Update 33 Combat Preview

ealdwin

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about,

?

Best guess is something similar to the Fracture + Breach = Breach change.

IronWooshu

I like this change for abilities scaling off highest weapon or spell damage. I also hope this means that Templars and Dragonknights are the only classes with access to minor sorcery and minor brutality. Which I'm completely fine with sharing.

With the hybridization of skills tho you need to go back and look at races. Pure Magicka and pure Stamina races are killing the "play how you want to play" mantra. @ZOS_Gilliam

phaneub17_ESO

Curious how this will affect hybrid builds that evens out both resources, so generally focuses on increasing weapon/spell damage to supplement the damage loss. I do however like to see all the daedric pets scale with max stats so that stamina players can use the exploding imp and get effective healing out of the matriarch. Can you also reevaluate the clannfear burst healing to be a heal over time? Also would like companions taunt to cast while the clannfear area taunt is in effect, right now the pet's passive threat generator prevents the companions from regaining control when their taunt effect falls off and won't recast until the clannfear dies forcing constant recasts of the pet.

I'm hoping some changes like to Lotus Flower morphs where one increases the duration and the other increases the healing done now that it will grant both weapon and spell critical. Likewise with Inner Light can be used with stamina builds as another source for weapon critical earlier on before getting something better.

Would it be weird if more abilities worked like soul trap that changed damage type based on highest stat? I like to see a new skills in the future that does that, based on your max stats like magic/physical, frost/disease, fire/poison, or shock/bleed while costs remain static to magicka or stamina.

ZiggyTStardust

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

In general I'm concerned about this forcing everybody into builds that cherry-pick the best skills.

I hope we will end up in a place where the diffrent morph are both equally competetive but just offer diffrent playstyles, so you can pick and choose on how the skill feels and looks, and not only based o

Bowser

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

...such as Power Bash’s new functionality of being treated as a Bash attack...

Cool! I hope this turns into a good damage ability for tanks.

joseayalac

Then nerf Vigor please! It was implemented just because stam characters where falling behind in heals, but makes no sense thematically.

Vaoh

I think most players would be fine if only the abilities which have Magicka+Stamina morphs were given this sort of scaling.

But all abilities....?

...waiting for PTS

TempestM

In moments like this it's extremely painful that his forum doesn't have dislike reaction

What are you doing is not hybridization! It's homogenization! Everything will be played in the same way and choices won't matter when everything just scales from the highest stat. Next stamina and magicka will be merged into one stat?
Please, stop pushing in this direction, it's killing any variety

In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about

I'm very rarely in the "devs are dumbing down the game" crowd but this is literally what it is! "Just pick whatever you want and don't worry about it, choices do not matter"

robpr

sonwon.1_ESO wrote: »

Since weaving is allowed with light attacks shouldn't weaving also work with heavy attacks?

You already can that, pressing a skill during charging heavy will queue the skill fire right after GCD ends cancelling rest of the heavy animation

Iron_Warrior

Now people are going to play the same way even more. Who comes up with this ideas?

I want to go back. Eso classic when ?

Destai

This is awesome. I'm pretty excited about this.

Parasaurolophus

Well... I don't want to lose my optimism, but there are some things that worry me. In today's realities, in PvE everyone will be forced to use the inferno maelstrom staff. Yes, I understand that more free gameplay is good. But now, instead of playing mages / wars that we understand, we will be forced to make some kind of mutants from our characters without a clear identification in pursuit of the meta. And it is possible that this will destroy our identification as magclass or stamclass and be just a class. It scares me.
I hope these changes will be similar to the armor passive changes. They were good, but did not change anything cardinally. However, weapons and skills are a completely different matter.

VarisVaris

Some broken combinations that people have mentioned in the first 10 seconds after they heard about this change:

Magdk with Master's DW.
Magplar with vigor (on top of that absolutely unnecessary buff to javalin).
Stamnecro with intensive mender and resistant flesh.
Stamdk with Coagulating.
Stamnb with healthy offering and merciless resolve.

What the result of this change will be pvp is that there will be no longer mag or stam specs for each class but there will be one single skill set for each class and that's it, maybe we see some variance in which of the broken sets are being used but there will be absolutely no variety in which skills are being used.

Wyrd88

What is the point of having separate weapon or spell dmg stat then? Just make one called "power".
What is the point of having two different resource pools and invest and manage them separately? Just make on generic "resource pool".
Class identity? Spec diversity? Never heard of it, lol.

Ragnaroek93

Literally throws pvp balance and unique class design out of the window. Probably the worst update for PvP so far by a large margin.

You remove half of the classes. There won't be stuff like stam nb and mag nb anymore. There'll just be nb. There's probably one stat which is just superior over the other and this stat will be stacked and half the races will be useless.

You're not making the game casual friendly by fundamentally changing how the game is played the entire time. That's just catering to a toxic minority of players who hate everybody who plays the game in an even semi optimized way.

This will most likely go down this way: Every skill will just flat out scale with max magicka and spell damage, weapon damage as a stat gets removed from the game, stamina gets a rework and will be a ressource for block/dodge. Armor types will get rebalanced. Racials will be either rebalanced or removed. Healing needs a rebalance as well (imagine stacking vigor with a resto staff).
This will probably take a year and until then we'll be stuck with a broken mess which frustrates everybody who cares about playing an optimized build. Go for more class morphs for stam and magicka if you want to but don't just let everything scale with everything in literally one patch. This is insanity, I'm not going to beta test this mess.

kookster

I am excited for the build potentials that open with this, i have always hated running degeneration on mag toons to get major sorcery, i run a 2h on my templar so i can use rally/forward momentum to get it, sounds good to me. Though I am concerned about potentially broken combos opening up. We will have to see how things go on the PTS, but I am cautiously optimistic.

From_Siberia

I have a much better idea. For dismiss:

- all Content Designers
- all Combat Designers
- all from marketing department

After failed presentation of new chapter, you also added news on next day about another major and epic crazy rebalancing of system? You don't add hybridization as an alternative, you make it so that only hybrids exist in game.

I'm sorry, but i think incompetence of your team has gone beyond all possible limits. If so, better hire Korean specialists pls

Einstein_

idk how ppl think thats a good change....it will homogenize everything into one BiS speck...everybody will play the class with the same meta build stam(class) = mag(class)....there will be no diversity anymore.....

this is a complete flipp of every thing in this game PvE/PvP if you dont see that you are jsut naive.

balancing will be poop because its always poop if you do major changes like this.

silvereyes

I like the overall hybridization design goal.

However, I agree this will probably be an absolute nightmare to balance. I foresee many long forums threads about certain builds being too OP, and then having the skills they use nerfed into obsolescence.

theweakminded

People really seem confused that this is just adding more skills to the same scaling system on many abilities now... its not adding more power to them

Vevvev

Great, my worst fear.... The werewolf magicka build that simply won't die and hit hard to is now making it's appearance.

kookster

VarisVaris wrote: »

Some broken combinations that people have mentioned in the first 10 seconds after they heard about this change:

Magdk with Master's DW.
Magplar with vigor (on top of that absolutely unnecessary buff to javalin).
Stamnecro with intensive mender and resistant flesh.
Stamdk with Coagulating.
Stamnb with healthy offering and merciless resolve.

What the result of this change will be pvp is that there will be no longer mag or stam specs for each class but there will be one single skill set for each class and that's it, maybe we see some variance in which of the broken sets are being used but there will be absolutely no variety in which skills are being used.

A lot of classes will get something that can make them even stronger.. but then theirs mag sorc and how theres literally nothing from the stam side that would make it stronger.. just kind of pointing out how bad of a place stam sorc is in vs magsorc.

Maybe I'm not thinking of something, if anyone can feel free to reply.

dinokstrunz

Vevvev wrote: »

Great, my worst fear.... The werewolf magicka build that simply won't die and hit hard to is now making it's appearance.

No. Werewolf is dogpoop and has been for some time.

VaranisArano

Seraphayel wrote: »

Does this mean we can effectively use Staves as Stamina players and Bows as Magicka players and still be competitive and deal the same damage?

"With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen."


As I understand it, a staff-wielding Stam player will deal the same damage, but the skills still costs magicka.

If all you want to do is cast Elemental Blockade every cycle through your rotation, it should be fine. If you were hoping to use Force Pulse as your spammable, you'll chew through your limited magicka pretty quickly.

Same for a Magicka player - the occasional Endless Hail and Caltrops for extra damage over time isn't going to break the bank, but you probably won't have the stamina sustain for a full bow/bow build.

Does that make sense?

Nisekev

Sounds like you may as well merge stamina and magicka bars/attributes into one to save time.

xDeusEJRx

Time to get mega healing on my stam characters because of this. PVPers beware

Seraphayel

VaranisArano wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Does this mean we can effectively use Staves as Stamina players and Bows as Magicka players and still be competitive and deal the same damage?

"With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities, but with less concern as to how powerful that ability is based on what stat path you’ve chosen."


As I understand it, a staff-wielding Stam player will deal the same damage, but the skills still costs magicka.

If all you want to do is cast Elemental Blockade every cycle through your rotation, it should be fine. If you were hoping to use Force Pulse as your spammable, you'll chew through your limited magicka pretty quickly.

Same for a Magicka player - the occasional Endless Hail and Caltrops for extra damage over time isn't going to break the bank, but you probably won't have the stamina sustain for a full bow/bow build.

Does that make sense?

It does and if it really works like that it opens up a lot of possibilies. I always wanted to play other different versions of characters and not just the usual one. A dual wield mag DK, a bow Mag Sorc, maybe a Frost Staff Stamden.

Faulgor

I'm delighted about the mess this is going to make! This shall be known as the Sheogorath update.

In a way, this is the logical conclusion of a system without attributes (Strength, Intelligence, Willpower, etc).
The main determinant for a spell's / ability's power in TES has usually been the associated skill. So when I max out my "Siphoning" skill, why should it matter that some abilities cost magicka and some stamina? I've already mastered the skill, give me full power!

Of course this suggests that in the long run, Spell and Weapon Power should be consolidated into one stat as well, that just serves to differentiate between different players and a choice between damage, sustain, defense, etc within a build.

I can see this make sense. Hopefully down the line, this means we will get more interesting and varied morphs instead of "the green and the blue one".
Not really sure about the example for Lotus Flower though. I feel that skill needs something more.

Noerra

I'm both excited for this and terrified that we will create some monster Meta Balance issues xD

Overall excited though of course... really interesting.... So Power/Reverb Bash from SnB skill line will scale off resists? Bash Builds going to love that.

Also - In pvp it's going to be very hard to kill anyone now that they have access to both Vigor and Regen O_O

StShoot

VaranisArano wrote: »

VarisVaris wrote: »

This is the worst thing that could have ever happened to Eso's combat system.

I can't think of anything that would create more balance issues than this change of making all skills scale with your highest resources.

This will blow survivability through the roof with everyone being able to run Vigor.

Vigor is still going to cost stamina.

Speaking of when I regularly ran as a MagDK healer with my Raid, stamina management was a big limiting factor. I could use Vigor in a pinch or even sometimes as part of a rotation, but it was always balanced against the need to keep enough stamina to block, dodge, sprint, and roll out of those Negates ASAP.

I think that cost will still be a factor here, like they said: "With this, we want to retain the identity of many playstyles by reinforcing ability cost as a limiting factor in how frequently you can engage with abilities,"

It might be a problem that my occasional Vigor can heal my teammates for more now, but this change won't let me cast more Vigors without running myself out of Stamina.

Yeah but thats only the case for magica specs. Staminas on the otherhand will have a blast with this change, because their off resource is not limited by dodging, blocking and sprinting.