Hybrid stat scaling questions

WhyMustItBe

So I have searched and read the patch notes and so far have not been able to find a clear answer to these questions.

With the new max stat ability scaling, does light/heavy attack now also scale off your highest offensive stat?

Being it is such a significant part of your DPS, it seems to sort of defeat the purpose of adding alt-stat abilities to your build if a large part of your damage is still gimped by light attack weaving not scaling with the associated weapon. Like it would negate the benefit of adding different weapon abilities if you had to use an alt-stat weapon for them who's light attacks didn't scale off your current max stat.

Also in keeping, does heavy attack now restore your highest offensive stat regardless of weapon? Again, seems to sort of negate the benefits if not.

Additionally, does Werewolf light attack and DoT now scale off your highest stat, or still just stamina? Does Werewolf heavy attack restore the highest stat or still just stamina?

I am also wondering if it might not be a better approach to just separate the blue and green bars into offense and defense for everything as it would seemingly make balance a lot easier.

kringled_1

Light/heavy attack damage scaling from either stat is something that happened in a previous update. Maybe Markarth or Flames of Ambition.
Resource restore from heavy attacks is still tied to the weapon type.
Not sure about werewolf.

WhyMustItBe

So if I read you right, light attacking with a staff weapon when I have 32k stamina and 14k magicka will scale its damage off max stamina? Or light attack with 32k magicka with a dagger will scale its damage off max magicka?

I guess it might be OK to have heavy attack stay weapon specific, as you could have one of each weapon type and swap bars to restore the resource of choice, though the DAMAGE part of heavy attack should also scale off highest stat, since there are builds built on heavy attack damage.

Do you know if the DAMAGE part of heavy attacks scale like light attacks?

Marginis

I believe heavy attacks should still restore the resources of their associated stat. The goal of the changes are to change the metagame from "not using half of your abilities because they use the wrong stat" to "choosing abilities based off your ability to manage resources".

No idea on damage of light/heavy attacks.

WhyMustItBe

So I think I am a bit confused here. Do weapon light/heavy attacks actually benefit at all from max stats, or is it purely weapon/spell damage? In that case would having higher weapon damage than spell damage make staff attacks scale off weapon damage, and would having higher spell damage than weapon damage make dagger attacks scale off spell damage?

I am also a little confused about how scaling works. Don't a lot of abilities scale off a combination of max stats AND weapon/spell damage? So is that now taken into account? Like if I had higher stamina than magicka, but higher spell damage than weapon damage, would abilities scale off max stamina and max spell damage?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

So I think I am a bit confused here. Do weapon light/heavy attacks actually benefit at all from max stats, or is it purely weapon/spell damage? In that case would having higher weapon damage than spell damage make staff attacks scale off weapon damage, and would having higher spell damage than weapon damage make dagger attacks scale off spell damage?

I am also a little confused about how scaling works. Don't a lot of abilities scale off a combination of max stats AND weapon/spell damage? So is that now taken into account? Like if I had higher stamina than magicka, but higher spell damage than weapon damage, would abilities scale off max stamina and max spell damage?

To the bold part, yes. Most things scale off both, and in the current system you can stack opposites. For example, my stamcro stacks stamina (why I still call him a stamcro), but also stacks spell damage. I do this because while I use mostly stamina skills, i do use the magic version of blastbones. That consumes a lot of magic since you cast every third skill, so for potions, I want to run something that gives me magic recovery. Makes it easy to just run spell pots and use spell damage glyphs on my jewerly, despite everything else being into stam (attributes and armor glyphs). There is no potion that gives magic recovery and also gives major brutality, so here we get magic recovery and major sorcery, so we just stack into spell damage.

Tannus15

weapon light and heavy attacks have been scaling off highest stats for a long time now, which is why parse videos will have dw/2h setups for all classes, all builds now.

little things on this topic:

templar should always stack spell damage to take advantage of their minor sorcery
dragon knights should always stack weapon damage to use their minor brutality

likewise sorcs and nightblades should be looking to take advantage of their minor prophecy and savagery

i don't think it's explicitly stated somewhere, but it seems to also be using your highest crit stat so you only need major proph or major sav, not both

Marginis

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

...I am also a little confused about how scaling works. Don't a lot of abilities scale off a combination of max stats AND weapon/spell damage? So is that now taken into account? Like if I had higher stamina than magicka, but higher spell damage than weapon damage, would abilities scale off max stamina and max spell damage?

Tannus15 wrote: »

weapon light and heavy attacks have been scaling off highest stats for a long time now, which is why parse videos will have dw/2h setups for all classes, all builds now.

little things on this topic:

templar should always stack spell damage to take advantage of their minor sorcery
dragon knights should always stack weapon damage to use their minor brutality

likewise sorcs and nightblades should be looking to take advantage of their minor prophecy and savagery

i don't think it's explicitly stated somewhere, but it seems to also be using your highest crit stat so you only need major proph or major sav, not both

Didn't ZoS say they were trying to hybridize major and minor buffs/debuffs too? I know they haven't merged some effects together yet, but they did say they changed all instances of buffs that focus on either spell stuff or weapon stuff to have both spell and weapon buffs on them, instead of just one (ie. what once gave minor sorcery should now give minor sorcery AND minor brutality).

kringled_1

Tannus15 wrote: »

weapon light and heavy attacks have been scaling off highest stats for a long time now, which is why parse videos will have dw/2h setups for all classes, all builds now.

little things on this topic:

templar should always stack spell damage to take advantage of their minor sorcery
dragon knights should always stack weapon damage to use their minor brutality

likewise sorcs and nightblades should be looking to take advantage of their minor prophecy and savagery

Always strikes me as a bit strong, as potion buffs (major brutality or sorcery) are still limited to one buff and tied to one kind of resource. Going to the off stat means you'd need to sacrifice a skill slot. It makes a lot of sense in a fully optimized trial group where you can plan on having say a dk provide igneous weapons for the group and maybe people are running dual stat heroism potions anyways. Looking at my solo arena builds, I'm not as sure if I want to give up the skill slot.

Dagoth_Rac

Marginis wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

...I am also a little confused about how scaling works. Don't a lot of abilities scale off a combination of max stats AND weapon/spell damage? So is that now taken into account? Like if I had higher stamina than magicka, but higher spell damage than weapon damage, would abilities scale off max stamina and max spell damage?

Tannus15 wrote: »

weapon light and heavy attacks have been scaling off highest stats for a long time now, which is why parse videos will have dw/2h setups for all classes, all builds now.

little things on this topic:

templar should always stack spell damage to take advantage of their minor sorcery
dragon knights should always stack weapon damage to use their minor brutality

likewise sorcs and nightblades should be looking to take advantage of their minor prophecy and savagery

i don't think it's explicitly stated somewhere, but it seems to also be using your highest crit stat so you only need major proph or major sav, not both

Didn't ZoS say they were trying to hybridize major and minor buffs/debuffs too? I know they haven't merged some effects together yet, but they did say they changed all instances of buffs that focus on either spell stuff or weapon stuff to have both spell and weapon buffs on them, instead of just one (ie. what once gave minor sorcery should now give minor sorcery AND minor brutality).

They specifically stated they are leaving minor sorcery/brutality (and I think minor savagery/prophecy) out of the hybridization due to their being tied into class identify and group utility. At least for now. They may revisit in the future.

Danel_Vadan

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

Didn't ZoS say they were trying to hybridize major and minor buffs/debuffs too? I know they haven't merged some effects together yet, but they did say they changed all instances of buffs that focus on either spell stuff or weapon stuff to have both spell and weapon buffs on them, instead of just one (ie. what once gave minor sorcery should now give minor sorcery AND minor brutality).

They specifically stated they are leaving minor sorcery/brutality (and I think minor savagery/prophecy) out of the hybridization due to their being tied into class identify and group utility. At least for now. They may revisit in the future.

They're dual sourcing sorcery/brutality and savagery/prophecy on gear and abilities; what they're not dual sourcing are class passives.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596681/update-33-combat-preview/p1
We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

Bradyfjord

I think what they're trying to accomplish with hybridization is to trim down the database. Which is more or less what they said was the reason for AWA. Like it or not, they've identified it as a priority so it's almost a certainty.