A new (possibly) controversial account wide proposition.

Heartrage

I think that timers for quests, drops and rewards should be account wide with proportional better rewards. In other words, we shouldn't be able to repeat the same dailies on each one of our characters.

Here are my reasons:

1- Players will do what is most efficient even if it ends up being unfun and unsatisfying.

2- It's not fun to do the same quest over and over on all or many alts every day to farm rewards. The game becomes a chore.

3- Logging in and out of characters is not fun and ends up taking a lot of play time.

4- Some daily quests rewards have to be lesser to ensure the rarity of items. The lesser rewards force you to redo dailies on multiple characters to get the rare rewards. It would be better to only be able to do a daily once per day for 30% odds of getting an item rather than do the daily 10 times with a 5% odds each time.

5- Hirelings force you to log in and out of your characters and fill up your mailbox.

6- By making daily quests unrepeatable on alts, grinding new content's daily quest will be limited to once a day which would make exploring the rest of the new content easier for the grinders.

7- There are enough daily content in the game to occupy most if not all of a day of playing eso by only doing the daily content.

8- (Allegedly) Some daily coffers have secret drop timers that prevent the drop of rare items for a while once one is looted. It's probably to reduce the problem of people doing the same quest on a lot of characters and flooding the market with items. However, it's not explained in the game so most players probably still loot the coffers when they can't get the rare items and still farm those quests on many alts. We shouldn't have to keep track of these either to maximise our odds of getting rare items.

9- (Allegedly) There seems to be timers for rare furnishing plans and other drops in the game tied to characters. This is probably to ensure a more consistent and satisfying drop experience for players. However, to farm those items most efficiently, players will log in and log out of characters after they drop items that start these timers and rotate their alts to always be able to loot these items. Farming shouldn't involve logging in and out of characters.

10- (Unconfirmed) Holding the information of which characters have done which daily activities and have received their hireling rewards, processing all the timers and processing all the log in and log out of characters probably use a non insignificant amount of server ressources.

My solutions:

1- Make daily quests doable only once per account per day.

2- Increase daily quest rewards for exp, gold, odds and number of rare items, skill lines experience and companion reputation.

3- Add new different ways of getting skill line experience and companion reputation.

4- Make hirelings account wide so that we can log in on the character we want to play for the evening and so that we receive only one message per hireling type that includes the rewards for all our characters hirelings from that log in.

5- Remove the daily coffers timers, the daily quest new limit will control rare drop instead.

6- Remove the 50 daily quest cap. We should be able to do all our daily on one character if we want to.

7- Make the loot timers account wide or remove them.

The unresolved:

1- This doesn't prevent people from creating additional accounts to farm. I think that most probably won't because of the added difficulty and of the cost but : Players will do what is most efficient even if it ends up being unfun and unsatisfying.

2- There are probably some people that actually enjoy repeating the same daily quest on all their characters. I think they are a minority and that, of this minority, most will still find enjoyment from doing other things in the game.

3- There are probably people that will think it breaks roleplay. I would argue that if a character dealt with a quest, it make sense from a roleplay POV that the quest wouldn't be offered again on the same day.


What do you guys think?

haelgaan

why take away everyone else's gameplay? you don't enjoy it, don't do it.

Blinx

ohhhh heck no! I stopped reading at make daily quests doable once per account, as I am deligently forcing myself to do the damn Jar-Lee quests on my 4 toons due to needing 150 of them done!

Janni

Yeah. You make two false assumptions here. The first is that EVERYONE will ALWAYS do the thing they hate most if it maximizes their profit. We don't. And the second is that you assume people are ONLY doing it for the reward. We aren't. Some of us weirdos actually ENJOY doing some of these activities and the reward on top is just a nice bonus.

Besides, reducing dailies (especially pledges) would more than likely SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the population in the queue pool and make it take even longer to get them done when using the group finder.

SilverBride

I don't like alts being made less functional.

Heartrage

@Janni
Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say or believe these generalizations.

As for the pledges, this is a fair critique. Pledges and the first random group tools should be exempted from this.

dinokstrunz

Bad suggestions, you'd be okay with ruining the game for so many?

Grizzbeorn

No thank you please.

Tandor

By all means play the game the way you want, but please don't campaign for everyone else to be made to play it your way.

One point common to some of your concerns seems to be that you take a long time logging in and out of characters. That's not everyone's experience so it might be something you could resolve at your end.

In all other respects I'm with @SilverBride. Don't make alts even less functional than they've already just been made.

AcadianPaladin

If you don't want to repeat dailies on alts, feel free to do that - and you can now. Don't take away the choices of other players though.

I do the dailies I enjoy most and could care less about loot. Trying to force players into activities they don't enjoy is a loser.

peacenote

This either really wouldn't be good for inflation and/or would be extremely limiting to the way some folks make gold.

If you're going to repeat the quests on multiple characters, it SHOULD take some time. There should be some effort involved. Based on the fact that not everyone objected to AwA, we know there are likely a good percentage of folks out there who only have one character. (Someone - I think maybe Tandor - had a nice description of this on PTS so I won't try to recreate that here.) If ZOS raised the level of rewards to get anywhere near matching what people get/do if they take a bunch of alts and do all the quests on all characters, it would basically be handing a ton of free gold, mats, etc. to all the players who never made alts, never intended to make alts, and do not partake in this activity. Even if you received a reward that matched how many alts you had that could potentially do the activity, it still is making it much, much easier to do the activity and obtain the rewards. Just seems not great all around.

If ZOS didn't make the rewards so that they were the value of doing them on all potential characters per account, it would would be creating reward ceilings to activities, potentially removing revenue streams or forcing people into content they don't like. For example, maybe people are doing writs on 10 characters because that's how they make money in the game. If it was limited to once per account, they'd be forced to go do other things that possibly they enjoy less.

I'm not even going to go down the road of why this would be detrimental for folks who enjoy alts, as I think the above argument is really the worst "con." This would wreak havoc with the economy and player choice for how gold is earned.

Elvenheart

To the op, thank you for putting such effort into what is obviously a well thought out, detailed post. However, I am in the category of players who like things the way they are.

Hapexamendios

Sorry, I don't think that's a good idea.

bmnoble

You do realize that some dailies need to be unlocked on alts they don't just let you do them the moment you enter the zone.

Why should we lose functionality on alts, if you don't want to do content your not forced to, if other people want to do it that is their choice its their time to use how they see fit, aside from daily writs I rarely touch any of the daily quests I find next to none of them fun content at all.

The only point I agree with you on are the removal of the daily cap, never reached it myself probably never will but see not point in its existence at this point with so many zones and daily quests available now the cap should either be scrapped or raised.

As for making the hirelings only require one log in per account that would get abused, extremely quickly, with gold you can easily rush the crafting skills on new characters to the point you can get hireling mails, don't even need many skill points respec enough to cover the hirelings and forget the rest.

Someone with X number of accounts only needing to log in each once instead of 9 - 18 times, loots those mails then sends the mats to their main account to sell.




Mostly related to writs and the economy ignore if your not interested in reading about that:

The only dailies logging in and out of that is noticeable for are daily writs, people put a hell of a lot of time and work into setting up characters to be able to do it, especially the trait and motif knowledge for master writ drops, some only bought extra character slots for that purpose even other accounts.

If you think prices for mats are high now limit everyone to a single round of daily writs and watch the prices skyrocket, especially when you consider people are selling their excess mats and a lot less surveys a lot more people will start to hoard instead of sell.

The number of master writs, grand repair kits, soul gems, recipes, intricate gear will dry up on traders as well, heck a good chunk of the stock in guild traders comes directly from people doing daily writs.

Now you might say people will just gather more and refine to get their gold mats, the people buying those raw mats rely on selling everything from them, the demand for refined mats would tank, causing them to sell those gold mats for much more to make up the difference.

You might say with less gold being generated prices will go down, they might but it will be a long time, plenty of people have large hoards of gold, who can keep paying the current prices, all this will do is make it that much harder for newer or casual players to make gold.

You might say more people will switch to gathering mats for their gold, the next best thing after writs and crown selling. Now imagine a large amount of the player base doing that flooding the market, prices of raw mats would go down, as a lot of players are not willing to gamble refining for gold mats, while gold mats prices will remain high by those willing to take that gamble and refined mats will tank even further in price.

With more people farming the individual efficiency of each will drop for awhile, in the short term more furniture mats on the market, the prices will eventually tank and a lot of people will eventually stop doing it once the profits get too low, then supply will drop causing everything to shoot back up in price.

wolfie1.0.

ZOS needs the daily quest grind in order to keep the player base active.

You can only grind so much story, and lets be honest, after a certian point there isn't much of a reason to grind experience other than reaching CP cap. your solutions would speed up certain aspects of the game, but would also ruin other aspects that you leave unaddressed. Group Finder activities would decline, as would most activities in general, and players would in general abandon the game because once you reach a certain point there isn't much to do. With AWA (love it or hate it) there is already less. I and many others are not going to invest in a game where i just have an hour or two's worth of content every day for little to no return.

i also feel that you are under estimating just how many players enjoy doing daily content. For a lot of players this would be similar in scale to restricting an account's ability to 1 battle ground per day and 30-60 minutes of IC and Cyro PVP per day.

What i willl agree with you on is that the 50 daily cap limit should go.

in addition to that, All reward coffers should, in their tooltips, disclose if there is a timer involved and how long that timer is. this would be a very minimal QOL item.

Sylvermynx

Ugh. No thank you. You do you - a LOT of us want to do daily writs (for instance) on three or four characters.

SeaWoodStage

I get what you're saying OP, but that wouldn't suit my playstyle at all. I've spent almost three years bearing my alts in mind when it comes to what they actually do before they reach CP level. I levelled up their hirelings before combat, and I genuinely make the effort most days for them to go in and do the crafting writs (and as I'm on console, I actually do most of them every day). I also make the effort every day for my current secondary character to pick up and do the Mages/Undaunted/Fighters dailies.

Especially with loadouts available now, there's less and less reason for people to care about alt characters. I honestly still like mine, and hope that they'll always be able to do quests individually.

Janni

Heartrage wrote: »

@Janni
Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say or believe these generalizations.

As for the pledges, this is a fair critique. Pledges and the first random group tools should be exempted from this.

I didn't. I simply responded to your points with why they are poorly thought out. And just because you are making fair critique doesn't mean others don't get to make their own. This is the point of argument and discussion. You've made your points. I strongly disagree and made my counter-points. That's how it works.

EDIT: I should have read more closely. Sorry.

Heartrage

@bmnoble
I actually have the 18 characters with maxed crafting skills, motifs and most of their traits researched. I burned out of ESO many times because i was farming writs everyday.

As for the economy, this is a complicated subject. Crafting writs and master writs also reduce mats in the economy when you do them. People reaction to prices also stabilize with time, the economy of the game won’t alternate from high inflation to deep deflation. For new players, it’s true that buying stuff with gold farmed from mobs would be harder in your scenario. However, they would also be able to sell items for more gold to other players. Finally, I said that rewards should be adjusted and, while i didn’t specify writs, it should definitely be adjusted too and i feel like it was implied.

LostHorizon1933

I can see what you're trying to say -- change it from "many alts for few big rewards" to "a few alts for many big rewards".

However.

I actually just like crafting. One time I got all gold/rare materials in my rewards (like getting a full house in poker, kinda, and not your Texas stuff, real 5 or 7-card poker).

Some of the daily quests just aren't for individuals. I will team up when I have to. But I frequently have to play in a fairly narrow window of opportunity, and having to run around and find a group turns the "crappo" factor up to 10.

And finally, wouldn't do anything to screw over people in PvP at this point, they seem to always get treated as an afterthought. Plus, get rid of those "spy" missions and I'd never be in Cyrodiil at all!

Heartrage

@Janni

Janni wrote: »

Yeah. You make two false assumptions here. The first is that EVERYONE will ALWAYS do the thing they hate most if it maximizes their profit. We don't. And the second is that you assume people are ONLY doing it for the reward.

C’mon Janni, do you really believe that i assume that EVERYONE will ALWAYS do the thing they hate MOST if it maximize profit and that people ONLY do dailies for the reward or could it be a bit exaggerated?

Also, I complimented your critique for the pledges. I don’t know why you say that i don’t want people to critique what I said? I posted this discussion expecting critique. I called my proposition possibly controversial in the title.

alberichtano

Blinx wrote: »

ohhhh heck no! I stopped reading at make daily quests doable once per account, as I am deligently forcing myself to do the damn Jar-Lee quests on my 4 toons due to needing 150 of them done!

That they changed to only one quest per day per alt from six is just redonc.

Heartrage

@Blinx @alberichtano
I wasn’t aware of this achievement. Obviously, I think that it should be changed. Even currently, this sounds bad.

dmnqwk

There are 6 classes.
There are 4 roles (tank, healer, magDD, stamDD).
Six times Four is Twenty-Four.

So I can support your idea, provided you extend it to a limit of 1 per class/role combination. Otherwise you're just being mean.

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wolfie1.0.

Heartrage wrote: »

@bmnoble
I actually have the 18 characters with maxed crafting skills, motifs and most of their traits researched. I burned out of ESO many times because i was farming writs everyday.

As for the economy, this is a complicated subject. Crafting writs and master writs also reduce mats in the economy when you do them. People reaction to prices also stabilize with time, the economy of the game won’t alternate from high inflation to deep deflation. For new players, it’s true that buying stuff with gold farmed from mobs would be harder in your scenario. However, they would also be able to sell items for more gold to other players. Finally, I said that rewards should be adjusted and, while i didn’t specify writs, it should definitely be adjusted too and i feel like it was implied.

The economy is a tricky thing indeed. Because in game we have good examples of both rising and falling prices. Also, not all master writs are created equal. Jewelry daily crafting writs are likely the most valuable daily quest you can do on an average basis, yet Jewelry master writs are trashed by a majority of the community or sold so low they might as well not exist. The only reason people do jewelry daily writs is that they are a source of jewelry improvement items and one of a very few sources of chromium. Reducing jewelry surveys and chromium rewards will price many out of the market. Now you COULD say increase rewards from dailies in accordance to how many characters an account has or 18x the current amount but that would be a bad idea and brings me to my next point.

Also, it looks like one of your real goals is to save time. Spend it doing dailies less and gameplay more. Unfortunately, time itself is one of the limits to dailies as it is. Let me explain.

I by myself, have 30 eso accounts and roughly 300 character slots. 2/3rds of which are filled with character that can do crafting dailies. The one thing that limits me from doing 200 to 300 daily crafting writs is literally that I do not have the time to do it in a day. That is really it. As it is, if zos releases this not only do I save time I already have an advantage.... still.

And how would you prevent me from getting more?

Meanwhile I can still grind out more of the rare stuff to sell... that will be rarer.

Now IF zos extended the stickerbook style looting to include recipes, furnishings, motifs that might change things. Then again maybe not. Some motifs even with outfits have not really decreased in value even months after release. Making those harder to obtain... well.

wolfie1.0.

dmnqwk wrote: »

There are 6 classes.
There are 4 roles (tank, healer, magDD, stamDD).
Six times Four is Twenty-Four.

So I can support your idea, provided you extend it to a limit of 1 per class/role combination. Otherwise you're just being mean.

Ah but you see there is ranged and melee now as well. And then races to consider...

Heartrage

@wolfie1.0.
There’s a hole in your logic. From one hand you say that it would increase your output and from the other you say that stuff will be rarer? Do I misunderstand?

Janni

Heartrage wrote: »

@Janni

Janni wrote: »

Yeah. You make two false assumptions here. The first is that EVERYONE will ALWAYS do the thing they hate most if it maximizes their profit. We don't. And the second is that you assume people are ONLY doing it for the reward.

C’mon Janni, do you really believe that i assume that EVERYONE will ALWAYS do the thing they hate MOST if it maximize profit and that people ONLY do dailies for the reward or could it be a bit exaggerated?

Also, I complimented your critique for the pledges. I don’t know why you say that i don’t want people to critique what I said? I posted this discussion expecting critique. I called my proposition possibly controversial in the title.

Ok, you are right. I totally misread that second paragraph! I apologize for that.

As for the first point I took it to the logical extreme because I think that's where the case can be made the strongest. It seems a bit odd to say that some or maybe half or maybe lots or maybe almost nobody will try to minmax profits at the expense of fun simply so that it can be argued why it should be changed for everyone.

I'm probably in the same boat as you. I really don't like doing crafting writs on all of my toons so I usually just skip them most days unless I am really hardup for cash. So I can actually see why someone like myself would benefit from the changes you suggest. But as others pointed out it seems a bit unfair to take that away from everyone. And making some dailies exempt would seem equally unfair even if it would have a valid technical reason for being that way.

xaraan

Nah.

If the game had been structured this way from the start maybe. But at this point, you'd take away the ability that all those folks with multiple characters have done the work to open up and just reward people that haven't done that work by getting a "bigger" account wide reward.

So either you give those with just one character the same reward as those with multiple, thereby negating what they've done. Or you give the same basic rewards and just limit it to account wide, which would kind of leave those that haven't had years of doing multiple in the dust.

Not a fan of the idea in the game as it stands.

Amottica

I see the theme here as the first suggestion was for Zenimax to limit our activity with daily quests to only one round per account vs character while most of the rest of the suggestions are asking for Zenimax to make the game easier.

It is necessary to limit doing daily quests on multiple characters because some people only want to do it on one. Even if someone is an altoholic, there is a factor of self-restraint. I have a moto. I play the game and do not let it play me.

As for much of the rest, XP is already easy to get and we receive a lot of free XP boosts each month on top of multiple double XP events each year. The only real XP grind is companions and that is still rather limited compared to the XP required for CP.

As for drops, some should be rare. With gear, the grind has been made easier many times over by eliminating the need to find a specific trait and the smart loot drops.