People Seem to Not Understand What update 33 IS.

Snow_White

My concern when reading the changes is that it’ll kill stamina, that 12 classes will be distilled down into 6 hybrids, and that everyone will eventually be a high elf. I could be wrong… but I could also be right.

Having more access to skills is great, but we’re still going to slot the 10 most effective, and once we figure out what those are we won’t use anything else.

francesinhalover

Snow_White wrote: »

My concern when reading the changes is that it’ll kill stamina, that 12 classes will be distilled down into 6 hybrids, and that everyone will eventually be a high elf. I could be wrong… but I could also be right.

Having more access to skills is great, but we’re still going to slot the 10 most effective, and once we figure out what those are we won’t use anything else.

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

the1andonlyskwex

From the PTS patch notes:

Player abilities that scale with your offensive stats, such as Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, will now dynamically scale with the highest of your offensive stats.
As a heads up, the following abilities have not received adjustments to their scaling:
Backlash and its morph’s final damage
Conjured Ward and morphs
Annulment and morphs

Snow_White

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

francesinhalover

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

Snow_White

francesinhalover wrote: »

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

38.8k mag, max magica food. 19 carves and 16 stampedes in under 3 minutes, and his stam drain was less less than his stam recovery

Can’t see how much stam, but it was on a Dark Elf.

Everest_Lionheart

francesinhalover wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

You can spam it 3x outright to hit max stacks away, after that as long as you cast before cooldown the stacks will continue to sit at 3. Alternatively you could cast once per rotation for the first three rotations and as long as the skill timer doesn’t tick to zero the 3 stacks will build up over the first 3 rotations.

Stx

francesinhalover wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

What's the difference any more? Everyone can use the same skills and weapons, so does it really matter if he is built for magicka or stamina? Everyone is a hybrid now.

francesinhalover

Stx wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

What's the difference any more? Everyone can use the same skills and weapons, so does it really matter if he is built for magicka or stamina? Everyone is a hybrid now.

You mean two hander since z made carve overpowered and refuses to nerf it.
The thing is magicka is for long range, but that doesnt really apply to pvp

burglar

Stx wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

What's the difference any more? Everyone can use the same skills and weapons, so does it really matter if he is built for magicka or stamina? Everyone is a hybrid now.

Yeah, resources...?

francesinhalover

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

What's the difference any more? Everyone can use the same skills and weapons, so does it really matter if he is built for magicka or stamina? Everyone is a hybrid now.

Yeah, resources...?

And armor // range

the1andonlyskwex

francesinhalover wrote: »

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Doubt that will happen, it would make medium light armor pointless, and status like decease poison etc also kinda pointless, plus i doubt people would like the change, but you never know

Just saw a PTS parse, MagDK, 120k running DW and 2H with a .068 weave. Bahsei/kilt/AY/Maelstrom 2H.

You sure its mag? Because carve requires 3 stacks+ stampede a full mag player wont have resources to spam that

What's the difference any more? Everyone can use the same skills and weapons, so does it really matter if he is built for magicka or stamina? Everyone is a hybrid now.

Yeah, resources...?

And armor // range

Not really though. Armor has largely been hybridized. Bow is ranged. Lots of non-weapon stam skills are ranged. MagDK skills are basically all melee, and a fair number of magNB skills are also melee.

ADarklore

Interesting when I read that these changes are "removing options"... when in fact, they are GIVING options. It always sucks when you have a class skill and its buff ONLY applies Major Savagery when you're a Magicka character. Now, I have a CHOICE to use that skill because now it'll offer Major Prophecy as well. That's not taking away choices, it's adding more!

As the OP said, people just don't get it. As it stands now, ESO skills are so wonky with buffs and debuffs... so it's nice to see them bringing them together. As the devs also said, they ARE working to eventually merge them together... so there will be no Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, but a singular buff. This is a VERY good thing IMO!!

Stx

ADarklore wrote: »

Interesting when I read that these changes are "removing options"... when in fact, they are GIVING options. It always sucks when you have a class skill and its buff ONLY applies Major Savagery when you're a Magicka character. Now, I have a CHOICE to use that skill because now it'll offer Major Prophecy as well. That's not taking away choices, it's adding more!

As the OP said, people just don't get it. As it stands now, ESO skills are so wonky with buffs and debuffs... so it's nice to see them bringing them together. As the devs also said, they ARE working to eventually merge them together... so there will be no Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, but a singular buff. This is a VERY good thing IMO!!

You're right its a great thing. After that they can combine all the buffs into one. They can merge stamina and magicka into one resource pool. They can merge all stats into one stat. Then we can just remove all the buffs because they are available everywhere and do the same thing, so really what's the point in having them right? Since we're going down this path let's just take a shortcut to the end!

francesinhalover

Stx wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interesting when I read that these changes are "removing options"... when in fact, they are GIVING options. It always sucks when you have a class skill and its buff ONLY applies Major Savagery when you're a Magicka character. Now, I have a CHOICE to use that skill because now it'll offer Major Prophecy as well. That's not taking away choices, it's adding more!

As the OP said, people just don't get it. As it stands now, ESO skills are so wonky with buffs and debuffs... so it's nice to see them bringing them together. As the devs also said, they ARE working to eventually merge them together... so there will be no Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, but a singular buff. This is a VERY good thing IMO!!

You're right its a great thing. After that they can combine all the buffs into one. They can merge stamina and magicka into one resource pool. They can merge all stats into one stat. Then we can just remove all the buffs because they are available everywhere and do the same thing, so really what's the point in having them right? Since we're going down this path let's just take a shortcut to the end!

Chill man, everything will be fine

Stx

francesinhalover wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interesting when I read that these changes are "removing options"... when in fact, they are GIVING options. It always sucks when you have a class skill and its buff ONLY applies Major Savagery when you're a Magicka character. Now, I have a CHOICE to use that skill because now it'll offer Major Prophecy as well. That's not taking away choices, it's adding more!

As the OP said, people just don't get it. As it stands now, ESO skills are so wonky with buffs and debuffs... so it's nice to see them bringing them together. As the devs also said, they ARE working to eventually merge them together... so there will be no Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, but a singular buff. This is a VERY good thing IMO!!

You're right its a great thing. After that they can combine all the buffs into one. They can merge stamina and magicka into one resource pool. They can merge all stats into one stat. Then we can just remove all the buffs because they are available everywhere and do the same thing, so really what's the point in having them right? Since we're going down this path let's just take a shortcut to the end!

Chill man, everything will be fine

🤷

the1andonlyskwex

Stx wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Interesting when I read that these changes are "removing options"... when in fact, they are GIVING options. It always sucks when you have a class skill and its buff ONLY applies Major Savagery when you're a Magicka character. Now, I have a CHOICE to use that skill because now it'll offer Major Prophecy as well. That's not taking away choices, it's adding more!

As the OP said, people just don't get it. As it stands now, ESO skills are so wonky with buffs and debuffs... so it's nice to see them bringing them together. As the devs also said, they ARE working to eventually merge them together... so there will be no Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, but a singular buff. This is a VERY good thing IMO!!

You're right its a great thing. After that they can combine all the buffs into one. They can merge stamina and magicka into one resource pool. They can merge all stats into one stat. Then we can just remove all the buffs because they are available everywhere and do the same thing, so really what's the point in having them right? Since we're going down this path let's just take a shortcut to the end!

Pretty much. Having guardrails in place to prevent skills from being combined (either through classes or resource/scaling differences) helps prevent overpowered combinations. As people gain access to a wider range of skills, new combos will be discovered/enabled, and ZOS will have to respond with either nerfs or more homogenization. Ultimately, the result will either be a pile of completely useless skills and only a few viable builds, or homogenization to the point where most skills are redundant and removing half of them from the game won't have any meaningful impact.

Who's ready for slow-paced, low-skill, fantasy-themed, Call of Duty?

katorga

It is pretty simple. ZOS is removing places where newer or casual players can make the _wrong_ choice and totally screw up their character. It is not a balance thing. It is a playability thing.

At some point we have all seen the player who rolls into a pug dungeon with a with skills all over the map, all sorts of mismatched sets, weapons and stats. Skills scaling from high stat is one way to make that not matter.

etchedpixels

katorga wrote: »

It is pretty simple. ZOS is removing places where newer or casual players can make the _wrong_ choice and totally screw up their character. It is not a balance thing. It is a playability thing.

It won't make any difference.

If you have the wrong resource skills you'll simply spend all day heavy attacking and have no resources. They might do more damage but you won't be able to use them a lot. In fact it may push confused people further towards magicka and stamina mixed builds which the hybridisation hasn't fixed and have been broken since the (much needed) changes to stop people building dps tanks in PvP.

It does allow more flexibility in skill choices for skills you don't use so much but it doesn't fix any of the real problems

- Misleading and wrong tooltips
- Out of date and wrong guidance from the skill wizard
- Skills that simply aren't useful but look good from the description
- Weird dependencies on passives buried in the bottom of footnotes of passive effects of half related skills (Magelight for example)
- Lack of stamina/magicka stat hybridisation options
- Skill trees where the later skills are worse than the ones you get early, which is very different to most games
- A CP model where you have to assign points to do things instead of points shifting you from a generic and reasonable base
- A CP model so confusing most people just paste values from streamers or use addons to auto-track streamer of choice

The problems are lot more fundamental if you want to move the model from 'it's so confusing that you paste values from an expert' to 'feels like I am in control'

karekiz

.

SkaraMinoc

Looking forward to the Mag Sorc wombo combo w/ 2 executes.

Carbohydrate

francesinhalover wrote: »

- I see lots of comments overreacting and it really gives me the vibe people didn't bother reading.

- Amost all Skills work with Highest resource. This means Stam/mag classes can use SOME mag/stam skills, not all of them.

- This already exists in the game. Nightblades can use Consuming trap and path of darkness... but CAN'T spam them.
Your average endgame stam player can use at max 3 mag skills in a row without completely running out of mag. only 3.

- What this means for endgame players is mag classes can for example use DW skills like Deadly cloak or fighters guild lightweight trap for crit damage , but that's It THEY CAN'T spam skills because they lack resources for it.
And mag classes have been using dw since vmol , it just became more popular now.

I see people talking about healers and vigor. Is VIGOR is even going to work with mag?

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale

- Oh but hybrid builds exist! oh yeah and they do half the damage a full stam or mag build would do if they are trully hybrid.

- Crit / spell crit or major sorcery/ brutality becoming one, is to make the game more simple to understand for everyone and new players. Because ya know, mmos are being created and gaining popularity and keeping new players on eso is a good idea.

- This update by itself is almost the same has giving every class a new skill line they can use to make their builds more diverse. Not everyone enjoys and will ever touch stam/mag classes but now they have access to more skills that's it.

- Some skills will also be reworked to make them more usable. And again not EVERY skill will be able to work with highest resources.

---

And people that say...oh everything will be the same! IT ALREADY IS.
Everyone is using two handed atm on stam.

Stam sorce, Stam templar, barely have skills to use, now they do. It's a dream come true for them.
I for one am happy i will be able to use another conjured pet and not this

This is a very wrong outlook lol.

The result of these changes that is concerning is that the hardest hitting setup will be nirn/charged dual wield front bar with a flame and poison enchant, and 2H backbar using stampede and carve, regardless of what class you are playing or what your highest resource is.

SkaraMinoc

BlackArgonian wrote: »

Mark my words, in this new update skills like Caltops will shine on mages, Entropy and Mystic orb will be loved by stamina characters, and it will be beautiful, and little more true to The Elder Scrolls.

Mag Sorcs are already starting to use caltrops and dawnbreakers in PvP. Update 33 is going to be crazy.

miguelcura

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I am really looking forward to account-wide achievements. Do you know why? My main is Stamina DK. Often I get asked to either switch to Magicka or another class (like Magcro etc.) for certain raids. This usually is better for the raid, but I lose motivation because I don't care about achievements on my alts. So from now on I can be happy to switch to another class as needed, because I'll still get the achievement on my main.

What should happen is that the balance would allow him to do everything with his StamDK because it would be on the same level and desirable as a magcro.
If you have to play a certain class to make a group content, we return to the same hybridization discussion: can we play however we want? are there options? IF you can't play a magden because it doesn't bring any buffs to the party (Assuming there's already a healer because they're one of the best) the game is a flop.
That's what's wrong.

francesinhalover

Carbohydrate wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

- I see lots of comments overreacting and it really gives me the vibe people didn't bother reading.

- Amost all Skills work with Highest resource. This means Stam/mag classes can use SOME mag/stam skills, not all of them.

- This already exists in the game. Nightblades can use Consuming trap and path of darkness... but CAN'T spam them.
Your average endgame stam player can use at max 3 mag skills in a row without completely running out of mag. only 3.

- What this means for endgame players is mag classes can for example use DW skills like Deadly cloak or fighters guild lightweight trap for crit damage , but that's It THEY CAN'T spam skills because they lack resources for it.
And mag classes have been using dw since vmol , it just became more popular now.

I see people talking about healers and vigor. Is VIGOR is even going to work with mag?

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale

- Oh but hybrid builds exist! oh yeah and they do half the damage a full stam or mag build would do if they are trully hybrid.

- Crit / spell crit or major sorcery/ brutality becoming one, is to make the game more simple to understand for everyone and new players. Because ya know, mmos are being created and gaining popularity and keeping new players on eso is a good idea.

- This update by itself is almost the same has giving every class a new skill line they can use to make their builds more diverse. Not everyone enjoys and will ever touch stam/mag classes but now they have access to more skills that's it.

- Some skills will also be reworked to make them more usable. And again not EVERY skill will be able to work with highest resources.

---

And people that say...oh everything will be the same! IT ALREADY IS.
Everyone is using two handed atm on stam.

Stam sorce, Stam templar, barely have skills to use, now they do. It's a dream come true for them.
I for one am happy i will be able to use another conjured pet and not this

This is a very wrong outlook lol.

The result of these changes that is concerning is that the hardest hitting setup will be nirn/charged dual wield front bar with a flame and poison enchant, and 2H backbar using stampede and carve, regardless of what class you are playing or what your highest resource is.

This post was made before the changes were known.

Gaebriel0410

Fantastic changes from what I've read and seen on videos. Seems like this will do a lot for build diversity, love seeing that they're continueing to go it a good direction.

I also hope this will end the comedy of the worst combat trend in the entire game that has persisted for years amongst the maxdps chasers, players laying traps at the feet of an enemy they are fighting, besides it feeling clunky as hell, that's also not how a trap should ever work and it's ridiculous in every way.

francesinhalover

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Fantastic changes from what I've read and seen on videos. Seems like this will do a lot for build diversity, love seeing that they're continueing to go it a good direction.

I also hope this will end the comedy of the worst combat trend in the entire game that has persisted for years amongst the maxdps chasers, players laying traps at the feet of an enemy they are fighting, besides it feeling clunky as hell, that's also not how a trap should ever work and it's ridiculous in every way.

Barbed trap will still be meta. Its used for the crit dmg % and will probs be used by mags.
You can dodge it with tzogvin or khajit for endgwame trials.
That being said barbed also has a really strong dot.

MudcrabAttack

It’s a cool change, and it brings something that always felt as if it were missing, my characters from old elder scrolls games were always hybrid. It doesn’t bother me personally since I really haven’t liked any of other ESO metas that came along. The meta could shift to mages running their tiny stamina pool out all the time with breaking free, blocking, sprinting, bashing to interrupt things, avoiding orbs and shards so they can build up bahsei % modifiers, realizing after practicing 20 dummy parses that nobody is wearing Hircines veneer, stampede, carve, barbed trap, and other class stamina morphs the meta can’t do without. It will be pretty hard to pull off, and if that hits the highest damage, then by all means go for it

At the same time the ceiling for stamina builds is getting lifted up by the magic options

I’ll still be playing mostly stamina based archers, who probably will never run low on stamina anymore

MorganaBlue

the trend of the last few patches and the coming don't seem so much a "play as you want" thing, but more in the line of the "lower the ceiling" strategy , making higher dps more accessible to builds that previously were barely viable in vet content, if not base game. DPS increase for the masses does not make the masses better players, tho. Billy Bob hitting 90K on the dummy with his super state of the art newfangled hybrid mashup build with new skill loadouts will still wipe the group in vMoL.

Everest_Lionheart

MorganaBlue wrote: »

the trend of the last few patches and the coming don't seem so much a "play as you want" thing, but more in the line of the "lower the ceiling" strategy , making higher dps more accessible to builds that previously were barely viable in vet content, if not base game. DPS increase for the masses does not make the masses better players, tho. Billy Bob hitting 90K on the dummy with his super state of the art newfangled hybrid mashup build with new skill loadouts will still wipe the group in vMoL.

The way endgame community is these days 90K might get you into a couple pug or teaching runs for clears but it’s not enough anymore for teams attempting the hard modes. Endgame groups these days are asking well over 100K and even quite a few 105K and some super elite groups of 110K+

The trouble with this is nobody is teaching mechs, rather they are skipping them. As long as your group can converge one time against twins you can just melt your way through it. Rakkhat can be burned without even playing the backyard mechs if your group is setup right.

That fresh 90k player will never have to learn mechs if they get carried by an experienced team. I will give you an example. I was on a vAS+2 team with 5 immortal redeemer DPS that all got clears with other teams. I watched 2 of them die to first jump and 3 of them die to first kite more times than I care to count in our prog that struggled to make it to execute most nights.

Some of those players had 100K+ parses. Honestly parsing is basically just a mini game. Sadly those of us that exist on console it’s the only metric we have to judge anything by. It leads to some embarrassing runs.