Gives us a way to class change

Zezin

Either as part of U34 or as part of the High Isle chapter. If I'm being honest I'd prefer if it were part of the chapter, that way I'd have an actual reason to buy it, because right now I have none. Bringing it as part of the chapter would vastly increase the value behind it, and I believe the community is tired of things being added as cash grabs, having to pay 1500 crowns for a "class slot" or 3000 for a class change token is just too much for something that costs no more than a fraction of a second of server processing.

AlnilamE

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

tinythinker

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Not everyone enjoys alts, and some people are attached to specific characters.

I doubt they will ever do class changes regardless of how account-wide achievements are handled in the end, but no harm in asking for it. I wouldn't mind changing some existing characters to another class.

O_LYKOS

Class change is massively unnecessary imo. It’s not hard to level a character. Learn to play the class. Hit 50. And you’re all set. The quality of life right now is great. They keep on giving. But some people will never be happy.

AlnilamE

tinythinker wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Not everyone enjoys alts, and some people are attached to specific characters.

I doubt they will ever do class changes regardless of how account-wide achievements are handled in the end, but no harm in asking for it. I wouldn't mind changing some existing characters to another class.

Hey, I'd rather they bring in class change than implement the account-wide achievements the way they are doing it, but the main argument for having class change was to preserve the achievements on their main. That's no longer an issue, so now you can create the exact same character, just of a different class and pretend it's the same.

Amottica

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Pretty much this.

It is my guess, and a guess that makes sense, that Zenimax makes money off people rolling alts. Players spend money on everything from mount training to buying sky shards and skill lines, and even a special mount or costume for the new toon.

So there is a business interest in having us roll alts that likely greatly outweighs selling a class change token.\. It does not matter if an individual player would not buy any of those items since there would be enough players that do. There is a reason why those items are available.

AcadianPaladin

Would love a class change ability. Quoting my comments from another thread:

'Achievements and Class Change are not related for me. I don't care a bit about achievements or titles. But I would very much like to change a class that I fully brought up and, after a thorough try, did not work out.

If I could simply change class on such a character it would avoid the grind for: Mount training, Undaunted, Psijic, FG, MG, Legardemain, Antiquities, Alliance skills, med/light/hvy armor, skyshards, wayshrines, opening all maps and areas for ease of getting around. . . . Note, I've said nothing about getting a new character to level 50 or leveling up their class skills - those elements are insignificant compared to the other items on my list.

I love PLAYING the game, but just don't have it in me to repeat all the above for a new character after doing so on nearly a dozen of them.'

HertoginJanneke

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Leveling a toon to cp level is easy. It's not only about achievements, but also the leveling of all guilds, weapons, armor, world and crafting skill lines (did I forget something here ? which takes forever. And not everyone has unlimited time to do this and unlimited funds to pay for skillines.

It's also not different from a racechange. I can use the same argument for removing that from the crownstore : [...], why would you need that? Just make an alt of the class race you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Tommy_The_Gun

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Something tells me that ZOS was considered adding a class change token, but they ended up with account wide achievements, to leave the "gate" for power creep classes that will be for sure available in the future, in the cash shop.

I mean, with account wide achievements, the idea of "I mained X character" is kinda less relevant. Because right now it will be determined by completed quests & levelled skill lines. Skyshards & some other skill lines can be bought in the store.

ZOS was probably afraid that if they add class change token, all of the sudden you will not see almost any class variety, as pretty much everyone who wants to stay competitive, will switch to whatever is most OP class at the moment.

Basically speaking - adding a class change token right now, would probably reveal lack of class balance in ESO and force zos to actually make classes balanced. Imho It would be good, but for some reason ZOS things otherwise.

drsalvation

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

yeah, going skyshard hunting on a horse with 0 speed, 0 stam, 0 carry weight default carry bag space, and spending another year and a half upgrading horse isn't really something I'm looking forward in an alt, let alone all quests, delves, dungeons all over again...
I can't think of any other reason to have alts other than physical appearances (and classes)

Eric_Prince

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Would love a class change ability. Quoting my comments from another thread:

'Achievements and Class Change are not related for me. I don't care a bit about achievements or titles. But I would very much like to change a class that I fully brought up and, after a thorough try, did not work out.

If I could simply change class on such a character it would avoid the grind for: Mount training, Undaunted, Psijic, FG, MG, Legardemain, Antiquities, Alliance skills, med/light/hvy armor, skyshards, wayshrines, opening all maps and areas for ease of getting around. . . . Note, I've said nothing about getting a new character to level 50 or leveling up their class skills - those elements are insignificant compared to the other items on my list.

I love PLAYING the game, but just don't have it in me to repeat all the above for a new character after doing so on nearly a dozen of them.'

This. Every damn word. I have no problem with levelling alt. I even can spend a few evenings grinding skyshards and skill lines. But all the guilds, Antiquities (oh no) and so on... Just no. I barely did this all on one char. I want to play the game on a specific character that I like, not grind mindlessly.

AlnilamE

drsalvation wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

yeah, going skyshard hunting on a horse with 0 speed, 0 stam, 0 carry weight default carry bag space, and spending another year and a half upgrading horse isn't really something I'm looking forward in an alt, let alone all quests, delves, dungeons all over again...
I can't think of any other reason to have alts other than physical appearances (and classes)

I currently have a level 37 on EU, where I have no champion points, so I do understand.

But with the change in achievements, you won't have to repeat quests if you don't want to, so you only need enough skill points to put your build together. I don't grind to level, but you can do randoms as you level and get the skill points from the dungeon quests as they unlock.

My alts are different characters with different stories, and their races (and sometimes classes) fit that background.

duagloth

Still waiting for a valid arguement against it. It affects no one other than the account holder and we already have race/alliance change. "Leveling is easy" is not a vaild arguement, were looking for convience not more grinding. If development makes unwanted drastic changes, the customer should be offered something in return.

AlnilamE

duagloth wrote: »

Still waiting for a valid arguement against it. It affects no one other than the account holder and we already have race/alliance change. "Leveling is easy" is not a vaild arguement, were looking for convience not more grinding. If development makes unwanted drastic changes, the customer should be offered something in return.

Again, if the choice was between class change and account-wide achievements, then class change would have my vote because I wouldn't use it.

My only condition would be that anyone who uses it signs a waiver saying they'll never post "ZOS is nerfing class X to sell class changes" on the forums.

That said, there seem to be some technical challenges to do this, so ZOS decided that account-wide achievements was going to satisfy a big enough portion of the group that was asking for class changes and did that instead.

Sealish

duagloth wrote: »

Still waiting for a valid arguement against it. It affects no one other than the account holder and we already have race/alliance change. "Leveling is easy" is not a vaild arguement, were looking for convience not more grinding. If development makes unwanted drastic changes, the customer should be offered something in return.

If you really think about it, "Leveling is Easy" is actually an argument in FAVOR of having class change tokens. The only (gameplay) reason people give for not having class change tokens (ZOS wanting to make money from people making alts isn't a gameplay reason) is that they say that it will make it too easy for people to just switch to the "Flavor of the Month" class for competitive and dungeon content... but if it is so easy to level an alt, this is already a thing. Adding tokens won't change that.

The people that really push for class change tokens (myself included) aren't generally the people that want access to another class for content clearing or dungeon group composition reasons; those people can (and do) easily just "Level an Alt" who has just enough skill points for their build and enough guild progress for the skills they need access to. And yes, making an alt like that for that reason is easy. The people who really want them are people who have an attachment to their individual characters, but have gotten kinda bored of the skills that the character has access to and want to be able to try something fresh.

I personally have been playing ESO since Beta. I have done so primarily on a single character (I have a couple very low lvl alts I made early on to see which class "felt best" before I decided on one and who I now just use for crafting events to get lots of reward boxes) that I have taken through everything. When I play ESO, that character is me. I have helped out towns suffering from all sorts of problems, been a mercenary for all three sides of a continent wide war and made friends with important figures on all three sides, and thwarted the plans of Daedric princes (among other things). When I play the game, these things I have done are reflected. The world isn't AS responsive as it could be... but it IS responsive. Playing as a templar for 8 years though... Well... the combat and skill animations get kinda stale. Being able to try something new would be a godsend.

The Psijic and Vampire skill lines added through previous chapters were amazing because they allowed me and people like me to gain access to some new skills to play with on our existing characters. This new Combat Update 33 will likewise be amazing because it will allow new combinations of skills that haven't been (viably) possible for the last 8 years and will allow for some fresh new setups. Adding a 1h+Spell weapon set (I have quite the rant about why this should exist and why ZOS themselves thinks it should exist and why it is mind-boggling that it doesn't, but this isn't the place for it) for High Isle would have been amazing but we were all kinda let down with that (High Isle adds NO new combat options... two chapters in a row... this has been painful). Having class change tokens would let all of us that haven't and won't make serious alts because we get our fun through interacting with the game on a single character would allow us to have some MUCH needed freshness.

I mean really... this is a bit far for a lot of people, but my personal dream scenario would be for classes to exist only as a character creation template for your starting skill lines and then have quest lines available that allow people to unlock all the other skill lines. Once you have more than three skill lines unlocked, you could mix and match any of your unlocked lines by going to an NPC in your capital city and create truly unique builds and loadouts. People may argue that being able to do this would result in everyone playing the same thing... but historically in games that have allowed this sort of thing that hasn't happened. At worst, it would happen among the top 1% of competitive players, but those players already gravitate to META builds within the existing system anyways.

Sheezabeast

Something I suggested years ago, and I still believe would be helpful, would be if a character completes Cadwells Silver and Gold, they should be considered masters of their class, having proven they have played their class long enough to have played through all those zones and quests, and should have the option to have a class change token. It should be earned, and have a sense of mastery with it.

Unfortunately with the account-wide achievements coming, I'm not sure how my idea would translate into the new system

I think we need 20 character slots, up from 18. And as much as I don't want it to be a crown store item...a class change token might be the only way we get this. As much as I would rather it be something earned in game.

Sylvermynx

drsalvation wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

yeah, going skyshard hunting on a horse with 0 speed, 0 stam, 0 carry weight default carry bag space, and spending another year and a half upgrading horse isn't really something I'm looking forward in an alt, let alone all quests, delves, dungeons all over again...
I can't think of any other reason to have alts other than physical appearances (and classes)

It's only 6 months riding training, not a year and a half....

Lady_Galadhiel

Gosh yes please class change token.
Please I want to change my DK into a nightblade.

FlopsyPrince

Isn't this the way FF XIV works?

drsalvation

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Something tells me that ZOS was considered adding a class change token, but they ended up with account wide achievements, to leave the "gate" for power creep classes that will be for sure available in the future, in the cash shop.

I mean, with account wide achievements, the idea of "I mained X character" is kinda less relevant. Because right now it will be determined by completed quests & levelled skill lines. Skyshards & some other skill lines can be bought in the store.

ZOS was probably afraid that if they add class change token, all of the sudden you will not see almost any class variety, as pretty much everyone who wants to stay competitive, will switch to whatever is most OP class at the moment.

Basically speaking - adding a class change token right now, would probably reveal lack of class balance in ESO and force zos to actually make classes balanced. Imho It would be good, but for some reason ZOS things otherwise.

Yeah... the way they killed any sort of viability for supporting roles with Armory. Instead of allowing tanks to play a niche style to do damage as well, they just added armory so you could ditch your support role and make another build instead.

AlnilamE wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

yeah, going skyshard hunting on a horse with 0 speed, 0 stam, 0 carry weight default carry bag space, and spending another year and a half upgrading horse isn't really something I'm looking forward in an alt, let alone all quests, delves, dungeons all over again...
I can't think of any other reason to have alts other than physical appearances (and classes)

I currently have a level 37 on EU, where I have no champion points, so I do understand.

But with the change in achievements, you won't have to repeat quests if you don't want to, so you only need enough skill points to put your build together. I don't grind to level, but you can do randoms as you level and get the skill points from the dungeon quests as they unlock.

My alts are different characters with different stories, and their races (and sometimes classes) fit that background.

It's nice to have different characters with different stories, but to me it's something that bums me out when one character saves the world from molag bal, and then with another character, the actions of your previous character don't matter (it's a fair game tho, there's no reason why progress with one character should alter the world on a different character). But that's why I play skyrim with a mod that allows you to change characters without starting a new game, this way I can have each character progress something that also affects other characters.
This game doesn't support that, so I just do all available quests with my main (never done thief's guild with my main tho, I do have an alt who did it). So that's just a matter of preference.

Dismissing that whole story,
my main issue is, you need to individually level up a horse, and you can only level up ONE aspect of it once per day for 250 gold. It takes 60 points to level up stamina, speed, and carry weight, so it would take you half a year to fully upgrade a horse (unless you buy riding lessons for real money).
And to buy extra bag space for individual character inventory, and to hunt for skyshards for skill points once again (or repeat quests for skill points).
It feels rather pointless having to do EVERYTHING all over again just to play as a character of a different class. I want to try dragonknight someday, but after playing the game with my main character ever since it released on consoles, I don't feel like going through everything all over again.
I do appreciate that account achievements are now a thing, so I can at least pretend that if I ever do a dragonknight character, it's going to be the same as my main templar, but honestly I'd rather just get class change tokens.

Correction notice: I previously stated it would take a year and a half to fully upgrade horse. Brain fart moment, I meant half a year, not year and a half.

nihoumab14_ESO

I think a way Zenimax could implement this is allowing you to "unlock" other class skill lines. You can only activate one class at a time though, and have to go back to a shrine to swap the class skill lines out

AlnilamE

drsalvation wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Something tells me that ZOS was considered adding a class change token, but they ended up with account wide achievements, to leave the "gate" for power creep classes that will be for sure available in the future, in the cash shop.

I mean, with account wide achievements, the idea of "I mained X character" is kinda less relevant. Because right now it will be determined by completed quests & levelled skill lines. Skyshards & some other skill lines can be bought in the store.

ZOS was probably afraid that if they add class change token, all of the sudden you will not see almost any class variety, as pretty much everyone who wants to stay competitive, will switch to whatever is most OP class at the moment.

Basically speaking - adding a class change token right now, would probably reveal lack of class balance in ESO and force zos to actually make classes balanced. Imho It would be good, but for some reason ZOS things otherwise.

Yeah... the way they killed any sort of viability for supporting roles with Armory. Instead of allowing tanks to play a niche style to do damage as well, they just added armory so you could ditch your support role and make another build instead.

AlnilamE wrote: »

drsalvation wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

yeah, going skyshard hunting on a horse with 0 speed, 0 stam, 0 carry weight default carry bag space, and spending another year and a half upgrading horse isn't really something I'm looking forward in an alt, let alone all quests, delves, dungeons all over again...
I can't think of any other reason to have alts other than physical appearances (and classes)

I currently have a level 37 on EU, where I have no champion points, so I do understand.

But with the change in achievements, you won't have to repeat quests if you don't want to, so you only need enough skill points to put your build together. I don't grind to level, but you can do randoms as you level and get the skill points from the dungeon quests as they unlock.

My alts are different characters with different stories, and their races (and sometimes classes) fit that background.

It's nice to have different characters with different stories, but to me it's something that bums me out when one character saves the world from molag bal, and then with another character, the actions of your previous character don't matter (it's a fair game tho, there's no reason why progress with one character should alter the world on a different character). But that's why I play skyrim with a mod that allows you to change characters without starting a new game, this way I can have each character progress something that also affects other characters.
This game doesn't support that, so I just do all available quests with my main (never done thief's guild with my main tho, I do have an alt who did it). So that's just a matter of preference.

Dismissing that whole story,

Well, the way the account-wide achievements are set up on PTS right now, unless they fix the bugs (if they are bugs), your new characters are going to experience a world that was already changed by your main. We'll find out when this mess goes live.

Amottica

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Isn't this the way FF XIV works?

Not really. They have a job system that is a very different design than what most MMORPGs have. It would require a heavy overhaul of the game to make it as FF14 does it.

Supreme_Atromancer

A bunch of "influencers" used their platforms to harangue the devs about Account Wide Achievements until they got what they wanted.

A core of us regular schmoes had tried to explain repeatedly all the reasons why this was not the answer to what we wanted (meekly, for risk of being accused of "causing trouble"/contradicting those platformed), but few of these self-proclaimed representatives of the community are doing anything but representing what they want, for themselves.

The reasons we gave were dismissed and therefore, unsurprisingly, not understood. The ever nebulous "Backend Stuff" was given as an off-hand reason for no class-change, which is at least understandable, but it was offered in a hand-wavy manner between stuff like "well some aspect of your character needs to be permanent." Why? Or why, if immersion is suddenly so important where it never has been a consideration before, it needs to be applied to logically the *most* mutable aspect of a character (because nothing says "immersive" like ye olde race change scroll). These questions were not answered.

I have a character I made back in 2014 to play with friends I made that happened to be EP players (yes, ew, I know. But these were different times). For those of you who don't know, back in those days, you could not play with friends of opposing factions, so I couldn't play with them on my DC sorc main, who I was very proficient with. I decided to make a new EP character so that I could run with them, and went with sorc because I felt like I knew what I was doing with it, and would be able to keep up with them. Of course this whole situation has long-since changed and praise be to Akatosh, we can now play with any person of any faction with any character you damned-well want to. Of course now, because I have a character that's essentially a carbon-copy of my main (mechanically), I have no reason to play it. I actually know exactly the class and build it should be that would make it perfect, and give me reason to play it again. But its more than that. 7 years of existing. Older than some real-life humans. The character has story. It has play time. It has real history and meaning. It has achievements I actually deliberately went out and earned on that specific character and for me, are part of her identity and story, not just a meaningless checklist. 6mo of mount training (if you are able to log in every single day, that is) and all the other grind you have to do is a huge, off-putting barrier for many and I agree, but beyond that, you just can't get that 7 years back, and that means something. Yes, I can just "head over to the crown store and buy mount upgrades and skyshards and the soon-to-be-implemented psijic skill line lol" but I ALREADY DID those, with real hours of my life I invested into this character.

So I understand if its technically difficult to implement, if I know that at least one day they may implement, and I can hold hope for my that character I already invested a lot into. But the philosophical stuff like "permanency" seems like a hard close on any hope, and sux because it rings false, given the context of the character-building philosophy ESO has always held (and even gone further with over time). Its not satisfying, because it doesn't make any sense, and the solutions fall short and miss the point.

Sealish

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Isn't this the way FF XIV works?

Not really. They have a job system that is a very different design than what most MMORPGs have. It would require a heavy overhaul of the game to make it as FF14 does it.

I disagree. Doing it FFXIV style, while not ideal in my opinion, would be a decent way to do it.

All it would entail is for you to do a quest to unlock the class and then have a drop-down menu on the top of your skill section to pick your active class.

1. Picking a class would swap the three class skill trees, refund the skill points assigned to your class skills, and clear your hotbars.
2. You could then re-assign these skill points into your new class skills.
3. You would not be able to spend skill points into any other skill trees unless your points allocated to Class Skills + Unused points were equal to or greater then the highest amount applied to any one class. This would ensure that you could swap between classes without issue.
4. Swapping back to a previous class would re-assign the skill points back to your class skills and set your hotbar back to what it was last time you used the class.

This would actually be a really easy and user friendly way to implement a class change system. Way too streamlined for ESO.

Amottica

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

A bunch of "influencers" used their platforms to harangue the devs about Account Wide Achievements until they got what they wanted.

A core of us regular schmoes had tried to explain repeatedly all the reasons why this was not the answer to what we wanted .

A core of us regular schmoes explained all the reasons why we wanted account-wide achievements and that it was good for the game.

Please do not make this change presented on the PTS out to be something that some "influencers" wanted and ignore that players in the forums asked for it as well. Heck, just in the few weeks before this PTS was announced there were threads asking for it. I chimed in as well because it makes sense.

Amottica

Sealish wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Isn't this the way FF XIV works?

Not really. They have a job system that is a very different design than what most MMORPGs have. It would require a heavy overhaul of the game to make it as FF14 does it.

I disagree. Doing it FFXIV style, while not ideal in my opinion, would be a decent way to do it.

All it would entail is for you to do a quest to unlock the class and then have a drop-down menu on the top of your skill section to pick your active class.

1. Picking a class would swap the three class skill trees, refund the skill points assigned to your class skills, and clear your hotbars.
2. You could then re-assign these skill points into your new class skills.
3. You would not be able to spend skill points into any other skill trees unless your points allocated to Class Skills + Unused points were equal to or greater then the highest amount applied to any one class. This would ensure that you could swap between classes without issue.
4. Swapping back to a previous class would re-assign the skill points back to your class skills and set your hotbar back to what it was last time you used the class.

This would actually be a really easy and user friendly way to implement a class change system. Way too streamlined for ESO.

It is more than just a simple quest. For those of us that have actually played FF14 we know that it is a chain of quests that along the way you level up that "job" while at the same time learning the skills.

More important is the reality that it is very unlikely that Zenimax will trash their design that is part of the foundation of the game and turn ESO into an FF14 clone. There is no compelling reason for them to abandon the format they chose.

Supreme_Atromancer

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

A bunch of "influencers" used their platforms to harangue the devs about Account Wide Achievements until they got what they wanted.

A core of us regular schmoes had tried to explain repeatedly all the reasons why this was not the answer to what we wanted .

A core of us regular schmoes explained all the reasons why we wanted account-wide achievements and that it was good for the game.

Please do not make this change presented on the PTS out to be something that some "influencers" wanted and ignore that players in the forums asked for it as well. Heck, just in the few weeks before this PTS was announced there were threads asking for it. I chimed in as well because it makes sense.

Fair point. I was calling out the sheer weight of volume that these so-called influencers appear to have and resenting the fact that they don't represent everyone, though they often sell themselves as doing so. But that's ignorant of the fact that some of you did want this, and it is a good outcome for you. What I do think sux is that its been packaged as *the* solution to the significant desire in the community for class change options, and used to tell us that what we want is not valid any more. Given the number of threads and the persistence of the community in wanting class change, it does seem likely this change was their solution. To watch this issue develop, to explain our point of view very clearly and apparently, but have it dismissed or ignored while the developers respond to influencers with "yes, we know everybody wants Account Wide Achievements" is a little disheartening.

Amottica

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

A bunch of "influencers" used their platforms to harangue the devs about Account Wide Achievements until they got what they wanted.

A core of us regular schmoes had tried to explain repeatedly all the reasons why this was not the answer to what we wanted .

A core of us regular schmoes explained all the reasons why we wanted account-wide achievements and that it was good for the game.

Please do not make this change presented on the PTS out to be something that some "influencers" wanted and ignore that players in the forums asked for it as well. Heck, just in the few weeks before this PTS was announced there were threads asking for it. I chimed in as well because it makes sense.

Fair point. I was calling out the sheer weight of volume that these so-called influencers appear to have and resenting the fact that they don't represent everyone, though they often sell themselves as doing so. But that's ignorant of the fact that some of you did want this, and it is a good outcome for you. What I do think sux is that its been packaged as *the* solution to the significant desire in the community for class change options, and used to tell us that what we want is not valid any more. Given the number of threads and the persistence of the community in wanting class change, it does seem likely this change was their solution. To watch this issue develop, to explain our point of view very clearly and apparently, but have it dismissed or ignored while the developers respond to influencers with "yes, we know everybody wants Account Wide Achievements" is a little disheartening.

Two points I would make here.

1. The forum does not represent anyone but ourselves either. We are a very small portion of the player base, similar to the "influencers". We are also very outspoken compared to the majority of the player base. This again is similar to the "influencers'.

2. We can assume a lot about why Zenimax has made this change. It could be the numerous threads asking for account-wide achievements or the threads asking for class change. At the end of the day we are just guessing and nothing more.

But the thing is, account-wide achievements were much more likely all along for the sake of account-wide achievements since it is common for serious MMORPG players to roll and play alts. Few only roll one character. So this change was likely inevitable having nothing to do with class change.

I will also repeat what I already said, there is a business interest at play. No business that succeeds ignores its own interest. They likely make money off players rolling alts due to mount training, skill lines and sky shards, a mount, and costume just for that new character. It is not just about adding something to the crown store that some players will buy. It is also about the risk it would reduce existing revenue from that larger pool of players. In other words, they are not ignoring you but placing their own interest first which is something every corporation does.

HertoginJanneke

O_LYKOS wrote: »

My only condition would be that anyone who uses it signs a waiver saying they'll never post "ZOS is nerfing class X to sell class changes" on the forums.

As said, same applies to race changes.

In my opinion, most arguments against are base on "I dont want it for myself, so I dont want others to have it too".

Treeshka

You might say account wide achievements allow players to create a new character and just level them up, and continue from where they left. Well it is true but not fully.

New characters do not have furnishing knowledge, crafting knowledge and a lot of other stuff, they do not have it. But most importantly another character, can not be my main character and i can not use the same name as well. For this big reason whatever they bring about achievements some people, including me, will never create a new character. So yes class change should be a thing.