The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
A response on communications
furiouslog
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INTRODUCTION
With some of the recent activity on social media and the PVP announcement, I wanted to take some time to more thoroughly answer a question that @ZOS_GinaBruno posed in Twitter:
Twitter does not really allow for the textual space required to answer the question, so I wanted to take a crack at it.
Let’s postulate a few things:
Okay, so with that in mind, here’s my personal advice, boiled down to two simple keywords with a whole lot of further explanation:
EMPATHY
Have empathy for your consumers, and communicate with them while keeping that empathy top of mind. A lot of player complaints that come back to ZOS come from a place of frustration, which usually falls into one of the following categories:
As such, an important feature of being able to communicate with empathy is also being able to clearly articulate ZOS’s approach towards the player role in the game. You’d need to start by aggregating the complaints, and then asking why they are possibly so angry about it. Consider factors like: are they paying money? What’s the opportunity cost of that purchase? How much time do they have, and how does that relate to our time-based objectives for players? Are they getting appropriate value for their purchase, given their in-game interests and focus?
Another factor to consider with respect to developing empathy is this: everyone who is issuing formal communications to the player base should be seasoned players of the game. They should inherently know what the player experience feels like, inclusive of all content and on a real and active set of servers. You should be paying your community managers to play the game well enough and for long enough that they have actually experienced what the typical player sees in the game. I’ve seen some of the community folks streaming, and then being surprised or annoyed at some of the issues or design decisions implemented in game, and then they express themselves in real time at how annoying or challenging that is. I’m not saying that they should announce their real identities in game either – they just need to see what it’s like to play as someone coming in and trying to clear content.
AUTHENTICITY
Why is authenticity important? It goes straight to your collective credibility within the player community. Without authenticity, people will cynically dismiss what you say with completely callous disregard, and you don’t want that to happen.
So what does it mean to be authentic? Authenticity derives from the communication characteristics of responsiveness and transparency, as well as the dimensions of trust: competency, integrity, and benevolence. Let’s parse those out:
Is ZOS perceived as a trustworthy company?
How do consumers perceive ZOS’s communications?
All of these factors lead to how authentic an organization is perceived to be. Note that this is perception – not necessarily reality. But I think you can parse out what consumer opinions are out there from various social media outlets, and draw your own conclusions. And if it’s still uncertain, tack some questions on to your marketing surveys. I’m sure you’ll be able to get the appropriate feedback.
I think an important part of building that authenticity is to establish and share your baseline for what you are trying to achieve. What is ZOS’s mission statement or corporate goal with respect to ESO? Is it to keep the lights on? Grow? Maintain? Further develop the IP? Make more ESO swag? I also think that a part of that is to articulate clearly what your intended experience looks like, e.g. “ESO is a game designed to take a player X months to achieve X, and Y months to achieve Y, or what have you. In other words, what is the intended life cycle for a player in this game?
If you have that baseline understanding that is shared with the community, all communications that come after it contains that context, and then it is easier to build those other things as long as you also include that empathy factor.
On competency: Gina’s note seems to say that sharing “no new news” for features in updates ends up frustrating people. Not sharing it also frustrates people, but it further makes them think that it dropped off the radar entirely. Many companies who share planning timelines with their customers run into this issue. I presume you have a project manager or planner on staff who is watching tasks and resources and balancing them. There are always uncertainties that hit these timelines, many of them are external factors. For example, in his EOY letter, Rich said that you guys had problems getting new server hardware from suppliers. I didn’t even know that you were ordering new hardware. Telling us that you are doing that, putting a timeline on it with a stretch goal, a most likely goal, and a slip goal would have been the way to go for that, with updates. Extend that idea to all of the issues you currently manage – make a list, put the range of dates to completion on it, and just keep that updated with change logs to provide context. And make it easy to find on the website, too. If the landscape changes, and things need to be reprioritized, most reasonable people will accept and appreciate that, even if they are not happy about it. But at least they’d also know that ZOS was not happy about it either.
On transparency: I think this is one of ZOS’s serious failings, and it has to do with how decisions that were made which angered people were given no explanation. Where I see this done relatively well is In combat design changes – developer notes often accompany the changes where it’s known that it will possible be controversial. Other changes that increase time gates, fix exploits, or accessibility to gear and such are given no explanation, provide little to no detail, or are sometimes not even included in the patch notes. These need to have an explanation, otherwise it encourages speculation and conspiracies, which are then shut down for discussion due to forum rules, and that routinely kills ZOS’s authenticity. You will, at times, do something that angers people, don’t explain why, and then disallow any discussion from taking place. That’s not good.
On responsiveness: The recent Lambert stream was a big hiccup, and it did not get a response for some time. It could have used an immediate “Terri’s opinion does not in any way reflect the perspectives of ZOS, we recognize that PVP players have been asking for changes to improve Cyrodiil performance for a long time, and we are continuing to dedicate time and money to close those performance gaps. Also she was just kidding around with the people in chat.” Saying nothing after that makes it look like you all think what she said.
CONCLUSIONS
Wrapping this up, I can provide additional examples of ZOS communications and how I personally felt about them, but I don’t think it will help. I think that if you objectively look inward to determine if you have done a good enough job at developing consumer empathy and applying that empathetic viewpoint in improving your authenticity, you’ll know most of what needs to be done. FWIW, I think in the past year you guys have done a lot better, and have even made some QOL changes that really went a long way to show that you listened to your consumers. If anything, you might have done more to take credit for that by saying “you guys have complained a lot about this and we heard you, and we have done X Y Z to fix it”. So please keep that trend upwards going, and also please acknowledge that if you are all really serious about communications, you still have a ways to go.
FOLLLOW UP
I wanted to include this in the OP, because it touches on a few issues I didn't really cover, one of which is the communication outlet, which is a sticking point for forum users:
I think that stuff like this is an evergreen process, where you keep learning and feeding back into your system so that things improve. At some point, you get to a point where your systems address all of the stuff you intended to address, and then maybe you freeze it and declare victory. Gina and her colleagues are not going to just stop where they are at on the basis of the Twitter feedback that they received, particularly since the conversation is limited to a certain number of characters, but also because they are not yet at the point of declaring victory. They have been staffing more community positions, so they are probably still figuring out how to best manage and utilize those resources, so they are still at the front end of revamping their communications approach. I'm pretty sure you'll get heard.
Also to the folks who think Gina should respond here, give her a chance, it's the weekend and she deserves time off like anyone else. I don't personally want or need a response anyway, but I do hope that she reads it, because I thought about it for a while and I posted it with the full intention of trying to be helpful. FWIW, I linked to this thread on that Twitter thread, and she responded straight away and thanked me for taking the time. But it's weird to me that there is no acknowledgement on the forum itself, which could possibly be a function of policy and roles.
That does go towards how our feedback is collectively managed and addressed, though. The housing forum guys who posted later in this thread clearly feel unheard - a lot of people provide other sorts of feedback that is so common that it's ubiquitous (e.g. overland difficulty, dark convergence set). Players who provide feedback would like to know if they were heard or not - they took personal time to express a preference - it would benefit ZOS to let them know that they were at least heard even if there is no intention of implementing their ideas.
I think there are three "list" types of information that ought to be organized and managed, which would also help with this concept of being heard:
I think that covers most of what players care about?
The thing about this level of transparency is that it's on us as players to behave maturely when we don't get what we want. I see some people get obsessed over not getting what they want and injecting toxicity into all forum and social interactions in response to denial - that would need to stop, because it teaches ZOS that when they are great about transparency it's still a losing proposition. What helps in mitigating that obsessive behavior is clearly explaining ZOS's decision criteria - it's a lot harder to rail against something if there is a good rationale behind it. I'm sure that ZOS would try to make everyone happy if it were possible, but they can't - they have limitations. Gina pointed out in her Twitter conversation that if the real answer to a player concern is that ZOS is trying to monetize something, you have to make a decision between telling the truth, which sucks (as Gina said), or sounding evasive and therefore inauthentic. I've vote for authenticity every time, but I don't have a problem with the fact that ZOS is a for-profit organization. The fact that all crown purchases are time convenience or cosmetic things is really excellent. I don't have to buy anything apart from new content, which represents an investment and ought to be paid for. Players who want to be handed everything for free can not be reasoned with anyway, it's not a reasonable response, and these people will only get more angry if they are presented with an evasive response, but the reasonable player base will also maddeningly roll their eyes. Better to earn the respect of some of the base rather than none of it.
So, what I'd suggest that ZOS do is say why they can't do the things that are going to make some of these engaged players happy, and hope that those explanations are accepted. It's not our business or role to prioritize ZOS's management of resources, revenue streams, calendars, etc - we need to accept their constraints and trust that they are a given, and also react with a more accepting tone when they have to re-prioritize big fixing or feature implementation instead of complaining about it. If they tell us the truth, we need to accept it. It's not on us to solve or manage their problems. We just need to express them, but we are also deserving of a response when we do. If they did that, and the information was out there, it would result in far fewer complaint/suggestion threads - and this forum would take on a much more positive tone because the lists and roadmap would become the lightning rod to absorb complaints. Maybe we'd even get more original content contributed instead of rehashing the same issues over and over.
I can tell you, the two things ZOS implemented in the past two years that really made me happy as a subscriber were the sticker book, and adjusting the probability of loot tables to be contingent on a player's item collection. If I had known that they were thinking about that, or even acknowledging it as an issue that somehow needed to be addressed, I would not have posted near as much about those issues as I did, if at all.
[edited for name in thread title]
Edited by furiouslog on January 19, 2022 3:59PM With some of the recent activity on social media and the PVP announcement, I wanted to take some time to more thoroughly answer a question that @ZOS_GinaBruno posed in Twitter:
Twitter does not really allow for the textual space required to answer the question, so I wanted to take a crack at it.
Let’s postulate a few things:
- It will never be possible for ZOS to make all of their consumers happy at the same time, because sub-populations of them have different if not divergent interests and priorities within the game.
- ZOS is running a business, and will have some internal priorities and strategies that will never get shared with the community because of their sensitivity.
- ZOS wants to develop a policy for communications and product development that puts their consumers at the center – in other words, run a customer-focused organization that strives to understand their consumers in order to reliably and reasonably meet their requirements.
- The consumers’ time and experiences in the game come at the opportunity cost of other fun or important activities, and are therefore inherently valuable to them.
Okay, so with that in mind, here’s my personal advice, boiled down to two simple keywords with a whole lot of further explanation:
EMPATHY
Have empathy for your consumers, and communicate with them while keeping that empathy top of mind. A lot of player complaints that come back to ZOS come from a place of frustration, which usually falls into one of the following categories:
- Frustration with game performance: e.g. a player was unable to achieve in game goals due to technical performance in Cyrodiil and/or trials. The frustration comes from a sense of the player’s time being wasted because a bug or some technical problem undermines their ability to play, progress, or win.
- Frustration with perceived unfairness: e.g. the CP retooling and “loss” of CP value for players who had already achieved a certain level of XP in the game, the perfected Maelstrom weapon decision. In these cases, the player thinks that the value of the time that they already spent in the game is being negated due to a design decision.
- Frustration with the accessibility to content of interest: e.g. the recent Battlegrounds queuing design decisions, “power gaps” that exclude players who can not seem to meet in game performance benchmarks necessary to clear content, accusations of P2W due to pricing of crown store/chapter expansions, complaints about apex mount costs and scarcity. In these cases, the player is frustrated that they don’t get stuff they want either because it costs money, or the game is not designed in a way to help improve them to get where they want to be.
As such, an important feature of being able to communicate with empathy is also being able to clearly articulate ZOS’s approach towards the player role in the game. You’d need to start by aggregating the complaints, and then asking why they are possibly so angry about it. Consider factors like: are they paying money? What’s the opportunity cost of that purchase? How much time do they have, and how does that relate to our time-based objectives for players? Are they getting appropriate value for their purchase, given their in-game interests and focus?
Another factor to consider with respect to developing empathy is this: everyone who is issuing formal communications to the player base should be seasoned players of the game. They should inherently know what the player experience feels like, inclusive of all content and on a real and active set of servers. You should be paying your community managers to play the game well enough and for long enough that they have actually experienced what the typical player sees in the game. I’ve seen some of the community folks streaming, and then being surprised or annoyed at some of the issues or design decisions implemented in game, and then they express themselves in real time at how annoying or challenging that is. I’m not saying that they should announce their real identities in game either – they just need to see what it’s like to play as someone coming in and trying to clear content.
AUTHENTICITY
Why is authenticity important? It goes straight to your collective credibility within the player community. Without authenticity, people will cynically dismiss what you say with completely callous disregard, and you don’t want that to happen.
So what does it mean to be authentic? Authenticity derives from the communication characteristics of responsiveness and transparency, as well as the dimensions of trust: competency, integrity, and benevolence. Let’s parse those out:
Is ZOS perceived as a trustworthy company?
- Benevolence: Do ZOS’s consumers think that ZOS cares about them? Will ZOS make decisions that are in the consumer’s best interest?
- Competency: Do ZOS’s consumers think that ZOS will reliably perform in a manner that is expected or promised?
- Integrity: Do ZOS’s consumers think that ZOS is honest and forthcoming in their communications, such that they will uphold their promises and commitments?
How do consumers perceive ZOS’s communications?
- Responsiveness: Does ZOS issue communications in a timely and relevant fashion?
- Transparency: Does ZOS share relevant internal information regarding policies and decisions in communications to their consumers?
All of these factors lead to how authentic an organization is perceived to be. Note that this is perception – not necessarily reality. But I think you can parse out what consumer opinions are out there from various social media outlets, and draw your own conclusions. And if it’s still uncertain, tack some questions on to your marketing surveys. I’m sure you’ll be able to get the appropriate feedback.
I think an important part of building that authenticity is to establish and share your baseline for what you are trying to achieve. What is ZOS’s mission statement or corporate goal with respect to ESO? Is it to keep the lights on? Grow? Maintain? Further develop the IP? Make more ESO swag? I also think that a part of that is to articulate clearly what your intended experience looks like, e.g. “ESO is a game designed to take a player X months to achieve X, and Y months to achieve Y, or what have you. In other words, what is the intended life cycle for a player in this game?
If you have that baseline understanding that is shared with the community, all communications that come after it contains that context, and then it is easier to build those other things as long as you also include that empathy factor.
On competency: Gina’s note seems to say that sharing “no new news” for features in updates ends up frustrating people. Not sharing it also frustrates people, but it further makes them think that it dropped off the radar entirely. Many companies who share planning timelines with their customers run into this issue. I presume you have a project manager or planner on staff who is watching tasks and resources and balancing them. There are always uncertainties that hit these timelines, many of them are external factors. For example, in his EOY letter, Rich said that you guys had problems getting new server hardware from suppliers. I didn’t even know that you were ordering new hardware. Telling us that you are doing that, putting a timeline on it with a stretch goal, a most likely goal, and a slip goal would have been the way to go for that, with updates. Extend that idea to all of the issues you currently manage – make a list, put the range of dates to completion on it, and just keep that updated with change logs to provide context. And make it easy to find on the website, too. If the landscape changes, and things need to be reprioritized, most reasonable people will accept and appreciate that, even if they are not happy about it. But at least they’d also know that ZOS was not happy about it either.
On transparency: I think this is one of ZOS’s serious failings, and it has to do with how decisions that were made which angered people were given no explanation. Where I see this done relatively well is In combat design changes – developer notes often accompany the changes where it’s known that it will possible be controversial. Other changes that increase time gates, fix exploits, or accessibility to gear and such are given no explanation, provide little to no detail, or are sometimes not even included in the patch notes. These need to have an explanation, otherwise it encourages speculation and conspiracies, which are then shut down for discussion due to forum rules, and that routinely kills ZOS’s authenticity. You will, at times, do something that angers people, don’t explain why, and then disallow any discussion from taking place. That’s not good.
On responsiveness: The recent Lambert stream was a big hiccup, and it did not get a response for some time. It could have used an immediate “Terri’s opinion does not in any way reflect the perspectives of ZOS, we recognize that PVP players have been asking for changes to improve Cyrodiil performance for a long time, and we are continuing to dedicate time and money to close those performance gaps. Also she was just kidding around with the people in chat.” Saying nothing after that makes it look like you all think what she said.
CONCLUSIONS
Wrapping this up, I can provide additional examples of ZOS communications and how I personally felt about them, but I don’t think it will help. I think that if you objectively look inward to determine if you have done a good enough job at developing consumer empathy and applying that empathetic viewpoint in improving your authenticity, you’ll know most of what needs to be done. FWIW, I think in the past year you guys have done a lot better, and have even made some QOL changes that really went a long way to show that you listened to your consumers. If anything, you might have done more to take credit for that by saying “you guys have complained a lot about this and we heard you, and we have done X Y Z to fix it”. So please keep that trend upwards going, and also please acknowledge that if you are all really serious about communications, you still have a ways to go.
FOLLLOW UP
I wanted to include this in the OP, because it touches on a few issues I didn't really cover, one of which is the communication outlet, which is a sticking point for forum users:
VaranisArano wrote: »
I feel like I'm sitting here on the forums, adding my two cents long after the conversation is over.
I think that stuff like this is an evergreen process, where you keep learning and feeding back into your system so that things improve. At some point, you get to a point where your systems address all of the stuff you intended to address, and then maybe you freeze it and declare victory. Gina and her colleagues are not going to just stop where they are at on the basis of the Twitter feedback that they received, particularly since the conversation is limited to a certain number of characters, but also because they are not yet at the point of declaring victory. They have been staffing more community positions, so they are probably still figuring out how to best manage and utilize those resources, so they are still at the front end of revamping their communications approach. I'm pretty sure you'll get heard.
Also to the folks who think Gina should respond here, give her a chance, it's the weekend and she deserves time off like anyone else. I don't personally want or need a response anyway, but I do hope that she reads it, because I thought about it for a while and I posted it with the full intention of trying to be helpful. FWIW, I linked to this thread on that Twitter thread, and she responded straight away and thanked me for taking the time. But it's weird to me that there is no acknowledgement on the forum itself, which could possibly be a function of policy and roles.
That does go towards how our feedback is collectively managed and addressed, though. The housing forum guys who posted later in this thread clearly feel unheard - a lot of people provide other sorts of feedback that is so common that it's ubiquitous (e.g. overland difficulty, dark convergence set). Players who provide feedback would like to know if they were heard or not - they took personal time to express a preference - it would benefit ZOS to let them know that they were at least heard even if there is no intention of implementing their ideas.
I think there are three "list" types of information that ought to be organized and managed, which would also help with this concept of being heard:
- Roadmap: containing all current initiatives and tasks that are planned or in progress, with timelines for completion that include a date or range of dates.
- Bugs: Bugs that were reported, with line item status updates as so : Reported, Investigating, Investigated and not a bug, Investigating and is a bug but not yet slotted to be fixed, Bug is being fixed (moved to roadmap), Bug is fixed.
- Suggestions: Player feedback that is recorded, with line item status updates like so: Suggestion heard, Suggestion being evaluated, Suggestion will not be addressed (and why), Suggestion being addressed (moved to roadmap), Suggestion implemented.
I think that covers most of what players care about?
The thing about this level of transparency is that it's on us as players to behave maturely when we don't get what we want. I see some people get obsessed over not getting what they want and injecting toxicity into all forum and social interactions in response to denial - that would need to stop, because it teaches ZOS that when they are great about transparency it's still a losing proposition. What helps in mitigating that obsessive behavior is clearly explaining ZOS's decision criteria - it's a lot harder to rail against something if there is a good rationale behind it. I'm sure that ZOS would try to make everyone happy if it were possible, but they can't - they have limitations. Gina pointed out in her Twitter conversation that if the real answer to a player concern is that ZOS is trying to monetize something, you have to make a decision between telling the truth, which sucks (as Gina said), or sounding evasive and therefore inauthentic. I've vote for authenticity every time, but I don't have a problem with the fact that ZOS is a for-profit organization. The fact that all crown purchases are time convenience or cosmetic things is really excellent. I don't have to buy anything apart from new content, which represents an investment and ought to be paid for. Players who want to be handed everything for free can not be reasoned with anyway, it's not a reasonable response, and these people will only get more angry if they are presented with an evasive response, but the reasonable player base will also maddeningly roll their eyes. Better to earn the respect of some of the base rather than none of it.
So, what I'd suggest that ZOS do is say why they can't do the things that are going to make some of these engaged players happy, and hope that those explanations are accepted. It's not our business or role to prioritize ZOS's management of resources, revenue streams, calendars, etc - we need to accept their constraints and trust that they are a given, and also react with a more accepting tone when they have to re-prioritize big fixing or feature implementation instead of complaining about it. If they tell us the truth, we need to accept it. It's not on us to solve or manage their problems. We just need to express them, but we are also deserving of a response when we do. If they did that, and the information was out there, it would result in far fewer complaint/suggestion threads - and this forum would take on a much more positive tone because the lists and roadmap would become the lightning rod to absorb complaints. Maybe we'd even get more original content contributed instead of rehashing the same issues over and over.
I can tell you, the two things ZOS implemented in the past two years that really made me happy as a subscriber were the sticker book, and adjusting the probability of loot tables to be contingent on a player's item collection. If I had known that they were thinking about that, or even acknowledging it as an issue that somehow needed to be addressed, I would not have posted near as much about those issues as I did, if at all.
[edited for name in thread title]
103
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Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think for starters, if you (ZOS) really want to work on communication (which you have admitted in the past is lacking, so this isn't a matter of "well we see people complain about it all the time"), you need to stop limiting important announcements and updates to Twitter or Facebook or whatever other social media. You NEED to start posting updates and announcements here on the forums first and foremost, and THEN post them to other social media.
You guys either don't realize or simply disregard the fact that many of your players DO NOT USE social media like Twitter. I'm one of them. Thus, many people are unawares of things you've posted in regards to until they hear it secondhand from others, like the OP of this very thread. If you want feedback on communication, why would you not make this more visible by posting and pinning a thread about it here? Why only ask on Twitter, where many of your players won't see the question to answer it in the first place?
Start posting updates, answers, and announcements HERE before anywhere else, and THEN make posts in other areas. This is ESO's official forum, but we often get less information in regards to problems than other sites.
Also, a big part of communication is not leaving your community in the dark about big issues and not acknowledging them to some degree. Matt admitted that it's taken too long for you guys to make any official post about PvP problems. Don't wait literal YEARS before you give us updates on things. Most of us understand you can't give detailed information or go in-depth about a lot of things, but that's not what we're asking for. What we're wanting is what we've been getting from Kevin a lot since he came on; just acknowledgement on things, and a "Yes this is a thing but we're looking into it" or just...something to let us know you're actually hearing us. When all we get is silence for months and months, it just leads to growing resentment and the conspiracy theories you had to make a rule against.
And in that vein, you really need to start acknowledging major bugs and other issues that people post in the PTS during test cycles. I've seen it happen too many times that a problem or imbalance has been brought up numerous times in the PTS and get no acknowledgement, make it to live, and then when it's reported the response be "Oh thanks for letting us know about this we're looking into it now". No, you need to look into these things when we TELL you about them, not several weeks later and then act like you were never made aware of whatever the issue is. So many people have stopped using the PTS and testing things (including myself) because it just feels like our feedback and bug reports are completely ignored.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambertEdited by Arunei on January 16, 2022 12:46PMCharacter List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!91 -
Aardappelboom✭✭✭✭I think for starters, if you (ZOS) really want to work on communication (which you have admitted in the past is lacking, so this isn't a matter of "well we see people complain about it all the time"), you need to stop limiting important announcements and updates to Twitter or Facebook or whatever other social media. You NEED to start posting updates and announcements here on the forums first and foremost, and THEN post them to other social media.
You guys either don't realize or simply disregard the fact that many of your players DO NOT USE social media like Twitter. I'm one of them. Thus, many people are unawares of things you've posted in regards to until they hear it secondhand from others, like the OP of this very thread. If you want feedback on communication, why would you not make this more visible by posting and pinning a thread about it here? Why only ask on Twitter, where many of your players won't see the question to answer it in the first place?
Start posting updates, answers, and announcements HERE before anywhere else, and THEN make posts in other areas. This is ESO's official forum, but we often get less information in regards to problems than other sites.
Also, a big part of communication is not leaving your community in the dark about big issues and not acknowledging them to some degree. Matt admitted that it's taken too long for you guys to make any official post about PvP problems. Don't wait literal YEARS before you give us updates on things. Most of us understand you can't give detailed information or go in-depth about a lot of things, but that's not what we're asking for. What we're wanting is what we've been getting from Kevin a lot since he came on; just acknowledgement on things, and a "Yes this is a thing but we're looking into it" or just...something to let us know you're actually hearing us. When all we get is silence for months and months, it just leads to growing resentment and the conspiracy theories you had to make a rule against.
And in that vein, you really need to start acknowledging major bugs and other issues that people post in the PTS during test cycles. I've seen it happen too many times that a problem or imbalance has been brought up numerous times in the PTS and get no acknowledgement, make it to live, and then when it's reported the response be "Oh thanks for letting us know about this we're looking into it now". No, you need to look into these things when we TELL you about them, not several weeks later and then act like you were never made aware of whatever the issue is. So many people have stopped using the PTS and testing things (including myself) because it just feels like our feedback and bug reports are completely ignored.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert
I don't think the forums are the best place either tbh, they should just start a blog with topics related to players, the current website is clearly targeted for marketing also reaching non-players.
This should not be a "sign in only" place. Just a categorized blog with predefined topics (upcoming release bugfixes, polls, combat updates, etc)
As well as a change log, kinda like the guys over at construct: https://www.construct.net/en/make-games/releases
As for bugs they should start communicating on the bugs they are going to fix and get a user voice started to help prioritize them.7 -
_Zathras_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great post. I gave you an Insightful because it's cogent, realistic, and very constructive. Well done.
Seeing as how there are strong roots to the DAoC team, I would like to see a Weekly Grab Bag for communication to their players. Yes, call it something else, but copy/paste what they used to do.
Essentially it's a Q&A at the end of every week. The players submit questions/concerns, and they choose 10 of them to be answered. Every. Week.
Transparency. Reliability. Responsiveness.
If they did something like that, it would go a very long way.14 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@furiouslog
Excellent post.
We need more communication. We are millions of customers if one looks at numbers, somehow the present status quo in-company responses do not represent that, community awards are not actual representation.
I would like to see a daily response in what is/should be the heart of the discussions i.e very involved interaction with the the the very unused BUGS forum.8 -
Einstein_✭✭✭The Author of this disscussion already said alot and good things. So i am just add something.
1. I think it would be possible to give the community more indepth information about the the performance issues and possible fixes you are doing. I think you could do that in a "teD-talk style", where you give the comminty a better understanding why its so hard to be fixed and why you cant just throw new hardwear onto a proplem and its fixed. It doesnt not need to contain "company secrets" or something, but try to help the community to understand.
2. When its about balancing in Pve or PvP, its IMPOSSIBLE and NOT DEMANDED that the Devs have the game knowlage to do so.
But the knowlage is out there and players are willing to share this with you. I dont mean with that you should ask the forums for balancing questions, they will be always biased and are propaply not the best input for something like this.
But you can work together with verry verry experianced players out of PvE and PvP.
alot of this ppl look 30 min into patchnotes and already know what going to be to overpowered or to weak. You could start with content Creators and maybe even pay them in one way or another. (NefaS, alchast, malcolm...and many more).
1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I found that thread of Gina's on communication several days later when someone complained about it on the forums.
As someone who's not on Twitter, it rather drove home the limitations of using one platform to talk about communication...
Not on Twitter? You'll miss that conversation, even though it's ESO's communication manager asking how to better communicate with players like you.
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream? You'll miss out on knowing that the Devs maybe found that PVP problem and have to do serious recoding, that bards aren't likely, that the Devs have certain concerns about players abusing accessibility options, Rich's thoughts on the Battlegrounds queue situation, and so much more. (The recent PVP update confirms what Rich was already talking about on stream in December.) If you find out anything, it's probably secondhand from someone who does. (Like I did - secondhand, on an unrelated forums thread.)
Don't watch ESO Live? There are no transcripts, so if you don't fast-forward through a bunch of fluff to get to the meaty topics, you'll have no idea what's being said unless, again, it's secondhand from someone who does.
As someone who basically reads the website and forums, and who only finds out the information from Twitter/Rich's Stream/ESO Live secondhand unless someone posts a link to something interesting, I really wish the communications team made a greater effort to have cross-platform communcations.
My suggestions:
Twitter: if there's an announcement or a question answered on Twitter, it's a good idea to check the forums for a similar topic and post the announcement/answer here too.
ESO Live: For me, transcripts would help a lot. It's not an accessibility thing for me (though for some, it might be very helpful). Rather, I prefer to read text than watch a long video, and its much easier for me to reference the contents later.
Streams: I don't want Rich muzzled, but if it's official enough for him to talk about ongoing or future developments on his stream, then those should be official enough for the Communications teams to be able to comment about them on the forums or warrant an update.Edited by VaranisArano on January 16, 2022 2:59PM49 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »On competency: Gina’s note seems to say that sharing “no new news” for features in updates ends up frustrating people. Not sharing it also frustrates people, but it further makes them think that it dropped off the radar entirely. Many companies who share planning timelines with their customers run into this issue. I presume you have a project manager or planner on staff who is watching tasks and resources and balancing them. There are always uncertainties that hit these timelines, many of them are external factors. For example, in his EOY letter, Rich said that you guys had problems getting new server hardware from suppliers. I didn’t even know that you were ordering new hardware. Telling us that you are doing that, putting a timeline on it with a stretch goal, a most likely goal, and a slip goal would have been the way to go for that, with updates. Extend that idea to all of the issues you currently manage – make a list, put the range of dates to completion on it, and just keep that updated with change logs to provide context. And make it easy to find on the website, too. If the landscape changes, and things need to be reprioritized, most reasonable people will accept and appreciate that, even if they are not happy about it. But at least they’d also know that ZOS was not happy about it either.
On transparency: I think this is one of ZOS’s serious failings, and it has to do with how decisions that were made which angered people were given no explanation. Where I see this done relatively well is In combat design changes – developer notes often accompany the changes where it’s known that it will possible be controversial. Other changes that increase time gates, fix exploits, or accessibility to gear and such are given no explanation, provide little to no detail, or are sometimes not even included in the patch notes. These need to have an explanation, otherwise it encourages speculation and conspiracies, which are then shut down for discussion due to forum rules, and that routinely kills ZOS’s authenticity. You will, at times, do something that angers people, don’t explain why, and then disallow any discussion from taking place. That’s not good.
While I agree with this, this is nothing that has not been shared with ZOS in the past, in one way or another. I question whether it is worth sharing it, at this point.
I mean, it is nice that she asked, but it isn't like she should be unaware of what the community has said. Maybe she was just looking for new ideas that had not been shared before. This may be why it was asked on Twitter rather than on the forum. The forum has spoken on this subject, repeatedly, going back years. Still... I also replied to her Twitter on the forum.
Edited by Elsonso on January 16, 2022 3:25PM2 -
HawkFest✭✭✭
I wholeheartedly agree with this ! Personally I don't want anything to do with Twitter ; I use Facebook only to communicate with close friends and family, or post serious matters (social/political) under my real name and media groups, and I don't want to expose that kind of and intimate leisure stuff that's irrelevant to such activity (to the point that it's not even on my phone).I think for starters, if you (ZOS) really want to work on communication (which you have admitted in the past is lacking, so this isn't a matter of "well we see people complain about it all the time"), you need to stop limiting important announcements and updates to Twitter or Facebook or whatever other social media. You NEED to start posting updates and announcements here on the forums first and foremost, and THEN post them to other social media.
Either in the Forum, or better yet under a specific Blog/section of this Web site. I don't like being obliged to run around the Web on 3rd party platform that I don't want to use (twitch being the exception in regard to loots!), just to be aware of important announcements / game events etc.
15 -
Artanisul✭✭✭✭I just want to echo the fact that Social Media is not going to cut it for communication. For one, we arent family....I dont look for likes on a gaming forum, I look for information. I know I am not alone.
Social Media is for being social, hence the name. A forum is for discussion on whatever the forum is about. This happens to be a game forum, so talking about the game should be here not on twitter......31 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Not on Twitter?
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream?
Don't watch ESO Live?
etc
Yeah, I basically only read the forum. (99% of the time, just this section of it).
My bookmark goes here. If I want to check out a News post on the website (due to seeing something about it here), I use the links here to get there.
(Star Trek Online is another one where their 'communication' crew slowly switched to posting important news/etc to their Twitter and not on their "official forums." Which is just crazy.)19 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Not on Twitter?
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream?
Don't watch ESO Live?
etc
Yeah, I basically only read the forum. (99% of the time, just this section of it).
My bookmark goes here. If I want to check out a News post on the website (due to seeing something about it here), I use the links here to get there.
(Star Trek Online is another one where their 'communication' crew slowly switched to posting important news/etc to their Twitter and not on their "official forums." Which is just crazy.)
Makes two of us. I don't touch "social media" period. Unfortunately, with bethsoft going entirely to discord, it seems like ZOS has a bad example there.... They really should be posting on the official website - @_Zathras_'s DAoC example above, taking some questions to answer once a week, isn't a bad idea at all.15 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Not on Twitter?
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream?
Don't watch ESO Live?
etc
Yeah, I basically only read the forum. (99% of the time, just this section of it).
My bookmark goes here. If I want to check out a News post on the website (due to seeing something about it here), I use the links here to get there.
(Star Trek Online is another one where their 'communication' crew slowly switched to posting important news/etc to their Twitter and not on their "official forums." Which is just crazy.)
Makes two of us. I don't touch "social media" period. Unfortunately, with bethsoft going entirely to discord, it seems like ZOS has a bad example there.... They really should be posting on the official website - @_Zathras_'s DAoC example above, taking some questions to answer once a week, isn't a bad idea at all.
Same boat, official website or forums to find communication from ZOS. Twitter, fb, & others in kind I would never join.17 -
Ghanima_Atreides✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Not on Twitter?
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream?
Don't watch ESO Live?
etc
Yeah, I basically only read the forum. (99% of the time, just this section of it).
My bookmark goes here. If I want to check out a News post on the website (due to seeing something about it here), I use the links here to get there.
(Star Trek Online is another one where their 'communication' crew slowly switched to posting important news/etc to their Twitter and not on their "official forums." Which is just crazy.)
Makes two of us. I don't touch "social media" period. Unfortunately, with bethsoft going entirely to discord, it seems like ZOS has a bad example there.... They really should be posting on the official website - @_Zathras_'s DAoC example above, taking some questions to answer once a week, isn't a bad idea at all.
Same. I don't use Twitter, I am not interested in using it, ditto for Twitch etc. videos that are 90% someone being "funny" and 10% actual relevant information, but you have to sit through the whole thing to find it. I'd much rather just have a post or an article containing important news posted here or on the official site, which I can just access and read at my leisure.[The Beauty of Tamriel] My collection of ESO screenshots
Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock.18 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about more feedback in the Housing forum, where we don't see any info from the housing/furnishings team, and no reaction to our discussions? We only get feedback on houses players create, which is fine, but does not address our issues in the game regarding housing.[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter12 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭For me communication means being honest and telling the truth.
If the claim of "we're working on it" is supposed to mean things are being worked on. Not four years plus down the road announcing a plan to start working on it and tell customers it's going to take more time.
In my opinion this forum is where any game announcements or discussions should take place. That's why this forum exists. Social media is only for disseminating misinformation. So many of us will never read anything on those platforms because we refuse to participate on those platforms.
Edited by EdmondDontes on January 16, 2022 4:54PM12 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
They could make a Blog section or some kind of section like that yeah, but I meant posting the updates or announcements and stuff here on the actual forums, where a lot of us come to look for discussion or to ask questions already. I didn't mean posting stuff like that on the website itself, since while I come to the forums often enough, I almost never visit the actual website.Aardappelboom wrote: »I think for starters, if you (ZOS) really want to work on communication (which you have admitted in the past is lacking, so this isn't a matter of "well we see people complain about it all the time"), you need to stop limiting important announcements and updates to Twitter or Facebook or whatever other social media. You NEED to start posting updates and announcements here on the forums first and foremost, and THEN post them to other social media.
You guys either don't realize or simply disregard the fact that many of your players DO NOT USE social media like Twitter. I'm one of them. Thus, many people are unawares of things you've posted in regards to until they hear it secondhand from others, like the OP of this very thread. If you want feedback on communication, why would you not make this more visible by posting and pinning a thread about it here? Why only ask on Twitter, where many of your players won't see the question to answer it in the first place?
Start posting updates, answers, and announcements HERE before anywhere else, and THEN make posts in other areas. This is ESO's official forum, but we often get less information in regards to problems than other sites.
Also, a big part of communication is not leaving your community in the dark about big issues and not acknowledging them to some degree. Matt admitted that it's taken too long for you guys to make any official post about PvP problems. Don't wait literal YEARS before you give us updates on things. Most of us understand you can't give detailed information or go in-depth about a lot of things, but that's not what we're asking for. What we're wanting is what we've been getting from Kevin a lot since he came on; just acknowledgement on things, and a "Yes this is a thing but we're looking into it" or just...something to let us know you're actually hearing us. When all we get is silence for months and months, it just leads to growing resentment and the conspiracy theories you had to make a rule against.
And in that vein, you really need to start acknowledging major bugs and other issues that people post in the PTS during test cycles. I've seen it happen too many times that a problem or imbalance has been brought up numerous times in the PTS and get no acknowledgement, make it to live, and then when it's reported the response be "Oh thanks for letting us know about this we're looking into it now". No, you need to look into these things when we TELL you about them, not several weeks later and then act like you were never made aware of whatever the issue is. So many people have stopped using the PTS and testing things (including myself) because it just feels like our feedback and bug reports are completely ignored.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert
I don't think the forums are the best place either tbh, they should just start a blog with topics related to players, the current website is clearly targeted for marketing also reaching non-players.
This should not be a "sign in only" place. Just a categorized blog with predefined topics (upcoming release bugfixes, polls, combat updates, etc)
As well as a change log, kinda like the guys over at construct: https://www.construct.net/en/make-games/releases
As for bugs they should start communicating on the bugs they are going to fix and get a user voice started to help prioritize them.Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm as well not using social media - I hate this attempt to steal personal data and sell them - as soon as you put anything on social media you no longer own it and they can do with it what they want - I won't join such a predatory medium in disguise.Edited by Lysette on January 16, 2022 5:31PM8 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
Somehow, somewhere there is an actual discussion forum, is it here? Where is the response from the TPB as promised?
Where is the real interaction that helps the games customers who are are the participants instead of spectapers?Sylvermynx wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Not on Twitter?
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream?
Don't watch ESO Live?
etc
Yeah, I basically only read the forum. (99% of the time, just this section of it).
My bookmark goes here. If I want to check out a News post on the website (due to seeing something about it here), I use the links here to get there.
(Star Trek Online is another one where their 'communication' crew slowly switched to posting important news/etc to their Twitter and not on their "official forums." Which is just crazy.)
Makes two of us. I don't touch "social media" period. Unfortunately, with bethsoft going entirely to discord, it seems like ZOS has a bad example there.... They really should be posting on the official website - @_Zathras_'s DAoC example above, taking some questions to answer once a week, isn't a bad idea at all.
Make that 3
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 16, 2022 5:44PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EdmondDontes wrote: »For me communication means being honest and telling the truth.
If the claim of "we're working on it" is supposed to mean things are being worked on. Not four years plus down the road announcing a plan to start working on it and tell customers it's going to take more time.
In my opinion this forum is where any game announcements or discussions should take place. That's why this forum exists. Social media is only for disseminating misinformation. So many of us will never read anything on those platforms because we refuse to participate on those platforms.
I don't know what viewership they have on those other platforms, admittedly.
I know that they's said the official website gets a lot more views than the forums, though that's usually reserved for big announcements.0 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
Somehow, somewhere there is an actual discussion forum, is it here? Where is the response from the TPB as promised?
Where is the real interaction that helps the games customers who are are the participants instead of spectapers?Sylvermynx wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Not on Twitter?
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream?
Don't watch ESO Live?
etc
Yeah, I basically only read the forum. (99% of the time, just this section of it).
My bookmark goes here. If I want to check out a News post on the website (due to seeing something about it here), I use the links here to get there.
(Star Trek Online is another one where their 'communication' crew slowly switched to posting important news/etc to their Twitter and not on their "official forums." Which is just crazy.)
Makes two of us. I don't touch "social media" period. Unfortunately, with bethsoft going entirely to discord, it seems like ZOS has a bad example there.... They really should be posting on the official website - @_Zathras_'s DAoC example above, taking some questions to answer once a week, isn't a bad idea at all.
Make that 3
Sorry but that post was rather harmed by the forum software
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 16, 2022 5:45PM0 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭Regarding social media: FB and now Twitter don't allow people who don't have an account to see what was posted. I never bothered with looking up ESO news on FB, but was able to check threads on Twitter up until recently. This is not the case anymore. Unless the specific thread is linked elsewhere, I cannot read it.
This forum, OTOH, is accessible to anyone - even those who do not have an account. I understand that Twitter might be a "faster" way to communicate, but it isn't the best way in this case. I, like many others in here, would rather have the communication come from here or a post on the website.
Coincidentally, one of the last threads I was able to read on Twitter was Gina's question about communication. I want to address one particular question she asked regarding which bugs to report.
Gina asked which bugs should be talked about, and my first reaction was to say all of them. I do understand that posting such a list could cause problems, so here is my suggestion: Don't post a list, but have a mod here on the forum acknowledge the bugs existence as soon as possible.
A simple "we know about it" or "thanks for bringing this to our attention" would suffice. I've seen similar posts from @ZOS_Kevin , but not all of the issues brought up are addressed. I understand that he's only one person and can only do so much, but being acknowledged when bringing up problems in game would go a long way with our good will to wait for things to be fixed.11 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don’t think it’s all that complicated.
Simply put two things would be appropriate and welcomed communication for what is happening.
1. Known issues list which would last the known issues, not their status (investigation, fox development, pending date of patch, fixed date of patch. Not a list of threads Zenimax has posted in that requires digging to find something.
2. Bigger issues like performance quarterly report with what is being implemented in the upcoming update, what will be tested on PTS and what some sort of goal is. Probably a little more info.
That’s is basically it.1 -
caindele✭✭EdmondDontes wrote: »For me communication means being honest and telling the truth.
If the claim of "we're working on it" is supposed to mean things are being worked on. Not four years plus down the road announcing a plan to start working on it and tell customers it's going to take more time.
In my opinion this forum is where any game announcements or discussions should take place. That's why this forum exists. Social media is only for disseminating misinformation. So many of us will never read anything on those platforms because we refuse to participate on those platforms.
I think the point Matt was making is that they are working on the rearchitecture of the foundational server code. It took them several years to try everything else to fix the performance issues and haven't been able to get the performance that we want. The decision has to take in both technical feasibility and cost. This won't be a cheap fix and they have to do it without blowing up a live game.
Perhaps Matt could have done a video explaining their plans, but that probably would have received similar responses. It seems to be tougher and tougher to communicate in this world of anonymity. A few people can spread a lot of vitriol, putting the game companies in a damned if you do or damned if you don't situation. After seeing some of the responses even to this update does anyone think it encourages devs or community managers the desire to respond to feedback, to be on social media or to stream while playing the game?0 -
_Zathras_✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »I found that thread of Gina's on communication several days later when someone complained about it on the forums.
As someone who's not on Twitter, it rather drove home the limitations of using one platform to talk about communication...
Not on Twitter? You'll miss that conversation, even though it's ESO's communication manager asking how to better communicate with players like you.
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream? You'll miss out on knowing that the Devs maybe found that PVP problem and have to do serious recoding, that bards aren't likely, that the Devs have certain concerns about players abusing accessibility options, Rich's thoughts on the Battlegrounds queue situation, and so much more. (The recent PVP update confirms what Rich was already talking about on stream in December.) If you find out anything, it's probably secondhand from someone who does. (Like I did - secondhand, on an unrelated forums thread.)
Don't watch ESO Live? There are no transcripts, so if you don't fast-forward through a bunch of fluff to get to the meaty topics, you'll have no idea what's being said unless, again, it's secondhand from someone who does.
As someone who basically reads the website and forums, and who only finds out the information from Twitter/Rich's Stream/ESO Live secondhand unless someone posts a link to something interesting, I really wish the communications team made a greater effort to have cross-platform communcations.
My suggestions:
Twitter: if there's an announcement or a question answered on Twitter, it's a good idea to check the forums for a similar topic and post the announcement/answer here too.
ESO Live: For me, transcripts would help a lot. It's not an accessibility thing for me (though for some, it might be very helpful). Rather, I prefer to read text than watch a long video, and its much easier for me to reference the contents later.
Streams: I don't want Rich muzzled, but if it's official enough for him to talk about ongoing or future developments on his stream, then those should be official enough for the Communications teams to be able to comment about them on the forums or warrant an update.
Essentially all of this.
These are the Official Forums. Anything worth being said should be linked here. All of the above information is not. As mentioned, you either hear about it second hand (if you're lucky) or not at all.
I should not have to be subscribed to multiple social media venues, then have to Follow all the various ESO staff, to get up-to-date and relevant information for this game.
Centralized information that everyone can access as soon as it is posted.
18 -
Artanisul✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I found that thread of Gina's on communication several days later when someone complained about it on the forums.
As someone who's not on Twitter, it rather drove home the limitations of using one platform to talk about communication...
Not on Twitter? You'll miss that conversation, even though it's ESO's communication manager asking how to better communicate with players like you.
Don't watch Rich Lambert's personal stream? You'll miss out on knowing that the Devs maybe found that PVP problem and have to do serious recoding, that bards aren't likely, that the Devs have certain concerns about players abusing accessibility options, Rich's thoughts on the Battlegrounds queue situation, and so much more. (The recent PVP update confirms what Rich was already talking about on stream in December.) If you find out anything, it's probably secondhand from someone who does. (Like I did - secondhand, on an unrelated forums thread.)
Don't watch ESO Live? There are no transcripts, so if you don't fast-forward through a bunch of fluff to get to the meaty topics, you'll have no idea what's being said unless, again, it's secondhand from someone who does.
As someone who basically reads the website and forums, and who only finds out the information from Twitter/Rich's Stream/ESO Live secondhand unless someone posts a link to something interesting, I really wish the communications team made a greater effort to have cross-platform communcations.
My suggestions:
Twitter: if there's an announcement or a question answered on Twitter, it's a good idea to check the forums for a similar topic and post the announcement/answer here too.
ESO Live: For me, transcripts would help a lot. It's not an accessibility thing for me (though for some, it might be very helpful). Rather, I prefer to read text than watch a long video, and its much easier for me to reference the contents later.
Streams: I don't want Rich muzzled, but if it's official enough for him to talk about ongoing or future developments on his stream, then those should be official enough for the Communications teams to be able to comment about them on the forums or warrant an update.
Essentially all of this.
These are the Official Forums. Anything worth being said should be linked here. All of the above information is not. As mentioned, you either hear about it second hand (if you're lucky) or not at all.
I should not have to be subscribed to multiple social media venues, then have to Follow all the various ESO staff, to get up-to-date and relevant information for this game.
Centralized information that everyone can access as soon as it is posted.
After reading down through this thread, I find it hard to believe the question Gina asked was an honest one. I thought I was more alone in my lack of Social Media use. I reached out to various gaming sites and it's overwhelming how universal it is that gamers look to the Forums for info not "Share my Personal Details" sites like Twitter, FB, Instagram etc.9 -
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭We are paying customers and the fact of the matter is that Zos has not been doing their job in this area for a long time and that is unacceptable. [snip] Rinse, wash, repeat. How many times have we been through this now? I've lost count. [snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 16, 2022 7:43PM
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn3 -
Destai✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_Kevin is there any chance you can get Gina to post here on this thread? It’s sad when people put posts like this together with AMAZING feedback and no one says anything. She can be ultra engaged on social media but very eloquent posts like this all too frequently get ignored and it really creates and perpetuates a lot of resentment.furiouslog wrote: »INTRODUCTION
With some of the recent activity on social media and the PVP announcement, I wanted to take some time to more thoroughly answer a question that @ZOS_GinaBruno posed in Twitter:
Twitter does not really allow for the textual space required to answer the question, so I wanted to take a crack at it.
Let’s postulate a few things:- It will never be possible for ZOS to make all of their consumers happy at the same time, because sub-populations of them have different if not divergent interests and priorities within the game.
- ZOS is running a business, and will have some internal priorities and strategies that will never get shared with the community because of their sensitivity.
- ZOS wants to develop a policy for communications and product development that puts their consumers at the center – in other words, run a customer-focused organization that strives to understand their consumers in order to reliably and reasonably meet their requirements.
- The consumers’ time and experiences in the game come at the opportunity cost of other fun or important activities, and are therefore inherently valuable to them.
Okay, so with that in mind, here’s my personal advice, boiled down to two simple keywords with a whole lot of further explanation:
EMPATHY
Have empathy for your consumers, and communicate with them while keeping that empathy top of mind. A lot of player complaints that come back to ZOS come from a place of frustration, which usually falls into one of the following categories:- Frustration with game performance: e.g. a player was unable to achieve in game goals due to technical performance in Cyrodiil and/or trials. The frustration comes from a sense of the player’s time being wasted because a bug or some technical problem undermines their ability to play, progress, or win.
- Frustration with perceived unfairness: e.g. the CP retooling and “loss” of CP value for players who had already achieved a certain level of XP in the game, the perfected Maelstrom weapon decision. In these cases, the player thinks that the value of the time that they already spent in the game is being negated due to a design decision.
- Frustration with the accessibility to content of interest: e.g. the recent Battlegrounds queuing design decisions, “power gaps” that exclude players who can not seem to meet in game performance benchmarks necessary to clear content, accusations of P2W due to pricing of crown store/chapter expansions, complaints about apex mount costs and scarcity. In these cases, the player is frustrated that they don’t get stuff they want either because it costs money, or the game is not designed in a way to help improve them to get where they want to be.
As such, an important feature of being able to communicate with empathy is also being able to clearly articulate ZOS’s approach towards the player role in the game. You’d need to start by aggregating the complaints, and then asking why they are possibly so angry about it. Consider factors like: are they paying money? What’s the opportunity cost of that purchase? How much time do they have, and how does that relate to our time-based objectives for players? Are they getting appropriate value for their purchase, given their in-game interests and focus?
Just as an example, I've posted multiple times on the FOMO frustrations and how ZOS is leaving money on the table. I've tagged multiple ZOS reps on this feedback and not once have they acknowledged it.
Another factor to consider with respect to developing empathy is this: everyone who is issuing formal communications to the player base should be seasoned players of the game. They should inherently know what the player experience feels like, inclusive of all content and on a real and active set of servers. You should be paying your community managers to play the game well enough and for long enough that they have actually experienced what the typical player sees in the game. I’ve seen some of the community folks streaming, and then being surprised or annoyed at some of the issues or design decisions implemented in game, and then they express themselves in real time at how annoying or challenging that is. I’m not saying that they should announce their real identities in game either – they just need to see what it’s like to play as someone coming in and trying to clear content.
AUTHENTICITY
Why is authenticity important? It goes straight to your collective credibility within the player community. Without authenticity, people will cynically dismiss what you say with completely callous disregard, and you don’t want that to happen.
So what does it mean to be authentic? Authenticity derives from the communication characteristics of responsiveness and transparency, as well as the dimensions of trust: competency, integrity, and benevolence. Let’s parse those out:
Is ZOS perceived as a trustworthy company? No. I perceive them and their community management as focused on damage control, marketing, and low-effort updates. Rich and his wife were certainly authentic on their stream, but in no way did it exhibit empathy. The tone is ALWAYS one of "I know better, I'm here to explain" rather than sitting back and letting people give you new perspectives. That's a fundamental culture that needs to change.- Benevolence: Do ZOS’s consumers think that ZOS cares about them? Will ZOS make decisions that are in the consumer’s best interest? I remember when Rich last mentioned the monetization issue and spoke about breaking trust, then lamented how certain items in the crown store were frequently derided, then took no strides to communicating it better. Instead he went on the defensive, thereby creating another fiasco, which finally resulted in Gina posting some Tweet about communication.
- Competency: Do ZOS’s consumers think that ZOS will reliably perform in a manner that is expected or promised? This isn't a bashing statement, but I don't personally feel like there's a satisfactory job done by the community management teams. They do not communicate expectations, especially since they barely communicate. Now, over 7 years into the game's lifecycle, Gina's asking about what communication should look like - on one medium only. That doesn't look competent to me and probably many others, nor does the highly visible delay in responses. I'm sure they're good at their jobs internally, but from a player perspective, I don't feel like they're meeting my needs.
- Integrity: Do ZOS’s consumers think that ZOS is honest and forthcoming in their communications, such that they will uphold their promises and commitments? No, I don't think they're forthcoming and honest. I think they want to present the best possible image of this game and moderate the forums and reddit as such. I do think they're starting to see this look is bad and it paints them as unable to receive criticism. It takes a long time to repair an image that they themselves have damaged and I'm not sure they're ready to take the necessary steps to fix this.
How do consumers perceive ZOS’s communications?- Responsiveness: Does ZOS issue communications in a timely and relevant fashion? I mean we get patch notes regularly, so they do the bare minimum. But on bugs, historically they've under performed. I'll never forget the merchant bug from earlier last year where people pinged Gina and Jessica for like 2 or 3 weeks and not one response. Then it showed up on Twitter. How convenient. Incredibly disrespectful to the playerbase, IMO. Kevin has help improved the forum experience, but I'm not clear on what he can communicate beyond basic statuses. He's great, but I think there's some things Gina and team should be doing here. You know, like having regular conversations.
- Transparency: Does ZOS share relevant internal information regarding policies and decisions in communications to their consumers? Outside of the TOS, no. We barely ever get insight into design decisions or why feedback is ignored or considered. It's a lot of "we're happy with it", no matter how much dissent has been vocalized.
CONCLUSIONS
Wrapping this up, I can provide additional examples of ZOS communications and how I personally felt about them, but I don’t think it will help. I think that if you objectively look inward to determine if you have done a good enough job at developing consumer empathy and applying that empathetic viewpoint in improving your authenticity, you’ll know most of what needs to be done. FWIW, I think in the past year you guys have done a lot better, and have even made some QOL changes that really went a long way to show that you listened to your consumers. If anything, you might have done more to take credit for that by saying “you guys have complained a lot about this and we heard you, and we have done X Y Z to fix it”. So please keep that trend upwards going, and also please acknowledge that if you are all really serious about communications, you still have a ways to go.
They have to stop fearing us, that's fundamentally what it comes down to. It's hard because I think the community can be harsh at tiems, and it's a personal view of how fair that harshness is. Personally, I think on major issues, the community is pretty fair by and large. Like Matt's letter - a lot of people feel like it's damage control. They have to get ahead of this feeling, but I don't get the impression they're doing anything to do so. I just think there's a leadership culture of "we're working on it", "tba", and defensiveness that has created a lot of animosity. Unless leadership changes - which quite frankly could do the game some good - I don't see this changing. Until they make some big changes, I will interpret all their actions as self- serving and damage control at this point. They give us just enough information and tease us with tweets like that.
Edited by Destai on January 17, 2022 2:52PM13 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭EdmondDontes wrote: »For me communication means being honest and telling the truth.
If the claim of "we're working on it" is supposed to mean things are being worked on. Not four years plus down the road announcing a plan to start working on it and tell customers it's going to take more time.
In my opinion this forum is where any game announcements or discussions should take place. That's why this forum exists. Social media is only for disseminating misinformation. So many of us will never read anything on those platforms because we refuse to participate on those platforms.
I think the point Matt was making is that they are working on the rearchitecture of the foundational server code. It took them several years to try everything else to fix the performance issues and haven't been able to get the performance that we want. The decision has to take in both technical feasibility and cost. This won't be a cheap fix and they have to do it without blowing up a live game.
Perhaps Matt could have done a video explaining their plans, but that probably would have received similar responses. It seems to be tougher and tougher to communicate in this world of anonymity. A few people can spread a lot of vitriol, putting the game companies in a damned if you do or damned if you don't situation. After seeing some of the responses even to this update does anyone think it encourages devs or community managers the desire to respond to feedback, to be on social media or to stream while playing the game?
This situation exists because for so many years ZOS has been telling us they're working on it and things have gotten worse, not better, for over four years. That is also the source of the vast majority of the vitriol.
Someone else posted the analogy somewhere on here, it's as if ZOS took a lead pipe to the knee of every PvP player and is now shouting at us "I don't know why you're complaining. Everything is fine! We're working on it!". After four or five years of "we're working on it", with nothing to show for it, the phrase becomes a slap to the face.4 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[snip] I would be surprised if you get a response to this. I would be shocked if that response was more then three sentences.
They essentially want all announcements and communication with the community to happen on twitter and twitch. Both of which just aren't very good for either thing.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 17, 2022 4:07PM15 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[snip] I would be surprised if you get a response to this. I would be shocked if that response was more then three sentences.
They essentially want all announcements and communication with the community to happen on twitter and twitch. Both of which just aren't very good for either thing.
Well, that's one way to abrogate communication I guess.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 17, 2022 4:08PM3