Update 33 Combat Preview

Ratzkifal

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.
And while you are at it, look at Mundus Stones again. Not all of those are hybrid friendly. Food and enchantments also need hybrid options.

It's clear your team is following some sort of vision here, but what that vision is, where you are trying to go with all of this, that is still a mystery and it has been causing me a lot of pain. As long as I don't know where this is headed, I am not on board with these changes. And that is coming from someone who would absolutely love to play a proper spellblade character or hybrid! So maybe just tell us what you are thinking of doing in update 34 and 35 now instead of keeping us in the dark like that. The way I see it the difference between magicka and stamina has become less and less meaningful, not in a good way, but in the worst possible way - and I am not talking about "meta" or "dps" here, but skill fantasy and expression, which are the things I am assuming you are trying to improve.

Citizen of Tamriel after update 33 probably: "Look at me! I've done nothing but read books all my life and mastered the arcane arts! That means I can swing my sword just as hard as that guy over there who trained with it his whole life!"

Personally I would prefer if everyone could choose between being exclusively magicka, exclusively stamina or hybrid, instead of making everyone hybrid and needing to pretend like you are exclusively one thing...

MashmalloMan

Leogon wrote: »

If you guys wanna continue hybridization, how about turning all races into hybrids?

Not convinced I'd want that completely, but some touch ups to the less versatile races would be nice. Redguard, Wood Elf and Breton are all very medicore imo. Redguard has been eating dirt ever since the original rebalance.

A nice balance of a focus on stam/mag, but also able to boost other parts of combat like the way High Elf and Orc have it would be good.

Imperial giving all 3 pools would be fitting too. Cheers

IronWooshu

I'm excited to see the possibilities of DW MagDK and Spin to Win giving MagDK an execute.

Ragnaroek93

Leogon wrote: »

If you guys wanna continue hybridization, how about turning all races into hybrids?

Yeah, that's only one of the billion issues which will come with this. But reading all the replies in this thread I highly doubt that people care about this and they probably consider people who don't play a stam race on a mag toon as an elitist. Hope everybody enjoys these changes which are clearly made for a minority and come on expanse of EVERYBODY else who dares to play their characters optimized and doesn't want to racechange, regear, beta test and deal with at least months of balance issues (especially on the expanse of most casuals who don't have the time to do all this and relearn the game but want to do more than slaying mudcrabs).

Fabi95

Sounds like very interesting and cool changes! Will there be a dedicated thread to discuss changes to the skills? For instance, I worry that the proposed changes will likely lead to people overusing the "Vigor" skill, and nerfing the skill as an aftermath would be then punishing other playstyles (particularly non-magic builds).

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

or Piercing Javelin’s new functionality of living up to its name and piercing through block.

This sounds like a good initial change, though personally I think that this entire Templar skill needs a rework (among others). Javelin is mostly a niche skill used in PvP only, and Javelin ignoring block makes this still almost exclusively a skill worth considering for PvP only. If you can consider more feedback from the Templar feedback thread, this would be most appreciated. Thanks so much, the preview of the changes sound already promising!

WrathOfInnos

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Ratzkifal

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

jaws343

Einstein_ wrote: »

idk understand why ppl think this is gonna increase diversity.

with this change ZoS just halfs the classes....there will be no diffrent in mag/stam anymore....

instead of mag/stam temp there gonna be only Temps for example.

and we already know that there is always a best in slot set/build which means everyone will run the same skills and sets soon...

you jsut gonna build on WD/stam and use the strongest skills you can find...its always ez to get the sustain for whatever skills you use....

GJ you killed diversity

That's not how this will work in the least.

A Stam focused build will still need to primarily use skills that cost Stam. And a mag focused build will still need to primarily use skills that cost mag.

Just because a Stam build can slot a few mag skills and find them now effective, doesn't mean that a Stam build will be able to sustain the same mag based rotation as a mag build.

So there will still be distinction between mag and Stam builds, namely with resource pools and sustain, but it will open up the ability to use far more off stat abilities in a meaningful way.

Maybe I am a mag toon that wants to run vigor instead of being forced to run a restro stave. Or a Stam sorc that wants to run pets while using Stam weapon skills as a spammable and execute.

Imo, this opens a ton more diversity of how a build can be constructed at the below meta point. At the meta/bus point, there never has been and never will be true diversity, it's a mathematical game of best output and that is it, so it's pretty irrelevant in this discussion.

jaws343

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

Ratzkifal

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

No, this is definitely a hybrid thing. The hybridization thing has been going on for a long long while now. If it was only about allowing classes to make use of their entire kit, then this change would have been the only one they made. Instead they made tons of changes to hybridize armor boni, to hybridize item sets and to hybridize buffs and debuffs. If every single skill dynamically chose between spell and weapon damage for scaling from the start, then there wouldn't be the need to hybridize buffs because Major Brutality would have all your magicka skills covered anyway.
This is 100% a hybrid build thing and it makes no sense to me at all.

jaws343

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

No, this is definitely a hybrid thing. The hybridization thing has been going on for a long long while now. If it was only about allowing classes to make use of their entire kit, then this change would have been the only one they made. Instead they made tons of changes to hybridize armor boni, to hybridize item sets and to hybridize buffs and debuffs. If every single skill dynamically chose between spell and weapon damage for scaling from the start, then there wouldn't be the need to hybridize buffs because Major Brutality would have all your magicka skills covered anyway.
This is 100% a hybrid build thing and it makes no sense to me at all.

Hybridization of skills /= making hybrids viable.

Their goal this entire time has been to make skills and sets useful across mag and Stam. Always while still requiring you to focus on either mag and Stam to be effective. That focus isn't going away, but more and more skills and sets are now useful on either mag or Stam, allowing for a lot more options to make a build.

True hybrid stat builds will never work properly anymore and that is intentional. There is a reason they blew up pelinals.

VaranisArano

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

I think it's a different definition of 'hybrid."

For some players, it's being able to use magicka and stamina skills in a build.

There's some players for whom hybrid means being able to split their magicka/stamina equally and still be as effective as people who don't. There was one fellow I remember being deeply disappointed he couldn't be as effective splitting his resources three ways equally into health, magicka, and stamina.

I can't speak to their reasoning, but I used to play my Skyrim characters like that.

This change won't help those split-stat hybrid players because they still have to deal with the lack of sustain and small resource pools. I think that's intended though, since ZOS acknowledges that they are relying on the cost of these hybrid skills to balance the added scaling.

BlakMarket

Leogon wrote: »

If you guys wanna continue hybridization, how about turning all races into hybrids?

These changes mean races are more hybrid then ever now. Think about it.

Langeston

I haven't given it too much thought yet, but my first reaction was that this will probably be the final nail in the coffin for mag specs in PVP.

Ratzkifal

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

No, this is definitely a hybrid thing. The hybridization thing has been going on for a long long while now. If it was only about allowing classes to make use of their entire kit, then this change would have been the only one they made. Instead they made tons of changes to hybridize armor boni, to hybridize item sets and to hybridize buffs and debuffs. If every single skill dynamically chose between spell and weapon damage for scaling from the start, then there wouldn't be the need to hybridize buffs because Major Brutality would have all your magicka skills covered anyway.
This is 100% a hybrid build thing and it makes no sense to me at all.

Hybridization of skills /= making hybrids viable.

Their goal this entire time has been to make skills and sets useful across mag and Stam. Always while still requiring you to focus on either mag and Stam to be effective. That focus isn't going away, but more and more skills and sets are now useful on either mag or Stam, allowing for a lot more options to make a build.

True hybrid stat builds will never work properly anymore and that is intentional. There is a reason they blew up pelinals.

Remind me again how that was the case when they made medium armor boost spell damage and light armor boost weapon critical. They blew up Pelinals because they felt it wasn't hitting the mark and they think the changes they have made and are making now remove the need to use the old Pelinals.
The changes to Deadly Strikes also only make sense for hybridization because that set was good the way it was for stam, then got turned hybrid and had to be nerfed because it would have been overpowered for magicka. They could have just added a mag exclusive version if it was about letting magicka players use the set - no need to ruin it for one or the other unless you are for some reason insisting it works for both to include hybrids... And also how do you explain that weapon abilities will now have hybrid scaling? That's to allow people to use Greatswords on mag and Staves on stam builds (making things more hybrid), instead of just limitting the hybrid scaling to just class skills, since those are what magicka and stamina specs are fighting over morphs for. But no, they included weapon skills in this because they want to improve hybrid builds, yet they fail to do so every single time.
The fact that we can even debate the developer intention shows very clearly that the Devs have failed to properly communicate their vision to us.
But here is a quote from the previous combat preview for update 32:

Our focus in Update 32 is two-fold: improving proc set balance and continuing the hybridization improvements from previous updates.

Ratzkifal

BlakMarket wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

If you guys wanna continue hybridization, how about turning all races into hybrids?

These changes mean races are more hybrid then ever now. Think about it.

No, these changes do not mean anything of the sort, because all the races these changes would apply to are already hybridized, despite that making no sense at all in the lore... The races that aren't yet hybridized are the sustain races (Redguard, Breton, Bosmer) and they gain nothing from these changes, so it's still all the same as the last patches.

jaws343

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

No, this is definitely a hybrid thing. The hybridization thing has been going on for a long long while now. If it was only about allowing classes to make use of their entire kit, then this change would have been the only one they made. Instead they made tons of changes to hybridize armor boni, to hybridize item sets and to hybridize buffs and debuffs. If every single skill dynamically chose between spell and weapon damage for scaling from the start, then there wouldn't be the need to hybridize buffs because Major Brutality would have all your magicka skills covered anyway.
This is 100% a hybrid build thing and it makes no sense to me at all.

Hybridization of skills /= making hybrids viable.

Their goal this entire time has been to make skills and sets useful across mag and Stam. Always while still requiring you to focus on either mag and Stam to be effective. That focus isn't going away, but more and more skills and sets are now useful on either mag or Stam, allowing for a lot more options to make a build.

True hybrid stat builds will never work properly anymore and that is intentional. There is a reason they blew up pelinals.

Remind me again how that was the case when they made medium armor boost spell damage and light armor boost weapon critical. They blew up Pelinals because they felt it wasn't hitting the mark and they think the changes they have made and are making now remove the need to use the old Pelinals.
The changes to Deadly Strikes also only make sense for hybridization because that set was good the way it was for stam, then got turned hybrid and had to be nerfed because it would have been overpowered for magicka. They could have just added a mag exclusive version if it was about letting magicka players use the set - no need to ruin it for one or the other unless you are for some reason insisting it works for both to include hybrids... And also how do you explain that weapon abilities will now have hybrid scaling? That's to allow people to use Greatswords on mag and Staves on stam builds (making things more hybrid), instead of just limitting the hybrid scaling to just class skills, since those are what magicka and stamina specs are fighting over morphs for. But no, they included weapon skills in this because they want to improve hybrid builds, yet they fail to do so every single time.
The fact that we can even debate the developer intention shows very clearly that the Devs have failed to properly communicate their vision to us.
But here is a quote from the previous combat preview for update 32:

Our focus in Update 32 is two-fold: improving proc set balance and continuing the hybridization improvements from previous updates.

They include weapon skills because, again, they are trying to make all skills/gear viable on either mag or Stam. That is what hybridization has always meant in the context that Zos has used it in every instance. It has never meant making split stat hybrid builds viable.

Solariken

I hope this means Repentance and Siphoning Attacks will restore both resources

Ratzkifal

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

No, this is definitely a hybrid thing. The hybridization thing has been going on for a long long while now. If it was only about allowing classes to make use of their entire kit, then this change would have been the only one they made. Instead they made tons of changes to hybridize armor boni, to hybridize item sets and to hybridize buffs and debuffs. If every single skill dynamically chose between spell and weapon damage for scaling from the start, then there wouldn't be the need to hybridize buffs because Major Brutality would have all your magicka skills covered anyway.
This is 100% a hybrid build thing and it makes no sense to me at all.

Hybridization of skills /= making hybrids viable.

Their goal this entire time has been to make skills and sets useful across mag and Stam. Always while still requiring you to focus on either mag and Stam to be effective. That focus isn't going away, but more and more skills and sets are now useful on either mag or Stam, allowing for a lot more options to make a build.

True hybrid stat builds will never work properly anymore and that is intentional. There is a reason they blew up pelinals.

Remind me again how that was the case when they made medium armor boost spell damage and light armor boost weapon critical. They blew up Pelinals because they felt it wasn't hitting the mark and they think the changes they have made and are making now remove the need to use the old Pelinals.
The changes to Deadly Strikes also only make sense for hybridization because that set was good the way it was for stam, then got turned hybrid and had to be nerfed because it would have been overpowered for magicka. They could have just added a mag exclusive version if it was about letting magicka players use the set - no need to ruin it for one or the other unless you are for some reason insisting it works for both to include hybrids... And also how do you explain that weapon abilities will now have hybrid scaling? That's to allow people to use Greatswords on mag and Staves on stam builds (making things more hybrid), instead of just limitting the hybrid scaling to just class skills, since those are what magicka and stamina specs are fighting over morphs for. But no, they included weapon skills in this because they want to improve hybrid builds, yet they fail to do so every single time.
The fact that we can even debate the developer intention shows very clearly that the Devs have failed to properly communicate their vision to us.
But here is a quote from the previous combat preview for update 32:

Our focus in Update 32 is two-fold: improving proc set balance and continuing the hybridization improvements from previous updates.

They include weapon skills because, again, they are trying to make all skills/gear viable on either mag or Stam. That is what hybridization has always meant in the context that Zos has used it in every instance. It has never meant making split stat hybrid builds viable.

What point does that serve? Who is ZOS trying to cater to? Why do you need to make Hunding's and Julianos hybrid? We already had plenty of mirror pair sets in the game, especially when it comes to raw stats, so all of these changes are to allow for hybrid builds to use traditional mono-stat sets instead of relying on things like Pelinals, which was essentially a missing 5th piece bonus just for the sake of making you hybrid.
I think, that it has never meant making split stat builds viable is the exact issue, because the people that want to play hybrid want to play split stat builds. They want that mainly so they can use both their martial and magic skills together in roughly equal measure. They did that in Skyrim and there you had to split your resources too, so why not here? It also makes a lot more sense that way because if you want to be good at two things, logically you should invest into two things. They don't want to play pure mag with a twohander or pure stam with a staff - they want to be true hybrids and that is not happening, because ZOS has been failing to give them that time and time again while achieving largely nothing with their other changes.
It certainly isn't succeeding in opening up more choices - a choice between a bad build and a good build is not choice at all. I am still not playing magicka in medium armor, because sustain becomes an issue to the point where it just isn't fun. If that's intentional, then what was the intention there?
It does succeed in homogenizing everything though because now every mag build can use and abuse Momentum and Crit Rush and Vigor, same as stam.

James-Wayne

Yep good change. Thanks!

Leogon wrote: »

If you guys wanna continue hybridization, how about turning all races into hybrids?

Dont worry its coming, no doubt They are working on one section at a time to slow down the build changes each patch.

Same with the scaling of damage using Mag/Stam/Health, I'm sure additional changes are in the pipeline.

Tannus15

I'm really excited for this change and i'll be interested to see which skills are affected and which aren't.

A lot of people are bringing up Vigor and other heals, which for all we know right now might still only scale off their primary stat.
Keep in mind that proc sets scale damage off weapon damage and healing off resource pools, this may be coming to our abilities in a future update.
Likewise people are lamenting the fact that max resouce pool means we'll still be stacking 64 in an attribute which might also be addressed in a later update. I think the initial change of most skills to scale off highest stats to be a big enough change for a first step.

Don't forget that most people decried the set changes last update and most end game trials people I know are still running the same sets from pre update 32. These horizontal changes tend to open up possibilities, not narrow choices as some people fear.

Personally I can't wait to get my hands on this when it hits PTS and start playing around with builds.

jaws343

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable. Similar to what we’ve worked on with passives and item sets, we want to ensure you feel empowered to pick an ability or weapon based on the gameplay mechanics and expression they offer you first and foremost, with fewer restrictions. This means any ability that used to scale exclusively with Spell Damage and Max Magicka will now dynamically scale with Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, and vice versa. With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

@ZOS_Gilliam while this is awesome and I truly appreciate the hybrid love, these types of builds are still significantly disadvantaged due to magicka/stamina damage scaling. A true hybrid, play as you want type of build will still need split resource pools resulting in lower overall damage numbers. When will damage only be dependent on weapon and spell damage and not max resource as part of the calculation?

This has to be taken seriously.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

At this point, please just remove the damage scaling from resources entirely. Or merge stamina and magicka into "energy" or something. Hybrid builds will continue to not be viable at endgame level as long as having a larger pool of magicka/stamina results in higher damage than splitting your resources.

Why would a true hybrid split their resource pools? Hybrids will still go either 64 points Magicka or 64 Stamina, and either way they will benefit from all of their hybrid skills scaling with the higher resource pool.

Even in the live patch hybrids should generally not split resources, that's something reserved for tanks. The change does not make ineffective hybrid builds into meta, but it does allow meta builds to incorporate more hybrid skills into their builds. It also makes things far less punishing for players that do not understand the game systems and just randomly pick skills and gear that look fun.

Exactly. Why would they? These changes do not achieve what they are trying to achieve. People will still only play mono-resource and only use off-resource skills to alleviate sustain issues.
ZOS is making changes to appeal to people who want to play hybrid, but hybrid players will still have to deal with poor sustain for their off-resource skills because splitting resources is still being discouraged. These changes do not make sense to me.
Streamlining buffs and debuffs is a good idea, making your skills scale indisciminately of your damage stat but still having two separate damage stats makes no sense to me. Either get rid of one or go back to separating them - I do not like where we are at right now and I do not know where we are headed.

I don't think these changes are aimed at making hybrids viable. I think they are aimed at allowing all classes the opportunity to use all of the skills at their disposal effectively. There are plenty of classes that force the sacrifice of defining skills to go mag or Stam, that can now use those skills I'm a strategic way to bolster their builds.

No, this is definitely a hybrid thing. The hybridization thing has been going on for a long long while now. If it was only about allowing classes to make use of their entire kit, then this change would have been the only one they made. Instead they made tons of changes to hybridize armor boni, to hybridize item sets and to hybridize buffs and debuffs. If every single skill dynamically chose between spell and weapon damage for scaling from the start, then there wouldn't be the need to hybridize buffs because Major Brutality would have all your magicka skills covered anyway.
This is 100% a hybrid build thing and it makes no sense to me at all.

Hybridization of skills /= making hybrids viable.

Their goal this entire time has been to make skills and sets useful across mag and Stam. Always while still requiring you to focus on either mag and Stam to be effective. That focus isn't going away, but more and more skills and sets are now useful on either mag or Stam, allowing for a lot more options to make a build.

True hybrid stat builds will never work properly anymore and that is intentional. There is a reason they blew up pelinals.

Remind me again how that was the case when they made medium armor boost spell damage and light armor boost weapon critical. They blew up Pelinals because they felt it wasn't hitting the mark and they think the changes they have made and are making now remove the need to use the old Pelinals.
The changes to Deadly Strikes also only make sense for hybridization because that set was good the way it was for stam, then got turned hybrid and had to be nerfed because it would have been overpowered for magicka. They could have just added a mag exclusive version if it was about letting magicka players use the set - no need to ruin it for one or the other unless you are for some reason insisting it works for both to include hybrids... And also how do you explain that weapon abilities will now have hybrid scaling? That's to allow people to use Greatswords on mag and Staves on stam builds (making things more hybrid), instead of just limitting the hybrid scaling to just class skills, since those are what magicka and stamina specs are fighting over morphs for. But no, they included weapon skills in this because they want to improve hybrid builds, yet they fail to do so every single time.
The fact that we can even debate the developer intention shows very clearly that the Devs have failed to properly communicate their vision to us.
But here is a quote from the previous combat preview for update 32:

Our focus in Update 32 is two-fold: improving proc set balance and continuing the hybridization improvements from previous updates.

They include weapon skills because, again, they are trying to make all skills/gear viable on either mag or Stam. That is what hybridization has always meant in the context that Zos has used it in every instance. It has never meant making split stat hybrid builds viable.

What point does that serve? Who is ZOS trying to cater to? Why do you need to make Hunding's and Julianos hybrid? We already had plenty of mirror pair sets in the game, especially when it comes to raw stats, so all of these changes are to allow for hybrid builds to use traditional mono-stat sets instead of relying on things like Pelinals, which was essentially a missing 5th piece bonus just for the sake of making you hybrid.
I think, that it has never meant making split stat builds viable is the exact issue, because the people that want to play hybrid want to play split stat builds. They want that mainly so they can use both their martial and magic skills together in roughly equal measure. They did that in Skyrim and there you had to split your resources too, so why not here? It also makes a lot more sense that way because if you want to be good at two things, logically you should invest into two things. They don't want to play pure mag with a twohander or pure stam with a staff - they want to be true hybrids and that is not happening, because ZOS has been failing to give them that time and time again while achieving largely nothing with their other changes.
It certainly isn't succeeding in opening up more choices - a choice between a bad build and a good build is not choice at all. I am still not playing magicka in medium armor, because sustain becomes an issue to the point where it just isn't fun. If that's intentional, then what was the intention there?
It does succeed in homogenizing everything though because now every mag build can use and abuse Momentum and Crit Rush and Vigor, same as stam.

It's not something zos is failing to deliver. It's something zos has never said they will deliver.

And think about it logistically. In order to make true hybrid build viable they scaling would have to drastically change, to the point where either hybrids are stronger than mag or Stam only builds or mag and Stam builds are incidentally buffed to the point that hybrid builds are still so far behind them in DPS output that they are still bad.

There won't be any homogenization, because, as has been said here countless times, you have limited off resources, so you need to pick your off stat skills selectively for the build you are running and use them sparingly because you won't be able to sustain them for long. A mag spec is not going to abuse momentum or crit rush or vigor because they will run out of Stam and then be entirely unable to break free or roll dodge. It opens up a ton of build possibilities. Because that mag build may be able to utilize vigor sparingly as a self heal or a Stam build may be able to use a class spammable that provides a better synergy with their build than a weapon spammable. Magdks might be able to use a Stam execute, like steel tornado, to help secure kills.

The possibilities of how to put together builds with these changes are endless and a great addition to the game. Players just need to get past being hung up on the split stat hybrid idea. This isn't Skyrim, it never has been Skyrim. Split stat hybrids are not ever going to be a thing, and that is good. This skill scaling change is a positive improvement to the combat system.

Drdeath20

Instead of the stamina / magicka split (2) we now have class differences (6).

jaws343

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Instead of the stamina / magicka split (2) we now have class differences (6).

So what spammable is a stamplar going to run? They won't have enough mag to run any mag spammable.

Class and Stam/mag split will still matter. But the option to add in one or two off stat dots or aoes is a huge plus. You will still mainly run skills that match your primary stat but you have more options to use your off stat to enhance your build. This isn't eliminating mag or Stam builds. Mag and Stam builds won't be running the same setups, it won't be feasible to do so. They may share some skills, but they won't be carbon copies.

Tannus15

jaws343 wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Instead of the stamina / magicka split (2) we now have class differences (6).

So what spammable is a stamplar going to run? They won't have enough mag to run any mag spammable.

Class and Stam/mag split will still matter. But the option to add in one or two off stat dots or aoes is a huge plus. You will still mainly run skills that match your primary stat but you have more options to use your off stat to enhance your build. This isn't eliminating mag or Stam builds. Mag and Stam builds won't be running the same setups, it won't be feasible to do so. They may share some skills, but they won't be carbon copies.

on pretty much any class you can run your off stat as a spammable using (main max stat / off stat regen) food. pots will be enough to keep your max stat happy and if you're only running a spammable on your off stat the regen is plenty.

jaws343

Tannus15 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Instead of the stamina / magicka split (2) we now have class differences (6).

So what spammable is a stamplar going to run? They won't have enough mag to run any mag spammable.

Class and Stam/mag split will still matter. But the option to add in one or two off stat dots or aoes is a huge plus. You will still mainly run skills that match your primary stat but you have more options to use your off stat to enhance your build. This isn't eliminating mag or Stam builds. Mag and Stam builds won't be running the same setups, it won't be feasible to do so. They may share some skills, but they won't be carbon copies.

on pretty much any class you can run your off stat as a spammable using (main max stat / off stat regen) food. pots will be enough to keep your max stat happy and if you're only running a spammable on your off stat the regen is plenty.

Yeah, I am sure any mag class setup is going to survive in pvp running a Stam spammable when they run out of stamina to dodge it break free.

Stam setups won't have enough mag to effectively run a spammable and dropping recovery into mag and away from their primary stat would greatly diminish their ability to maintain their main stat skills.

This change will be best for skills with long duration that only need to be cast a few times during an encounter, or for healing. It won't be useful to run off stat skills like they are primary stat skills.

Iron_Warrior

After this change sustain management will be even more meaningless (at least in pve), so you need to do something about breton and redguard that boost sustain, even now every race can sustain just fine but after these changes these 2 races sustain will become even more useless, so i think it would be nice to buff their max stat from 2k to 3k stam or mag.

vesselwiththepestle

Bosmers should get their Stamina recovery bonus then improved to + Stamina recovery and Magicka recovery, just like Altmer, Dunmer, and Orsimer geht + Weapon Damage and Magicka Damage.

Redguards, well, they need a complete overhaul anyway.

Araxyte

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable.

Probably unpopular opinion but here goes. Seeing a big stamina orc using magic skills and wielding a staff... c'mon. I feel like the whole combat system, which has hugely contributed to the success of the game, is just being completely torn down and re-built to the point where class, race and sets don't matter anymore. I can also imagine this making PvP even more unstable. I miss the days of needing to make a new character and class to be able to fit into a specific play style. Did we really ask for something this extreme?

Seraphayel

Araxyte wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

In Update 33, the changes are focused on making almost every player ability in the game scale dynamically with your highest offensive stats when applicable.

Probably unpopular opinion but here goes. Seeing a big stamina orc using magic skills and wielding a staff... c'mon. I feel like the whole combat system, which has hugely contributed to the success of the game, is just being completely torn down and re-built to the point where class, race and sets don't matter anymore. I can also imagine this making PvP even more unstable. I miss the days of needing to make a new character and class to be able to fit into a specific play style. Did we really ask for something this extreme?

This isn’t extreme. It’s the core of Elder Scrolls. The issue is, that ESO is a multiplayer game and therefore classes need to be balanced and competitive.

It’s still the quintessence of ESO to be able to mix and match playstyles and make them work - this helps and is by no means a bad change. It just doubles the options for each spec when you can all of a sudden use Magicka abilities as Stamina and Stamina abilities as Magicka.