Why do so few people run Halls of Fabrication?

Thepeug

After two years of playing, I've beaten every Trial except HoF and SO--because I can't find anyone who wants to group for them, neither in guilds nor PUGs. Is it because HoF is so long? In Craglorn, people seem to be looking for RG, AA, KA, HRC and SS most of the time.

Thoughts?

Fennwitty

It's long, but mainly it's the not-terribly-desirable gear at the moment.

starkerealm

Fennwitty wrote: »

It's long, but mainly it's the not-terribly-desirable gear at the moment.

Also, mechanically intensive, even on normal.

merpins

What others said. It's long, has a lot of mechanics even in normal, and the dropped sets aren't used.

peacenote

My recommendation is pay attention to the Clockwork City Celebration event. I find people will run HoF then for the double drops.

ajkb78

It's just painful running it with pugs, even on normal if you have a tank that doesn't understand the final boss you will wipe. It does get run by guilds especially when helping people farm master architect for a bad prog etc. Not so much pugged from Belkarth though.

colossalvoids

Just not much desirable loot to get, if there would be at least something to farm people would form groups and succeed like it was before when WM/MA were meta or close to it and not just another support set. Same with Asylum, it's only used as a fast one for some weekly as there's no good loot to get.

MissHeartseekerx

Can agree, it's hard to find a group for it. I've only been able to run it once but vSS/vHRC, dozens of times. I didn't really enjoy HoF, found it long and confusing, and it wasn't even a bad pug. Gear wasn't great, either. I've only ran SO with my guild, too, I don't think I've seen it advertised in Craglorn at all. If you set up your own group though, you can find people, because there's a lot of people who literally just run whatever trial for the fun of it, not even farming gear or dailies. The only trial I see advertised even less is MoL.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

It's like many of these group dungeons and trials, the gear, gold, etc. isn't worth the effort except during events

Jaimeh

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication. It also has a lot of environmental damage, it's long, and the sets that drop there haven't been used for meta builds for a good while now.

AuraStorm43

The gear in there just isn’t good anymore, master architect/war machine only really see use in vas

Least for me i got my skin and gold jewelry after 1 clear during the double drop event, no reason to go back

Vevvev

It's hard and just not worth it for many.

krachall

Long trial and the final boss is just stupid for a stam character. Yes, I get that it's Elder Staves Online and ZOS loves loves loves mag DPS but to make a final boss that's so obviously misaligned for stam characters is just weak.

I only play stamblades and flat out refused to run this trial...until the Armory. Now I swap to a bow/bow build and I'm a bit less worthless on that final boss.

woe

Idk, you must not be trying too hard to do them. I literally pugged both of those in crag today. They are always being done for the gear.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If you want HOF, best thing to do is look for a TTT group as those do exist. It’s just long and mechanically intensive enough that a lot of pick up groups struggle with it, even on normal. You ne f two tanks that know their shields from their arse and you also need damage dealers capable of playing individual mechanics.

There also currently isnt much of a carrot. The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

starkerealm

Jaimeh wrote: »

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication. It also has a lot of environmental damage, it's long, and the sets that drop there haven't been used for meta builds for a good while now.

Legitimately, I wrote a (mostly complete) rage filled walkthrough of HoF on these forums a couple years back as an explanation for why a trial groupfinder would be a bad idea. And I still reflexively use profanity when reading out the Trial's actual name. Like, it's a joke, but it's not really a joke anymore, I loathe that place that much (because of tanking it with an incompetent healer.)

NeeScrolls

Jaimeh wrote: »

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication..

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

There also currently isnt much of a carrot. The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

What ever happened to running things just for the sheer FUN & sense-of-game-accomplishment , rather merely for stats & shinies? Gosh i miss the days of pre-cu SWG. But i digress....

OP: once i finish completing (finally) all the DLC map zones to 100% done , i plan on doing weekly Trials again (PC/NA) and even though it'll be mostly my guild group i'll also open it to others (posting an announcement) and will def. put 'HOF' on the rotation.

If for no other reason than the fact that everytime i run a Trial with randoms , sure i get the achievement done but ugh it's like literally RUNNING thru the trial as if following some mass maniacal horde of speed-hacking bot-farmers, causing me to barely have enough time to loot much less read/click a book or notice the scenery or ohh i dunno learn the Trial. /boggle

starkerealm

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication..

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

There also currently isnt much of a carrot. The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

What ever happened to running things just for the sheer FUN & sense-of-game-accomplishment , rather merely for stats & shinies? Gosh i miss the days of pre-cu SWG. But i digress....

No, you're missing the point a little; the problem is it's not fun. At least not for the supports.

HoF's mechanics are really unpleasant. In a coordinated team, you can make it run smooth(ish), but for the tanks and healers, HoF (even on normal) is finicky and unforgiving. Beyond that, it's long.

Bosses have complex immunity mechanics that need to be properly performed, and coordinated between the tanks. You, literally, cannot kill some of the bosses if one of the tanks decides, "no, my way is better."

You do it once for the experience. You may do it again so your friends can have the experience. You never go back again by choice.

If there was a really good set in there, it might justify the suffering, but, there isn't. That's why that's coming up.

People don't run vet Crag trials for the loot, they do that for fun. Same with Vet Maw of Lorkhaj.

People don't run vet Halls of Fabrication. They don't do it for fun because it isn't. They don't do it for loot, because the drops are meh.

colossalvoids

starkerealm wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication..

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

There also currently isnt much of a carrot. The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

What ever happened to running things just for the sheer FUN & sense-of-game-accomplishment , rather merely for stats & shinies? Gosh i miss the days of pre-cu SWG. But i digress....

You never go back again by choice.

Well that's a stretch. People don't pug asylum often but that doesn't mean people don't like it. Even the most atrocious ones for me like KA have it's fans, but Crag is used for farming, fun runs and stuff is a guild thingy more of.

Yeah, I like hof lol.

NeeScrolls

starkerealm wrote: »

No, you're missing the point a little;

HoF's mechanics are really unpleasant.

You do it once for the experience. You may do it again so your friends can have the experience. You never go back again by choice. If there was a really good set in there, it might justify the suffering, but, there isn't.

People don't run vet Halls of Fabrication. They don't do it for fun because it isn't. .

yep i hear ya , but i guess my point was more of a philosophical wish for humanity (to be less governed/dictated by so called "rewards" ) . However, i fully realize i'm in the non-vocal minority in this regard.

In any event, i'm going to reserve my judgement of what constitutes "fun" until after i actually run HOF a couple times myself.

Who knows though, maybe i'll be back in this very thread saying the very same negative things about it too.

tmbrinks

vHoF is probably my 2nd favorite trial, when run with good supports. but can quickly turn into a nightmare.

vMoL is #1, but sadly it's so easy now with power creep that it loses some luster, but the mechanics are fun and enjoyable.

Healing vHoF is better than healing vSO.

Dagoth_Rac

It is all the snares and resource drains that ruin HoF for me.

starkerealm

colossalvoids wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication..

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

There also currently isnt much of a carrot. The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

What ever happened to running things just for the sheer FUN & sense-of-game-accomplishment , rather merely for stats & shinies? Gosh i miss the days of pre-cu SWG. But i digress....

You never go back again by choice.

Well that's a stretch. People don't pug asylum often but that doesn't mean people don't like it. Even the most atrocious ones for me like KA have it's fans, but Crag is used for farming, fun runs and stuff is a guild thingy more of.

Yeah, I like hof lol.

Yeah, I like KA, and Asylum. I'll grant you, I don't see a lot of Asylum PUGs, which is a little strange given that nAS is one of the fastest trials to clear for endeavors.

I'm actually quite fond of KA, in part because it will splatter large chunks of the DPS on normal. If you're not trying for no death or speedrun, that's actually kinda hilarious.

FeedbackOnly

The gear needs updates there

starkerealm

NeeScrolls wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

No, you're missing the point a little;

HoF's mechanics are really unpleasant.

You do it once for the experience. You may do it again so your friends can have the experience. You never go back again by choice. If there was a really good set in there, it might justify the suffering, but, there isn't.

People don't run vet Halls of Fabrication. They don't do it for fun because it isn't. .

yep i hear ya , but i guess my point was more of a philosophical wish for humanity (to be less governed/dictated by so called "rewards" ) . However, i fully realize i'm in the non-vocal minority in this regard.

In any event, i'm going to reserve my judgement of what constitutes "fun" until after i actually run HOF a couple times myself.

Who knows though, maybe i'll be back in this very thread saying the very same negative things about it too.

Yeah, "fun," is the reward. It is a thing about humans. We don't, generally, do anything unless we derive (or have derived) something from it. Even engaging in altruistic acts often fuel one's sense of ego. It gets deep into the weeds in psychology and brain chemistry, but, if you want someone to do something, that action has to be incentivized somehow.

In that sense, loot is, ironically, more of a deferred gratification. Sure, there's the endorphin hit in the moment, but the real reward is using it later. Getting a new murder-toy is fun. Killing things to get that murder-toy is fun. Killing things with that murder-toy is fun.

If you want to understand the real hatred for HoF that you're seeing, you need to tank it... or run with tanks who don't know what they're doing and won't take direction. See it when the wheels come off the wagon (or when your job is to keep those wheels firmly planted where they are), and you'll understand why I am so willing to torch that thing with fire.

colossalvoids

starkerealm wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

It's a very mechanics heavy trial, especially challenging for tanks/healers, that requires a great deal of coordination and communication..

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

There also currently isnt much of a carrot. The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

What ever happened to running things just for the sheer FUN & sense-of-game-accomplishment , rather merely for stats & shinies? Gosh i miss the days of pre-cu SWG. But i digress....

You never go back again by choice.

Well that's a stretch. People don't pug asylum often but that doesn't mean people don't like it. Even the most atrocious ones for me like KA have it's fans, but Crag is used for farming, fun runs and stuff is a guild thingy more of.

Yeah, I like hof lol.

Yeah, I like KA, and Asylum. I'll grant you, I don't see a lot of Asylum PUGs, which is a little strange given that nAS is one of the fastest trials to clear for endeavors.

I'm actually quite fond of KA, in part because it will splatter large chunks of the DPS on normal. If you're not trying for no death or speedrun, that's actually kinda hilarious.

That's the problem with people's perception, asylum can be super fun for us and many more people but if there's nothing to farm for chances are pretty low we're end up on a same server, same time, same zone with same desire to run it out of the sudden so to say;) In the end the content is fine but it looks like no one doing it, cause people measure a lot of things like that only by how frequent they see "lf X dds nX".

I see hof somewhere in that category also, it could be super fun but random groups would likely form for content that have best in slot gear for them to maybe even apply to some guilds that would actually run hof with them hehe.

Would love people doing content just of pure interest and love but it's a rare thing in zone chats.

karekiz

I like HoF. Each boss feels heavily different, no "filler" encounters like VMoL trash fights, and in general clockwork theme is a good aesthetic.

There is nothing more nice feeling than walking to the raptors and burning them. You don't even need crazy high DPS to do it either.

LashanW

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The skin is kinda ugly and the gear doesn’t do much for you other than niche builds.

I hate what they've done to that skin. It should be pure Gold texture everywhere (like Asylum skin), instead this has some god awful patches

starkerealm wrote: »

You do it once for the experience. You may do it again so your friends can have the experience. You never go back again by choice.

If there was a really good set in there, it might justify the suffering, but, there isn't. That's why that's coming up.

People don't run vet Crag trials for the loot, they do that for fun. Same with Vet Maw of Lorkhaj.

People don't run vet Halls of Fabrication. They don't do it for fun because it isn't. They don't do it for loot, because the drops are meh.

I really like this trial. It looks like something out of star wars. Love the last boss. Assembly Generals are the coolest looking dwemer/fabricant type enemy I've ever seen. I've done it so many times I've completed my stickerbook for that trial. But always did it with trial guildies. Mainly for TTT.

starkerealm

LashanW wrote: »

always did it with trial guildies. Mainly for TTT.

Yeah, in a premade, with players who know what they're doing, it can run pretty smoothly. PUGs and Progs though? Not happiness.

tuxon

+ Super Cool Looking Trial with great visuals and fantastic LORE behind it and story with Fyr himself

- long, like VERY long, pretty damn hard, mechanics that require communicating and coherent group that knows what to do

Vaoh

Just bad gear, that’s all.

Gear is a huge incentive for groups to run stuff. I think Sunspire had the most progging I ever seen because Yoln and False God are both great sets overall. And Lokke used to be good (still kinda is) too.