Is ZoS killing the game by allow players selling runs?

Arunei

colossalvoids wrote: »

Honestly speaking I really dislike when all the "veteran", "100k+" or however you want to call them are labelled more as a service rather than players. Like they should help everyone no matter what at any given moment and if they've found other avenues it's wrong and killing the game.

No one is saying players with 100k+ DPS are a "service". What we're saying is the people who sell runs are offering a service, there's a difference. People who sell runs are skilled enough to carry less capable players through some of the hardest content in the game, they deserve to be paid for their effort. Just like crafters deserve to be paid for the effort and mats that goes into crafting gold sets for people.

People selling runs ARE helping people. Just because there's a price on something doesn't mean that thing isn't a service or isn't helpful. It's just compensation for their time.

EmperorIl

Being able to sell crowns for in-game gold is 1000000 times worse for the game than selling runs for gold.

atherusmora

I don’t think it’s killing the game. I’ve completed every trial in the game in normal via PUGs. Vet Trial runs for cosmetic have been harder to come by. This is because Prog runs for achievements take time. Even a top tier PUG will wipe once or twice in a trial. I’ve never seen or heard of a PUG completing trifectas, but I know mathematically it can be done. I will say that it is becoming increasingly difficult to group for trials I want to run for achievements/skins. In fact in the 7 years I’ve been playing this game I’ve not once been able to group for a Trial skin run, and I have tried all of the above suggestions.

There just aren’t as many guilds willing/able to run this content on console that are not already filled with guild favorites. I believe there is a larger majority of endgame players that are kept out Vet trials because 12 man groups leaves little room for subs, and if you’re on a raid team in a guild it’s likely because you have the time to actually commit to the team.

I work a 9-5, and have a life outside of ESO. I enjoy all that ESO has to offer (RP, PvX, Crafting, Trading, Housing, etc.). I’ve def committed time to get the dungeon and arena achievements I want, but I don’t have time to sit in Craglorn LFG for X Vet trial, and I don’t have the social graces to finesse my way onto the few elite raid teams on PS4 NA. However, I do have the skill to complete this content, and so I refuse to buy a carry. All that to say ZOS please give us a Group Finder for trials!!

SidraWillowsky

Theros wrote: »

I will try to explain better. The problem in here is only this:

1) Players with nice damage are avoid pugs (we understand why)
2) But this same players will go if we pay a ride.

3) Most of the pugs have no damage at cuz they cant make rotation (like me) Max 70k dummy, 25k inside trials.
4) Since Pugs don't have damage we CAN'T make trials. Or ok, we can. But we finish 1 out of 10.

5) One day i join in one group to go make vet dungeon. Later on i find he call pugs to help him in the dugeon cuz he was selling loot. All of us in there go for free cuz he dont say anything to noone.
Its the same for Trials. I belive Many players are avoid to join, cuz "maybe" its a carry 25M run.
i never did anything with that guy. Not because he dont pay or give me money. But because it's 100% wrong selling loot (this is my opinion. But i respect yours)

6) Ofc the can sell whatever they whant sell. But this is making players with damage go away from pugs and joining sellers
7) Once again. I really belive at this moment only 70% of players can make vet Trials. And its only because 1 motive. no damage! Once again. Bad rotations, and no players to join.

I hope you understand what im saying. The problem in NOT selling runs. The problem is players avoid pugs to join with selling runs.

I've never charged anyone for a run, nor would I, but when I see someone advertising to pug runs of vet trials other than the Craglorns, I run in the opposite direction. Vet CR/SS/RG/whatever aren't just about DPS, they're about group organization and communication, which pug groups don't typically have, and I don't think it's possible for them *to* have the level that's needed, especially with any degree of consistence. Pug groups like that may work if the majority of players have completed the trial before, but if most haven't, it's like herding cats, which tends to be a miserable experience.

What I'd recommend for anyone wanting to get into vet trials is to join a vet trial progression guild. I'm currently working through the list of vet trials with a guild comprised of people who are relatively new to vet trials, and it's been really rewarding to see the, well... progression over the weeks that we take to complete vet trials. Plenty of the DPS players were well below where you are on the trial dummy when we started, and they've all improved significantly (RIP my days of pulling 20% of group DPS, lol. It's a good thing, though!). A huge part of that is knowing their part in the group and wanting to get better not only for their sake, but for the sake of everyone. That sort of thing is just not going to be something you find in a pug group, since it's a total mixed bag of players that varies each time you run a trial. You may have 4 100k DPS and a pro tank who can carry an otherwise mediocre group, or you could have 4 10k DPS who get belligerent and blame the group when you can't clear a boss.

I recommend using the in-game trial finder or the posts/subreddits where actual trial guilds (or guilds looking to get into vet prog runs) can advertise this stuff. It'll be much more rewarding than pugging vet trials and crossing your fingers that your group won't be awful.

I've kind of gone off on a tangent, but seriously-- pugging most vet trials is generally a terrible idea because you don't know what the group composition will look like from group to group. In good groups with high DPS, you might get carried and end up not actually learning the mechanics. In bad groups, you won't get anywhere. Either way, it's almost guaranteed to be an exercise in frustration, and I think your time would be better spent with a prog group.

And I do roll my eyes when I see people selling "guaranteed Kinras' dagger!" etc runs. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but it's kind of funny how good people can be at finding ways to monetize everything. I get why they do it, though.

BlossomDead

If ZOS could streamline a bit the combat system so that it wouldn't require such clunky mechanics more fit to robots playing the game to output the required DPS and add a Trial finder I think we would all get a fairer chance at running this content even in PUGs.

Even when joining guilds there is no guarantee you will find people interested doing the dungeons or trials you need, especially if you are a new player like me and everyone else already went through them a million times or they're not flavour of the patch.

We need tools/streamlining to enable more people to do them, in all modes, in order to increase the overall experience for everyone IMHO.

I'm still waiting to find a group for vBRP to get my perfected mending ward. It's been a month, 4 PvE guilds, spamming Craglorn chat. It's simply not happening. Not everyone has the patience to wait that long instead of playing honestly.

As such it isn't surprising at all there is a market for these paid runs because they do address a certain issue too. It's become a very exclusive experience.

Adremal

1) One can get to 3600 CP without ever setting foot in a dungeon. In fact, some of the fastest ways to get CP fast do not involve instances at all (with notable exceptions, BRP and such, not sure whether that still applies as I've heard the XP gain there was nerfed but the OL grindspots haven't been nerfed).
Moreover, since there are only so many passives and star nodes to allocate points in, having lots of CPs will give you versatility but won't raise the the facto hard cap of the power CPs provide;

2) People who buy carry runs typically do so because they want a title/personality/skin but don't want to actually play the content, so I have a hard time picturing someone who bought a carry trying to PUG such content, which leads to point 3;

3) People who want to play the vet trial content should join guilds. There are plenty of guilds who offer both progression runs and even free carry runs for their members. Which makes trying to PUG vet trials (and even some normal ones) an exercise in masochism.

P.s. as to people asking gold to help with non-trifecta vet dungeons, or much easier stuff such as world bosses - and this is the first instance in which I hear of such a thing, even those who ask for money in exchange for WW/Vamp bite makes more sense, at least they're on a week cooldown - the solution is to just ignore them. They're there to take advantage of players, mostly newbies. In my eyes they're no different than those who spam the zone chat with "WTB <materials> for <price well below their current market prices>".