Crown Crates

rageofodin

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

jedtb16_ESO

i don't agree. the crates are an opportunity to get cool stuff IF you choose to.

jaws343

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

Blinx

not to be rude, but quite frankly tired of seeing these threads, if someone wants to gamble in hopes of getting a cool, item, that's entirely up tp them
heck the craft bag is a predatory practice to force us to sub when you think about it

Raideen

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

emilyhyoyeon

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

but someone is still using crowns to gift the crates bought for gold

jaws343

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

There are plenty of safe options. Best of which is to find a guild who have members who are approved crown traders within the guild. Those are members who have proven to be reliable and it's within the guild best interest to ensure that those players remain so.

Jaimeh

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

This helps the perpetuation of the system, which is what the OP is against.

Now with this season we have skins bumped up to the 400 gems category (they were always 100 gems), where does it stop? At this point, if someone wants a cool collectible for their toons, they will have to look to the crates, since most of their snazzy designs are reserved for them, or for gem exlusives. And since the seals were introduced, they have both increased the number of gems for costumes, personalities, and now, skins (100 gems vs 400 gems) but they also include less things in the crates that can be converted for a higher gem turnout: they are literally limiting the gem accumulation, while increasing the gem cost. And even though seals are free, it's been well-documented that they have been descreasing over time, and they don't offer all the items in the crates for seals, just a selection--for example, this season, only one of the mounts is available for seals, so even if someone is saving their seals for, say, more than half a year (which is what would take to get a radiant), they still won't be able to get it, because the store doesn't offer it for seals.

jaws343

Jaimeh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

This helps the perpetuation of the system, which is what the OP is against.

Now with this season we have skins bumped up to the 400 gems category (they were always 100 gems), where does it stop? At this point, if someone wants a cool collectible for their toons, they will have to look to the crates, since most of their snazzy designs are reserved for them, or for gem exlusives. And since the seals were introduced, they have both increased the number of gems for costumes, personalities, and now, skins (100 gems vs 400 gems) but they also include less things in the crates that can be converted for a higher gem turnout: they are literally limiting the gem accumulation, while increasing the gem cost. And even though seals are free, it's been well-documented that they have been descreasing over time, and they don't offer all the items in the crates for seals, just a selection--for example, this season, only one of the mounts is available for seals, so even if someone is saving their seals for, say, more than half a year (which is what would take to get a radiant), they still won't be able to get it, because the store doesn't offer it for seals.

So what? Buy them or don't buy them. It's a fairly easy choice. Nothing in these crates are going to change the game in any way that isn't cosmetic. And cosmetic changes are arbitrary.

Jaimeh

jaws343 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

This helps the perpetuation of the system, which is what the OP is against.

Now with this season we have skins bumped up to the 400 gems category (they were always 100 gems), where does it stop? At this point, if someone wants a cool collectible for their toons, they will have to look to the crates, since most of their snazzy designs are reserved for them, or for gem exlusives. And since the seals were introduced, they have both increased the number of gems for costumes, personalities, and now, skins (100 gems vs 400 gems) but they also include less things in the crates that can be converted for a higher gem turnout: they are literally limiting the gem accumulation, while increasing the gem cost. And even though seals are free, it's been well-documented that they have been descreasing over time, and they don't offer all the items in the crates for seals, just a selection--for example, this season, only one of the mounts is available for seals, so even if someone is saving their seals for, say, more than half a year (which is what would take to get a radiant), they still won't be able to get it, because the store doesn't offer it for seals.

So what? Buy them or don't buy them. It's a fairly easy choice. Nothing in these crates are going to change the game in any way that isn't cosmetic. And cosmetic changes are arbitrary.

It doesn't change anything in the game, but cosmetics have always been a huge part of MMOs, and putting them behind a rigged system is a practice ripe for criticism.

Dragonnord

I don't agree with you. I like to gamble, in fact, millions and millions and millions of people in this world like to gamble too.

And as others said above, you can buy them with in-game gold if you don't want to spend real money or with endeavors and gems if you don't want to test your luck.
 

jameson71

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree with you. I like to gamble, in fact, millions and millions and millions of people in this world like to gamble too.

And as others said above, you can buy them with in-game gold if you don't want to spend real money or with endeavors and gems if you don't want to test your luck.
 

You like to gamble, and that is fine. I don't The problem to me is that certain (cosmetic) things in the game can only be attained through gambling with real life money.

Too many times I have been browsing through the crown store, looking for something I want to spend my crowns on and when I finally find something I like, it can only be purchased with crown gems. It really feels like ZOS is trying to entice me to pick up a gambling habit and spend way way more money on a (cosmetic) item than it is worth.

Raideen

jaws343 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

There are plenty of safe options. Best of which is to find a guild who have members who are approved crown traders within the guild. Those are members who have proven to be reliable and it's within the guild best interest to ensure that those players remain so.

Incorrect. There is no 100% safe and guaranteed option to exchange gold for crowns within game. ZOS will not secure that transaction and will not be held accountable. This is stated in the EULA/TOS.

wolfie1.0.

Anything that can be bought with gems can be bought with seals of endeavors. Personally I feel that gems should have been converted to Seals when seals were launched but zos wants their $$. Once seals get up to high levels you won't need to buy crates as much.

Zos will continue to have crates as long as players buy them and as long as they are in compliance with related laws. Those are the only factors that will bring change.

AlnilamE

What are crown crates? Crown crates don't exist the way I play the game.

You can do it too.

KhajiitLivesMatter

jameson71 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree with you. I like to gamble, in fact, millions and millions and millions of people in this world like to gamble too.

And as others said above, you can buy them with in-game gold if you don't want to spend real money or with endeavors and gems if you don't want to test your luck.
 

You like to gamble, and that is fine. I don't The problem to me is that certain (cosmetic) things in the game can only be attained through gambling with real life money.

Too many times I have been browsing through the crown store, looking for something I want to spend my crowns on and when I finally find something I like, it can only be purchased with crown gems. It really feels like ZOS is trying to entice me to pick up a gambling habit and spend way way more money on a (cosmetic) item than it is worth.

yea but e.g. if they remove crates i dont think they ll give u a 400 gem skin for 1500 crowns - sure the price will be set and not random but i wouldnt like to spend 10k crowns per costume if i can get them for 400 or less

Ragged_Claw

To those saying we can use in-game gold to buy crates - who's selling crowns? I belong to two guilds which had dedicated crown selling Discords that no longer exist. I'm always asking in my main trading guild, but on the rare ocassion someone does offer crowns for sale there is a frantic push to buy them and the asking price is far more than most could afford. Now add to that that you need multiple crates to even have a chance of getting what you want and I think you'll find the majority of players do not have anywhere near that much gold. I could spend billions of in-game gold on crates and STILL not get what I want, so that's no answer in my opinion.

And why would anyone defend their practices? Even if you enjoy the gambling mechanic why are you defending the fact that it is getting harder and harder for you to win a big prize? The crates have become more diluted with junk over time, gem only items added and other items pushed up into the rarer categories diluting them too. If you truly enjoy crown crates, why are you happy to get ripped off? It makes no sense to me. It's because of people defending these crappy practices that they're making it worse and worse.

tldr: NOBODY should be happy with these changes, whether you enjoy crown crates or not.

KhajiitLivesMatter

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

To those saying we can use in-game gold to buy crates - who's selling crowns? I belong to two guilds which had dedicated crown selling Discords that no longer exist. I'm always asking in my main trading guild, but on the rare ocassion someone does offer crowns for sale there is a frantic push to buy them and the asking price is far more than most could afford. Now add to that that you need multiple crates to even have a chance of getting what you want and I think you'll find the majority of players do not have anywhere near that much gold. I could spend billions of in-game gold on crates and STILL not get what I want, so that's no answer in my opinion.

And why would anyone defend their practices? Even if you enjoy the gambling mechanic why are you defending the fact that it is getting harder and harder for you to win a big prize? The crates have become more diluted with junk over time, gem only items added and other items pushed up into the rarer categories diluting them too. If you truly enjoy crown crates, why are you happy to get ripped off? It makes no sense to me. It's because of people defending these crappy practices that they're making it worse and worse.

tldr: NOBODY should be happy with these changes, whether you enjoy crown crates or not.

have 2 mates who sell crown for me for 250-500 max

Tommy_The_Gun

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

i don't agree. the crates are an opportunity to get cool stuff IF you choose to.

Agree.

I have not spend a penny and got some cool stuff from those new crates (crown gems from twitch crates & seals of endeavours). The only "collection" of crown crates I would buy for RL cash are Xanmeer Crates, as literally "everything" inside is something I would like to have.

rageofodin

Blinx wrote: »

not to be rude, but quite frankly tired of seeing these threads, if someone wants to gamble in hopes of getting a cool, item, that's entirely up tp them
heck the craft bag is a predatory practice to force us to sub when you think about it

The craft bag is purchased directly from having an ESO plus membership that yields multiple benefits. This is exactly what I am for

A crate is locking specific items behind a paywall with only a CHANCE of getting it

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

wolfie1.0.

rageofodin wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

not to be rude, but quite frankly tired of seeing these threads, if someone wants to gamble in hopes of getting a cool, item, that's entirely up tp them
heck the craft bag is a predatory practice to force us to sub when you think about it

The craft bag is purchased directly from having an ESO plus membership that yields multiple benefits. This is exactly what I am for

A crate is locking specific items behind a paywall with only a CHANCE of getting it

[snip]

ESO+ gives you access to a lot of things sure but you HAVE to use IRL funds to gain access to it's contents there isn't a way around this. It also gives you a clear in game advantage over players that don't sub in the form of a major inventory access.

Whereas right now you can buy crown crates with either irl funds or in game gold. Further you can bypass the gambling part through seals of endeavors or with stored crown gems that you can farm from streams or prior boxes.

Both are predatory in nature and drive you to certain activities. How much is opinion, but they are that way.

[edited to remove quote]

Mythgard1967

I like them. I pretty appreciate everything about it. If I want something, I can gamble for it and ESO makes money and I get a game to play. I feel no need to change anything. And when I get a radiant apex mount on the first crate...I get to feel like the luckiest person alive.

These are cosmetics. They don't impact actual play.

BlossomDead

Agreed with the OP. This is an online MMO, not a casino.

huntgod_ESO

Loot crates are problematic on many levels, they are absolutely predatory and exploit gambling mechanics to get you to purchase them.

Unfortunately, it does not appear that the US legal system is prepared to regulate them and require some very basic transparency in how they are utilized, so we just have to depend on Europe to make those changes and then benefit from them, if ZoS wants to continue marketing the game there.

Endeavors was introduced because Microsoft required they have a system in place to acquire loot crate items without purchasing something, this solution was literally the bare minimum they could do, don't get me wrong, I appreciate it and am right at 13000 seals and intend to buy something nice when I get to 16000.

Disturbed_One

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

There are plenty of safe options. Best of which is to find a guild who have members who are approved crown traders within the guild. Those are members who have proven to be reliable and it's within the guild best interest to ensure that those players remain so.

Incorrect. There is no 100% safe and guaranteed option to exchange gold for crowns within game. ZOS will not secure that transaction and will not be held accountable. This is stated in the EULA/TOS.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed in anything, real-life, or in-game. "Safe" does not imply 100%, no chance at failure, it just means that it's very unlikely to fail. Purposefully misrepresenting their view derails the topic, provokes conflict and has no place here.

Raideen

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

There are plenty of safe options. Best of which is to find a guild who have members who are approved crown traders within the guild. Those are members who have proven to be reliable and it's within the guild best interest to ensure that those players remain so.

Incorrect. There is no 100% safe and guaranteed option to exchange gold for crowns within game. ZOS will not secure that transaction and will not be held accountable. This is stated in the EULA/TOS.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed in anything, real-life, or in-game. "Safe" does not imply 100%, no chance at failure, it just means that it's very unlikely to fail. Purposefully misrepresenting their view derails the topic, provokes conflict and has no place here.

Incorrect. If you purchase something from a company, they are bound by law to deliver. There are laws in place for consumers. However, there is nothing in place to stop someone from scamming someones gold.

Secondly. I have not misrepresented anyone. A false statement was made that you can exchange gold for crowns (which you can't even do, you have to exchange gold for items from the crown store) but more importantly, ZOS does not have an official means for this transaction and many many people have been scammed. Its buyer beware. I simply pointed that out for prospective customers, so that they are fully informed.

Hapexamendios

I don't buy them, but if someone else wants to I don't really care.

Araneae6537

I much prefer to purchase items directly but I won’t insult those who like to buy Crown crates buy calling the crates “predatory.”

I usually don’t buy them because most of the items don’t appeal to me but I did buy both Ayleid and Wild Hunt crates earlier in the year because I liked enough of the items. I made an informed choice; I was not “preyed” upon and I don’t regret it.

It seems to me that “predatory” is one of the terms people throw at anything they don’t like.
(Edited for typos.)

BlueViolet

I also prefer to purchase items directly, but I do think crates are problematic. Everything that's new and lovely that should ( imo ) be put into the store for people to buy, and pick and / or choose, is rammed into a predatory gambling box.

One of the things I especially loathe about the crates, besides the above, is the fact that if you open one and receive something you don't like or have no use for, and don't already own it, you're forced to keep it.

I've opened a couple of free crates when they were first around, and was forced to keep one of the ugly dwarven mounts. They didn't have gems back then If I recall correctly, but it would be the same now - if I opened one of these new crates and got one of those awful mounts, I'd be stuck with the damned thing, instead of being able to trade it in for gems or something.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I wouldn't mind them so much if they were fairly priced (the prices now are absolutely obscene... 400 crown gems for a costume?? and a skin??), and IF there were a steady variety of items coming into the store for regular crowns that were on par with the crate items. As it is, that's becoming increasingly rare in favour of the crown gems. But as the system is now, it disgusts me deeply.

Kiralyn2000

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

They did, they added the Endeavor system.

BlossomDead wrote: »

This is an online MMO, not a casino.

Tell that to the people who did endless Blackwing Lair (or any other raid) runs, hoping for the random drop of gear to go their way. And the people who ground out Baal run after Baal run in Diablo 2, hoping for the Random Loot Container er, Boss to drop the loot they wanted. (insert thousands of examples from RPGs all the way back to the earliest ones)

Yep, people have been busting open random boxes hoping for loot for decades. Long before there were paid crates.

(heck, and even for that Big Payday - farming for that rare loot drop, so you could sell it on the auction house for massive gold)