A Interesting Concept That New World and other games implemented, Would it work for ESO?

NagualV

Elsonso wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Also, New World is not a great game to use as an example since it is has become an abject failure losing 85% of their players in the first couple of months.

What is remaining of the New World players seems like a solid base to build from, though. Where I thought that this might be a short term game, I am now considering that it will be around for longer.

My perception is that the way that New World manages and guides player activities is much different than how ESO does. This is why overland PVP works in New World, and why it would not work in ESO. It isn't the open world PVP, it is the activity that requires PVP. For this reason, you cannot just plop New World PVP rules into ESO and expect it to work.

Very true

Tandor

New World is supposed to be PvP centred, although as a result of beta feedback that was drastically drawn back on, while ESO is PvE centred, and always was - despite whatsome original PvPers claim on the basis of being blinded by one small part of the pre-release marketing hype. Look on the back of the original box, it couldn't be clearer.

So no, the idea that ZOS should "Use City's as safe harborage for open world flaggable pvp" is a complete non-starter. As for the "flaggable" bit, that is always so easily exploited as to be meaningless. Moreover, ZOS make it very clear after the commercial disaster that was Imperial City and their cancellation of PvP in the Justice System that they wouldn't be mixing PvP and PvE again.

Mayrael

Well. I've played few games with some versions of OW PvP and I really liked it but that's just me. Yeah I'm one of these 3 players who would like it, but I'm not delusional, majority wouldn't like it (despite the fact that IC is not a ghost town at all).

Tandor

Mayrael wrote: »

Well. I've played few games with some versions of OW PvP and I really liked it but that's just me. Yeah I'm one of these 3 players who would like it, but I'm not delusional, majority wouldn't like it (despite the fact that IC is not a ghost town at all).

I have no problems with open world PvP in games that are (a) PvP centred and (b) designed for open world PvP in particular from the outset. ESO is not one of those games, but they do exist for those who want them. Any hint of open world PvP here and a lot of players would disappear overnight, even if it was indicated to be optional, because those players' experience of being caught up in optional PvP in other games would raise a red flag for them.

Jaimeh

I wouldn't like that either because it'd be too disruptive to immersion in overland zones, but the way people are talking about pvp'ing in this thread as if it's some dirty gameplay activity needs to calm down...

IonicKai

The issue I see with open world PVP in ESO is what would it be for? New world it worked ish because there were perks and a need for it and even then during the time that I played the majority of players did not opt in. May have been different on some servers but that was relatively low participation for a game centered around territory control. ESO doesn't have that concept and it wouldn't make a lot of sense to add. It could make things mildly interesting but I imagine it would get even less participation than new world did and the result would be that it was likely not worth the dev effort. Just my thoughts though.

Varana

It wasn't just a bit of marketing hype that ESO initially intended to be much more PvP-focused. The whole journey through the game was constructed in a way that ultimately led you into the PvP areas, and considered PvP the endgame for many/most players. Even the land grab aspect of the Cyrodiil castles tied into that intended gameplay.

But, and that is the stark difference: It was never intended as an open PvP game; PvP was intended to be restricted to Cyrodiil alone. The game led you through a typical RPG start with quests and progression into the separate PvP endgame. (Hot take: Like many PvP enthusiasts, they were misled by the illusion that players would certainly start enjoying PvP if they only got the chance to experience it.) I mean, most of the Cyrodiil infrastructure was there from the start but they didn't have any group dungeons.

So, it was intended to be more PvP-focused, but not as much and in a different way than NW or similar games. And they corrected course hard. That worked way better than for NW because ESO already had a strong PvE part built in, and they just needed to expand on this, instead of totally restructuring their game.

mickeyx

Subjectcrank wrote: »

Use City's as safe harborage for open world flaggable pvp? So the concept is simple, run repeatable killing or gathering missions while flagging yourself for pvp? In Any zone. Put a mission NPC for these quests, with also a vender for gear subsequent to your rating in OW-PVP. Could this work without taking away that of which is already set for pvp areas? Also while flagged using your assistants and companions wouldn't be available. and the only way to unflag yourself is being in a city. Where and once you leave the designated flagging/unflagging area you have a 10 second timer Before you can engage in pvp.

It is just a concept. but The one thing I did enjoy from New World was grinding pvp sets while running on foot flagged through the trees, not knowing if or when i would get attacked.

No we are not taking any ideas from a game where around 74k players are left (half of which are probably farming bots) out of 900,000 players just few months into release. No thanks.

kargen27

The zones in ESO were not designed with PvP in mind. There are no PvP oriented goals or locations to draw players and there are no choke points. The population would be far to spread out to make PvP fun as encounters would be sporadic at best. One of the big complaints in New World is not enough players flag for PvP. They have added incentives for players to flag but still other than peak times if you are not at a PvP objective not much fighting takes place.

With ESO the interest simply isn't there. Not from the players nor the developers.

Subjectcrank

Fair enough people LOL, my phone keeps dinging with email notifications haha, It was merely an idea, nothing more. Very passionate responses however it is noted.

Amottica

Subjectcrank wrote: »

Fair enough people LOL, my phone keeps dinging with email notifications haha, It was merely an idea, nothing more. Very passionate responses however it is noted.

Just FYI, you can stop the notifications.

spartaxoxo

drsalvation wrote: »

The first MMO I ever played was called Perfect World International, it had PvE and PvP servers, and if you were in a PvP server, at lvl 30 you'd be forced into being in PvP state forever, at any moment. Players could kill you at any moment in any quest in any dungeon.
PvE servers would allow players to go into PvP mode, same rules and everything, their names would turn red the more players they killed. And there would be a cooldown (the more you killed, the longer the cooldown) before you could return to PvE mode, and in PvE, you couldn't be killed by any players, you could engage in duels tho.

If ESO did the same, then maybe your concept could work

Hey, a fellow PWI player! Cool!

Yeah, that's the only way it could work. You had to intentionally turn on PVP to do it on the PVE server, but in that game people were pretty good about not doing it in towns. I remember they'd PVP just outside of them, like at gates outside of Archosaur. Here they do it right outside the wayshrine, so it's much more intrusive. I remember the PVE servers were also a lot more popular than the PVP ones. Unfortunately, I also remember sometimes areas would open to PVP that shouldn't have been, and as a result people could be PK'ed just trying to do normal things and those areas got flooded with griefers when they glitched.


Personally having played games where there was a mix and ones with separate spaces, I greatly prefer separate spaces. It increases the quality of the game for both parties, IMO. PvPers know everyone is there to fight and have less targets, but more targets that will actually put a good fight. And PvE'ers don't have to be someone else's target dummy.

The one thing that game had that I wish this one did too was the cat shops! I miss being able to open up my own little store that anyone could browse.

M0ntie

Most people seem to have not read the suggestion properly. It is proposed as an OPTION. I don’t see the harm if it is confined to out of town AND it is opt IN only. Most of the country side is pretty empty. They could add a feature that highlighted an area where opposing faction players were so people hunting for intruders/spy’s (other open world pvpers) had a clue where to find them. It could make an option for an exciting hide and seek. You can duel anywhere so it is basically an open duel invitation.
Questers can just stay opted out and ignore them, like they do with duelers. It could move duellers away from their usual cluster hang outs too.

Sylvermynx

M0ntie wrote: »

Most people seem to have not read the suggestion properly. It is proposed as an OPTION. I don’t see the harm if it is confined to out of town AND it is opt IN only. Most of the country side is pretty empty. They could add a feature that highlighted an area where opposing faction players were so people hunting for intruders/spy’s (other open world pvpers) had a clue where to find them. It could make an option for an exciting hide and seek. You can duel anywhere so it is basically an open duel invitation.
Questers can just stay opted out and ignore them, like they do with duelers. It could move duellers away from their usual cluster hang outs too.

"Opt in only" allows for way too much griefing of those who do NOT opt in. There are SO many ways to "trap" not flagged characters.... and I've probably seen most of them in WoW and RIFT.

M0ntie

How? You can’t be trapped into a duel when opted out.

Sylvermynx

M0ntie wrote: »

How? You can’t be trapped into a duel when opted out.

I'm not talking about duels. I'm talking about opt in pvp. There are many many ways to grief those who do not opt in. I've been targeted by nearly all of them in other games in the past. And no, I don't particularly want to detail them - in case this bad idea somehow becomes a good idea in the minds of the devs.

In other words, I'm not going to help those who pvp entrap those who would chose not to pvp. I'm sure you can google it.

JJOtterBear

BIG no to open world pvp in ESO. Unless you could toggle yourself any time, not just in a city. If you need to pvp that badly there are plenty of other games that cater to that need.

Subjectcrank

Sylvermynx wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

How? You can’t be trapped into a duel when opted out.

I'm not talking about duels. I'm talking about opt in pvp. There are many many ways to grief those who do not opt in. I've been targeted by nearly all of them in other games in the past. And no, I don't particularly want to detail them - in case this bad idea somehow becomes a good idea in the minds of the devs.

In other words, I'm not going to help those who pvp entrap those who would chose not to pvp. I'm sure you can google it.

The thing about opting in to OWPVP is it can only be turned off and on in towns so, trapping someone to opt in outside of towns is not possible I don’t see how this brings griefing to the plate.
To note you can’t be flagged for at least 30 seconds after leaving the town. So it is a choice to play pvp or not. No one forces anyone to participate

Sylvermynx

Well, I'm not at all sure that the devs here would do it that way - and having been on the other end of that stick, I'm not interested in seeing it at all here.

Your proposal is that it would only be activated when in a city. I wouldn't be willing to hold my breath that it would wind up that way.

Pvp needs to stay in Cyro and BGs.

Subjectcrank

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Well, I'm not at all sure that the devs here would do it that way - and having been on the other end of that stick, I'm not interested in seeing it at all here.

Your proposal is that it would only be activated when in a city. I wouldn't be willing to hold my breath that it would wind up that way.

Pvp needs to stay in Cyro and BGs.

Wind up that way? If they stick to a Rule to have it Opt in only and can only be toggled on or off in town, I don’t see how this affects people in PVE mode to even worry about PvPers I never had any issue with pvpers griefing me in the entirety of my online experiences since I started gaming online in 1995 or so. I can understand if things got heated in an argument and one thing leads to another. But usually a action requires a reaction. If there is no reaction?

Sylvermynx

Obviously you never played WoW and RIFT? Both opt in pvp, and in both, I and many others were griefed repeatedly on "normal" servers - there are so many ways to do that....

However, I do believe the devs here have no interest in pvp outside of Cyro and BGs. Works for me.

Subjectcrank

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Obviously you never played WoW and RIFT? Both opt in pvp, and in both, I and many others were griefed repeatedly on "normal" servers - there are so many ways to do that....

However, I do believe the devs here have no interest in pvp outside of Cyro and BGs. Works for me.

Just to clarify. People on normal servers were flagged for pvp in wow as you are saying and you were not flagged for pvp? How exactly were you being griefed? In new world or any game that has an OPT in there usually is a warning from the Dev team stating that you are on your own once you become flagged it’s that simple. But I am just curious how from not being flagged you ran to town flagged yourself and then what happened? Or am I missing something?

Sylvermynx

In WoW and RIFT you did not "run to town" to flag. One who wished to flag could do so anywhere.

I played on a WoW pvp server with a friend's guild. I hated every minute of it. II don't want it open world. If it winds up open world here, I'll take my money and leave.

Subjectcrank

Sylvermynx wrote: »

In WoW and RIFT you did not "run to town" to flag. One who wished to flag could do so anywhere.

I played on a WoW pvp server with a friend's guild. I hated every minute of it. II don't want it open world. If it winds up open world here, I'll take my money and leave.

Ah yeah, they was WoW though. I specifically stated in the top of this thread. “New World” it’s different there and you obviously never played it. So what I am referring to you don’t know how it actually works when you can only opt in from a town and knowing full well that it is PvP. Completely different scenario. In that game PVE players have 0 issues doing there PVE things. At least I never did. But when I decided to opt in for pvp then I made a choice to participate in it

Sylvermynx

Nope, I wouldn't touch NW with a hundred foot pole. And I have family members who tried it, and weren't at all complimentary. I don't want any of that in ESO.

Subjectcrank

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Nope, I wouldn't touch NW with a hundred foot pole. And I have family members who tried it, and weren't at all complimentary. I don't want any of that in ESO.

For me the opt In to pvp seemed like the only thing new world had going for it. When I felt like pvping I would opt in. When I didn’t I could PVE all I wanted it was a nice exchange on the mood. But to each there own I suppose I just really liked having that as an option for when I wanted to earn a small bonus and do daily gather missions etc.

NagualV

...its NEVER happening in this game. Period. And it's a good thing -

Game isnt set up for it, the overwhelming amount of the playerbase would hate it....

OsUfi

Isn't that Ultima Online from the 1990's? As far as I can tell, New World bought nothing new to the table. That's one of its many problems.

Also, no. I do love PvP. but in the case of ESO, far, far, far, far too many people have bought ESO for the PvE content. Which is awesome. If PvP was forced on them it would end the game. If it's opt-in, you end up with a dead PvP overland like Felucca.

I do quite enjoy the multiple different types of battlegrounds and Cyrodil. I would far rather Zenimax spent time and resources improving them, and maybe introducing new PvP match types.

Kwoung

Amottica wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Also, New World is not a great game to use as an example since it is has become an abject failure losing 85% of their players in the first couple of months.

What is remaining of the New World players seems like a solid base to build from, though. Where I thought that this might be a short term game, I am now considering that it will be around for longer.

My perception is that the way that New World manages and guides player activities is much different than how ESO does. This is why overland PVP works in New World, and why it would not work in ESO. It isn't the open world PVP, it is the activity that requires PVP. For this reason, you cannot just plop New World PVP rules into ESO and expect it to work.

While the actual number of players leaving the game is reduced, it is mostly because the number of players remaining are so small.

It is still decreasing. When looking specifically at January the game was easily breaching 100k at the beginning of the month. Between the 10th and 17th, they only hit 100k a couple of times. Since then they have not come close.

I am sure the game will be around for a long time but it is not worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as ESO. I would also note that I capped my faction reputation doing the PvP quests since it offers greater rewards. I never had anyone attack me when on the quests. Outside of the wars to take a zone I rarely came across PvP. It is not even a good PvP game.

I feel like it is doing the same as almost every other MMO: Big release, huge disappointment, massive changes... then a playable game evolves over the next few years and it regains popularity. ESO did the same back in the day, but is now sadly declining back into being unplayable.

NagualV

Kwoung wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Also, New World is not a great game to use as an example since it is has become an abject failure losing 85% of their players in the first couple of months.

What is remaining of the New World players seems like a solid base to build from, though. Where I thought that this might be a short term game, I am now considering that it will be around for longer.

My perception is that the way that New World manages and guides player activities is much different than how ESO does. This is why overland PVP works in New World, and why it would not work in ESO. It isn't the open world PVP, it is the activity that requires PVP. For this reason, you cannot just plop New World PVP rules into ESO and expect it to work.

While the actual number of players leaving the game is reduced, it is mostly because the number of players remaining are so small.

It is still decreasing. When looking specifically at January the game was easily breaching 100k at the beginning of the month. Between the 10th and 17th, they only hit 100k a couple of times. Since then they have not come close.

I am sure the game will be around for a long time but it is not worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as ESO. I would also note that I capped my faction reputation doing the PvP quests since it offers greater rewards. I never had anyone attack me when on the quests. Outside of the wars to take a zone I rarely came across PvP. It is not even a good PvP game.

I feel like it is doing the same as almost every other MMO: Big release, huge disappointment, massive changes... then a playable game evolves over the next few years and it regains popularity. ESO did the same back in the day, but is now sadly declining back into being unplayable.

It's not as bad as people think it is, and people forget how bad ESO launch was. People forget all of the crazy abilities/builds that existed back then in ESO/dupe bugs, etc.

It's also not casual friendly(nor pve friendly), and it will never appeal to the majority of the playerbase in this game. I feel people have discounted it and have stopped following its progress, dismissing it as an abject failure, despite the fact they are making a lot of progress. Ranked arenas/battlegrounds will be very good.

On topic though, NW is designed differently than ESO and is meant to appeal to a different playerbase. Open world pvp wont work in eso. Which is fine, eso is a wonderful game without it.