ESO PVP is the worst PVP I have ever encountered in 20 years of online video games.

Raideen

Sorry, it just is.
No amount of resist, impen, health, rolling hots, can keep me alive from a stun. EVERY SINGLE TIME I get stunned, I die. Period. Break free does nothing. I just sit there and die. Shields do nothing, they get eaten through immediately.

I have tried full defensive builds...I die in 2 seconds.
I have tried full offensive builds. I die in literally .5 seconds (no, not even exaggerating)
I have tried balanced builds and its the same result. I cant kill anyone, I cant stay alive vs anyone.

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.


[Snip] Literally nothing makes sense and regardless of what I do, nothing changes. Its like my gear has no effect on anything.

and yes I know "git gud" and all that jazz, but there is literally ZERO skill in breaking free from a stun. You hit your button (I changed my keybind to a single button push) and then die. It happens 100% of the time. There is nothing else I can do. Nothing. I dont even have time to push a button.

[Edited for Bashing]

divnyi

Raideen wrote: »

Break free does nothing. I just sit there and die.

Raideen wrote: »

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.

Cyrolag things.

Raideen wrote: »

I have tried full defensive builds...I die in 2 seconds.

Full defensive build means immovability.
[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

VaranisArano

I dunno what to tell you. When I was new to PVP, it felt like I died super quick. Now my MagDK feels as tanky in light armor as I used to in full heavy armor/Plague Doctor, mostly because I know what I'm doing now.

I also can't say I've had that problem of stunned, then dead as long as I had stamina to break free followed by a dodge roll. That assumes that I'm not in a "I'm gonna die" situation like the ground floor of a keep when the enemy sweeps in.


If you do want help, rather than just venting (it's okay to vent, of course), it might help us help you to give some specifics.

What sort of builds have you tried? Was there anything you liked?

What sort of 6 attacks in one second are you seeing? Like, are we talking a duel-style fight or a gank?

Are you even getting the chance to break free or is break free not working properly?

Amottica

divnyi wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Break free does nothing. I just sit there and die.

Raideen wrote: »

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.

Cyrolag things.

Raideen wrote: »

I have tried full defensive builds...I die in 2 seconds.

Full defensive build means immovability.
[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

I agree the lag is the main culprit here. When we are dealing with fractions of a second timing even half a second of lag plus any latency from the internet causes big issues.

I understand ESO used to have a trusted client model and moved checks to the server. A lot of games have similar but it seems the faster pace combat in ESO is less friendly to this. I also wonder if some games make adjustments for the serverside checks. Just rambling.


Though I do not die a lot. Heck, the first night I ran with my guild they commented on how good I was at avoiding death. I was still leveling up my first character.

deleted221106-002999

The single largest determinant of win/lose is server ping at point of contact in ANY pvp game (shooters etc), including eso.

I suspect your character may already be dead by the time you're hitting break-free but the server hasn't got around to letting you know that.

Nerf lag. Then we can get beaten properly with skill.

Raideen

here is the thing. I live about 180 miles from teh servers (assuming they are located in Austin, PCNA). If they are in Dallas, I am within 18 miles of the servers.

I run 100 up down fiber.

I run an RTX 2080, SSD game drive, SSD primary drive. 32 ram and an i9 9900k at 4.7ghz all 8 cores.

The issue is not on my end. I dont have these issues in WOW, I dont have these issues in SWTOR. Heck playing BFV on a german server gave me less issues than I see in game.


In regards to my "skill". I am not discussing skill. I am discusssing getting globaled inside of a stun, EVERY SINGLE TIME, REGARDLESS of what I wear. Full heavy, tank gear, parriah, wizards reposte on weapons jewels, gaze of sithis with an armor shoulder...dead in a single stun. I rebound break free to a single button eliminating panic or "skill" and spamming it does not work until I am almost dead.

Funny thing. I was test dueling with my GF. She has PVE gear, 4k pen, extremely low resist and in a straight standstill fight (removing "skill" from the equation) she was beating me down. Even she could not understand it.

Raideen

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

VaranisArano

That seems bizarre that your break free isn't working well when you don't have lag...so this is maybe a dumb question: are you able to break free from NPC stuns okay?

Or do you have similar issues with breaking free from NPC stuns? Obviously NPCs or minibosses won't do as much damage unless you mess with a city guard or something, but I'm curious to know if this is a general problem with break free or not. (If you want to test in PVP conditions, try to solo a resource since the guards will stun you.)

If your girlfriend is willing to help you test duel, what happens if she just stuns you? Does the break free issue happen even when she stuns you and doesn't continue attacking?

This is gonna sound really, really dumb, but for me, break free+roll dodge works better than just break free. I dunno if that will help?

When you do duel properly, do Immovability potions help? They will render you immune to stuns for a period. (I know for me, there was a period in Cyrodiil when everyone used CC and I popped Immovability pots like candy. In a battle, you use it right before moving into an skirmish for the best uptime.)


Sorry if this seems like I'm doubting you, but I've never known anyone to have this issue with not being able to break free consistently (absent lag, anyway) or dying every time they get stunned, and that's with being in a PVP guild. So I'm really curious as to what's going on!

Rohamad_Ali

https://youtu.be/9tnRXbeLlZI"]https://youtu.be/9tnRXbeLlZI[/Vidl]

Raideen

I can break free from NPCs all day long, first push. When I enter PVP though, I have to spam some abilities.

BTW, I just got killed in 3 seconds inside of Absorbtion field from full health.

NerfSeige

Raideen wrote: »

Funny thing. I was test dueling with my GF. She has PVE gear, 4k pen, extremely low resist and in a straight standstill fight (removing "skill" from the equation) she was beating me down. Even she could not understand it.

So if you can't kill a pve build before it bursts you down, it's a learn to play issue dude. Of course they hit harder but you gotta keep your buffs and healing up AND apply pressure.

Theignson

I assume you are new to eso pvp?

If so, imo the first thing to do is learn how to survive more than a few seconds. For example, sorcs arent the tankiest characters. Try a stam DK. They are super tanky now. Try making a character with tons of resource regen and healing and see if you can survive. You wont be able to kill anything, but first things first. Try to break up their offense with your own stuns/roots.

If stuns are bothering you, try snow treaders, or immovable potions when you enter combat.

Is one player killing you or is it a group? If you are trying to play against a group of trolls in coms, they will destroy the best players very quickly, because they all focus you.

Get the addon . Combat Metrics, and review your fights. Who is killing you, and how? Is it a brst from a Mag sorc, or necro, or warden?

Most players find that if they can learn to survive they will then improve over time and can try other builds

Brrrofski

Lag does make break free not work very responsively.

But as to dying that quick, it sounds like you need to improve on something, because if most people made a "fully defensive" build, you'd need an army to take them down.

Luede

stats didnt help to survive, to know what to do helps and obviously you don't know.

techyeshic

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

How are you getting that high of crit resist? Are you using transmutation set? I'd be curious to see the actual build over stats just printed in text; but even with those stats; your heals are probably very weak.

I don't have that much resesists and ran around laughing waiting for a blood port as 20 players were hitting me. Died basically as I finally couldn't keep all buffs up and heal while running at the same time with all the stuff flying in

Rhaegar75

I agree with most of the suggestions that have already been flagged.

Go beyond the numbers and get to know your class well and whether it fits your PvP style/preference.

Check what kills you or what gets you to lose fights that may instead be manageable: that's a first step towards finding a counter move that matches your playstyle.

What about mobility and LoS? You play Sorcs which are the kings/queens of mobility and speed: are you using this variable?

In terms of skills I have to say that ESO allows skilled players to emerge: of course many players tend to follow FoTM classes and builds but you will meet some truly amazing PvPers too (sadly i'm not one of them). Talk to them, learn from them. Maybe you can even practise with them. L2P is not juts a trite comment: it really helps...definitely helped me!

Brrrofski

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but it must be how you're playing it.

Give me those stats on a mag sorc and I'm not dying unless there's a LOT of hard hitting players on me.

I run with way less defence on mine and I'm already difficult to kill.

gariondavey

Please post some videos of this. I don't have as good of a computer, use Wi-Fi, located in Canada (further from servers) and I will tank a whole team in bgs for 15 seconds on my stam dk using 7th legion + bloodspawn + champion of the hist + full sturdy + usage of shield ults or corrosive

If I get stunned I can often die in that stun unless I have all buffs + vigor up.

If I had the tanky stats you did I would be even harder to kill.

Please provide some clips as this seems kind of strange.

paulychan

I started off in pvp land concerned with stuff like pen and super high resists. after I learned when to block/roll/los/jump/stay out of kill zones and keep up pressure, I started getting better and worried less about some things and found a build that mostly works for my style of play.

some stuns cannot be blocked, and they hurt. They hurt a lot. I run immovability pots and poisons and slot RAT. Those all help vs CC if you have good timing.

Lag is your worst enemy. Lag and yes, l2p. That was the case for me anyways. Also, not joining a huge party and taking on small groups solo helped. I get smashed and bruised and beaten but once in a while I wipe a small crew and it feels so good when you finally do. I learned what it means to have people proc off me and set me up. I quit chasing squirrels into the badgers den... I GG... mostly

I went from never gaining AP to tier 3 toons rather quickly.

At the end of the day though, Lag wins. not a build, not skill, lag.

Dorkener

To start, keep your buffs and pro-active heals up. Armor and SD/WD buff at all times, HoTs when enemies are nearby. The next big thing is using active defense to avoid getting pinned down in an unfavorable position in the first place - dodge rolling, selective blocking, using LoS. And then when you do inevitably get CCed, there are usually right and wrong responses, depending on the situation - this just comes down to experience. For example, yes, break free straight into dodge roll will let you avoid a follow up attack, and is the "right" thing to do ~70% of the time - but if it's a DW stam DK fossilizing you at ~50% HP, you're just going to get spin-to-winned or KOd with an undodgeable leap.

Anyway, with the stated stats, you should not be dying in 2 secs unless completely out of resources, or getting plowed by 5+ people in an open field.

SkaraMinoc

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

One of my Mag Sorc PvP builds has 23k spell penetration w/ 6k spell power. With Malacath I'll do 25k damage in less than 1 second against 40k spell resist. Burst sync with Power Overload + Haunting Curse + Crystal Frag proc combo and then finish you with a Streak + Endless Fury. To give you an idea of the PvE equivalent, on a 6 mil dummy I burst ~80k damage in 1s.

Are you block streaking / healing? If not, you should get in the habit of using block. It's stronger than any set in the game.

VaranisArano

Raideen wrote: »

I can break free from NPCs all day long, first push. When I enter PVP though, I have to spam some abilities.

BTW, I just got killed in 3 seconds inside of Absorbtion field from full health.

Huh, that's interesting. I will say that it's not uncommon for many players to have to spam some skills in PVP even when PVE performs fine. I'm one of them. The performance problems that PVP has are really a different level from PVE. So that's an adjustment that a lot of PVPers, including me, learn to make.

And you gotta get out of the Negates.

Like, I run a MagDK healer, right? If a negate goes down and my teammate isn't saying "My negate" in voice chat, I'm rolling dodging out of that bubble immediately. If the team isn't under immediate pressure, maybe I'll throw a Vigor first to cover our retreat and then get out.

But as a mag player, Negate is a "Get out!" situation. If I stay inside? I'm dead too.

Why? Because unlike the NPC enemies who use Negates, a human opponent knows that being in a Negate strips most of my offense and defensive options, and should immediately capitalize on my weakness with way more incoming damage than any NPC. That's why priority one is "Get out!" A Negate coming down should be a prelude to massive incoming damage, and I need to get out of the way so I can survive and then respond.

Standing in PVE Negates? Whatever.
Standing in PVP Negates? Death.


For what it's worth, if you are just trying out different builds and not spending much time with them to learn how to play them effectively, I'm not surprised that none of them are helping.

That was my experience too. I need to practice with a build for quite a while before I feel like I'm really getting the hang of it, and then I start to see improvements in how I play.

Nemeliom

techyeshic wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

How are you getting that high of crit resist? Are you using transmutation set? I'd be curious to see the actual build over stats just printed in text; but even with those stats; your heals are probably very weak.

I don't have that much resesists and ran around laughing waiting for a blood port as 20 players were hitting me. Died basically as I finally couldn't keep all buffs up and heal while running at the same time with all the stuff flying in

Critical reposte:
- (2 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
- (4 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
-
Impregnable armor:
- 5 items: Adds 1650 Critical Resistance

Champion points:
- Resilience: Grants 132 Critical Resistance per stage (5 stages)

Armor trait:
- Impenetrable: 124 critical resistance per armor piece

A lot of options

Vaoh

ESO PvP is a result of two major errors by ZOS imo.

First is that the combat team has constantly shifted balance in this game *without* a clear vision for combat. Therefore, each time there has been a new combat lead (which is when we see the most drastic changes) the team will rebalance the game to fit this person’s new vision for combat. We start at the beginning of a new form of balancing instead of constantly improving on vision for combat.

Second is the increasing lag. When a simple bug is left to sit, and you ignore it as you implement new code with new bugs, those old bugs become INFINITELY more complex. ESO is now a coding nightmare which is why the “lag” can never be fixed no matter how much ZOS tries.

I think having Tier 1 rewards grant 50 Transmute stones was a very smart decision by ZOS to keep at least a tiny PvP population alive.

Casul

I miss the old reactive armor.

Dem_kitkats1

When I first started playing PvP in this game I felt the same way. I would pop in an instant. But after grinding it through and playing more I figured out what works for me. I think there's definitely a few factors that that hindered me.

1. Lag
I live in Canada, so pretty far from the servers. Constantly having to spam abilities without them firing or the inability to break free is definitely a hinderance. There are times that because of lag, the players and action that I see on my screen are not actually there anymore. So that's why it can seem like players are hitting you out of nowhere. It's because they are before you are even able to see it. So you may have to change your class and build that will be more forgiving in these circumstances.

2. Finding the right playstyle.
This was the biggest factor and the hardest for me to figure out. I found that it didn't matter what gear I had I got slaughtered because I didn't build to my strengths as a player. I had the tankiest set up and still got wrecked because it was a playstyle that didn't come naturally to me and I didn't play it well.

3. Gear.
This kind of piggybacks off of my second point. I found that gear that works for other people did not work for me at all. Finding the right gear combo that works for your playstyle is key. Trying new gear combos and builds definitely takes patience and is frustrating. There is definitely a lot of testing and tweaking involved.

Urzigurumash

Try the crafted set Undaunted Combatant. It will help you more than any other 5 piece based on the description of your issue. Also Immolator Charr, one of the new Imperial City Monster sets.

We need stuns to cut through the powerful active defense / healing.

It seems to me that over the years access to CC Immunity has grown, and this is one of the principal drivers of the so-called "Tank Meta" - but, fun is more important than anything obviously, and being CC'd every few seconds was never fun.

MentalxHammer

Consider key binding break free to the scroll wheel, this way you can perform rapid inputs ensuring you will break free.

techyeshic

Nemeliom wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

How are you getting that high of crit resist? Are you using transmutation set? I'd be curious to see the actual build over stats just printed in text; but even with those stats; your heals are probably very weak.

I don't have that much resesists and ran around laughing waiting for a blood port as 20 players were hitting me. Died basically as I finally couldn't keep all buffs up and heal while running at the same time with all the stuff flying in

Critical reposte:
- (2 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
- (4 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
-
Impregnable armor:
- 5 items: Adds 1650 Critical Resistance

Champion points:
- Resilience: Grants 132 Critical Resistance per stage (5 stages)

Armor trait:
- Impenetrable: 124 critical resistance per armor piece

A lot of options

Ok but you dedicate a set to it. How do you then get 40k armor? Then if you do that with 35k health, you pretty much have no resources.

Fhritz

Raideen wrote: »

Sorry, it just is.
No amount of resist, impen, health, rolling hots, can keep me alive from a stun. EVERY SINGLE TIME I get stunned, I die. Period. Break free does nothing. I just sit there and die. Shields do nothing, they get eaten through immediately.

I have tried full defensive builds...I die in 2 seconds.
I have tried full offensive builds. I die in literally .5 seconds (no, not even exaggerating)
I have tried balanced builds and its the same result. I cant kill anyone, I cant stay alive vs anyone.

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.


[Snip] Literally nothing makes sense and regardless of what I do, nothing changes. Its like my gear has no effect on anything.

and yes I know "git gud" and all that jazz, but there is literally ZERO skill in breaking free from a stun. You hit your button (I changed my keybind to a single button push) and then die. It happens 100% of the time. There is nothing else I can do. Nothing. I dont even have time to push a button.

[Edited for Bashing]

Cyro or BG ? Personally, even as a BG "glass canon" player, i can survive longer than that without lag (and BG arent laggy at all most of the time). I don't think your build is wrong, but in ESO pratice matters ! I sucked when i started PvP, i think i was way worse than you, but with some training and pratice I eventually ended up doing fine !

Minno

techyeshic wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

How are you getting that high of crit resist? Are you using transmutation set? I'd be curious to see the actual build over stats just printed in text; but even with those stats; your heals are probably very weak.

I don't have that much resesists and ran around laughing waiting for a blood port as 20 players were hitting me. Died basically as I finally couldn't keep all buffs up and heal while running at the same time with all the stuff flying in

Critical reposte:
- (2 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
- (4 items) Adds 424 Critical Resistance
-
Impregnable armor:
- 5 items: Adds 1650 Critical Resistance

Champion points:
- Resilience: Grants 132 Critical Resistance per stage (5 stages)

Armor trait:
- Impenetrable: 124 critical resistance per armor piece

A lot of options

Ok but you dedicate a set to it. How do you then get 40k armor? Then if you do that with 35k health, you pretty much have no resources.

trans or impreg + CP + full armor impen = that high. If you go trans route, you have double regen stats (which doesnt help since templar can rock channeled focus with ele drain to basically make regen stats obsolete.).

Been awhile since I played though. I am still getting used to 5 DLC's worth of changes lol.