ZOS about the guild trader system

Castagere

Have you seen the prices for items on this system of yours that was better than having a real-world AH? Last night was the kicker for me. Rings selling for over 300k. Will you please say something about this system of yours?

redspecter23

What makes you think that a global auction house would lead to better prices on this ring?

ZOS doesn't tell players what to post items for. Players do that.

Just because it's posted for that price, it doesn't mean it's worth that much. It also doesn't mean it isn't worth that much.

Your argument is, Ring is too much, therefore the guild trader system is bad. I'm not quite seeing the logic in that statement.

hafgood

Can you not farm this ring yourself? You don't state what ring so no one has any idea whether they may have one they could offer for less. Nor do you state platform as it could be a platform / server specific issue.

Finally why would it be cheaper in an auction house? Player sets price in both auction house and guild trader. If player thinks ring is worth 300k then player sets price as 300k, place of sale is irrelevant.

FluffWit

Jewelery price caps out just under cost to upgrade. On psn that's around 300k.

It's pretty rare something gets that high, last one I noticed was Pariah jewelery like 6 months back during the bombing meta in pvp.

wolfie1.0.

All items (except items that have been removed from the loot tables) that can be sold or traded in game can be obtained in game as long as you are willing to invest the time needed to obtain said item. If you don't wish to invest said time, then you will have to trade/purchase said item(s) from someone who did invest the needed time, according to what you both agree to be an equitable value. If you don't agree with said price you can choose not to purchase and find someone else who may come down to your level. If you can't find someone then you will either need to increase your offering, or invest the time to obtain it yourself.

Merlin13KAGL

Selling or posted? So many of the TTC links I see in chat fail to differentiate between these two things.

It's like the snowball buddy runebox someone has listed for 1 million+. Doesn't mean they're going to get that, and kudos to them if they do.

Amottica

redspecter23 wrote: »

What makes you think that a global auction house would lead to better prices on this ring?

ZOS doesn't tell players what to post items for. Players do that.

Just because it's posted for that price, it doesn't mean it's worth that much. It also doesn't mean it isn't worth that much.

Your argument is, Ring is too much, therefore the guild trader system is bad. I'm not quite seeing the logic in that statement.

Some very good points here. Nothing sells unless two people agree on the price. Many players on AH systems list items for way higher than someone will buy it in hopes they will get lucky. So no reason to think that will not happen where which is likely what the example provided is.

Dolphinsgal

I've played games with an auction house and not individual traders, there are pros and cons to both. That said I personally like the individual traders over an auction house. Auction format is best for buyers but not sellers, sellers usually end up s.o.l. however both ways you need a seller willing to sell at a certain price and someone willing to purchase said items at that price. Individual traders gives a bit more competitive format.

tenryuta

you want a good centralized trader like most mmos, metoo.. oh, me too, and having a smart price range and price history would be needed along with it.

[every guild store owner]:"but what about mah guild trader spot in town?!?!?!"
answer:guild house portals to a house voted among members as a guild house

JKorr

Castagere wrote: »

Have you seen the prices for items on this system of yours that was better than having a real-world AH? Last night was the kicker for me. Rings selling for over 300k. Will you please say something about this system of yours?

um...What exactly are they supposed to do about "this system"?

ZOS: Hey, players. Due to people crying that rare, hard to get, really have to grind and sacrifice to the Gremlins of RNG to get items are way too expensive, NO ONE is allowed to set their own price for them. The DIVINES have DECREED A NEW LAW; all really rare hard to get items now must be priced at 10 gold. All that work and effort you put in to get it doesn't matter. Ten gold.

Outraged players who wanted to sell rare hard to get items: AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!! :cue torches, pitchforks, barrels of tar and feathers:

You know, if someone puts an item up for an outrageous price, and no one thinks it is worth that price, no one buys it. The seller gets it back and has to relist it. Doesn't matter if it's a worldwide auction house, or ZOS's trader system. I've put stuff up with a too high price, and when it expired because no one bought it, I realized I screwed up, and relisted at a lower price, and the stuff :gasp: sold. On the other hand, because Aetherial Dust doesn't fall like rain or Ta runes, I listed that at a reasonable high price, and it was sold before I logged out of that session. Pretty sure the worldwide auction house would have been a detriment instead of a bonus in that case.

Fennwitty

I recommend not searching for Powerful Assault ice staves or rare furniture recipes if 300k is shocking.

FlopsyPrince

Dolphinsgal wrote: »

I've played games with an auction house and not individual traders, there are pros and cons to both. That said I personally like the individual traders over an auction house. Auction format is best for buyers but not sellers, sellers usually end up s.o.l. however both ways you need a seller willing to sell at a certain price and someone willing to purchase said items at that price. Individual traders gives a bit more competitive format.

I would strongly disagree with that. I liked the central AH in WoW, for example, as a seller because I could know what something would likely sell for and could know that everyone would see it. Most prices also got pushed down because of it.

The MAJOR flaw with the current system (even with TTC which I know have because I moved to the TTC) is that it can be almost impossible to find something in the first place.

I am spending most of my time now farming skyshards for all my alts and I want to get back into questing and such, so running around from guild vendor to guild vendor is a complete waste of my game time. The TTC listings are almost always sold out when I get there, so why bother?

The current system could work better if ZOS gave an in-game "here's what is available and where" list. It would even be a play feature for some who would run around buying the items that are low priced to relist them. At least I would know where to go to get what I want at a reasonable price.

Saying "you can just farm it" is unrealistic. Anyone ever tried to farm nirnhoned trait material? While I would get a lot of other mats, it is not worthwhile in general and it is much better to buy it from guild traders than to try and farm it myself. I rarely buy it though and I only check a few traders (my guilds and the ones in Alinor for the most part), so I am not getting the optimal prices, but I can usually find the pieces I need for research. A Central AH would even help there, but it would be more valuable when I am looking to outfit a new or changing level 50 and could find the pieces I need. They might not be at a good price (for me), but at least I would know that quickly, not after spending far too much time running around to look or wasting time looking for the lower priced (not dirt cheap) listings TTC shows.

I don't expect anything to change in this area, but some of you should really try to understand the views of others and realize that the current system has serious drawbacks for those who don't make money by flipping or selling above what is normal. The problems were even worse on the PS4 when I was there. I moved to the PC for Lazy Crafter and Harvest Map, but this problem is still there for the most part.

Yeah, the current system is great for some of you, but it is not for many others of us. That is the main point. No one will be convinced to change views, but know the arguments against the current system have merit as well.

FlopsyPrince

NOTE: I have no problem with things selling for whatever the market will bear. I just want that information to be easier to find and spread, including location.

I strongly oppose those who claim "price gouging" and such (in game and almost always in real life. That is a completely separate issue however.

Fennwitty

The issue is largely the inflation on PC though. There's only one effective gold sink in the game at this point, and that's trader bids.

Many items you can trace 100-300% inflation per year. Because many players have that much money floating around -- and because ZoS keeps giving us more gold with CP and Companion perks.

NerfSeige

Nope, it’s good for immersion to actually go to the trader and look for what you want.

And also find good deals on obscure traders.

AlnilamE

Castagere wrote: »

I am spending most of my time now farming skyshards for all my alts and I want to get back into questing and such, so running around from guild vendor to guild vendor is a complete waste of my game time. The TTC listings are almost always sold out when I get there, so why bother?

If you are questing and hunting skyshards, you can stop at the traders you find along the way and see what you have. That's what I do. I go around a lot looking for surveys and treasure maps, so I check the nearby traders in various zones.

Saying "you can just farm it" is unrealistic. Anyone ever tried to farm nirnhoned trait material? While I would get a lot of other mats, it is not worthwhile in general and it is much better to buy it from guild traders than to try and farm it myself. I rarely buy it though and I only check a few traders (my guilds and the ones in Alinor for the most part), so I am not getting the optimal prices, but I can usually find the pieces I need for research. A Central AH would even help there, but it would be more valuable when I am looking to outfit a new or changing level 50 and could find the pieces I need. They might not be at a good price (for me), but at least I would know that quickly, not after spending far too much time running around to look or wasting time looking for the lower priced (not dirt cheap) listings TTC shows.

Lots of people would run around Craglorn farming nirncrux. And nowadays you can also transmute items into nirnhoned and decon them for a chance at the trait stone.

As for "farm it yourself", a while ago I wanted to redo my magblade and I needed a fire staff or either BSW or Mother's Sorrow. I didn't have a BSW staff on hand, so I went to guild traders looking for a MS staff. They were selling at 80-150k depending on the quality, and that was WAY more than I was willing to pay. So I grabbed my character that was working on "loot 1000 chests" achievement and ran around Deshaan opening chests until I got the staff. It took a bit because I wasn't in a hurry, but was not an unreasonable amount of time.

I think the hardest thing to farm in this game are specific furnishing plans.

Auztinito

Honestly, I think this game's market system is largely rigged to benefit x and y is sol. Notice that if you never join a guild you lose out on selling to other players without having to shout which is a sus way to trade in any game. So, solo players are literally given motif they have no way of selling because NPC vendors won't pay anything for them mostly. Also, not to mention, it behaves like AH except it is designed to be tedious to give guilds an artificial reason of joining and to artificially inflate prices of items.

hafgood

I've played games with an Auction House, and I've played ESO.

Which system is better? Neither.

Thats right neither system is better, they both have advantages and disadvantages which I'm sure will get listed by others before this thread follows all the others on this subject into File 13.

The thing is it is what we have. It was set up this way to be different to other games, like it or hate it its what we have. You can rail against it all you want but one not going to change. Its such an intrinsic part of the game that if you were to take it out and replace it with an auction house you would be one step nearer many players unstated goal. To turn ESO into WOW.

ESO isn't WOW, it's ESO.

Learn to embrace the differences, learn to play the differences, understand that it is the differences that matter.

And if the differences are the problem then you know the solution - go play WOW.

I play ESO, I do not play WOW, I don't want to play WOW. So please understand what it is that makes this game different, and celebrate different, don't force homogenization on the game.

Jeremy

Castagere wrote: »

Have you seen the prices for items on this system of yours that was better than having a real-world AH? Last night was the kicker for me. Rings selling for over 300k. Will you please say something about this system of yours?

They like the prices higher than a global auction house. That is the only stated reason I've ever seen the developers give for why they favor the guild trader system, because it artificially inflates prices by choking off supply. Which it does.

Be prepared: because you're about to be in the crosshairs of everyone who profits off the current system. haha

BlueRaven

2 of my 5 guilds are trading guilds. The other 3 are not.

Yet all have traders. Just find a guild with people you like, more than likely they will have a trader.

As for the OP, was it a crafted ring? A drop? Maybe go get it yourself?

VaranisArano

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Dolphinsgal wrote: »

I've played games with an auction house and not individual traders, there are pros and cons to both. That said I personally like the individual traders over an auction house. Auction format is best for buyers but not sellers, sellers usually end up s.o.l. however both ways you need a seller willing to sell at a certain price and someone willing to purchase said items at that price. Individual traders gives a bit more competitive format.

I would strongly disagree with that. I liked the central AH in WoW, for example, as a seller because I could know what something would likely sell for and could know that everyone would see it. Most prices also got pushed down because of it.

And that would be why Auction Houses are usually less good for sellers.

I don't flip, but I do sell a lot of easily obtainable materials from farming raw crafting mats and Alchemy reagents. In an Auction House, not only would I be directly completing with every Tom, Richard, and Harry on on the server, but I'd also be directly competing with the bot accounts who can afford to drop their prices a lot lower before farming becomes unprofitable.

In ESO, I'm more likely to be competing with my guildmates, first and foremost, and then the people in the guild traders nearby. That's a lot better for the seller than competing with the whole server.

Now, as you say, we can argue pros and cons six ways from Sundas, so I don't expect to change anyone's mind. That particular point just stuck out to me, is all.

(Also, a large chunk of my fortune has come from farming nirnhoned trait material to sell on the Guild trader, LOL. So, yes, it IS worthwhile to farm it yourself if you have the time to run around Craglorn. But hey, thanks for maybe buying some of my stock!)

Ippokrates

The only solution i would strongly support is to create few "all zones" chat boxes dedicated to:
1. selling/ buying stuff & crowns
2. pug org
3. quasipolitical discussions that sometimes are getting quite intense in Craglorn

Then all spammers would be forced to publish there, under penalty of mute on zone chat box, and people in the zone boxes would finally have space to ask for help or advice.

Fennwitty

Ippokrates wrote: »

The only solution i would strongly support is to create few "all zones" chat boxes dedicated to:
1. selling/ buying stuff & crowns
2. pug org
3. quasipolitical discussions that sometimes are getting quite intense in Craglorn

Then all spammers would be forced to publish there, under penalty of mute on zone chat box, and people in the zone boxes would finally have space to ask for help or advice.

I'd support more channels.

The current /zone besides being a catch-all also can have issues where some players are in a different instance of the same zone, and the chat doesn't flow into all instances.

If a buy/sell channel was implemented ideally it would work across instances but even without that would be a slight improvement to QoL I think.

xilfxlegion

the system works as intended --- it is a free market.

an auction house would be lore breaking - and it would have the opposite effect you would want it to because rich people like myself would buy all the cheap stuff and sell it higher anyway.

anything you can get in a trader can be farmed if you invest the time. if you dont want to grind for it - then of course you will have to pay the price of the person that did invest the time.

freespirit

FluffWit wrote: »

Jewelery price caps out just under cost to upgrade. On psn that's around 300k.

It's pretty rare something gets that high, last one I noticed was Pariah jewelery like 6 months back during the bombing meta in pvp.

Omg, 300k to upgrade to gold? On PC-EU atm that will barely buy you one Chromium Plating they sell fast at 290k each and are quite hard to find at that price!

If you need to use Zircon Plating too, well they sell around 60k each, prices are truly crazy! 😲

So 300k for a gold ring seems reasonable all of a sudden.

AJones43865

I think most people agree that the trading system in ESO is clunky, expensive to participate in, and generally a bit inconvenient. But the system also curtails a lot of price gouging and price fixing like happens with a centralized auction house.

So I kinda feel like we should just accept the good with the bad with the system.

Auztinito

AJones43865 wrote: »

I think most people agree that the trading system in ESO is clunky, expensive to participate in, and generally a bit inconvenient. But the system also curtails a lot of price gouging and price fixing like happens with a centralized auction house.

So I kinda feel like we should just accept the good with the bad with the system.

Price fixing? You mean like deflating/inflating prices artificially or like flipping items by buying them out?
If so, they already do that with the current system. It behave no different than a AH, it’s just closed off and isolated where “buyers” have no say.

Centralized AH is like your standard capitalism with the caveat that any and everyone can partake at no cost.

Guild Trader is like the rich stock trading you see in movies where they do shady things like buy out something to flip and set a new price to misdirect others or set a new standard price that buyers have no say in.

hafgood

Buyers always have a say whether it is an AH or.guild trader, to say otherwise is complete and utter tosh.

If you don't like the price don't pay the price. Simple.

And if you don't like the price but still want it go farm it.

If buyers don't buy, sellers don't sell, sellers then have to lower their prices, especially as more of the item comes onto the market, any decent seller will see the items not selling at price A and so will list at slightly less, and so on, prices fall as more product comes to the market.

There was a recent thread from a PvPer screaming about the price fall in Timbercrow outfits. He failed to understand that many farmed it themselves as well as bought from traders and therefore prices fell.

With the ring, if its an overland set you just need to run dolmens in the zone it drops and you will have it within a day, then you just need to improve it, and that's an entirely different story, purple and gold mats cost a lot of money and so make then expensive to buy on traders.

Auztinito

hafgood wrote: »

Buyers always have a say whether it is an AH or.guild trader, to say otherwise is complete and utter tosh.

If you don't like the price don't pay the price. Simple.

And if you don't like the price but still want it go farm it.

If buyers don't buy, sellers don't sell, sellers then have to lower their prices, especially as more of the item comes onto the market, any decent seller will see the items not selling at price A and so will list at slightly less, and so on, prices fall as more product comes to the market.

There was a recent thread from a PvPer screaming about the price fall in Timbercrow outfits. He failed to understand that many farmed it themselves as well as bought from traders and therefore prices fell.

With the ring, if its an overland set you just need to run dolmens in the zone it drops and you will have it within a day, then you just need to improve it, and that's an entirely different story, purple and gold mats cost a lot of money and so make then expensive to buy on traders.

Except the only people buying are the ones with large amounts of gold. How do you farm gathering mats for alchemy or provisioning? You don’t. It’s RNG. How does one farm Antiquities without breaking their story mode progression because they need to unlock it in Greymoor zone.

Buyers have less say because the ones profiting are the ones buying whereas the rest of the players don’t buy/suck it up. If they went with an AH, you’d see cheaper items. I mean there is no stopping guilds from making something like Khajiit Motif cost 10k. Why? Guilds regularly work together to keep items overpriced or stagnant so that they can still profit off of old items to hustle other players whereas in a AH that wouldn’t happen unless an entire server agreed to do it.

hafgood

Khajiit motif on ps EU goes for like 250 to 400 gold, there is no cartel, there is no group of people getting together to fix prices. There is no way to drive the price to 10k

And the whole price fix argument falls down because of guild traders. There are a lot of small guilds with traders where people price at whatever price they want. They are not subject to any kind of price fixing. If anything they are regularly scalped for underpriced stuff for those who play the trading game to try to sell on main traders.

Yes prices in the main hubs may be more expensive but then they have higher costs.

Would an auction house solve this. Simply put no. Those with lots of money would camp the auction house and hoover up low priced items causing them to go up in price (not in value as value is relative). As has been explained many times an AH is a lot easier to manipulate than the guild trader system we have.

Look through any of the threads on the subject if you don't believe me, it's been a while since we had one but they all end the same way.

Those pro AH maintaining its the best option, those opposed maintaining the guild trader system is best. And then Zos close the thread.

Auztinito

hafgood wrote: »

Khajiit motif on ps EU goes for like 250 to 400 gold, there is no cartel, there is no group of people getting together to fix prices. There is no way to drive the price to 10k

And the whole price fix argument falls down because of guild traders. There are a lot of small guilds with traders where people price at whatever price they want. They are not subject to any kind of price fixing. If anything they are regularly scalped for underpriced stuff for those who play the trading game to try to sell on main traders.

Yes prices in the main hubs may be more expensive but then they have higher costs.

Would an auction house solve this. Simply put no. Those with lots of money would camp the auction house and hoover up low priced items causing them to go up in price (not in value as value is relative). As has been explained many times an AH is a lot easier to manipulate than the guild trader system we have.

Look through any of the threads on the subject if you don't believe me, it's been a while since we had one but they all end the same way.

Those pro AH maintaining its the best option, those opposed maintaining the guild trader system is best. And then Zos close the thread.

How is it easier to manipulate an AH opposed to this?

One is closed off and the other is open to everyone. If it was opened up, it’d take more than one person to flip and corner an item. It seriously would because it’s open to EVERYONE. Meaning supply of something won’t stop unless players stop supplying which is unlikely if you have a healthy population of new/returning players.

However, in a closed market. You’d only need 2-3 guilds at the most (Remember: We can join up to 5 guilds) to corner that area of the market on something that should be relatively cheap. Also, supply will be much slower/stop because of trends/monopolies because the market is closed off to those that would supply it.

Not to mention, fast travel cost gold so just porting to multiple places looking for something like fishing bait is going to cost you more gold and/or time literally hindering your progress.

Let’s not forget, Khajiit Motif shouldn’t even cost 250-400 gold to start with. Honestly, that should be 25-75 gold for how old it is.