ZOS about the guild trader system

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

It does get a little old being told that items aren't farmable when I do it all the time, though.

I feel the same way about about hearing how a player refuses to join a guild with a trader because they think they all charge outlandish dues or they simply dislike paying a 7% sales tax... as it is basically a penny wise pound stupid argument. Going out on a limb, I strongly suspect those of us rolling in more gold than we know what to do with, all have at least one guild with a public trader, and while I suppose it is possible to get rich zone spamming wares, doing so doesn't seem like it would leave a whole lot of time to actually play the game for those who choose that path. Never mind the impact to your gameplay, as a lot of players put those zone spammers on ignore.

Then inevitably, we get these AH threads as that will somehow cure the issue. Although since many of those players already made it clear they don't want to pay even 7%, I do not see how paying 10-30% under an AH system would be helpful or entice them to use it. /shrug

Merlin13KAGL

VaranisArano wrote: »

Uh...you farm Alchemy reagents by running around the zones picking them up. If you need flowers, the Hollow City is fantastic for it. That's my preferred farming ground for cornflower.

You can also get alchemy satchels from farming Telvar in IC and from unlocking the Shadowy Supplier in the DB questline. Do that on each character and you can literally login, receive another 'daily reward' and log back out. Alchemy surveys are another alternative, effectively trading one set of mats for another. I haven't done the math in a while to know if the cost is worth the reward or not on those. I also don't know if the double harvest CP affects the surveys (I would assume not).

The random node is a good thing. Otherwise, people would be camping the same spot and you'd likely never get to harvest. And bots would adore it.

Sylvermynx

@Merlin13KAGL - the % chance to harvest does affect surveys - the most you can get is a +50% chance for double. I have one account with nearly 900 CP, and the main on that account is the only one who has that perked at 50% so far. She normally gets more than 3 of 6 doubles in rubedite ore and ruby ash, and usually only a couple in platinum, with clothier surveys quite often providing only 1 double, but most of the time none. Pretty weird....

Merlin13KAGL

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Merlin13KAGL - the % chance to harvest does affect surveys - the most you can get is a +50% chance for double. I have one account with nearly 900 CP, and the main on that account is the only one who has that perked at 50% so far. She normally gets more than 3 of 6 doubles in rubedite ore and ruby ash, and usually only a couple in platinum, with clothier surveys quite often providing only 1 double, but most of the time none. Pretty weird....

Thankyou for clarifying, @Sylvermynx !

PrimusTiberius

I like the current system and don't mind the running around looking for a good deal on an item, it just takes time. The only thing I would like to see changed, is adding additional guild traders, add a few more traders around those single traders that are near wayshrines, add a few more around the capitol cities and lower the guild qualifications to obtain a trader to 30 instead of 50. This would give more guilds an opportunity to get a trader and bring in more opportunities to get a great deal.

VaranisArano

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I like the current system and don't mind the running around looking for a good deal on an item, it just takes time. The only thing I would like to see changed, is adding additional guild traders, add a few more traders around those single traders that are near wayshrines, add a few more around the capitol cities and lower the guild qualifications to obtain a trader to 30 instead of 50. This would give more guilds an opportunity to get a trader and bring in more opportunities to get a great deal.

Are 30 players going to sell enough to fill those guild traders for a week? A pretty empty trader doesn't attract many buyers.

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I like the current system and don't mind the running around looking for a good deal on an item, it just takes time. The only thing I would like to see changed, is adding additional guild traders, add a few more traders around those single traders that are near wayshrines, add a few more around the capitol cities and lower the guild qualifications to obtain a trader to 30 instead of 50. This would give more guilds an opportunity to get a trader and bring in more opportunities to get a great deal.

Are 30 players going to sell enough to fill those guild traders for a week? A pretty empty trader doesn't attract many buyers.

Easy answer, nope. I have come across many small guilds who ponied up for a trader now and then... and they have almost nothing listed. But that is their right if they want to drop the multiple millions on a trader it takes to do so.

Oddly though, it is almost a disservice to the guild itself I found when we first started having a trader, simply because many members are quite generous with their pricing when selling internally... but the second the trader goes public, those items priced to help guildies, get swooped up immediately by flippers. In our case we had to make a commitment to keep a trader and figure out how to fund it, which can be a daunting task in itself, and we spent a lot of personal time and resources doing so until we got it nailed down.

I will agree that the game definitely needs more traders, even if they were a Crown item to buy and place in your home. Which of course would also mean some sort of a way to travel to them be made available as well. If I remember correctly back in the day, Everquest implemented a new "plane" where you could go place your personal trader for everyone to access, and while giving every player that option would be unwieldly, it would probably work nicely into the existing guild system. Basically a huge "Bazaar" where you travel from stall to stall poking through everyones wares.

Edit: Before anyone poopoo's the idea, the price of the Bazaar traders could be easily based on location as well, closer to wayshrine, main drag vs ally, ground level vs upstairs, etc... I personally think it would solve most of the complaints we see about the current trader system while still allowing the serious trade guilds to maintain their prime locations, all while making a "Trip to the Bazaar" a really fun and rewarding activity. Also, if you want to keep the current traders, make the bazaar a long boat ride away or something, not just a quick port in and out affair.

HyekAr

Omg, I read some ppl defending trade system saying that "this is sparta" and nothing else..

Well guys,
Im sorry but behind of ESO chars are real humans who like confortable play

I will repeat, the key word is CONFORTABLE, and the most comfortble thing is liberating the market.

Nobody wants auction, but in game comerce system. Something like A**Z*N, Alli*****ss, B***ing.. there is multiple. Which is confortable.

But ofcourse its not possible to create this in small place as ESO, bcz it wont create a fair compency between players.

And there is no system to create comercial unions between guilds to offer their products in one NPC. And create a competency system.

and it will be NPC created by ZOS which will ends up becoming as an auction. Thats why:

Thats why there should be both system,

1. A free landscape in each region with limited place for privat offline selling p2p, with limited selling slots(4 or 5)- up to 10 with crowns.
And to avoid zergs over there it should be able after reaching lvl 50, and do a mega dificult quest.


2. After doing that,
Create in each region an NPC for trading guilds, for that region, with taxes for posting their guild in there.
With characteristics, minimum active online, or minimum selling per month or week, etc.
So it wont be global auction bcz if would be limited to the region and not everyone could post there.

But both things would give confort for ppl who wants to play in different manner. Isnt this the point which make ESO different from others? The variety of options?

PizzaCat82

The more I think about it the more I've concluded that this is not as much a game design choice but rather a technical limitation. Therefore I don't think a central auction house is possible.

That being said, there's solutions that could work:

1. Create an official TTC like interface for the game and tie it into a web page, which you can visit in the game world if needed. That would tell you where things are, and where to get them, and what they sell for. Everything TTC does, but for all systems.

2. Let Outlaw refuge guild traders allow 10 places (everyone only gets 10, and they take away from slots in regular traders for those thinking to use both guild less and guild) for guildless trading but with a higher % cut (not listing fee) than regular guild traders. That way people who don't want to sell in the main traders can use these without too much of a handicap, but using a guild trader would obviously be better for several reasons.

PrimusTiberius

VaranisArano wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I like the current system and don't mind the running around looking for a good deal on an item, it just takes time. The only thing I would like to see changed, is adding additional guild traders, add a few more traders around those single traders that are near wayshrines, add a few more around the capitol cities and lower the guild qualifications to obtain a trader to 30 instead of 50. This would give more guilds an opportunity to get a trader and bring in more opportunities to get a great deal.

Are 30 players going to sell enough to fill those guild traders for a week? A pretty empty trader doesn't attract many buyers.

Not in capitol cities, no. But if you follow what I'm suggesting, adding a couple more traders next to the single traders near the wayshrines, would give the smaller guilds an opportunity to sell their wares, making it more attractive to players looking for items, meanwhile the larger trading guilds would still be competing for traders in capitol cities, again adding a few more traders in capitol cities, adds more competition with a potential for better cost on items.

Big trading guilds like to boast about their capitol traders, with that comes higher cost for those who don't shop around and it restrict players who can't afford (or don't want to pay) guild fees. I think many would agree that something needs to improve with trading system here and accessibility to more items would be a step in the right direction. Many who suggest a central auction hall is better (which I'm against) because they don't belong to a large guild that has a trader (for reasons of their own), so let the smaller guilds have a smaller area to sell their stuff.

This would also make the smaller guilds more attractable to players looking for a guild that has a trader, giving the potential for smaller guilds to grow, if that's their desire or some players just like belonging to small, low population guilds, so give them a chance to obtain a trader in a low population area...at least in an area where there's more than just one trader...whats the harm in that?

Big trading guilds don't want a change because they think it will affect their bottom line and we all know that's a fact

Cheers,

wolfie1.0.

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

The more I think about it the more I've concluded that this is not as much a game design choice but rather a technical limitation. Therefore I don't think a central auction house is possible.

That being said, there's solutions that could work:

1. Create an official TTC like interface for the game and tie it into a web page, which you can visit in the game world if needed. That would tell you where things are, and where to get them, and what they sell for. Everything TTC does, but for all systems.

2. Let Outlaw refuge guild traders allow 10 places (everyone only gets 10, and they take away from slots in regular traders for those thinking to use both guild less and guild) for guildless trading but with a higher % cut (not listing fee) than regular guild traders. That way people who don't want to sell in the main traders can use these without too much of a handicap, but using a guild trader would obviously be better for several reasons.

from what i have read, and according to ZOS's own statements it was both a design and technical decision. First early on ZOS indicated that the guild trader system is here to stay and it was by their choice, and they have done very little to indicate that they are going to change it. Second, we know from ZOS's statements, and several key server crashes, that they had to limit how often addons and other software could retrieve history.

given that here are the problems:

For the first part of your idea this would still increase the strain on the System, granted that it doesn't take as much effort as Master Merchant and some other addon's do/did however we are still talking about an active data stream here and depending on how often it refreshes it could cause the same server strain. Refresh too often and it crashes the system, refresh not often enough and it is an ineffective tool, and ZOS would lean on the latter not the former.

As for the second part of your idea. Its been proposed before, but it wouldn't work as well as you think it might. From the technical aspect. Each guild trader has a maximum capacity of 15,000 (500 accounts x 30 listing slots) listings at any given moment and if the trader is full then . To give every account access to a trader , regardless of slot capacity) would change listing capacity, storage, and transaction activity exponentially. If the system can't handle requests from an addon to process the activity that we currently have, then how will it handle the additional traffic as well as feed that same activity into an external website?

This is not even addressing the issue that any such move by ZOS would effectively change the system to a generalized auction house system. Nor does it address the costs involved, nor look at economic impacts it would have.

In all honestly, i am not opposed to a GAH, in fact i would have quite fun with one in ESO. i would form a trade guild with like minded people, I would go out and organize trade raids where we as a guild would start buying and selling in ways just to see how our actions manipulate and control the market. I would work to compete for all of the resources and do my best to corner markets and influence prices. It would be quite fun.

ZOS on the other hand, probably won't make the change at this late stage. in order to ensure that the economy was balanced when they swapped over they would have to do a server wipe of everything that could be traded or deconned into tradeable materals. They won't do that unless they have a really really big monetary incentive to do so. The costs are to high, for very little gain on their end. so lets be real here, the craft bag killed any hope of a GAH happening.

VaranisArano

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I like the current system and don't mind the running around looking for a good deal on an item, it just takes time. The only thing I would like to see changed, is adding additional guild traders, add a few more traders around those single traders that are near wayshrines, add a few more around the capitol cities and lower the guild qualifications to obtain a trader to 30 instead of 50. This would give more guilds an opportunity to get a trader and bring in more opportunities to get a great deal.

Are 30 players going to sell enough to fill those guild traders for a week? A pretty empty trader doesn't attract many buyers.

Not in capitol cities, no. But if you follow what I'm suggesting, adding a couple more traders next to the single traders near the wayshrines, would give the smaller guilds an opportunity to sell their wares, making it more attractive to players looking for items, meanwhile the larger trading guilds would still be competing for traders in capitol cities, again adding a few more traders in capitol cities, adds more competition with a potential for better cost on items.

Big trading guilds like to boast about their capitol traders, with that comes higher cost for those who don't shop around and it restrict players who can't afford (or don't want to pay) guild fees. I think many would agree that something needs to improve with trading system here and accessibility to more items would be a step in the right direction. Many who suggest a central auction hall is better (which I'm against) because they don't belong to a large guild that has a trader (for reasons of their own), so let the smaller guilds have a smaller area to sell their stuff.

This would also make the smaller guilds more attractable to players looking for a guild that has a trader, giving the potential for smaller guilds to grow, if that's their desire or some players just like belonging to small, low population guilds, so give them a chance to obtain a trader in a low population area...at least in an area where there's more than just one trader...whats the harm in that?

Big trading guilds don't want a change because they think it will affect their bottom line and we all know that's a fact

Cheers,

My point was that even in the small out-of-the-way traders at far-flung wayshrines or Outlaws Refuge, requiring fifty people gives them a decent shot have having a reasonable amount of goods to sell to the public.

Consider it mathematically, if you will. Each member can list a maximum of 30 items at once, right?

A 30-member guild: 900 items, max.
A 50-member guild: 1500 items, max.
A 500-member guild: 15,000 items, max.

Since we can guess that a 30-member guild will likely not keep all 900 slots fully stocked (because most 500-member guilds don't either), does it really make since to make sense to make public guild traders available to people who can't possibly list even a thousand items at once?

I'd be fine with giving 30-member guilds access to the private guild-only store. That gives them access to some sales.

I just don't think it makes sense to give 30-member guilds access to a public spot when they can't possibly list many items. Let the small 50-member guilds have more public trader spots to compete for.

PrimusTiberius

VaranisArano wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I like the current system and don't mind the running around looking for a good deal on an item, it just takes time. The only thing I would like to see changed, is adding additional guild traders, add a few more traders around those single traders that are near wayshrines, add a few more around the capitol cities and lower the guild qualifications to obtain a trader to 30 instead of 50. This would give more guilds an opportunity to get a trader and bring in more opportunities to get a great deal.

Are 30 players going to sell enough to fill those guild traders for a week? A pretty empty trader doesn't attract many buyers.

Not in capitol cities, no. But if you follow what I'm suggesting, adding a couple more traders next to the single traders near the wayshrines, would give the smaller guilds an opportunity to sell their wares, making it more attractive to players looking for items, meanwhile the larger trading guilds would still be competing for traders in capitol cities, again adding a few more traders in capitol cities, adds more competition with a potential for better cost on items.

Big trading guilds like to boast about their capitol traders, with that comes higher cost for those who don't shop around and it restrict players who can't afford (or don't want to pay) guild fees. I think many would agree that something needs to improve with trading system here and accessibility to more items would be a step in the right direction. Many who suggest a central auction hall is better (which I'm against) because they don't belong to a large guild that has a trader (for reasons of their own), so let the smaller guilds have a smaller area to sell their stuff.

This would also make the smaller guilds more attractable to players looking for a guild that has a trader, giving the potential for smaller guilds to grow, if that's their desire or some players just like belonging to small, low population guilds, so give them a chance to obtain a trader in a low population area...at least in an area where there's more than just one trader...whats the harm in that?

Big trading guilds don't want a change because they think it will affect their bottom line and we all know that's a fact

Cheers,

My point was that even in the small out-of-the-way traders at far-flung wayshrines or Outlaws Refuge, requiring fifty people gives them a decent shot have having a reasonable amount of goods to sell to the public.

Consider it mathematically, if you will. Each member can list a maximum of 30 items at once, right?

A 30-member guild: 900 items, max.
A 50-member guild: 1500 items, max.
A 500-member guild: 15,000 items, max.

Since we can guess that a 30-member guild will likely not keep all 900 slots fully stocked (because most 500-member guilds don't either), does it really make since to make sense to make public guild traders available to people who can't possibly list even a thousand items at once?

I'd be fine with giving 30-member guilds access to the private guild-only store. That gives them access to some sales.

I just don't think it makes sense to give 30-member guilds access to a public spot when they can't possibly list many items. Let the small 50-member guilds have more public trader spots to compete for.

I see your point and understand the math. I guess its the way I look at guild traders and the trading system.

For example, when I go to traders, I'm looking for a specific item (I don't randomly look at traders just to see what they have to offer), I use the drop down menus/choices (I forget what they're called) to see if that trader has that item, if they don't, I move on, if they do, I make a note on the cost and move on to see if I can find a better price. I rarely go to the single traders by the wayshrines because it take a lot of time just to visit all the traders in each region.

I was just thinking it would be more attractive for both the shopper and the guilds if there were a couple more traders at those wayshrines and a way for smaller/young guilds to get a public trader.

I belong to a semi-large trading guild, a couple small guilds and I've had my own guild, playing all aspects of the game, housing, group PvE, Trials, pretty much the whole gammit, ESO is a cool game. I think players would benefit by having greater accessibility to items by having more traders. I also believe the by having more traders the economy over all would benefit, I am of the mindset that more competition brings in better prices and more opportunities.

I respect your opinion and appreciate your feedback.

Cheers!