Any Armor, any weight?

vesselwiththepestle

Hey all!

Armor passives have changed a lot and hybridized. We've seen a lot hybrization of set piece bonusses. Now we'll get hybridization of stats. Additionally with got a great collection/reconstruction system for armor pieces from loot tables.

So why shouldn't we able to reconstruct any armor in any weight we want?

Let us reconstruct Elf Bane as light armor? Heavy Alkosh? Medium Siroria?

What do you think of it? Will this increase build diversity or reduce it? Would this allow totally OP set combinations or make theorycrafting more interesting? Would you personally like this change or not?

ADarklore

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

Why? When you can already use an Outfit to change the style to match whatever weight you want. Do you really think ZOS is going to make this change and lose sales on Outfits??!

atherusmora

Other

Knee jerk says no. Stam users are already gonna be leaving mag in the dust thanks to OP heals with new scaling next patch. On the flip side, I could finally put PB on my magsorc body, and really push that damage.

TechMaybeHic

Other

I'm a no, but not TERRIBLE idea. I'd just rather they start making new sets which are essentially old ones in different weight rather than keep coming up with ridiculous new proc sets escalating toxic play.

Arunei

ADarklore wrote: »

Why? When you can already use an Outfit to change the style to match whatever weight you want. Do you really think ZOS is going to make this change and lose sales on Outfits??!

This has nothing to do with Outfits. The point is being able to make a set like Medusa's in Light Armor instead of Heavy so you could get Light Armor passives for it instead of Heavy ones.

I think it would be nice, but it would probably end up being a nightmare balance-wise.

the1andonlyskwex

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

Sylvermynx

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

This.

starkerealm

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

PvP would degenerate back into, "here's a trio of obnoxious proc sets, but this time in heavy armor."

Yeah, you're 100% correct. It's a cool idea, but it would be an utter nightmare for balance.

Hescrow

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

Would be a mess for balancing lol.
Counterparts would be killed.

JobooAGS

ADarklore wrote: »

Why? When you can already use an Outfit to change the style to match whatever weight you want. Do you really think ZOS is going to make this change and lose sales on Outfits??!

Fun fact, your outfit doesn’t match the sounds of the armor you actually wear. Legit you can be wearing plate armor, but pick out the skimpiest outfit possible in your outfit, but still clank around like a kitchen as if you’re in plate. Kinda ruins immersion a bit if you are going down the rp route and don’t want to constantly change armors.

Tommy_The_Gun

Good idea, because

I think this is something that we have a solid chance to see in the future. Especially after after armour passives rebalance / hybridization.

Dagoth_Rac

Good idea, because

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

How is Medusa in heavy preventing it from being overpowered? It drops in all gear slots, so people use weapon + jewelry. Thus, you get the effects of Medusa but suffer no heavy armor penalties. About all that would be gained by Medusa light/medium is cutting down on the grind to farm weapons and jewelry. There is really no set in the game that people do not wear because of armor weight. It just means more grind. Having armor in every weight feels more like a QoL change to cut down on grind time, not a balance problem.

AlnilamE

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

It's not a horrible idea, but I think having to make SOME choices when making a build based on what passives you get or don't is better than just being able to always get what you want.

Otherwise they might as well just make every set craftable and call it a day.

the1andonlyskwex

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

How is Medusa in heavy preventing it from being overpowered? It drops in all gear slots, so people use weapon + jewelry. Thus, you get the effects of Medusa but suffer no heavy armor penalties. About all that would be gained by Medusa light/medium is cutting down on the grind to farm weapons and jewelry. There is really no set in the game that people do not wear because of armor weight. It just means more grind. Having armor in every weight feels more like a QoL change to cut down on grind time, not a balance problem.

As-is, you can't pair Medusa with another heavy set, and you have to run at least two heavy pieces if you want to pair it with something like Crushing Wall. Also, it's already really strong, so it wouldn't take much to make it overpowered.

Like I said before though, the bigger problem would be people converting light and medium sets to heavy for PvP.

Heartrage

Good idea, because

Yes please, my sticker book is 3/4 completed and i need more before i run out of sets to collect!!!

Hamfast

Other

I picked "Other" because while I like the idea, I can see it being a good deal of work for the developers... As @Dagoth_Rac said, most armors drop in all slots so you can use weapons and jewelry if your armor requirements are different then how it drops, it makes any set useful in any build, as long as you can farm enough...

The work comes from the extra armor designs that would be required to allow each set to be made/recreated in every armor weight, because, for example Ebon Armory is a unique armor style, to recreate that armor in light or medium would require that same unique armor style be expanded to include light and medium, Worms would need medium and heavy, and if I remember correctly, Hircine would need light and heavy (I think that is the unique medium set)

On the other hand, as a crafter, I would like to be able to make armor in every style available, including the unique ones, so under this same idea, why can't we recreate armor with any style we know as well, this would not require the design work because those designs already exist, it would just mean the armor we recrate for ourselves would benefit from the work we did gaining the different motif chapters... if the devs decide this is a good idea and design the different armor styles to match each set, also make motifs out of them and allow us to add the style material into the reconstruction process to change the outward style of the armor we are recreating.

the1andonlyskwex

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

Heartrage wrote: »

Yes please, my sticker book is 3/4 completed and i need more before i run out of sets to collect!!!

I don't think what's being proposed would help you with that. My understanding of the proposal is that sets wouldn't drop in any additional weights, you would just be able to reconstruct them as whatever you want.

BXR_Lonestar

Other

I think this is a good idea but it depends on how Zos goes about implementing it. I can totally see them forcing us to collect light/medium/heavy versions of ALL armor in order to be able to do that, which would just add to frustration levels IMO. If unlocking the whole set made it so you could make that armor in any weight? That would be completely different, and I could support THAT implementation of the system.

hafgood

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

No. Explanation? I don't see why I should have to explain why I think its bad.

But as you asked - because of balance. It would ultimately reduce choice rather than increase. Trial groups would get even more specific about gear.

Just no

Hamfast

Other

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

How is Medusa in heavy preventing it from being overpowered? It drops in all gear slots, so people use weapon + jewelry. Thus, you get the effects of Medusa but suffer no heavy armor penalties. About all that would be gained by Medusa light/medium is cutting down on the grind to farm weapons and jewelry. There is really no set in the game that people do not wear because of armor weight. It just means more grind. Having armor in every weight feels more like a QoL change to cut down on grind time, not a balance problem.

As-is, you can't pair Medusa with another heavy set, and you have to run at least two heavy pieces if you want to pair it with something like Crushing Wall. Also, it's already really strong, so it wouldn't take much to make it overpowered.

Like I said before though, the bigger problem would be people converting light and medium sets to heavy for PvP.

You can't really "Pair" any of the Arena/AS weapons with any armor set as they are singular weapons and not full sets. most builds that use the crushing wall maelstrom arena staff use it on the back bar because it's effects can still be felt when you switch back to your front bar.

While I do understand your point about how this idea may break PvP for a few weeks until people adapt to the changes (as they have with every change), I don't think this would affect PvP for that long... perhaps the "No CP" campaigns could restrict armor to "Original weight Only"...

AcadianPaladin

Good idea, because

I think it would be a good idea in the long run but would take some significant midterm adjustments by the devs. The upside could be flexibility and reduction in the overwhelming number of sets by dumping redundant sets. Why do we need Spinner and Sprggans both? Same for Rattlecage and Dreugh King Slayer. Current armor has been designed based on a stam/med vs mag/light model and that model is changing. So should sets.

Grandchamp1989

Good idea, because

It seems like the natural progression from the hybrid to be able to make things at any weight.

WrathOfInnos

Good idea, because

Yep, this one seems like the next step for opening up gear sets and build options.

I haven't seen any examples that concern me. Medusa is a joke currently, partially because it is heavy, but moreso because it is a worse version of the medium armor set Tzogvins (1% less crit, doesn't carry over to back bar, missing a whole set bonus of penetration). A medium or light option for medusa is not going to make it overpowered, it won't even be meta.

wolfie1.0.

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

Because zos should focus on giving me better quality of life features than this right now.

peacenote

Other

I picked other because my answer is - I'm not sure.

I think that for the bigger picture it's probably not a good idea for the game.

However it may not impact as much as people think. As a healer, I have to farm and carry a gazillion sets and the fact that something only comes in heavy or medium is easily worked around by making it the weapon and jewelry set. So, it won't keep people from using sets in builds and roles that lend themselves to other armor weights, because we're doing that now. What it will do is keep people from completely doubling up. For healing, for example, one of my sets needs to be a light set! But the other one can be any set in the game, regardless of weight.

And while I would like it, when I am missing one piece of jewelry or whatever, that I could just substitute a body piece instead, it would probably negatively impact one of the only effective gold sinks we have left in the game (jewelcrafting) by making it easier to acquire the cheapest jewelry and allowing us to more easily re-make the most affordable pieces to match needed weights.

Finally, I'm assuming that ZOS carefully thought about balancing re-playability and farming gear when they made the stickerbook changes - farming for weapons and jewelry because we're limited to using one set outside of our desired armor weight may have factored into those calculations. Considerations like... will anyone still be in the vet dungeon queue if they get stickerbook and can re-make anything in any weight? At least this way there is some motivation to go back and unlock all of your jewelry, or get multiple purple rings, etc.

I will add that I anticipated that adding jewelcrafting and therefore allowing crafted sets to have crafted jewelry was going to significantly change what sets people would be wearing... and I was definitely wrong. I thought it would open up more BIS options with those sets and it really didn't make much of a difference.

So... I can see it ending up in the game, but I am on the fence about whether this would be a good thing or even have much of an impact.

DreamyLu

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

It's good that people keep being creative and propose new ideas, but in the end, egoistically, I would prefer that priority goes to bug fixing and improvements before to start with concepts changes.

tonyblack

Good idea, because

Good idea. More theory crafting possibilities and better variety of good set combinations. Also, it would be nice to have some additional transmutes sink.

mocap

i also don't see how heavy medusa prevents us from being OP. If you mean another crit set, then you can go Medusa + Sorrow or Medusa + Leviathan, already.

vesselwiththepestle

A set like Medusa would only become OP in my opinion, if there would be another heavy/medium set you could combine it with then. For example Medusa + Berserking Warrior. Honestly I don't see it. Especially as there are already light armor alternatives to Medusa of very similar strength.

I think what might get OP are support sets in PVP, when you can combine two support sets (which are almost all light) of whatever and still wear heavy armor.

Most definitely we would see even higher specialized meta builds and thus a wider difference between the bottom and the ceiling. However, I think the impact on PVP would be far greater than on PVE.

Amottica

Terrible idea - and I'll explain why

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

Balance was my first thought as well.

MEBengalsFan2001

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It would be a balance nightmare.

Medusa in light is a good example of the problem. The fact that Medusa is heavy is part of what keeps it from being overpowered. That said, I think most of the problems would come from people converting light and medium armor sets to heavy for PvP.

You mean like converting Swift from Light to Medium or Heavy. Or converting something heavy like Kynmarcher to Medium or Light. Pariah as a light set, oh no...

It would make customizing more unique. I mean we somewhat already can do this with crafting sets where some are clearly meant to be light, heavy or medium but with crafting we are able to set it up how we want.

Ancient Dragon Guard IMO is a set design around a medium character with both good offensive and defensive stat but you can craft heavy or light piece to give you flexibility.