It's time to replace one of the two yearly dungeon DLCs with a PVP DLC

LonePirate

The PVP aspects of this game need to emerge from their forgotten stepchild status and be treated as a vital and important component of the game. The Cyrodiil map has not undergone any changes for a few years - not since the three far flung outposts were added. It's been even longer since the Alliance War skill trees have been updated with new skills. Apart from the toxic or useless item sets, the last major change in Cyrodiil, if you want to call it that, were the Antiquity siege weapons released back in 2020 as part of the Greymoor chapter. It's been maybe three years since the last new Battleground map was added. Imperial City has not seen any significant changes since its inception.

This game cranks out DLC dungeons as if there is an assembly line for them even though we have reached a saturation point for them. It's time to convert one of the dungeon DLCs to a PVP DLC. Give us some new skills. Expand the Cyrodiil map by pushing out the borders to encompass more land and objectives. Perhaps redesign the current keeps so we players must alter the offensive and defensive strategies around them. Add something like supply depots or some other new contested points of interest that provide different buffs. Perhaps swap out Volendrung for a different daedric weapon and make it spawn at more than 7 different locations on the map. Increase the number of Alliance War ranks beyond the current 50. Give us new Battleground maps or even new game modes. Maybe give us a new reason to spend time in the Imperial City or sewers apart from farming tel var stones. Heck, how about adding a completely different form of PVP such as jousting which seemed like a possibility when High Isle was announced given the presence of what looks like a jousting arena in the new zone. That new lawless land or prison or whatever it is in the new chapter would have been perfect for a PVP free for all or last player standing event.

PVP is long overdue for some updates, respect and equal treatment in this game. It needs to stop being an afterthought.

RisenEclipse

Honestly I have suggested this very thing in the past. We really don't need TWO dungeon DLCs. This game is not just a PvE game. I am by far not a PvPer, but I can see that the game is very slanted against PvPers in terms of content and updates. I would like to see more things added to PvP and maybe I can actually join in and become a PvPer. :P

Vaoh

Being realistic here.
ESO PvP has been awful for years and it has a 0% chance to become the popular, fun activity it once was. Also before someone attempts to have hope, no the lag is never going away.

If you value your time I highly recommend you only PvP for achievements, transmute crystals, or seals of endeavor. Play other games for good PvP.

ZOS answer to more PvP content is the card game btw. Not even joking. Leaderboards and all.

Grandchamp1989

Personly I would love some kind of gladiator 2v2 elimanation tournament.

I think 2v2 is a good number as you can que with a buddy and it helps prevent the endless fights 1v1 can be.
Low number also makes lag less likely.

Now imagine a gladiator arena like in Oblivion.
When you aint fighting you can spectate with the audience.

You que 2 people which makes a team.

It's elimination matches so if your team lose you're eliminated.
If you win you proceed in the mini tournament.

If you win 3 matches you're crowned arena champion and you get a reward. Maybe some AP and Telvar or a motif piece etc.

I think it would be really cool and maybe should be viable to make?


The arena in kvatch kinda makes me want to see this..

PvP_Exploiter

I empathise with the message, however we will never get a PvP "DLC" or "Chapter", for one simple reason.

You can't put PvP behind a paywall.

Not only would it segregate the already dwindling player base, but when you look at the main wishes of the community, they shouldn't be behind a paywall.

Obviously #1 on the list is performance, but that's beating a dead horse.
A real MMR system
Some way to have GvG events. Either group dueling or a separate queue, or a housing related.
Better BG queue system, they just reverted it back to what people complained about before this patch. Like where's the logic in that, just come up with something new based on feedback.

I believe the game deserves updates to PvP but they can't be the sole focus of a DLC or Chapter. Hell a new BG map thrown in to a quarterly update would go a long way. Might give us hope more PvP updates are coming.

dmnqwk

I think we need to see more PvP rewards where death ends the scenario, and failure to defeat all your opponents means a loss for EVERYBODY.

Something like a 4-team format with 6 groups ending an arena, and you have 5 minutes.
You enter a map and have to destroy all enemy teams to win.
If there are people from more than one team left standing, everybody LOSES (it's silly that in PvP there's always a winner)

Every minute something new can occur for the next minute like:
No Blocking/Invisibility/Stealth
Healing is reduced to 0%
When you use an ability over 7m it pulls them to you (can be triggered every 6 seconds)
Damage taken increased by 10% for every 10% of health you have
Max health reduced by 5% every 5 seconds
You deal 10% extra damage for every 10% missing Magicka/Stamina
AoE damage aura around everybody that harms all other players, including your own team
Heals now deal damage equal to 100% of the healing to all enemy players within 10m of the healed player. (with battle spirit the numbers should align)

I agree PvP gets neglected, because too many formats always have a winner which is something you don't get in PvE. Definitely need to see more failures in PvP format because they only gank people and don't brawl enough!

kargen27

The PvP player base doesn't need to be spread any thinner. As others have said performance is the big issue. If performance were fixed a good number of the PvP'rs that left would come back in a hurry.

Would be good to get some PvP events within the content we do have though. Not sure what that would be. The events we have now I really more PvE oriented but just take place in a PvP zone. Not something that most the PvP crowd are looking for.

Wolfpaw

I would pay for a battle pass with unique great rewards: mounts, costumes, skins, styles, etc...as long as it was not just through AP gains, but actual PvP.

That said performance is good on PS5, but also could be a lot better. The only performance issues I have now is when red or yellow show up with their whole server (pretty much the only way they fight as of late) to fight 20 blues.

Very well could be wrong, but I don't see much Zenimax can improve for last gen consoles.

Amottica

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

I empathise with the message, however we will never get a PvP "DLC" or "Chapter", for one simple reason.

You can't put PvP behind a paywall.

Not only would it segregate the already dwindling player base, but when you look at the main wishes of the community, they shouldn't be behind a paywall.

Obviously #1 on the list is performance, but that's beating a dead horse.
A real MMR system
Some way to have GvG events. Either group dueling or a separate queue, or a housing related.
Better BG queue system, they just reverted it back to what people complained about before this patch. Like where's the logic in that, just come up with something new based on feedback.

I believe the game deserves updates to PvP but they can't be the sole focus of a DLC or Chapter. Hell a new BG map thrown in to a quarterly update would go a long way. Might give us hope more PvP updates are coming.

I agree with the reasons this person notes as to why there will not be another PvP DLC.

phairdon

End the three banners war. Let Cyrodiil be rebuilt/become a pve zone. Create a new theater of war for pvp somewhere else in Tamriel or move it to another continent?

LesserCircle

Yes, just something please. Like even new maps for battlegrounds would be a great thing, it can't be that hard.

Rezdayn

People on both sides of this argument are somewhat blind...

PvP clearly doesn't pull in the money. PvE clearly does. So PvP won't ever get a 50/50 content release split.

PvP should get more content and more often. I agree. However it doesn't pull in the same money so it won't pull in the same release rates.

However... I hate the "take away this and add this" argument. PvP would be a focus if it pulled in money. PvE should not suffer because PvP doesn't bring in the same money and dollar commitment from the community.

Once again... PvP definitely should get more content. Way more often as well. However PvE would be their priority for a reason.

I respect anyone who plays this game as a PvP main. I don't understand why you would. You get no content and what I hear is poor performance. It's weird you are still here. I respect it though. I would of moved on from this game if PvP was my focus. I got emp, rank 50 etc and moved back to PvE asap.

I hope you all get more content and more regularly.

However... Once again... PvP is a second thought because of the dollars and cents.

I hope one day ZOS puts in PvP content even PvE players want to join in on... And new fresh PvP ideas... More regularly... However it's probably not going to happen...

alberichtano

Rezdayn wrote: »

People on both sides of this argument are somewhat blind...

PvP clearly doesn't pull in the money. PvE clearly does. So PvP won't ever get a 50/50 content release split.

PvP should get more content and more often. I agree. However it doesn't pull in the same money so it won't pull in the same release rates.

However... I hate the "take away this and add this" argument. PvP would be a focus if it pulled in money. PvE should not suffer because PvP doesn't bring in the same money and dollar commitment from the community.

Once again... PvP definitely should get more content. Way more often as well. However PvE would be their priority for a reason.

I respect anyone who plays this game as a PvP main. I don't understand why you would. You get no content and what I hear is poor performance. It's weird you are still here. I respect it though. I would of moved on from this game if PvP was my focus. I got emp, rank 50 etc and moved back to PvE asap.

I hope you all get more content and more regularly.

However... Once again... PvP is a second thought because of the dollars and cents.

I hope one day ZOS puts in PvP content even PvE players want to join in on... And new fresh PvP ideas... More regularly... However it's probably not going to happen...

Yep. Money talks, as they say.

I do wonder though... wouldn't it be interesting to do a PvP/delve mix? I mean, like a maze with traps and dead ends and gates that open and close periodically, but rather than mobs and bosses, it is PvP for two or three groups? Just a spontaneous thought. It would certainly be new.

Vevvev

Every time in the past ZOS has tried to make something PvP specific and put it behind a paywall it's failed.

Imperial City and Battlegrounds both were behind paywalls at one point and their lights burned out incredibly quickly, and with them being so undersold and visited were made base game for a dang good reason. Reason being is people enjoy PvPing where the people are because PvP content requires other people in order for it to work. Why people all frolic to the Gray Host outside events is because that's where the action is.

Better to ask for PvP things to use in the PvP zones in the PvE expansions than ask for a new PvP zone or DLC entirely. It'll probably succeed better. One example was the Lancers you get from Antiquities that you can use in Cyrodiil. I'd like to see more stuff like that.

Sluggy

Look, I'm a person who loved PvP in this game but here's the deal - If you add up every person that is participating in PvP activities on a busy night I would be willing to bet that it doesn't even reach two-thousand people on the busiest platform. That's between all Campaigns, Imperial Cities, Battle Ground matches, Dueling, and whatever else. If you stripped away everything else and just made this a PvP game that would be considered a niche title with a tiny but dedicated playerbase.

That right there is the reason you can enter Imperial City and see maybe the same four people all night. That right there is the reason you have to wait in Battle Grounds for an hour to get a single match. Probably more than half of the people in battlegrounds are just there for the daily and then they are done for the day. There simply are not enough people doing it in order to sustain a constant matching-making service. Spreading this group of people even thinner is only going to make the problem worse. More long queue times. More empty zones.

The truth is PvP is a niche activity in this game. It's a fun side distraction that doesn't get enough attention from the vast majority of players to warrant excessive time and money being spent on it. Not something a huge conglomerate would be interested in, yeah? And by ZoS's own words they really don't intent to do anything more for it. Furthermore, some things that have been said hint that it's likely that PvP activities will be getting scaled down even. So I'd say be happy with what you have for now because for all intents and purposes official support for this activity is ended.

mwo1480

while a new pvp dlc would be nice,
i would prefer if the totally revamp of the current pvp

like semi revamp of cyro ( remove town ownerships, new achivements that give rewards like pvp exclusive mounts, emotes, outfits. new siege weapons, remove of hammer, visual update to make the keeps look more unique, banners of guild owning the keep on the walls for exemple)

revamp of ic (make it more aluring for non ganking players)

bringing back old battleground modes, but give them a different que from deathmatch

and less stupid updates that ruin pvp, like now the healing change and the account pvp rank achivements/former emperor. wich takes away the whole reason to lvl new pvp chars

and they should stop making pvp breaking sets, they claim it will help the normal players, but they are mostly used by certain already broken groups and making less people wanna play pvp (kinda like zos is hoping that pvp in eso will die)

new pvp dlcs will not work with current way the game works

Stamicka

I'm with you, I really want working PvP, more PvP content, and current PvP improvements. PvP in this game (especially in previous years) has been the most fun I have had on any game ever. It's so sad that the game has been turned into a housing/ solo exploration game. In fact, one of the most positive pieces of feedback that I've seen about the latest dungeon DLC is that the dungeons are more solo friendly on Normal than other dungeons.

With feedback like that in mind, you start get a glimpse of why PvP gets so little focus. If these players don't even like to play with others, I can't imagine that they want to play against others. Unfortunately, I think that the demographic I am describing has become the majority. 7 years of bad changes, lack of acknowledgement, and poor performance have selected for a demographic that doesn't and wouldn't PvP. At this point there would need to be some serious rebranding and fixes to shift the majority demographic to the non-casual PvP type.

alberichtano

mwo1480 wrote: »

while a new pvp dlc would be nice,
i would prefer if the totally revamp of the current pvp

like semi revamp of cyro ( remove town ownerships, new achivements that give rewards like pvp exclusive mounts, emotes, outfits. new siege weapons, remove of hammer, visual update to make the keeps look more unique, banners of guild owning the keep on the walls for exemple)

revamp of ic (make it more aluring for non ganking players)

bringing back old battleground modes, but give them a different que from deathmatch

and less stupid updates that ruin pvp, like now the healing change and the account pvp rank achivements/former emperor. wich takes away the whole reason to lvl new pvp chars

and they should stop making pvp breaking sets, they claim it will help the normal players, but they are mostly used by certain already broken groups and making less people wanna play pvp (kinda like zos is hoping that pvp in eso will die)

new pvp dlcs will not work with current way the game works

You mean that you would want the artists to work with mounts, outfits and emotes that CANNOT be monetised? Dude, bro!!

kargen27

"PvP clearly doesn't pull in the money. "

This is pretty much wrong. The PvP crowd needs the new content so they can get the gear locked behind that content. Much of the good PvP gear comes from PvE activities.

In Cyrodiil players spend a lot of time on their mounts. They have as much or more incentive to chase those exclusive mounts. I've seen groups of 15 that all used the same rare wolf mount. That had to take some cash to get everybody on those mounts.
And they care about their armor styles or costumes just like the PvE crowd does. Gotta look good when standing atop a captured keep.

drunkendx

NO

colossalvoids

RisenEclipse wrote: »

We really don't need TWO dungeon DLCs.

You*

Personally that's only two releases a year worth the price. To each their own.

joerginger

It is long past time to replace the two yearly dungeons with something. PvP? You would need to get players to actually want to play PvP. In this game it is very difficult to find a reason to want to be in a PvP area.

But getting rid of any new dungeon DLCs is something that is long overdue. There are already several billions of gear sets in the game and the normal chapter and DLC already add thousands more each year, why are there dungeons that keep adding to this mess constantly? What is the point?

As has been mentioned already, putting whatever-PvP in a paid DLC is most likely an abysmally bad idea because it would spread the PvP people even further and would most likely not appeal to that many players. The Imperial City DLC was given away, yet despite ZOS putting tickets there in what feels like every single newer event, the zone is still mostly ignored or hated.

ArchMikem

Changing a DLC to PvP centric would only change the crowd the complaints come from. I personally wouldn't mind something cause I'm decent at PvP, plus I'd love some TLC done to Cyrodiil.

peacenote

Thanks to AwA, the re-playability of dungeons has gone way down, so I completely disagree that two dungeons DLCs aren't enough. If anything, they aren't enough now! I now need way more speed, hard mode, trifectas to keep me busy than I did before when I could go after them on all my characters.

That said, I'm in full support of more PvP anything. I do both. I support both. I enjoy both. But I don't support pitting PvE against PvP or asking for a reduction in content in any way.

xclassgaming

NO NO AND NO! NO MORE PVP CONTENT! Pvp ruins the game, it should just be removed entirely it really is more trouble then it's worth.

xDeusEJRx

I think pvp does need help, but I think the thing pvp really needs are things that can't be sold as "DLCS".

-Better cyrodiil experience (performance is the obvious thing to say here, but there's a lot to talk about cyrodiil and things that need to change like maybe reworking ap ticks adding more tick drops in game like "pushing objective ticks", cause sometimes you can't always actually push on the map.

-Better battleground experience (better queue system, new maps, new gamemodes, maybe bring back the damage sigils that existed in BG's when it first started, any content really)

-A reason to play imperial city (It's fun to run around here and farm but people just don't care to play in IC because the people here are just here to make money off farming npcs for telvar, not to PVP and groups that get wiped just leave when people who pvp show up, they need to create a reason for people to want to pvp here. And also rework maybe the telvar loss

-Group v Group content (It's funny how most pvp instances are group v group content but there's no actual way to set up a normal GvG fight without some objective in the way(Bg's and cyrodiil castle sieges). With how group focused most pvp instances are you'd think they'd just have a regular group v group death match style of battle but there isn't(I know battlegrounds exists but you can't even queue for a group deathmatch)

-Better rewards(like maybe include battleground leaderboards to drop ALL pvp sets you get in cyrodiil, it's ridiculous that you only get battleground sets as rewards for being in top 100)

All these things are I things I thing pvp need but you can't really sell any of this except maybe adding group v group content by making like a pvp gauntlet or something to do group battles or a dueling house where you can do group duels that they could sell in crown store.

Northwold

Stamicka wrote: »

In fact, one of the most positive pieces of feedback that I've seen about the latest dungeon DLC is that the dungeons are more solo friendly on Normal than other dungeons.

With feedback like that in mind, you start get a glimpse of why PvP gets so little focus. If these players don't even like to play with others, I can't imagine that they want to play against others. Unfortunately, I think that the demographic I am describing has become the majority.

I'm not sure that's necessarily the right takeaway. I'm an almost entirely solo player. But the reason I'm not into PvP is I don't want to work *with* people, I don't want to group up in a team of strangers, and I don't want to be part of a "team" fighting a war.

But if there were an enjoyable format of every player for themselves, assuming it was properly matched to players' levels (roughly speaking), *that I would love to play*. In other words, PvP. Not groups-of-P-v-groups-of-P.

Tommy_The_Gun

If Imperial City was a smash hit & well received DLC and it would sell well - we would have had more PvP zones & content like this by now. But instead ZOS had to make IC into a free DLC, hoping it would get more populated.... And it did not helped. IC is probably the most empty zone in the entire game. Even in weekends it is never fully populated. This zone is pretty much only fully populated during PvP events, usually at the start of the event, but closer to the end it gets more empty... and it is not like players are there because they are having fun. They are there to get event related motives that are exclusive to the IC... ZOS is really desperate when it come to IC & how to make it more populated.

If ZOS has learned anything on Imperial City it is not to make a mixed PvPvE zone. Chances of adding a new PvP zone are very slim, and ZOS will probably never add other zone like this.

But it is not like there is absolutely "zero" new PvP content. Every now & then (regularly) ZOS adds new BG map. Also, technically new update will bring um... a "card game" and it will be possible to play against other players too, so it is um... a new "PvP" content.... but I guess it is not PvP content that ESO players dreamed about or wanted.

Tannus15

ZoS have strongly communicated that they are rebuilding and refactoring their code to address what their data analysis and various live tests have identified as the culprit of the lag issues with cyrodil and the game in general.

They have also stated that until that rebuild is complete there will be no further additions to PvP because they don't want to make a bad situation worse, like they did when they added mile bridges and volendrung.

I wouldn't be surprised if they go hard at cyro updates if they can get the game running well, but until that day don't expect anything major on the PvP front.