QOL for thieves and other types of criminals i guess

Sparxlost

Imagine if they totally beefed up the justice system in eso and as well as having an outlaws refuge in towns like if they added a few more hidden criminal utopia type towns to some zones.

Then they could make it so that whenever you entered a regular town if your bounty was high enough then upstanding players would be able to force you into a duel to claim as much of the bounty as you were carrying. In addition to this they could open up thieving quests at this point which would encourage you to keep thieving regular towns.
Thief towns would basically be regular towns like the size of Skywatch or others like that but hidden with a delve-type entrance. These kinds of "havens" there could be quests, shops, and crafting areas etc. and would be host to tons of lovely characters.
Stealing would be difficult and totally not worth it unless for a quest within the town as people who live there are aware of themselves and others. These places would also be guarded to protect residents and merchants from murderers and thieves-in-action, but there would be no bounty to gain from escaping these actions. Anyone could visit the towns, and maybe there would be incentive for upstanding players to like an auction house or something.
Wouldnt this make regular outlaws refuge areas obsolete? no because you would definitely still need somewhere to pay off bounties in case you wanted to be an upstanding citizen again.
How would i stop people from trying to duel me? Keep in mind that players wouldnt be able to see how much of a bounty you have so as long as you arent being shady in places you shouldnt be then things should be alright. though i get that there could be people who would go around initiating dual with anyone they can for quick cash i would suggest frequent stashing of gold or just hoarding treasure in your inventory instead... i imagine being a criminal is a high risk profession. maybe the thieves havens could outlaw violence altogether and disable dueling and bounty collecting altogether within. this way you would only be able to kill and rob npcs to get into trouble as the place is supposed to be safe. if you want your share of blood then maybe quests from residents can sate your hunger like go steal this item from this person or go find some stealthy way to assassinate or sabotage someone.

IDK i was thinking about how fun it is to play a slightly immoral character and really got into that sort of mindset.

hafgood

No thanks, I do not want open world PvP by the back door of players without a bounty being able to force those with a bounty to a dual

Thats the day I, and a lot of others, quit the game.

It may only be a "dual" but if they can take the bounty money then it has consequences on players.

And, say you just killed me for the 92 gold bounty I got for accidentally clicking on a pair of sabatons at a guild trader does that not make you a murderer? And therefore should give you a bounty? A much larger bounty than I had?

There is no such thing as an upstanding player, they are simply a player without a bounty. Why should they be able to attack me (even as a dual) because I stole something?

I didn't bother reading the rest of the idea I'm afraid, you lost my interest as soon as you started suggesting open world PvP by the back door. We do not need that in the game, the game isn't built for it and it will just result in a lot of griefing

hafgood

Oh and the title is slightly misleading - when people talk about QOL improvements for something it's to make their life easier.

Being dualed because you stole something is definitely not a QOL improvement for a thief, it's far from being an improvement, it make their lives a whole lot more complicated as they than have to avoid the players without a bounty that have decided they are fair game.

No, this is nothing about QOL for Thieves.

RicAlmighty

No, a thousand times no.

colossalvoids

You forgot one detail in your "qol" suggestion - to make your punishment justified at the very least bit should make thieves being able to rob players or their banks first, won't make sense in current system when thievery is just a walking/idle container looting.

Anyway it's not what qol means, surely some would enjoy this but it's same as forcing some climate system on everyone or making open pvp a norm here. Good luck with finding any support in that direction.

VaranisArano

Two big qualms:

1. ZOS considered adding an Enforcer role to the Justice System and decided against it because they couldn't keep players from gaming the system for rewards. How do you plan to address that?

2. Players are justifiably concerned that they would be griefed while playing the previously PVE-only Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLC. How do you intend to prevent griefing? (i.e. is this optional?)

Two minor concerns:

1. The risk here is born by the criminal. I'd like to see the tables turned. If the Enforcer can attack a criminal, the criminal must be able to attack and rob the Enforcer in return. Have you considered how that would work?

2. Right now, the Justice System is balanced for a lot of classes. My Stam Sorc makes a fine thief vs NPCs. Against players, anyone who's not on a Nightblade is going to be at a severe disadvantage without on-demand invisibility. Have you considered how that would work?

ArchangelIsraphel

At this rate, we are getting a thread like this nearly every week regarding the justice system which suggests adding PVP to it, and it is always met with a resounding "no" from the larger percentage of the community who does not want PVP overland forced on their PVE gameplay. I am not trying to be sarcastic when I say this- several threads like yours have already been discussed and have resulted in the same objections and issues.

I do agree that there is clearly a problem where thieves are growing bored with the game play we are given, and I do think that the thieves guild and DB need new content, but I don't think that we need PVP, nor do I think the basic aspects of its gameplay should be altered. I'd like to see more interesting implementation of PVE potential for quests and missions, the opportunity to be a thief or assassin for "good" or "bad" reasons (I.E. missions where you could steal from NPC theives that have stolen from others to help people, along with offerings of missions where you are up against high tier NPC enemies in order to steal things of value for a large reward- something better and more tactical than heists.)

I'd also like to see other ways of playing a theif and better stealth gameplay implemented, but it is likely impossible for this game. Things like Parkour, the use of the "grappeling bow" on demand to get over high walls...a little Assassins Creed style game play wouldn't go amiss.

I like your idea for a thieves town, I just don't like the concept of adding PVP to any aspect of overland gameplay. Especially since there are many problems with theft and the idea of adding PVP in general.

1. Thieves in ESO are incapable of stealing from actual players (nor do I want them to be) they "steal" from NPC's, who are not real. Strictly speaking from the perspective of game mechanics, and not from a RP point of view, no actual "theft" is occurring. The NPC's are unaffected by the "loss" of items they carry on their loot table- nothing is being taken from anyone real. However, if you were to PVP against a thief and take their bounty, you would be taking gold from an actual, real persons inventory who would be affected by the loss. The person who kills a "thief" would become the actual thief, taking gold from them upon death.

2. Pickpocketing is not skill based in ESO. It is RNG based. No one should be allowed to kill a thief because Rngesus decided to revoke favor on a pick at 90% chance resulting in a minor bounty. It doesn't matter how much capability a person has in game as a thief- that RNG can still get you in the end even when you are pick-pick-stabbing. I realize that you probably intend this system for thieves who are carrying a lot of heat and bounty around, but it doesn't change the fact that pickpocketing is largely RNG based, with only a certain amount of skill coming into it in regards to positioning and knowing when to take a chance. (I would argue that DB is more skill based, as assassination has no RNG element to it- just positioning, timing, and awareness of NPC movement cycles to avoid getting caught.)

3. Accidental thefts from objects on tables, in the world, ext. There are means in game to prevent this from happening, along with addons, but accidentally picking up an object or touching it should not result in a bounty capable of flagging a player for PVP. (A system should be implemented in game that allows people to put an object back down. Just because you pick something up for a second doesn't mean you intend to run away with it!)

4. As others have mentioned, this system is highly exploitable. Not to mention the fact that if someone is flagged for PVP because of a bounty...how are you going to stop a thief from being killed by every single "moral" player in the area? The theif would be swamped and at a disadvantage unless geared for extreme PVP, which most thieves are not- many use a PVE stealth build to perform well which isn't meant for damage or damage mitigation at all.

5. From an RP standpoint, your system assumes that all thieves and assassins are walking on the line of legality for amoral reasons or are inherently bad people, not allowing for much choice in the way a player wishes to portray their personality. Its way too black and white and doesn't allow for those who are playing thieves who have reasons other than greed to steal.

Apologies for the lengthy reply. There is probably more I could add, but as someone who plays many thieves- either for roleplay reasons or for the simple mechanics of making gold through the system, I'd love to have the mechanics of the game spiced up...with more options for things to do and tasks to complete...but not when it comes to PVP. (But if it were on a separate map intended for the purpose and a really good system was implemented with interesting gameplay and good rewards, I MIGHT consider it.)

Amottica

The suggestion for players to be able to force a player with a bounty into a duel will never happen. Besides the an opt-on system would be needed, making the system moot, it would be open to heavy exploit. Players could run up a huge bounty and have their friends or an alt initiate the duel and claim the huge bounty.

Kwoung

I can already picture all the "rightous" players standing around crafting stations ready to gank anyone who mis-clicked while doing their daily writs.

SilverBride

Allowing other players to force me into duels isn't quality of life for me.

Kwoung

As I suggested in another of the many threads on this subject... If a "rightous" player wants to attack criminals, they need to flag themselves as targets first... and be available as a target for blade of woe, pickpocketing, corpse looting, etc... Oh, and they should not be able to flag up with less than 1000 gold on them... that would be available to be looted from their pockets or dead bodies.

That would then be a "QOL" improvement for all the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood players who may enjoy that sort of thing.

Sparxlost

Varanis sorry if i answered wrong or didnt understand the question
1 maybe they could put a cap on how much gold can be acquired from dueling someone with a bounty as well as maybe thinking of adding a new skill line which could give people access to the forced duel ability and it would have a cooldown of some time the become a guard skill line.. lol obviously guard behavior would have to change so that they wont end up helping someone win the duel like stand back guys big chiefs here.

2 the thieves havens are places where bounty collection is not allowed and banking gold is always an option before you set out on a run

3 There is no justice for criminals they would be lucky to not get caught and there isnt really anything i can think of to gain maybe if you manage to ward off an attacking player then you would get the bounty hunter HUNTER reward where you get gold in the mail from whomever runs the thieves faction

4 well right now it might not work but Stealth pots are a cool thing to maybe escape npc guards i have this issue with stealth that when i go invis im only actually invis to enemies which really bugs me maybe if they changed that then stealth pots would be meta utility and since the cooldowns of pots is lengthy maybe they could consider upping the effect time of stealth pots??? but this doesnt really make it work with the way the game works at this point in time sorry about that ^~^

Dragonlord573

Having a bounty system where players could hunt down people with large bounties would be cool. Would give the "Justice" guild focus box a use. Cause why does that exist? There is no bounty hunting and you can't give people items to clear bounties. Unless that box means "we do crime."

Also... If we could report characters to have bounties put on them we could finally deal with the bot problem ourselves than wait for ZOS to deal with them.

Kwoung

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Also... If we could report characters to have bounties put on them we could finally deal with the bot problem ourselves than wait for ZOS to deal with them.

And that wouldn't be immediately abused to grief other players... right? Oh wait, they did something similar in New World... and it worked out oh so well.

Why is it these threads always seem like thinly veiled attempts at changing the rules so a subset of players can get away with griefing other players without repercussion?

Dragonlord573

Kwoung wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Also... If we could report characters to have bounties put on them we could finally deal with the bot problem ourselves than wait for ZOS to deal with them.

And that wouldn't be immediately abused to grief other players... right? Oh wait, they did something similar in New World... and it worked out oh so well.

Why is it these threads always seem like thinly veiled attempts at changing the rules so a subset of players can get away with griefing other players without repercussion?

Man I just wanna go to war against the bots. They got nightblade bots in Alikr Desert now making it that you can't force them off their path anymore with path of darkness. We're nearly out of options

Kwoung

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Also... If we could report characters to have bounties put on them we could finally deal with the bot problem ourselves than wait for ZOS to deal with them.

And that wouldn't be immediately abused to grief other players... right? Oh wait, they did something similar in New World... and it worked out oh so well.

Why is it these threads always seem like thinly veiled attempts at changing the rules so a subset of players can get away with griefing other players without repercussion?

Man I just wanna go to war against the bots. They got nightblade bots in Alikr Desert now making it that you can't force them off their path anymore with path of darkness. We're nearly out of options

I have to ask why do you care so much? I rarely see bots, mostly because I don't look for them in the first place, and they have absolutely zero effect on my gameplay and overall enjoyment of the game if I do. If I did find them in some spot I wanted to farm, I would simply swap instances or find a different spot, which I already do because of other players who aren't bots farming there, which is what I run into most of the time.

Not being flippant and I hope some mod doesn't take this as baiting, but my best suggestion would be to simply ignore what others are doing and focus on having your own fun in game. There are plenty of times that moving on and forgetting about it so you can have some fun / enjoyment is the best solution... both in game and real life actually.

VaranisArano

Sparxlost wrote: »

Varanis sorry if i answered wrong or didnt understand the question
1 maybe they could put a cap on how much gold can be acquired from dueling someone with a bounty as well as maybe thinking of adding a new skill line which could give people access to the forced duel ability and it would have a cooldown of some time the become a guard skill line.. lol obviously guard behavior would have to change so that they wont end up helping someone win the duel like stand back guys big chiefs here.

2 the thieves havens are places where bounty collection is not allowed and banking gold is always an option before you set out on a run

3 There is no justice for criminals they would be lucky to not get caught and there isnt really anything i can think of to gain maybe if you manage to ward off an attacking player then you would get the bounty hunter HUNTER reward where you get gold in the mail from whomever runs the thieves faction

4 well right now it might not work but Stealth pots are a cool thing to maybe escape npc guards i have this issue with stealth that when i go invis im only actually invis to enemies which really bugs me maybe if they changed that then stealth pots would be meta utility and since the cooldowns of pots is lengthy maybe they could consider upping the effect time of stealth pots??? but this doesnt really make it work with the way the game works at this point in time sorry about that ^~^

1. If the rewards of Enforcer/Criminal are capped at say, 1k per day, then perhaps ZOS might be comfortable with that.

Truth be told, the rest of it doesn't convince me. And I like PVP.

2. Thieves towns don't help with griefing in existing content. For example, Dark Brotherhood players have particular locations and NPCs they have to kill throughout Tamriel. It would be very easy for an Enforcer to sit in one of those locations and attack thief/assassin players as they try to quest. It's unpopular enough in Cyrodiil, so I can't see this change being desirable in previously PVE-only content.

3. The ability to grief is one reason why Criminals must be able to initiate the attack on any Enforcer they see. I don't know how much you gank in PVP, but the strongest advantage lies with the person who's best prepared for the attack. It is shockingly unfair to allow only the Enforcer to initiate the duel. Let's say an Enforcer is sitting on a spot where Dark Beotherhood players need to be. The Assasins need the option to initiate a duel on the Enforcer.

Either no one gets to initiate PVP
Or
Everyone gets to initiate PVP.

None if this "The Enforcers enforce justice, the Criminals can't." That's one-sided. That's Enforcers looking for easy victims. Give them the choice, and they'll pick the low health easy targets. No offense meant here - its just what we already see in PVP ganking.

Sorry, but Criminals should absolutely get to ambush, beat, and rob the Enforcers. If you want to play an Enforcer, be prepared for hardened Criminals to come after you. In PVP terms, if you spot a ganker first, you now have the advantage.

This can't be a one-sided affair where the Enforcers get to drive off the Criminals and not vice versa.

4. It would take a fairly major redo of stealth potions to bring them up to snuff with what nightblades can do. If you haven't, it might be worth looking into what stealth gameplay looks like in PVP right now. Stealth vs Players is very different from all the builds designed for Stealth vs NPCs.


Finally, in reading the other responses, there's three aspects I don't see addressed.

1. Is this Enforcer/Criminal dueling optional?

Because a bunch of players bought Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood as PVE only content. You propose changing the Justice System to force PVP into the safe, PVE only content that people bought, exposing them to griefing.

I reslly think you have to make this optional. Anything else is going to be enormously unpopular, like ZOS' last attempt at mixed PVE/PVP: Imperial City, which they are now giving away for free and its still empty. Plus, you can't really make that sort of giant change to content that people paid good money for only to make its gameplay about PVP.

2. Have you decided at what level of bounty Enforcers can take note of "criminal players"?

Because no one, even if it's optional, wants to be attacked for the high crime of accidentally picking up an apple. Dealing with the guards bugging me in middle of my crafting writs for 150ish gold is enough st in the wound.

3. As I said, I like PVP. I also think it has a steep learning curve, and every year I see PVEers complaining when they go to Cyrodiil and Imperial City only to die in a couple seconds when they fight experienced PVPers. It's just not that easy for new players to become proficient at ESO's PVP.

Even leaving aside that this system would greatly favor Nightblades, I'm just struggling to see how if would be accessible or enjoyable for new thieves/assassins/enforcers who wind up going toe to toe with far more experienced players and getting mashed flat in a couple of seconds. Do you have any ideas, or would it be a case of "It's optional" and when players feel comfortable, they can give it a try?

Sylvermynx

Not interested - and I don't even play thieves or assassins. I sometimes accidentally steal something from one of the guild trader stalls or writ turn in areas, so yeah.... nopenopenope on this idea.

Blinx

No.

Amottica

I think the main issue, and one that @VaranisArano brought up, is the greifing. Let us be real. Such a design is rife for groups or players to go after anyone with a bounty. That would drive players to abandon this aspect of the game or log out and swap to another character until the bounty wears off. Even AGS changed to an opt-in open-world PvP because they could not find a meaningful way to stop the greifing.

It is just too problematic which is probably why Zenimax abandoned a similar idea. For many of us, if we wanted to play an open-world PvP game we would probably be paying an open-world PvP game.

Sylvermynx

Amottica wrote: »

I think the main issue, and one that @VaranisArano brought up, is the greifing. Let us be real. Such a design is rife for groups or players to go after anyone with a bounty. That would drive players to abandon this aspect of the game or log out and swap to another character until the bounty wears off. Even AGS changed to an opt-in open-world PvP because they could not find a meaningful way to stop the greifing.

It is just too problematic which is probably why Zenimax abandoned a similar idea. For many of us, if we wanted to play an open-world PvP game we would probably be paying an open-world PvP game.

Eh, even in WoW and RIFT (opt in open world pvp) griefing still happened. A LOT. I don't know how it is now in those games (dropped WoW in early 2013, RIFT in early 2016, never been back to either one) so it could be different there now. I'd really hate to see that sort of thing here....

Sparxlost

Look im not going to give rewards to people who escaped getting caught red handed but there would be a cooldown on the passive that lets you duel a criminal so if they run away from the duel then you wont be able to challenge them again for awhile. lets just say the point at which you become an attackable criminal would be 5k then you would have to have a reward for people to have a bounty at least that high. one of the criminal passives could open up this line of farming.

So taking proof of killing a bounty hunter would incentivise pvpers to not run away from the duel for the rewards they might get. and likewise for non criminal players who would have to initiate the duel. naturally criminals would want to stay away from hub like towns unless they think they are super sneaky and can blend in and bounty hunters will take to the wilderness to hopefully make some gold. its an honorable duel of justice not like you are being bum rushed there is a countdown before the duel so you know whether to run or fight... that being said you would only be able to challenge someone every x hours or so unless they can give a buff to thieves which makes them unaffected by the skill for a duration but honestly running is a thiefs best friend in this case of an unsure battle

the problem i can think of here is people not committing to the duel then trying to escape to grief an otherwise earned reward
like if a thief starts to fight back is losing then they retreat to the border for a set amount of time maybe a cool ring of fire effect
Assuming the thief takes their path early on there would have to be a justice tutorial to teach them this stuff
stealing stuff gets you a bounty
at a certain bounty amount you become hunted by other players for gold
you can run early or fight the bounty hunter for rewards from thief towns or havens

New players would surely try his at some point but i imagine its more of an end-game thing
so Maybe its only available at a certain level?? no the newbies can just run away which is totally fair

assuming you wanted to frequent some NON-criminal places you could maybe use clemency to your advantage that guards wont bother you or even ask if you havent committed any RECENT crimes this would blow cover a lot less and honestly im tired of sorry criminals accidentally stealing something the stuff isnt yours and you did pick it up idc if it was a misclick pay more attention

as for the whole "this is only for nightblades thing" i will agree it is significantly more difficult to get away with being a thief or assassin on other classes but that doesnt mean that its impossible..

hafgood

No, just no.

We do not want open world PvP by the backdoor.

We do not want to be griefed by other players for taking part in the game.

This is billed as a QOL - and it certainly isn't. Its detrimental to the thief. How does it improve their game play? It doesn't, not one bit, it makes their life more difficult not easier, and QOL is all about making improvements.

This would seriously make me consider quitting the game. I do not play an open world PvP game, I do not want to play an open world PvP game.

If you want open world PvP then the best bet is to play a game that supports it.

Sparxlost

i realize the biggest problem with this is reward farming

say you are a bounty hunter and killed the bounty to obtain however much of the bounty they were carrying up to a max amount of 5k and then got a proof of bounty hunted the reward would have to be something small or basically insignificant to prevent farming

though thieves should be able to take gold from the other player after the duel is won as well i dont want there to be zero reward for the winner just because neither side was carrying any gold on them

So maybe good players will get transmutes or something

and criminals would get rewarded with high quality STOLEN but non laundered treasure which they could put towards their daily earnings???? i get that if you farmed with people every day this might be exploitable

hafgood

No, the biggest problem with this is that it's not what we signed up for. You are trying to introduce something into the game that isn't there and which player after player have said they don't want.

Please can you enlighten me as to why I should want to be able to be hunted by a bounty hunter? How does my game play improve? I'm genuinely curious as to why you think this is a good thing....

VaranisArano

Sparxlost wrote: »

Look im not going to give rewards to people who escaped getting caught red handed but there would be a cooldown on the passive that lets you duel a criminal so if they run away from the duel then you wont be able to challenge them again for awhile. lets just say the point at which you become an attackable criminal would be 5k then you would have to have a reward for people to have a bounty at least that high. one of the criminal passives could open up this line of farming.

So taking proof of killing a bounty hunter would incentivise pvpers to not run away from the duel for the rewards they might get. and likewise for non criminal players who would have to initiate the duel. naturally criminals would want to stay away from hub like towns unless they think they are super sneaky and can blend in and bounty hunters will take to the wilderness to hopefully make some gold. its an honorable duel of justice not like you are being bum rushed there is a countdown before the duel so you know whether to run or fight... that being said you would only be able to challenge someone every x hours or so unless they can give a buff to thieves which makes them unaffected by the skill for a duration but honestly running is a thiefs best friend in this case of an unsure battle

the problem i can think of here is people not committing to the duel then trying to escape to grief an otherwise earned reward
like if a thief starts to fight back is losing then they retreat to the border for a set amount of time maybe a cool ring of fire effect
Assuming the thief takes their path early on there would have to be a justice tutorial to teach them this stuff
stealing stuff gets you a bounty
at a certain bounty amount you become hunted by other players for gold
you can run early or fight the bounty hunter for rewards from thief towns or havens

New players would surely try his at some point but i imagine its more of an end-game thing
so Maybe its only available at a certain level?? no the newbies can just run away which is totally fair

assuming you wanted to frequent some NON-criminal places you could maybe use clemency to your advantage that guards wont bother you or even ask if you havent committed any RECENT crimes this would blow cover a lot less and honestly im tired of sorry criminals accidentally stealing something the stuff isnt yours and you did pick it up idc if it was a misclick pay more attention

as for the whole "this is only for nightblades thing" i will agree it is significantly more difficult to get away with being a thief or assassin on other classes but that doesnt mean that its impossible..

Let me see if I understand your idea here.

If you are playing Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood content and hit a certain level of bounty, it's not optional to not be harrassed by Enforcers trying to initiate a duel on you.

If you don't want to duel, you have to run away from whatever you were doing (i.e. stop doing the paid TG/DB content you were doing that you've always been able to do peacefully before.)

An Enforcer has a cooldown. Criminals can be harrassed by as many Enforcers are in an area.

This is griefing. No thanks.

How to fix: Make it totally optional. If you don't opt-in, no one can initiate a duel with you. You get to play the old style TG/DB content you bought the way it launched, with no PVP. Also, Criminals must be able to initiate duels with Enforcers or force them to run away so this is a two way street rather than Enforcers hunting for victims.


Genuine Question: have you played the Thieves Guild Collection Board Quests? Elam Drals' Black Book quests for the Dark Brotherhood? If you have, I want you to stop and think about how much of that paid DLC content is in Non-Thief Towns! If you haven't played it, then please, do and keep an eye open for how many times other players could interfere with your missions if they were so minded.

TG/DB players don't have a choice but to frequent non-thief areas in order to advance their standing with their guild. TG and DB players can't hang out in thieves towns. They have to go to all those other places to advance. You'd be forcing this gameplay into content that's just not designed for it.

How to fix: Make it completely optional. If you don't opt-in, no one can initiate a duel with you. You get to play the TG/DB content as designed without harassment by Enforcers or the ability to attack Enforcers.


But what about the minimum bounty of 5k?

A couple things to consider about why that's insufficient compared to the ability to opt-out or opt-in to dueling:

A. That's an arbitrary number you picked. ZOS could pick anything.
B. When I pick, pick, stab in broad daylight, I rarely get much above 500 gold in bounty at a time. I'm exactly the sort of Criminal that an Enforcer would be drooling over...and then annoyed that I'm nowhere near the bounty level so they can't stop me.
C. There are Justice Locations where players can easily get above that level of bounty - stealing gold furnishing recipes in a certain throne room or killing NPCs in a certain guardless area. Those areas would be hotspots for Enforcers looking to force Criminals into a duel.

Benefits of the Opt-in to Dueling System:
1. You can set the minimum bounty much lower because people agreed to it. 500 gold would account for almost all misclicks and Sorc Pets randomly deciding to attack the guards because somebody else got in a fight nearby.
2. It guarantees that there isn't really much griefing, since every Player agreed they wanted to be able to duel because they wanted to, not having it forced on them because of their gameplay.
3. It ensures that everyone who opts in is decently prepared for the consequences. That is, you know you are opting in, so you can prepare your build for PVP accordingly. If you learn you are unprepared and get mashed, you simply opt-out until you are ready to try again. Or if you learn that you hate the whole system, you simply opt-out forever and are never bothered by it all.



Finally, when you say: "honestly im tired of sorry criminals accidentally stealing something the stuff isnt yours and you did pick it up idc if it was a misclick pay more attention"

No offense, but I already have the guards coming after me like this:


I don't want to hear about "pay more attention" from anyone up there in the Peanut Gallery.

Sparxlost

i didnt take the time to read all of that but you could always keep your bounty low How is that for optional?????

Remathilis

So if people are dead set on PvP justice, I propose a counter-offer.

You must send a challenge to a character to the criminal. If the criminal immediately pays the bounty cost to the challenger, the duel is cancelled and everything goes back to normal. Make everyone a guard effectively, except PC "guards" can be defeated in Combat.

hafgood

Sparxlost wrote: »

i didnt take the time to read all of that but you could always keep your bounty low How is that for optional?????

I do always keep my bounty low, but thats not the point. The point is this shouldn't be forced on anyone, and as soon as something like this becomes optional - and default would have to be off, it has to be an opt in not an opt out - it doesn't become worth the programming time.

Not to mention how is this going to be paid for? As DB / TG are DLC's that not everyone has its difficult to justify doing it as the main feature of a chapter, so who is going to pay for it? I know I wouldn't want any of the money I spend on the game going on something like this, and I suspect the majority of players would agree with me

hafgood

Oh and I'm still lost as to how this improves my gameplay?

VaranisArano

Sparxlost wrote: »

i didnt take the time to read all of that but you could always keep your bounty low How is that for optional?????

You didn't take the time to read it, so you missed the part where I talked about how that's a less beneficial option than simply including an opt-in for people who want to duel.