trials, arena and pvp set your toons might ever need

Mythgard1967

El_Borracho wrote: »

Because you should be able to do the content to get the sets. If you can't do the content, you don't need the set.

THIS...you dont need Trial gear to do Overland. You dont need Dungeon gear to run Overland. If you dont want to do Dungeons or Trials...why would you need Dungeon or Trial gear?????

FeedbackOnly

It used to be ...I was so rich . Trust me it's better this way it is now.

ixthUA

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Being able to "trade" Crowns for in-game gold, is an anti-p2w feature. Because it means that people who aren't paying $, can still get cash-shop items.

"Pay To Win" is when there are things being sold only for cash, that give you an not-obtainable-in-game power advantage over players who don't pay cash.

So, first, there have to be cash-shop items that do that (like a faster tier of mounts, or stronger gear, or unique/better buffs, or auto-healing potions, or "enchant boosters" so you can boost your gear higher, etc - just to name some of the things I've seen in f2p/p2w games); and then they have to be only available for cash.

So yeah - being able to get cash shop items for in-game gold? Prevents p2w from happening.

Pay to win is when you can pay cash to get combat advantage. In some games people pay tens of thousands of USD to game hosting company for cash shop currency, then exchange it for tradeable ingame currency to buy overpowered combat items from other players.
In bad p2w games they get so overpowered to become godlike, solo killing groups of players, or soloing instances.
In good p2w games they get combat advantage, but not game-breaking, and other non-p2w players can also get to their level.
In ESO golden perfected trial gear is better, but skill and knowledge are much more important in combat, and it can be obtained by just playing the game, so its viewed as light p2w.

kargen27

ixthUA wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Being able to "trade" Crowns for in-game gold, is an anti-p2w feature. Because it means that people who aren't paying $, can still get cash-shop items.

"Pay To Win" is when there are things being sold only for cash, that give you an not-obtainable-in-game power advantage over players who don't pay cash.

So, first, there have to be cash-shop items that do that (like a faster tier of mounts, or stronger gear, or unique/better buffs, or auto-healing potions, or "enchant boosters" so you can boost your gear higher, etc - just to name some of the things I've seen in f2p/p2w games); and then they have to be only available for cash.

So yeah - being able to get cash shop items for in-game gold? Prevents p2w from happening.

Pay to win is when you can pay cash to get combat advantage. In some games people pay tens of thousands of USD to game hosting company for cash shop currency, then exchange it for tradeable ingame currency to buy overpowered combat items from other players.
In bad p2w games they get so overpowered to become godlike, solo killing groups of players, or soloing instances.
In good p2w games they get combat advantage, but not game-breaking, and other non-p2w players can also get to their level.
In ESO golden perfected trial gear is better, but skill and knowledge are much more important in combat, and it can be obtained by just playing the game, so its viewed as light p2w.

I disagree with the light pay to win term. It is either pay to win or it isn't. In this case it isn't. Not really pay for convenience either. At this point it might be pay to catch up.