Inside Scoop: Why the basic clothing items never got added to the outfit system and never will

spartaxoxo

I asked this question in Rich's stream yesterday, and the answer is really simple. They thought they were ugly and they could do better, so they didn't really want us to use them too much. That's it. That's the reason. I actually like the clothes myself, but I guess there's no accounting for taste haha.

If you want to use these items, I recommend putting them on in the armory and just using it as an about town outfit. I'm sure the 3 of you that also like these will find that an okay workaround.

In the meantime, I will continue to hold out hope that one day they will allow us to be as (apparently) as we want to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o

Elsonso

Sounds like Rich needs some incentive to do better...

spartaxoxo

For those curious, these are the basic clothing items that I mean



You get them from stealing and they can be equipped into the armor slot.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

Sounds like Rich needs some incentive to do better...

I honestly hope this thread gets some support, but I think at this point a lot of people wouldn't do that. If they saw that people liked these clothes maybe, and that the reason they don't use them is they take an armor slot, maybe they would consider adding them.

I'm not gonna hold my breath though.

joseayalac

I've always thought that the Outfit system doesn't let you look like you're on non armor clothing because that's where the Costumes come in.

Just like we can't hide shoulders, that look is reserved for the Costumes and that way they can continue to sell them. (Otherwise the Outfit system would've erradicated them)

spartaxoxo

joseayalac wrote: »

I've always thought that the Outfit system doesn't let you look like you're on non armor clothing because that's where the Costumes come in.

Just like we can't hide shoulders, that look is reserved for the Costumes and that way they can continue to sell them. (Otherwise the Outfit system would've erradicated them)

Nah. They considered adding them back in the day, and decided not to just because they were "ugly." Rich's last stream actually talked about some interesting things and also some personal life things of himself and the people chatting. It was actually really interesting.

Another thing they talked about was that the reason that they have identified what's been causing the perfomance issues in PVP but that it's something on at a foundational level of the game. And it basically requires them to do a rearchitecture. He compared it to being out of blocks and having to redo the foundation of a Jenga tower. You can do it, but it's gonna take a lot of very careful planning and movement, so the tower don't fall. Or like replacing a bottom piece on a house of cards although he noted both of these examples make it sound more precarious and derogatory then he intended, but it's the closest non-computer thing he could compare it to at the time. So it's going to be a while before they are able to add any new systems to PVP but they are working pretty hard on it.

BloodyStigmata

Why do that when they can sell you nicer ones for 400 crown gems?

spartaxoxo

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

Why do that when they can sell you nicer ones for 400 crown gems?

I don't think this would effect the sell of the nicer outfits, because those are nicer.

FluffWit

I don't think they get that when it comes to motifs/ style pages a lot of us just want really simple basic stuff.

VaranisArano

One, if they rejigger enough stuff to actually fix PVP, I will be legitimately astounded.

Two, thanks for asking about the clothing! One of the reasons I've never used them is that I can't wear them as styles over my armor.

So I guess I'd tell the Devs, "Yeah, the clothing is old and might not look the best, but it would still be awesome to have the option!"

Kiralyn2000

Boo, hiss.

I've got a full set of civilian gear on my mule, who's been wearing an outfit that's kind of halfway between stevedore & biker chick. I've been waiting for them to eventually become Styles.
(speaking of ugly, we get the prisoner rags & some other trash that looks bad, but not this? /sigh)



It'd also be nice if the Seducer & other unique-drop gear (Encasement of Anguish, etc) got Styles.

Paulytnz

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

Why do that when they can sell you nicer ones for 400 crown gems?

As well as require you to have ESO+ so you can recolour them as you like right....

Harvokaan

Funny how normal clothing is ugly for Rich yet he doesn't have a problem with releasing motifs with awful hip flaps (they are everywhere, why zos). Looks like another example that Rich can sometimes be wrong about something eso related

Vevvev

I remember being there for his conversation on people's expectations on him. Since he's a developer it's like he has to earn his place among the community instead of being apart of it by default since he does indeed play his own game.

I said something and I can't remember my exact words but his reply was that people tend to take his words as gospel truth when in fact they really shouldn't. Take what he says about things like this with a grain of salt.

ArchangelIsraphel

The vest and shirt in the picture above is better looking than the armor style pages we got in the impesario for the holiday event to be honest.

I too hope all of these become style pages, along with some of the clothing parts from various disguises that have simpler clothing.

Honestly, it would be really nice to have some simple yet styleish clothing like this. I love my flashy armor as much as the next hero of Tamriel, but I'd like some casual wear that's dyeable and interchangeable.

I'd immediately slap that sleeveless vest and shirt on my high elf boys >_>;;;

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

Funny how normal clothing is ugly for Rich yet he doesn't have a problem with releasing motifs with awful hip flaps (they are everywhere, why zos). Looks like another example that Rich can sometimes be wrong about something eso related

He's not the art guy and it wasn't what he decided.

Marto

Harvokaan wrote: »

Funny how normal clothing is ugly for Rich yet he doesn't have a problem with releasing motifs with awful hip flaps (they are everywhere, why zos). Looks like another example that Rich can sometimes be wrong about something eso related

They're part of the aesthetic of ESO. And are one of the things that gives ESO characters their distinct silhoutte.

It's the equivalent to World of Warcraft's pauldrons, DC Animated TV shows' calves.

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

Why do that when they can sell you nicer ones for 400 crown gems?

True. I'm sure that's a factor, to a degree.

But it also makes sense that a developer would prioritize like that.

If you were an artist working for ZOS, and you thought your current work was considerably better looking than what was done before, it'd only natural you'd want to encourage other players to wear your nicely crafted, new outfit.

Devs want us to experience and enjoy the things they make.

SammyKhajit

Sammy likes those clothes - wish they can make it into costumes or pieces you can wear over the armour.

Araneae6537

I like several of the clothing items and anyway, there’s supposed to be normal commoner clothes, right? Why not add them for those who like them? By all means, add better or at least different clothing options too — the more choices the better and some things I’ve at first thought unappealing I’ve later much liked for another character.

Harvokaan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

Funny how normal clothing is ugly for Rich yet he doesn't have a problem with releasing motifs with awful hip flaps (they are everywhere, why zos). Looks like another example that Rich can sometimes be wrong about something eso related

He's not the art guy and it wasn't what he decided.

Not sure if you know what is a job of Creative Director. As Creative Director he is responsible for visual style, story, assets, marketing materials and ton of other stuff. If he decide "we don't want those ugly hip flaps anymore" then ppl resposnible for new motif must acknowledge that.

Marto wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

Funny how normal clothing is ugly for Rich yet he doesn't have a problem with releasing motifs with awful hip flaps (they are everywhere, why zos). Looks like another example that Rich can sometimes be wrong about something eso related

They're part of the aesthetic of ESO. And are one of the things that gives ESO characters their distinct silhoutte.

It's the equivalent to World of Warcraft's pauldrons, DC Animated TV shows' calves.

I get that, just saying that its funny hw something this ugly can be okay while normal clothing is a nono they could at least not add it on almost every armor in the game, that would be nice

ive_wonder

More choices is better i would love those to be added to outfit system!

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

If he decide "we don't want those ugly hip flaps anymore" then ppl resposnible for new motif must acknowledge that.

He literally said it was the art director that decided. I don't know why you're so insistent he was the guy when you didn't even watch the stream. I did. It was literally my question. You are welcome to review it so you can see exactly what he said.

But it was a very short response.

HyekAr

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I asked this question in Rich's stream yesterday, and the answer is really simple. They thought they were ugly and they could do better, so they didn't really want us to use them too much. That's it. That's the reason. I actually like the clothes myself, but I guess there's no accounting for taste haha.

If you want to use these items, I recommend putting them on in the armory and just using it as an about town outfit. I'm sure the 3 of you that also like these will find that an okay workaround.

In the meantime, I will continue to hold out hope that one day they will allow us to be as (apparently) as we want to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o

Actually he is right, in some way all the cloths are ugly. Except some from crown store
But well it is my subjective opinion, coz I like more gothic middle age type, with korean MMO detailed touch

P.E. I do like the werewolf style dropped this days

emilyhyoyeon

although costumes cost crowns I prefer using them as basic town clothing because I agree that the basic clothing items look ugly; but I think the option should definitely be there for others

Ksariyu

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Another thing they talked about was that the reason that they have identified what's been causing the perfomance issues in PVP but that it's something on at a foundational level of the game. And it basically requires them to do a rearchitecture. He compared it to being out of blocks and having to redo the foundation of a Jenga tower. You can do it, but it's gonna take a lot of very careful planning and movement, so the tower don't fall. Or like replacing a bottom piece on a house of cards although he noted both of these examples make it sound more precarious and derogatory then he intended, but it's the closest non-computer thing he could compare it to at the time. So it's going to be a while before they are able to add any new systems to PVP but they are working pretty hard on it.

Not to slightly derail your thread, but THIS is the kind of information that would be nice to see in an official forum post/article, rather than have it tucked into 3 hours of Rich's wife talking or random inside jokes with other streamers. (Nothing against his personal stream, I just wish it wasn't the best source of development updates)

More on topic though, I'll give my support to letting clothing be used as outfit styles. It's not something I personally would use a lot, but I'm all for adding options, especially when the items themselves are already in the game.

Fennwitty

I'd love if they were added.

Or heck make new versions if you really need to make 'new stuff'.

It's really hard to make certain types of outfits as it is (everything flaps, flaps flaps).

Tenthirty2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I asked this question in Rich's stream yesterday, and the answer is really simple. They thought they were ugly and they could do better, so they didn't really want us to use them too much. That's it. That's the reason. I actually like the clothes myself, but I guess there's no accounting for taste haha.

If you want to use these items, I recommend putting them on in the armory and just using it as an about town outfit. I'm sure the 3 of you that also like these will find that an okay workaround.

In the meantime, I will continue to hold out hope that one day they will allow us to be as (apparently) as we want to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o

Hello, one of your 3 ppl here o/
I collect the misc clothing bits lol.
I have some for kicking around town while shopping or for sleepwear, around the house for building and crafting, etc

I actually have found most of mine from dragon drops which is, rather morbid
But after a good washing they seem to be in fine shape.

I keep forgetting to search for an indexing of all the ones in-game bcuz I think there may be pieces I'm still missing.
At least I'm hoping there are some to find yet.

VaranisArano

The sad thing is that if we had more official communication regarding topics like this, perhaps that would alleviate some of the pressure on Rich or the feeling that players take what he says as gospel when it isn't.

Maybe more "Ask Me Anything" activities, where there can be both video and transcripts?

aurorable

They should be added, I don't see why more options is seen as a bad thing. The "they are ugly" is a poor excuse. If they are truly so ugly, then why not improve/update them and then make them obtainable in game as a style page or runebox? (NOT added to the crown store)

MEBengalsFan2001

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Another thing they talked about was that the reason that they have identified what's been causing the perfomance issues in PVP but that it's something on at a foundational level of the game. And it basically requires them to do a rearchitecture. He compared it to being out of blocks and having to redo the foundation of a Jenga tower. You can do it, but it's gonna take a lot of very careful planning and movement, so the tower don't fall. Or like replacing a bottom piece on a house of cards although he noted both of these examples make it sound more precarious and derogatory then he intended, but it's the closest non-computer thing he could compare it to at the time. So it's going to be a while before they are able to add any new systems to PVP but they are working pretty hard on it.

Looks like this game may get a fully revision in the near future. Here to 2023 and me looking for a new mmo. Last game that did this I didn't stick around because the changes really ruined the game for me.

sarahthes

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Another thing they talked about was that the reason that they have identified what's been causing the perfomance issues in PVP but that it's something on at a foundational level of the game. And it basically requires them to do a rearchitecture. He compared it to being out of blocks and having to redo the foundation of a Jenga tower. You can do it, but it's gonna take a lot of very careful planning and movement, so the tower don't fall. Or like replacing a bottom piece on a house of cards although he noted both of these examples make it sound more precarious and derogatory then he intended, but it's the closest non-computer thing he could compare it to at the time. So it's going to be a while before they are able to add any new systems to PVP but they are working pretty hard on it.

Looks like this game may get a fully revision in the near future. Here to 2023 and me looking for a new mmo. Last game that did this I didn't stick around because the changes really ruined the game for me.

That's not what Rich said LOL. He said that some of the very deep aspects of the code base are outdated and inefficient, and were built on assumptions that are no longer true. They can be corrected, but it will be a slow process with a lot of testing and care before live implementation so that the end result is more efficient math by the database. They aren't going to change gameplay, just how the server maths from point a to point b (as currently it routes through 7 on the way). To oversimplify.