Crown Crates

mickeyx

Hurbster wrote: »

So everyone who plays this game is an adult, right?


Right?

I know couple of people in game who are not even of legal age and always pestering their mom or dad to buy them 100 of crates.

StevieKingslayer

tbh, it wouldnt be an issue if we could EARN the stuff that comes in the crates (skins/mounts) etc, like most other mmos. Instead we get....a sunspire mount. Which is unobtainable for 90% of the games players, if you believe their commentary about how many people do the harder content.

I'll be fine with the crown crates existence when people can EARN more alternatives in game as REASONABLE levels.

DaiKahn

Kwoung wrote: »

I would hazard to say, if ZOS actually put a dollar figure on those items, based on what they normally make off them via the crate method... folks would flip out. What's the average number of crates to collect enough gems to buy a radiant apex.. like 600 crates or something? Doesn't that translate into about $1400 to simply buy one? I can just imagine the posts here if they put those up for sale for $1400 each. Although, at least then collecting endeavors for a year may seem worthwhile.

From my experience, it's a lot less crates than 600 to have enough gems to buy a radiant apex mount. 600 crates would be more like all the radiant apex mounts plus more, due to that you will more than likely get a radiant apex mount from that many crates (again, in my experience )

Exiled_Messenger

DaiKahn wrote: »

From my experience, it's a lot less crates than 600 to have enough gems to buy a radiant apex mount. 600 crates would be more like all the radiant apex mounts plus more, due to that you will more than likely get a radiant apex mount from that many crates (again, in my experience )

For the Celestial Crown Crates, I purchased 120 crates (40,000 Crowns). I received one Apex mount and needed 1,280 Crown Gems to purchase the Apex costume and skin, plus various items from the lower tiers. I was able to make that (though I did already have all of the previously released items), so you should be able to purchase the cheapest Radiant Apex mount with around $300.

Wolfshead

OP has a point but I have to say that OP is missing one big fact in all this that is you can sell all item you get in Crown Crates and you get gems which you can buy the item you really are after and also as OP says we have the Endeavor system so who is really loser here the player base or ZoS for you need 30 or 45 crates to get enough gems to buy the item you want (i can be off with how many crates you need it was long time I buy crown crates)

DreamyLu

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't buy them, but if someone else wants to I don't really care.

Exactly. Why bothering at all? Those who like RNG are happy to have them, and the others don't need to care since nobody is forced to them.

TelvanniWizard

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. That leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that they lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

Then, there is the added problem of availability, as has been mentioned before. If things rotated weekly, for example, the problem wouldn´t be as bad, because there would be more chances to get what you want, may it be with gold, gems or endeavours. With this FOMO, the limited availability doubles the problem, for you can be playing for years and not get a chance to get what you want. So the customer is manipulated into buying "now". And this is evident, as shown by many studies regarding FOMO. The use of this tactic and its objective is real and proved.

A third part of the problem is that you get stuck with unwanted rewards; rewards that clutter your collections tab. They could be sold or traded, like in SWTOR, and both players would win. You get gold and get rid of that ugly camel, the player thats buys it gets that mount he had desired for so long. But no, instead of that convenient system, you are stuck with it. All to maximize revenue, of course. Disgusting, imho, for a bussinesd has to make money, but also be honest and offer a good product, withouth selling you things you don't want.

Finally, there is the moral problem, that connects directly with the first point, adding morality and predation. It is indeed subjective, but many studies indicate that gambling is perjudicial, both for your money and your mental health, and I think is it is extremely low to use such a bussiness tactic when a permanent store with flat prices could also make a good money for ZOS.

Crates may never go, but they could be vastly improved, with sellable unwanted rewards (or turn everything into gems, for some time after recieving it), weekly rotations, etc.

For those of you who read spanish, here is a very recent (today´s) article about loot boxes:

https://elpais.com/tecnologia/2021-12-10/las-recompensas-aleatorias-de-los-videojuegos-provocan-un-efecto-similar-al-uso-de-tragaperras.html

Edit. Grammar

NerfSeige

mickeyx wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

So everyone who plays this game is an adult, right?


Right?

I know couple of people in game who are not even of legal age and always pestering their mom or dad to buy them 100 of crates.

Bro I’m weirded out by this, you know underage people playing the game and not reporting them? Lots of racist and [snip] stuff on zone chat sometimes.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Kwoung

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. that leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that theu lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

Then, there is the added problem of availability, as has been mentioned before. If things rotated weekly, for example, the problem wouldn´t be as bad, because there would be more chances to get what you wanr, may it be with gold, gems or endeavours. With this FOMO, the limited availability doubles the problem, for you can be playing for years and not get a chance to get what you want.

A third part of the problem is that you get stuck with unwanted rewards; rewards that clutter your collections tab. They could be sold or traded, like in SWTOR, and both players would win. You get gold and get rid of that ugly camel, the players thats buys it gets that mount he had desired for so long. But instead, you are stuck with it.

Finally, there is the moral problem, that connects directly with the first point, morality and predation. It is indeed subjective, but many studies indicate that gambling is perjudicial, both for your money and your mental health, and I think is it is extremely low to use such a bussiness tactic when a permanent store with flat prices could also make a good money for ZOS.

Crates may never go, but they could be vastly improved, with sellable unwanted rewards (or turn everything into gems, for some time after recieving it), weekly rotations, etc.

For those of you who read spanish, here is a very recent (today´s) article about loot boxes:

https://elpais.com/tecnologia/2021-12-10/las-recompensas-aleatorias-de-los-videojuegos-provocan-un-efecto-similar-al-uso-de-tragaperras.html

Good article, Google translated it for me. I would be happy if I could simply decon every item in a crate to gems instead of collecting it automatically, as that is all I usually want out of them... being as I am very aware of the chance at getting the single item that caught my eye... which is never a radiant apex, usually just some outfit I can get for 40-100 gems. I get what ZOS is doing, especially the FOMO bit, which I find crummy of them to do.

IF I could decon it all to gems, and there was a floor on the bare minimum gems you would get per crate, so everyone knows going in what to expect in the worst case scenario, and I still had a chance at looting the item I wanted without spending the gems... I think it would be considerably more palatable system.

daim

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. That leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that they lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

Then, there is the added problem of availability, as has been mentioned before. If things rotated weekly, for example, the problem wouldn´t be as bad, because there would be more chances to get what you want, may it be with gold, gems or endeavours. With this FOMO, the limited availability doubles the problem, for you can be playing for years and not get a chance to get what you want. So the customer is manipulated into buying "now". And this is evident, as shown by many studies regarding FOMO. The use of this tactic and its objective is real and proved.

A third part of the problem is that you get stuck with unwanted rewards; rewards that clutter your collections tab. They could be sold or traded, like in SWTOR, and both players would win. You get gold and get rid of that ugly camel, the player thats buys it gets that mount he had desired for so long. But no, instead of that convenient system, you are stuck with it. All to maximize revenue, of course. Disgusting, imho, for a bussinesd has to make money, but also be honest and offer a good product, withouth selling you things you don't want.

Finally, there is the moral problem, that connects directly with the first point, adding morality and predation. It is indeed subjective, but many studies indicate that gambling is perjudicial, both for your money and your mental health, and I think is it is extremely low to use such a bussiness tactic when a permanent store with flat prices could also make a good money for ZOS.

Crates may never go, but they could be vastly improved, with sellable unwanted rewards (or turn everything into gems, for some time after recieving it), weekly rotations, etc.

For those of you who read spanish, here is a very recent (today´s) article about loot boxes:

https://elpais.com/tecnologia/2021-12-10/las-recompensas-aleatorias-de-los-videojuegos-provocan-un-efecto-similar-al-uso-de-tragaperras.html

Edit. Grammar

This should be the second post of this thread after OP. Excellent post.

Rezdayn

Obligatory video link which destroys anyone who thinks microtransactions are okay... enjoy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce5CDrq4dGg

LalMirchi

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. That leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that they lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

Then, there is the added problem of availability, as has been mentioned before. If things rotated weekly, for example, the problem wouldn´t be as bad, because there would be more chances to get what you want, may it be with gold, gems or endeavours. With this FOMO, the limited availability doubles the problem, for you can be playing for years and not get a chance to get what you want. So the customer is manipulated into buying "now". And this is evident, as shown by many studies regarding FOMO. The use of this tactic and its objective is real and proved.

A third part of the problem is that you get stuck with unwanted rewards; rewards that clutter your collections tab. They could be sold or traded, like in SWTOR, and both players would win. You get gold and get rid of that ugly camel, the player thats buys it gets that mount he had desired for so long. But no, instead of that convenient system, you are stuck with it. All to maximize revenue, of course. Disgusting, imho, for a bussinesd has to make money, but also be honest and offer a good product, withouth selling you things you don't want.

Finally, there is the moral problem, that connects directly with the first point, adding morality and predation. It is indeed subjective, but many studies indicate that gambling is perjudicial, both for your money and your mental health, and I think is it is extremely low to use such a bussiness tactic when a permanent store with flat prices could also make a good money for ZOS.

Crates may never go, but they could be vastly improved, with sellable unwanted rewards (or turn everything into gems, for some time after recieving it), weekly rotations, etc.

For those of you who read spanish, here is a very recent (today´s) article about loot boxes:

https://elpais.com/tecnologia/2021-12-10/las-recompensas-aleatorias-de-los-videojuegos-provocan-un-efecto-similar-al-uso-de-tragaperras.html

Edit. Grammar

An excellent and informative post. I too have read the linked article via Google Translate.

Personally I have never bought crates as I abhor this practise. I have however opened twitch drop crates.

Legislation is coming in many countries and is very welcome, until then I will continue to boycott this predatory behaviour.

DaiKahn

Exiled_Messenger wrote: »

For the Celestial Crown Crates, I purchased 120 crates (40,000 Crowns). I received one Apex mount and needed 1,280 Crown Gems to purchase the Apex costume and skin, plus various items from the lower tiers. I was able to make that (though I did already have all of the previously released items), so you should be able to purchase the cheapest Radiant Apex mount with around $300.

The Celestial Crates for me: I got 120-150 crates. Can't remember exactly but will err on the higher side (150)

I got most things in the crates, including three Apex mounts (Wolf, Horse, and Bear), one double up of an Apex mount (Wolf), the Celestial Ram, and used the resulting converted gems to buy the Starchaser Senche. I started of with maybe 100 gems and now have 1

DaiKahn

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. That leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that they lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

Bit of a broad generalisation there, don't you think? I buy crates and by your definition I lack self-control, have no sense, and indirectly are hurting others in the playerbase who don't want to buy or can't afford/"budget" for the crates

It's not true though. If I like the contents of a crate, I start saving. Crates are around for what, three months? That's more than enough time to put some money aside every week for the maximum of 150 crates I'll buy (if I like the crates)

Why are my choices so bothersome to you and many others here? I accept you don't like crates; good for you, honestly. I accept people don't want to buy them or support them. Yep, good for them as well; we all have principles we adhere to and I more than respect that. What I don't appreciate is the cult-like demonisation of people that can budget for the crates, that have the money for the crates, or whatever else way they are able to get the crates they would like

And yes, I know people will say, "But gambling! Save the innocent! Save those that have no willpower!" but I really don't think there are that many people out there suddenly struggling financially after buying a large number of crates

Then, there is the added problem of availability, as has been mentioned before. If things rotated weekly, for example, the problem wouldn´t be as bad, because there would be more chances to get what you want, may it be with gold, gems or endeavours. With this FOMO, the limited availability doubles the problem, for you can be playing for years and not get a chance to get what you want. So the customer is manipulated into buying "now". And this is evident, as shown by many studies regarding FOMO. The use of this tactic and its objective is real and proved.

This I more than agree with. FOMO is an amazing marketing tactic that works, but I really think it needs to go. Also waiting years hoping an item is returning is not nice for the playerbase. You have to realise though, businesses of all sorts do this. Does it make it right? No, not at all, but companies will always look to maximise profits. Remember, ZOS aren't our friends, they're a business making sure they can continue

mickeyx

NerfSeige wrote: »

mickeyx wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

So everyone who plays this game is an adult, right?


Right?

I know couple of people in game who are not even of legal age and always pestering their mom or dad to buy them 100 of crates.

Bro I’m weirded out by this, you know underage people playing the game and not reporting them? Lots of racist and [snip] stuff on zone chat sometimes.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Weirded out that 16-year-old play this game or that i don't report them? i don't see why i should report them. That's not my business.

TelvanniWizard

DaiKahn wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. That leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that they lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

Bit of a broad generalisation there, don't you think? I buy crates and by your definition I lack self-control, have no sense, and indirectly are hurting others in the playerbase who don't want to buy or can't afford/"budget" for the crates

It's not true though. If I like the contents of a crate, I start saving. Crates are around for what, three months? That's more than enough time to put some money aside every week for the maximum of 150 crates I'll buy (if I like the crates)

Why are my choices so bothersome to you and many others here? I accept you don't like crates; good for you, honestly. I accept people don't want to buy them or support them. Yep, good for them as well; we all have principles we adhere to and I more than respect that. What I don't appreciate is the cult-like demonisation of people that can budget for the crates, that have the money for the crates, or whatever else way they are able to get the crates they would like

And yes, I know people will say, "But gambling! Save the innocent! Save those that have no willpower!" but I really don't think there are that many people out there suddenly struggling financially after buying a large number of crates

Then, there is the added problem of availability, as has been mentioned before. If things rotated weekly, for example, the problem wouldn´t be as bad, because there would be more chances to get what you want, may it be with gold, gems or endeavours. With this FOMO, the limited availability doubles the problem, for you can be playing for years and not get a chance to get what you want. So the customer is manipulated into buying "now". And this is evident, as shown by many studies regarding FOMO. The use of this tactic and its objective is real and proved.

This I more than agree with. FOMO is an amazing marketing tactic that works, but I really think it needs to go. Also waiting years hoping an item is returning is not nice for the playerbase. You have to realise though, businesses of all sorts do this. Does it make it right? No, not at all, but companies will always look to maximise profits. Remember, ZOS aren't our friends, they're a business making sure they can continue

About the generalisation, yes, you are right, my first point was indeed a generalisation. If we take a closer look at the people that buy crates, we´ll see that many have different buying behaviours. Still, my point holds, imo, because people like you, who buy crates ocasionally, and don´t tend to do so in bulk (even though you say you can even buy up to 150, and I think that 150 is excessive in every regard, but to each their own), aren´t either the target audience for this product, because, even if they buy crates, they do so with some moderation and sensibility, considering if they like the product, the odds, etc., whereas the "whale" does it without any restraint or consideration. They buy them by many hundreds, and end up with thousands of gems, after having spend enough money to buy several new games, or a month´s worth of food. If they can afford that or not is another different question. The thing is that the ocasional buyer, or the middle, honest, average Joe player who can´t afford them or doesn´t want to gamble for a chance of getting a desired product instead of buying it directly, is completely cut out of one of the most important aspects of this casual game, wich is customization and rp.

The FOMO, of course, is just the cherry on top. If you add unavailability to gambling you end up with people who cannot find anything they want to spend their money into, or aren´t able to do so because what they want isn´t for sale, or, when it finally is, it happens to be locked behind gambling, with a potential price of hundreds of dollars, euros, etc. The fact that this bussiness model works is evident, because the people behind it aren´t fools. But I´m convinced (call me a romantic) that things could be better, with enough revenue income for the company, flowing both from whales and normal (the majority) customers, generated by a permanent store with regular updates and additions and, if needed, some extra pricy thingies for the rich to show off. Instead of the abbility to buy whatever we want whenever we want (wich happens to be today´s world seller´s motto, just look at Amazon) we are stuck with a system made to milk the whales (wheter they can sustain it or not), exclude a big part of the playerbase (for economical or moral reasons) and manipulate the reminder of players into buying the product the moment ZOS chooses to sell it, for otherwise it could not be available for years, or ever again. A sad perspective indeed, as I see it.

PizzaCat82

I can't imagine the reasons why someone would spend $400 on 150 crates, but I can absolutely say that they are well above the spending for the average and even most of the playerbase.

heaven13

It honestly seems to me that ever since endeavors came out, the drop rate on things in the crates have lowered. I get a 15-crate pack, usually with gold, once per season. It used to be that I'd have a fair amount of purples with a 2-3 gold cards. The past 2 packs I've purchased have been all blue cards, 1-3 purples, and a single gold (1 being a weapon style, 1 being a motif that has been out for almost 3 years). I don't know if the drops rates really are lower or if my luck has just been exceptionally bad for months but it puts a really bad taste in my mouth when the rewards are so horribly skewed.

Tesman85

Crown crates are not my favourite either, even though I can't summon the vehemence some have over the issue. Still, they are annoying in that the buyer can't know what he gets at what total price. If I were in ZOS's monetization department (or whatever it's called), I'd revise the system in a following way.

Everything in the crates, save the potion and scroll crud, should also be put in the Crown Store for direct buying. The catch would be that the crown items would be up for sale only as long as the crates themselves. Also, the prices would be steep. For instance, let's suppose the probability of getting any radiant apex mount would be 50 % (the number is obviously a very rough guesstimate, not calculated) when buying four 15-packs of crates. That would cost 20 000 crowns, but the crate buyer also gets a pile of other stuff for the price. So, for those who do not feel like trying their luck, the straight crown price for the radiant apex mount would be, say, 20 000 - 25 000 crowns. That would mean about the yearly crown allottment of an ESO+ customer, and this without the other potential crate wins. In essence, the buyer would pay a premium for certainty of getting what he wants at a fixed price. Of course, depending on the true crate probability the price could be even higher. The rest of the prices would be, of course, scaled downwards from that. And whenever the particular crate season would come again for sale, so would the option for direct buying.

This would catch several birds at once marketing-wise. First, the system would still play on the FOMO. Don't buy on time, miss out. Secondly, there are people who won't buy crates because they dislike the randomness. Some of those would still pay for the items in direct purchase. Thirdly, steep straight purchase prices would still largely preserve the aura of exclusivity the radiant apex stuff has, which would please the players who care about status symbols. Fourthly, it would be an opportunity for an "evening milking". Some people buy a ton of crates and still don't get what they want, nor enough gems to purchase the thing. Normally they would just get burned out on buying the crates and leave it at that (at least until the next season). But if the desired things were directly available, even though at an inflated price, many of those people would just cough up money for crowns and buy the thing they want, on top of the money already spent on crates. All in all, I could see an increase in crown purchases which could more than offset any decreases in crate purchases.

The system outlined above would be both profitable for ZOS and more customer-friendly than the current system. So, for me this sounds like the best of both worlds. How about it, ZOS?

TelvanniWizard

@Tesman85 that´s another perfectly valid idea of how the system could be improved! It´s very far from perfect, but at least would give the chance to buy directly.

umagon

I don’t understand why zos even keeps the crown crate system if they really have ~20million players playing eso. It would make more sense to sell the apex awards for strait cash at $3-$5 with no crown option. Because if the price is lower the turn around for sales would be higher. And with a ~20million player base even if they could get 30% of those players to purchase something zos would still be making millions per month. They would not have to deal with legal issues in some countries involving the crates and then they wouldn’t have to lose money letting those items go for free on the endeavor system.

Tesman85

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

@Tesman85 that´s another perfectly valid idea of how the system could be improved! It´s very far from perfect, but at least would give the chance to buy directly.

Thanks! Yes, from a consumer's viewpoint it wouldn't still be that excellent, but we have to be realistic. ZOS has to make its profit, otherwise it won't do anything to the system. So I thought it from their viewpoint, how that profit could be still had while being slightly more customer-friendly at the same time. It might be that EU or US laws or other regulation will force them to change the system in some time-frame, but it would be nice to see something more palatable even earlier.

umagon wrote: »

I don’t understand why zos even keeps the crown crate system if they really have ~20million players playing eso. It would make more sense to sell the apex awards for strait cash at $3-$5 with no crown option. Because if the price is lower the turn around for sales would be higher. And with a ~20million player base even if they could get 30% of those players to purchase something zos would still be making millions per month. They would not have to deal with legal issues in some countries involving the crates and then they wouldn’t have to lose money letting those items go for free on the endeavor system.

Well, they must have calculated that the current system is more profitable. There may be 20 million players, yes, but how many of them pay anything besides the cost of the game? How many of them are long-term players that could make repeat purchases of store stuff? And so on.

I remember reading that something like 2 % of the playerbase generates the majority of revenue in online games. Those people are the so-called whales. On average they seem to like exclusive things, like rare and showy mounts. This same lure of exclusivity applies to average persons to some degree, too. Just see how people pay ridiculous prices for, say, a bag that has nothing special to it but the name of the manufacturer. So if those radiant apex mounts were directly buyable with a cost of only 5 $, they probably wouldn't generate as much money as now when they are very rare random crate drops. They just wouldn't raise the fervour they do now.

So, sadly, it seems that whaling is the most profitable strategy across the industry. ZOS is even far from the worst in this regard IMHO. The best we can hope is that some regulation curbs the worst aspects, or the companies forestall that regulation by showing some self-restraint.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

The law will catch up with gambling. Wouldn't be an issue if you could purchase them directly.

Stopnaggin

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

not to be rude, but quite frankly tired of seeing these threads, if someone wants to gamble in hopes of getting a cool, item, that's entirely up tp them
heck the craft bag is a predatory practice to force us to sub when you think about it

The craft bag is purchased directly from having an ESO plus membership that yields multiple benefits. This is exactly what I am for

A crate is locking specific items behind a paywall with only a CHANCE of getting it

[snip]

ESO+ gives you access to a lot of things sure but you HAVE to use IRL funds to gain access to it's contents there isn't a way around this. It also gives you a clear in game advantage over players that don't sub in the form of a major inventory access.

Whereas right now you can buy crown crates with either irl funds or in game gold. Further you can bypass the gambling part through seals of endeavors or with stored crown gems that you can farm from streams or prior boxes.

Both are predatory in nature and drive you to certain activities. How much is opinion, but they are that way.

[edited to remove quote]

There is a leg up with +, as it should be when subbing for whatever reason. The craft bag is almost, invaluable. But it sure isn't predatory. You can find alternate methods to store crafting materials. Also where do you think all the crafting materials code is stored? There has to be a certain amount of space on the server for each player that has the craft bag. That requires hardware. So there should be a cost associated with it.
The crates are just cosmetic crap, yes it could be considered predatory. In fact this season of crates has been the most terrible RNG I've seen. I personally don't consider it predatory. With that said they should offer a lot of that stuff for just the crowns themselves. People have different priorities, some love the character creation and look of their toons. So yes locking "Cool" outfits behind crates is a blow to them. Other people don't care because they are more interested in PVP, or trials etc. Point is for everyone that hates the crate system, there are just as many that love it. The endeavor system was a step in the right direction, but the cost of some of that stuff doesn't add up to me. 9 months worth of endeavors to get a Radiant Apex mount is severely excessive IMO. I think it was put in when MS said there had to be a way to get the crowns crate stuff for "free". But the amount of time it would take to gain enough seals is far to long.

etchedpixels

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

The problem with crates is a complex one. Firstly, they aren´t designed for the middle class player, but for the whales. That leaves a big portion of the playerbase without those sweet cosmetics we all love. The thing is that whales aren´t necessarily rich, just people willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars, euros, etc. in crates. They might be rich or poor. The thing that makes them whales is that they lack self-control and, what is more important imo, the sensibility to see that crates are a bad practice that damages the whole playerbase, both the whales (who are being milked) and the sensible customers (who get locked out of cosmetics).

I'm sure it's not intended as that but there is a serious element of victim blaming in just describing them as "lack self-control". For some gambling is extremely addictive (as strong as many serious physical addictions) and gambling is regulated for a reason. These people didn't choose to be gambling addicts an more than someone chose to be alcoholic.

At the moment the loot crates are in many countries not being subjected to the gambling rules. If they were properly classified as gambling (or Microsoft had the guts to do the right thing) then ESO would
- Do actual age verification on crate buyers
- Make crate purchases be in actual currency and bill that purchase as gambling (many countries have 'stop' rules so problem gamblers are on a list of accounts where the bank will refuse any gambling thus helping protect them from their addiction)

There will always be a clash between rare shiny things everyone wants and price. Many of the people who want the biggest best shiniest thing want it because other people don't have it. If everyone has the blingiest sparkly mount then it's not special and the game looks ever more like a particularly sad cartoon JRPG. The same is also true of achievements - if you got Godslayer for doing Fungal Grotto it would have no meaning.

Personally I don't mind people wandering around on $500 dollar mounts if they can just buy them for crowns/cash. It's a way for them to support the game just like people who sponsor a streamer and get a credit. It's the addictive stuff which is bad.