Gives us a way to class change

Supreme_Atromancer

Amottica wrote: »

Two points I would make here.

1. The forum does not represent anyone but ourselves either. We are a very small portion of the player base, similar to the "influencers". We are also very outspoken compared to the majority of the player base. This again is similar to the "influencers'.

Yes, its good for everyone to express their views, but not for some people to have more weight based on the fact that they are considered influencers or representatives, because that isn't great if not everyone is represented by those voices.

2. We can assume a lot about why Zenimax has made this change. It could be the numerous threads asking for account-wide achievements or the threads asking for class change. At the end of the day we are just guessing and nothing more.

They can't please everyone, that's true. ZOS is going to listen and try to gauge what their players want, and if it keeps people playing, draws more people in, is worth the development time at the expense of other things, and feels like the right time, then the "business interest" is served. But this is all depends on correctly assessing each of those things. ZOS has actively acknowledged that they've made wrong choices in the past. I think they will continue to. They're human and I can't imagine its easy. But, to what degree is this because they've misjudged what the community wants? To what degree does the whole community reach zos? Things need to be right for business but history shows that people still make bad decisions, that people misjudge, endeavours fail, games decline. While reasons for this are bound to be complex, I don't think anyone could argue that sometimes a disjunct exists between the developers and their players. I don't think its wrong to point out that this might be an element.

But the thing is, account-wide achievements were much more likely all along for the sake of account-wide achievements since it is common for serious MMORPG players to roll and play alts. Few only roll one character. So this change was likely inevitable having nothing to do with class change.

I'm not aware of any data that says that few serious MMORPG players only roll one character. And even if it were the case, you'd still need to ask to what degree ESO (which is *notoriously* very particular in that it attracts a very different style of player with very different motivations and values) can be represented by MMORPG players at large. I can definitely imagine something like possession of alts skewing drastically in this game vs. other MMOs.

Do you have evidence that this had nothing to do with class change? I mean it could very well be, but other than having it spammed by influencers on stream, I haven't seen pressure for account wide achievements except in the context of debates about class change, and more recently as the shoot-down for anyone who tries to communicate that we still want zos to recognise that class change is still a thing that many of us still really want.

Onyx_Werewolf_Gnome

I agree, I want this sooo badly

Sealish

Amottica wrote: »

Sealish wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Isn't this the way FF XIV works?

Not really. They have a job system that is a very different design than what most MMORPGs have. It would require a heavy overhaul of the game to make it as FF14 does it.

I disagree. Doing it FFXIV style, while not ideal in my opinion, would be a decent way to do it.

All it would entail is for you to do a quest to unlock the class and then have a drop-down menu on the top of your skill section to pick your active class.

1. Picking a class would swap the three class skill trees, refund the skill points assigned to your class skills, and clear your hotbars.
2. You could then re-assign these skill points into your new class skills.
3. You would not be able to spend skill points into any other skill trees unless your points allocated to Class Skills + Unused points were equal to or greater then the highest amount applied to any one class. This would ensure that you could swap between classes without issue.
4. Swapping back to a previous class would re-assign the skill points back to your class skills and set your hotbar back to what it was last time you used the class.

This would actually be a really easy and user friendly way to implement a class change system. Way too streamlined for ESO.

It is more than just a simple quest. For those of us that have actually played FF14 we know that it is a chain of quests that along the way you level up that "job" while at the same time learning the skills.

More important is the reality that it is very unlikely that Zenimax will trash their design that is part of the foundation of the game and turn ESO into an FF14 clone. There is no compelling reason for them to abandon the format they chose.

Lots of MMOs have job specific quests or quest chains that unlock abilities and equipment, that isn't unique to FFXIV. What IS largely unique (there may be other games that do it but I do not know of them) is the ability to do a single quest that unlocks a class for use, and then one unlocked a player can freely swap classes any time they are not in combat or instanced content.

Creating a similar system to this would not turn ESO into an FFXIV clone. It would just be taking inspiration from and implementing a single similar system. This happens all the time with games. Just look at the outfit system, group finder, DPS/Healer/Tank Trinity, Player Housing, and Item Sets systems. All of those are lifted from other MMOs. Using them doesn't make ESO a clone of them.

But you are right, I do not thing that ZOS would do it this way. Doing it this way would be WAY too convenient for the player and allow them too much freedom to switch things up freely. If ZOS ever implemented a class change system it would be with an expensive single use token that would probably reset all progress on your class skills upon use. Way less player friendly buy way more monetizable.

Mojmir

Needs too happen.

Xebov

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Well if i take my main:
Horde training and research is 6months.
I have all Motifs on that character, so i can use it to craft with specific motifs and do master writs.
Alot of Furnishing Plans and Recipes.
All Skyshards colected.
All Zones, Dungeons etc Quested and all Skillpoints gathered.
All Skillines leveled.

Just to get half of that on a new character would take months. I switched my main once nearly 3 years ago when i had alot of free time and it took me months just to catch up on some basics.

So having Account Based achievments just means you can have all your characters contribute to them, but it doesnt mean you can simply switch your main.

AlnilamE

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

With account-wide achievements coming in the spring update, why would you need that?

Just make an alt of the class you want and get them to 50 and pick up where you left off?

Well if i take my main:
Horde training and research is 6months.
I have all Motifs on that character, so i can use it to craft with specific motifs and do master writs.
Alot of Furnishing Plans and Recipes.
All Skyshards colected.
All Zones, Dungeons etc Quested and all Skillpoints gathered.
All Skillines leveled.

Just to get half of that on a new character would take months. I switched my main once nearly 3 years ago when i had alot of free time and it took me months just to catch up on some basics.

So having Account Based achievments just means you can have all your characters contribute to them, but it doesnt mean you can simply switch your main.

Were you planning on deleting your old "Main" if you make an alt? Because nothing prevents you from swapping to that character when you want to craft furnishings or do Master Writs.

I only have one character that learns motifs, and one that knows all the recipes. If some other alt gets a Master Writ, it just gets swapped over.

If I want to decorate a house, I use the characters that know the furnishing plans.

Amottica

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Two points I would make here.

1. The forum does not represent anyone but ourselves either. We are a very small portion of the player base, similar to the "influencers". We are also very outspoken compared to the majority of the player base. This again is similar to the "influencers'.

Yes, its good for everyone to express their views, but not for some people to have more weight based on the fact that they are considered influencers or representatives, because that isn't great if not everyone is represented by those voices.

2. We can assume a lot about why Zenimax has made this change. It could be the numerous threads asking for account-wide achievements or the threads asking for class change. At the end of the day we are just guessing and nothing more.

They can't please everyone, that's true. ZOS is going to listen and try to gauge what their players want, and if it keeps people playing, draws more people in, is worth the development time at the expense of other things, and feels like the right time, then the "business interest" is served. But this is all depends on correctly assessing each of those things. ZOS has actively acknowledged that they've made wrong choices in the past. I think they will continue to. They're human and I can't imagine its easy. But, to what degree is this because they've misjudged what the community wants? To what degree does the whole community reach zos? Things need to be right for business but history shows that people still make bad decisions, that people misjudge, endeavours fail, games decline. While reasons for this are bound to be complex, I don't think anyone could argue that sometimes a disjunct exists between the developers and their players. I don't think its wrong to point out that this might be an element.

But the thing is, account-wide achievements were much more likely all along for the sake of account-wide achievements since it is common for serious MMORPG players to roll and play alts. Few only roll one character. So this change was likely inevitable having nothing to do with class change.

I'm not aware of any data that says that few serious MMORPG players only roll one character. And even if it were the case, you'd still need to ask to what degree ESO (which is *notoriously* very particular in that it attracts a very different style of player with very different motivations and values) can be represented by MMORPG players at large. I can definitely imagine something like possession of alts skewing drastically in this game vs. other MMOs.

Do you have evidence that this had nothing to do with class change? I mean it could very well be, but other than having it spammed by influencers on stream, I haven't seen pressure for account wide achievements except in the context of debates about class change, and more recently as the shoot-down for anyone who tries to communicate that we still want zos to recognise that class change is still a thing that many of us still really want.

• Originally ESO had veteran ranks with the last veteran rank cap being VR16 which equates to CP160 (specifically). Players complained about this because it it had to be earned per character and took as long, eventually longer, to level up the vet ranks than it did to level from 1 to 50. The complaint was not the original leveling, but how unfriendly leveling alts was.
• Zenimax has also made additional character slots available via the crown store and I understand they added them to a chapter purchase that included a new class.
• Zenimax has added two classes to the game since its launch. Both of which require a purchase as they are not part of the base game.
• Zenimax has added the means to purchase sky shards and skill lines with the firm requirement that they were obtained or unlocked on another character.

Zenimax has added these as they have seen player rolling alts is a huge revenue source for them or they would have ceased adding these things long ago. This supports my comments unless they kept repeating the same mistake time and time again which is unlikely.

It also shows that Zenimax is very willing to add such features to the crown store if they feel it would be a good source of revenue and would be good for the game. This does bring up a point where it would be bad for the game when a new class is added but I digress.

Also, many MMORPGs are built to encourage alts. SWTOR's legacy system. Guild Wars Army of Me. Allied races in WoW. The list continues. We end with threads this week complaining they will lose achievement lists for their alts with this new account-wide achievement list in ESO.

As I said, there seems to be money in alts.

Hurbster

Goodness me yes, class change token, please. I want my main to be my main again.