Crown Crates

Raideen

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

They did, they added the Endeavor system.

BlossomDead wrote: »

This is an online MMO, not a casino.

Tell that to the people who did endless Blackwing Lair (or any other raid) runs, hoping for the random drop of gear to go their way. And the people who ground out Baal run after Baal run in Diablo 2, hoping for the Random Loot Container er, Boss to drop the loot they wanted. (insert thousands of examples from RPGs all the way back to the earliest ones)

Yep, people have been busting open random boxes hoping for loot for decades. Long before there were paid crates.

(heck, and even for that Big Payday - farming for that rare loot drop, so you could sell it on the auction house for massive gold)

The difference in boss drops vs loot crates is that you get boss drops for playing the game you pay for. Loot crates are money spent on top of money already spent to play the game. Its not even remotely the same.

woe

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

Smitch_59

I once bought some crown crates, a few years ago. Opened them only to get a bunch of junk potions and food. Never again.

Waseem

don't get the crap in there or get rich

just accept that this fantasy world is not much farther than the real one. for each has his financial capabilities.

I have/had some stuff that I really like, i got some, and some were out of my pocket and I learned to adapt and be satisfied eh
in the end of the day, I may have many mounts, but I ride only 1-2 on the span of months
some of my "dReAmS mOuNtS" are
in my possession and can't remember the last time I looked at them or used XD
same with costumes, etc.

Them businesses needs those dollaros to pay CEOs and workers

kind_hero

I am baffled to read comments like "let people gamble if they wish to", when gambling is a toxic and dangerous behavior which ruined countless people and their families. Some governments have started to wake up and take measures to curb down practices like loot crates.

After Microsoft has bought Bethesda, I thought that crown crates will become more friendlier, seeing the endeavor system. However, that was hardly the case. The endeavor system is just a piggy bank that I will use probably once a year to buy a super mount that I might never ever afford or try to gamble for it. That's better than nothing, but still, it is very little. Most likely I will not grind endeavors after I buy an apex reward.

[snip] Houses that cost $100, pricey outfit styles and worst of all (for those into housing who buy houses), furnishings that cost gems and ridiculously expensive furnishing packs. Problem with all of these is that housing is quite limited in terms of slots and what you can do in the huge manors the devs are constantly releasing. The requests from the housing community are largely ignored, but at the same time, the prices on everything housing related increases.

The company is pushing more and more of these crates and pricey collectibles, but I fail to see a big changes to the game for several years. Many important changes, like the armory and new cp system is more in the line of quality of life improvements, from my point of view. The new DLCs are going in the same old fashioned way since Summerset.

The art direction stays the same. Motifs and outfits have little variance year after year. Despite many requests, all motifs and styles have floating hip flaps and crotch rags. I don't want to argue with the people who aren't bothered by this, I am just saying that some variation would be much appreciated. I see ridiculous mount designs... automatons, huge beasts, walking starfields and exploding effects (all very expensive), but on the outfit/motif side there is very little variance

So yes... crown crates would be fine if the game would offer more and the devs would be more responsive to what the community is asking.

[edited for bashing]

wolfie1.0.

Raideen wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

There are plenty of safe options. Best of which is to find a guild who have members who are approved crown traders within the guild. Those are members who have proven to be reliable and it's within the guild best interest to ensure that those players remain so.

Incorrect. There is no 100% safe and guaranteed option to exchange gold for crowns within game. ZOS will not secure that transaction and will not be held accountable. This is stated in the EULA/TOS.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed in anything, real-life, or in-game. "Safe" does not imply 100%, no chance at failure, it just means that it's very unlikely to fail. Purposefully misrepresenting their view derails the topic, provokes conflict and has no place here.

Incorrect. If you purchase something from a company, they are bound by law to deliver. There are laws in place for consumers. However, there is nothing in place to stop someone from scamming someones gold.

Secondly. I have not misrepresented anyone. A false statement was made that you can exchange gold for crowns (which you can't even do, you have to exchange gold for items from the crown store) but more importantly, ZOS does not have an official means for this transaction and many many people have been scammed. Its buyer beware. I simply pointed that out for prospective customers, so that they are fully informed.

[snip] First laws are not a 100% guarantee for anything, they are reliant on compliance and enforcement. If the government is not willing to take up your claim for you then you have to go to court as a private citizen which can be expensive depending on the merits of your claim. If laws were 100% effective and 100% guaranteed the there would be absolutely no fraud that wasn't government sanctioned. In which case you still lose. Often even if you win your case in court you still lose because at the end of the day the lawyers need paying.

Most consumer protections put in place are actually rules set by payment processors and governments that financial institutions, card and payment issuers all need to comply with to operate. These are extensive and vary by country.
These companies often value the customer over any losses that the consumer would be out if a merchant declines to either produce the product or give you your funds then the financial institution assumes the risk and gives the consumer compensation. Then the either write the loss off or pursue legal action.

As to your second point about crown purchases. To be quite honest a legitimate crown item seller is the one taking the majority of the risk in these transactions because they paid IRL funds to get those crowns in exchange for an in game currency that is meaningless in the real world. It is pixels in a game and can be earned back with a bit of time and doesn't have any IRL value except in enjoyment. It is also a transaction that while ZOS allows it, was not what the system was intended to be used for. Would it be nice? Yes will we get one? Not likely.

TL;DR the only real guarantees in life is that it is the biggest MMO you will ever play and you only have 1 life, and there is a time limit to it. Make the best of what you ha e any way you can.

[edited for baiting]

Mayrael

Endeavors were introduced not for the convenience of players but so that ZOS could get around some of the restrictions associated with gambling in games. The point is that no one can now accuse them that the only way to get crown crates content is to gamble. That's why the prices there are not linked in any way to the crown prices, that's why there are no items from the whole crown store just from crown crates.

As a side effect we have benefited from this because we have a way to get crown crates items in game but don't confuse this with ZOS "good intentions", this is a business and we are a commodity and treated as such. There is no reason to believe that ZOS will listen to our requests and even the most rational arguments. This system was created just to make crown crates available in as many countries as possible, that's all.

wheresbes

It's not like you're forced to buy crates, no one needs the stuff in there. Though I realise they can be an issue for those people that "need" to have the latest fashion accessory (and so spend and regret).

I usually buy a pack (even better if they go on sale); that's like the price of a dinner out. Since I don't like to dine out, I divert that money to support one of my favourite games. It goes like this for me: would I give ZOS my 25EUR anyway? Yes. What I get in crates is a bonus.

I'm more fed up by other things, such as that outfit/armoury slots are PER character, or that I have to beg for a vampire bite in guild chat even if I was a vampire last month.

Raideen

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You can also buy crates from other people using in game gold and never spending any money yourself.

There is no 100% safe and secure ZOS approved method of exchanging gold for items. In fact many people have been scammed and ZOS own admission in their TOS declares that they are not accountable.

Until ZOS creates their own gold to crown exchange in game with 100% safe and secure transactions without the need for 3rd party exchanges, it is buyer beware when it comes to gold/item exchange.

There are plenty of safe options. Best of which is to find a guild who have members who are approved crown traders within the guild. Those are members who have proven to be reliable and it's within the guild best interest to ensure that those players remain so.

Incorrect. There is no 100% safe and guaranteed option to exchange gold for crowns within game. ZOS will not secure that transaction and will not be held accountable. This is stated in the EULA/TOS.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed in anything, real-life, or in-game. "Safe" does not imply 100%, no chance at failure, it just means that it's very unlikely to fail. Purposefully misrepresenting their view derails the topic, provokes conflict and has no place here.

Incorrect. If you purchase something from a company, they are bound by law to deliver. There are laws in place for consumers. However, there is nothing in place to stop someone from scamming someones gold.

Secondly. I have not misrepresented anyone. A false statement was made that you can exchange gold for crowns (which you can't even do, you have to exchange gold for items from the crown store) but more importantly, ZOS does not have an official means for this transaction and many many people have been scammed. Its buyer beware. I simply pointed that out for prospective customers, so that they are fully informed.

[snip] First laws are not a 100% guarantee for anything, they are reliant on compliance and enforcement. If the government is not willing to take up your claim for you then you have to go to court as a private citizen which can be expensive depending on the merits of your claim. If laws were 100% effective and 100% guaranteed the there would be absolutely no fraud that wasn't government sanctioned. In which case you still lose. Often even if you win your case in court you still lose because at the end of the day the lawyers need paying.

Most consumer protections put in place are actually rules set by payment processors and governments that financial institutions, card and payment issuers all need to comply with to operate. These are extensive and vary by country.
These companies often value the customer over any losses that the consumer would be out if a merchant declines to either produce the product or give you your funds then the financial institution assumes the risk and gives the consumer compensation. Then the either write the loss off or pursue legal action.

As to your second point about crown purchases. To be quite honest a legitimate crown item seller is the one taking the majority of the risk in these transactions because they paid IRL funds to get those crowns in exchange for an in game currency that is meaningless in the real world. It is pixels in a game and can be earned back with a bit of time and doesn't have any IRL value except in enjoyment. It is also a transaction that while ZOS allows it, was not what the system was intended to be used for. Would it be nice? Yes will we get one? Not likely.

TL;DR the only real guarantees in life is that it is the biggest MMO you will ever play and you only have 1 life, and there is a time limit to it. Make the best of what you ha e any way you can.

[snip] This is a very cut and dry topic. Exchanging gold for crowns (or vice versa) does not happen through ZOS and is subject to abuse and a loss of ones crowns or gold and per ZOS own terms is not subject to refund. Its buyer beware.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

AJones43865

We don't have to buy crowns or deal with the crown store if we don't want to. That might be the best aspect of the crown store. But it's also a predatory system that is grossly over priced. We should be allowed to point out both realities without fear of recourse.

SerafinaWaterstar

My personal opinion is that crown crates are predatory and unnecessary aspect of the game. I could say more but would get penalised.

I would prefer to be able to directly purchase items from the crown store - but even that is now secondary to the gambling that is the crates - the majority of new stuff goes direct into them, bypassing the store.

I would suggest a compromise - put the items in the store to be bought normally, and for those who like to gamble, have the crates as a way of getting them too.

But having gambling normalised like this is neither good or healthy for all involved.

Don’t forget, the house always wins. 🙂

jaws343

kind_hero wrote: »

I am baffled to read comments like "let people gamble if they wish to", when gambling is a toxic and dangerous behavior which ruined countless people and their families. Some governments have started to wake up and take measures to curb down practices like loot crates.

After Microsoft has bought Bethesda, I thought that crown crates will become more friendlier, seeing the endeavor system. However, that was hardly the case. The endeavor system is just a piggy bank that I will use probably once a year to buy a super mount that I might never ever afford or try to gamble for it. That's better than nothing, but still, it is very little. Most likely I will not grind endeavors after I buy an apex reward.

[snip] Houses that cost $100, pricey outfit styles and worst of all (for those into housing who buy houses), furnishings that cost gems and ridiculously expensive furnishing packs. Problem with all of these is that housing is quite limited in terms of slots and what you can do in the huge manors the devs are constantly releasing. The requests from the housing community are largely ignored, but at the same time, the prices on everything housing related increases.

The company is pushing more and more of these crates and pricey collectibles, but I fail to see a big changes to the game for several years. Many important changes, like the armory and new cp system is more in the line of quality of life improvements, from my point of view. The new DLCs are going in the same old fashioned way since Summerset.

The art direction stays the same. Motifs and outfits have little variance year after year. Despite many requests, all motifs and styles have floating hip flaps and crotch rags. I don't want to argue with the people who aren't bothered by this, I am just saying that some variation would be much appreciated. I see ridiculous mount designs... automatons, huge beasts, walking starfields and exploding effects (all very expensive), but on the outfit/motif side there is very little variance

So yes... crown crates would be fine if the game would offer more and the devs would be more responsive to what the community is asking.

There is nothing wrong with gambling, just like there is nothing wrong with drinking. Drinking also ruins lives. It's up to the people who participate in these things irresponsibly to manage their own choices and lives and not for the rest of society to forgo things for them.

We are all supposed to be adults here, by game rating. There is no problem with a pseudo gambling mechanic for a bunch of adults to make their own choices of whether to use the mechanic or not. If it is such a problem for someone, the option to not engage in the activity exists, including the option to not engage with the game if it is going to be a trigger for them.

At the end of the day, let adults make adult choices.

[edited to remove quote]

jedtb16_ESO

the recurring idea that runs in this thread, and many other like it, is that gambling causes problems for some people so it should be banned. some people are irresponsible behind the wheel of a car. so, by the same logic, we should ban cars too, and hey, it would be good for the planet.

ZOS_Icy

Hi there,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Community Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

• Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

• Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

Thank you for understanding.

Exiled_Messenger

As someone who "has to" purchase a great number (120 x Celestial) of Crown Crates every time one is released, I would love to see them transform into what SWTOR did with their version.

Within the last few years, they changed their Cartel Packs to ones that contain a random assortment of anything that sells on their Cartel Market. All new items are released for direct sale and added to the random packs.

This allows those who really want an item to purchase it directly and allows those that like to be surprised by what they get a way to do so. BioWare probably took a hit on their profits, but I think it was the right thing to do.

PizzaCat82

There's a number of things they could do to make me be happy with crates but they keep going in a direction that makes people spend more money on crates and overall satisfaction with crates keeps going down and down. If people were rational and able to realize the odds and money spent does not end in good returns for the crates bought, then maybe there would be more outcry.

But people love gambling. They love thinking there's a chance they'll get that radiant apex[snip]. They think that their chance to get what they want out of the crate is perfectly acceptable, when ZOS has been moving stuff to higher tiers, and giving you duplicates more often so you don't even get the stuff you want in lower tiers after 30+ crates. I got Stags motif 3 times. Other things in the 100 gem pile that I got = nothing. [snip]

Personally there's no way to make this experience better for the consumer that doesn't involve ZOS losing a lot of money that they currently get from crates. Even if you make the crate experience better, people would ultimately buy less because they got what they wanted and stopped buying. The addiction makes them buy, not rational thought.

[snip]

Lastly, I wouldn't get rid of the crates altogether. It'd be better to make them a better value, where people can get more of what they want from fewer crates, with better drop rates and less duplicates. Give more ways to earn endeavors so we don't get 1 mount every year. [snip]

[edited for bashing & conspiracy theories]

Jeffrey530

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

There's a number of things they could do to make me be happy with crates but they keep going in a direction that makes people spend more money on crates and overall satisfaction with crates keeps going down and down. If people were rational and able to realize the odds and money spent does not end in good returns for the crates bought, then maybe there would be more outcry.

But people love gambling. They love thinking there's a chance they'll get that radiant apex, [snip]. They think that their chance to get what they want out of the crate is perfectly acceptable, when ZOS has been moving stuff to higher tiers, and giving you duplicates more often so you don't even get the stuff you want in lower tiers after 30+ crates. I got Stags motif 3 times. Other things in the 100 gem pile that I got = nothing. [snip]

Personally there's no way to make this experience better for the consumer that doesn't involve ZOS losing a lot of money that they currently get from crates. Even if you make the crate experience better, people would ultimately buy less because they got what they wanted and stopped buying. The addiction makes them buy, not rational thought.

[snip]

Lastly, I wouldn't get rid of the crates altogether. It'd be better to make them a better value, where people can get more of what they want from fewer crates, with better drop rates and less duplicates. Give more ways to earn endeavors so we don't get 1 mount every year. [snip]

Again this argument about companies not caring about their customers, sure it doesn't get tired expecting a company to not find ways to maximise profit. Change a game lmao if zos is as immoral and inhumane as you put it.

[edited to remove quote]

Hurbster

So everyone who plays this game is an adult, right?


Right?

PizzaCat82

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

There's a number of things they could do to make me be happy with crates but they keep going in a direction that makes people spend more money on crates and overall satisfaction with crates keeps going down and down. If people were rational and able to realize the odds and money spent does not end in good returns for the crates bought, then maybe there would be more outcry.

But people love gambling. They love thinking there's a chance they'll get that radiant apex, [snip]. They think that their chance to get what they want out of the crate is perfectly acceptable, when ZOS has been moving stuff to higher tiers, and giving you duplicates more often so you don't even get the stuff you want in lower tiers after 30+ crates. I got Stags motif 3 times. Other things in the 100 gem pile that I got = nothing. [snip]

Personally there's no way to make this experience better for the consumer that doesn't involve ZOS losing a lot of money that they currently get from crates. Even if you make the crate experience better, people would ultimately buy less because they got what they wanted and stopped buying. The addiction makes them buy, not rational thought.

[snip]

Lastly, I wouldn't get rid of the crates altogether. It'd be better to make them a better value, where people can get more of what they want from fewer crates, with better drop rates and less duplicates. Give more ways to earn endeavors so we don't get 1 mount every year. [snip]

Again this argument about companies not caring about their customers, sure it doesn't get tired expecting a company to not find ways to maximise profit. Change a game lmao if zos is as immoral and inhumane as you put it.

[edited to remove quote]

Its possible to make a good game without squeezing the playerbase until they are forced to spend large amounts for anything decent.

I would think, after the EA debacle with "a sense of pride and accomplishment" other companies would not stick everything behind lootbox gambling.

We can not exxpect a company to do the right thing. We can only expect them to do what will make them the most money. That does not mean we have to be happy about it, and it most certainly wont keep people playing a bad game.

daim

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

Well written. I get that many people here has read the first couple phrases of it and go on defence. What you really should do is to read the second half of the OP's post.

The problem isnt that the things in the store cost money, I mean why they shoudnt cost? We arent asking for free stuff.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Kwoung

daim wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

Well written. I get that many people here has read the first couple phrases of it and go on defence. What you really should do is to read the second half of the OP's post.

The problem isnt that the things in the store cost money, I mean why they shoudnt cost? We arent asking for free stuff.

[snip]

I would hazard to say, if ZOS actually put a dollar figure on those items, based on what they normally make off them via the crate method... folks would flip out. What's the average number of crates to collect enough gems to buy a radiant apex.. like 600 crates or something? Doesn't that translate into about $1400 to simply buy one? I can just imagine the posts here if they put those up for sale for $1400 each. Although, at least then collecting endeavors for a year may seem worthwhile.

[edited to remove quote]

Juomuuri

I used to buy crates, but stopped. And now I'm simply just sad that I have to collect endeavors for 3 months to afford just 3 things from the endeavor shop. Three things. And those are emotes since I'm a sucker for emotes and can't simply pass any that look like something I wanna use (performative stuff, musical instruments, that sorta thing). I dunno but it's not fun when emotes are behind an RNG paywall. Same goes for all the other stuff, I'd rather be able to choose exactly what I want and buy it with real money.

TheS1X

I have nothing against Crown crates if they change weekly, atm they tease with one type of corwn crates a month or even more and at the end they lower the price to squeez out the last from those who want those apex mounts.
If crown crates change weekly, people know that those will appear soon enough and they have more time to decide if they really want it or not and maybe skip decision for the next time.
BUT, ofc it would be more perfect if they just throw all items in to shops so people can actually buy what they want.

scorpius2k1

Kwoung wrote: »

I would hazard to say, if ZOS actually put a dollar figure on those items, based on what they normally make off them via the crate method... folks would flip out. What's the average number of crates to collect enough gems to buy a radiant apex.. like 600 crates or something? Doesn't that translate into about $1400 to simply buy one? I can just imagine the posts here if they put those up for sale for $1400 each. Although, at least then collecting endeavors for a year may seem worthwhile.

PullaStormy wrote: »

I used to buy crates, but stopped. And now I'm simply just sad that I have to collect endeavors for 3 months to afford just 3 things from the endeavor shop. Three things. And those are emotes since I'm a sucker for emotes and can't simply pass any that look like something I wanna use (performative stuff, musical instruments, that sorta thing). I dunno but it's not fun when emotes are behind an RNG paywall. Same goes for all the other stuff, I'd rather be able to choose exactly what I want and buy it with real money.

It would indeed be nice to see, at least the option, of mounts/pets and other items be able to be directly purchased from an online storefront for crowns or even directly bought. Just a random idea...maybe for ESO put PAST pets/mounts/cosmetics for direct purchase while still keeping them in crates too so everyone has an option that works best for their situation. For NEW mounts/pets/cosmetics they would be crate-only until a time they determine to make it available as a "PAST" cosmetic for direct purchase. Potentially a "middle ground" of sorts for everyone so to speak, company included.

I do hope ZOS will at some point be able to do what other popular and well-known MMO's have and are currently doing. There is no doubt a reason why they haven't decided to do this yet, and I respect whatever reasoning that is. They know what is going on behind the scenes and we can only speculate. Hopefully at some point, whatever the reason is that's keeping them from having another marketable income stream for the game will change and be implemented at some point.

As an example from another popular and successful MMO's website, mounts/pets can be directly purchased:

BlossomDead

Kwoung wrote: »

daim wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

Well written. I get that many people here has read the first couple phrases of it and go on defence. What you really should do is to read the second half of the OP's post.

The problem isnt that the things in the store cost money, I mean why they shoudnt cost? We arent asking for free stuff.

[snip]

I would hazard to say, if ZOS actually put a dollar figure on those items, based on what they normally make off them via the crate method... folks would flip out. What's the average number of crates to collect enough gems to buy a radiant apex.. like 600 crates or something? Doesn't that translate into about $1400 to simply buy one? I can just imagine the posts here if they put those up for sale for $1400 each. Although, at least then collecting endeavors for a year may seem worthwhile.

They can only get away with it now because the price isn't upfront. Showcasing $1400 mounts in their store would probably ruin their reputation.

[edited to remove quote]

Kwoung

BlossomDead wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

daim wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

Well written. I get that many people here has read the first couple phrases of it and go on defence. What you really should do is to read the second half of the OP's post.

The problem isnt that the things in the store cost money, I mean why they shoudnt cost? We arent asking for free stuff.

[snip]

I would hazard to say, if ZOS actually put a dollar figure on those items, based on what they normally make off them via the crate method... folks would flip out. What's the average number of crates to collect enough gems to buy a radiant apex.. like 600 crates or something? Doesn't that translate into about $1400 to simply buy one? I can just imagine the posts here if they put those up for sale for $1400 each. Although, at least then collecting endeavors for a year may seem worthwhile.

They can only get away with it now because the price isn't upfront. Showcasing $1400 mounts in their store would probably ruin their reputation.

Or everyone would just get used to it like has happened in another game...


[edited to remove quote]

francesinhalover

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

In my opinion endeavors are amazing for old crates. For new ones... Well, lets just say endeavors are a good way to on the future put insanely expensive things on crates. Hopefully i am wrong

BlossomDead

Kwoung wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

daim wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

With all the positive changes taking place in ESO, its far past the time we address Crown Crates

I argue that the Crown Crates are a predatory practice, where items in the game, which Zenimax has a complete monopoly of (meaning you cannot attain these items from 3rd party vendors), and utilizing a gambling mechanic in game to acquire items only attainable through said gambling mechanic is a tumor in the game

Over time we have seen the Crown Gem prices of items go up, the daily rewards turn to simple items you can get in game, and the implementation of the Endeavor system which would require you to grind out at least 9 months of max Endeavors to afford ONE Apex Mount

The Endeavor system was not put in place for those that cannot afford crown crates, but a way to put a timer on how fast you can gain them in relationship to the items that are on a timer, which is used to motivate people to just buy crown crates

I understand that Zenimax is a company that has financial goals they need to meet for their investors, but I doubt that is the primary reason the developers and artists signed on, and utilizing a gambling pay wall for the items that clearly have the most thought put behind them is the definition of a predatory practice to maximize profit. You could further argue the fact that crown crates are in themselves a metric separate from any real life monetary amount to keep the distance between the idea of what you are really spending, and then you have crown GEMS, another metric to separate you from the real life cost

There is ZERO justifiable reason to keep crown crates other than you are trying to maximize profitability off players with a gambling mechanic

Zenimax could, today, do away with them and just put the appropriate, real money, sticker price on them, giving players the choice and freedom of what to buy

This would also open the markets back up in countries where loot crates are illegal, forcing the players there to not even have the option of attaining items from crown crates or gems

Zenimax has made amazing strides to makes this game so much better for players these past two years, this action would be a watershed moment for them and players alike

Well written. I get that many people here has read the first couple phrases of it and go on defence. What you really should do is to read the second half of the OP's post.

The problem isnt that the things in the store cost money, I mean why they shoudnt cost? We arent asking for free stuff.

[snip]

I would hazard to say, if ZOS actually put a dollar figure on those items, based on what they normally make off them via the crate method... folks would flip out. What's the average number of crates to collect enough gems to buy a radiant apex.. like 600 crates or something? Doesn't that translate into about $1400 to simply buy one? I can just imagine the posts here if they put those up for sale for $1400 each. Although, at least then collecting endeavors for a year may seem worthwhile.

They can only get away with it now because the price isn't upfront. Showcasing $1400 mounts in their store would probably ruin their reputation.

Or everyone would just get used to it like has happened in another game...

But that is a completely different game, isn't it? Does not address the same demographics.

[edited to remove quote]

Gaebriel0410

I'd much rather purchase store items directly, but overall I don't really mind the loot crates and I usually buy a pack when new ones come out - though the recent additions of an outfit and personality to the apex tier were quite disappointing and left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth which shouldn't have been there.

When items like the above are in the store, I will usually throw crowns at it. If they're in crates, I won't try for them in a 1000 years since trying to get specific items is an excercise in burning money, and the house always wins.

For example the recent maniacal jester personality, it doesn't fit any of my characters at all, so I have zero temptation to try and get it from crates. If it was in the store however, I probably would've bought it just for the occasional cool screenshot possibility of one of the idle poses.

But in the end I think loot crates are just that, loot crates. Fairly harmless and definitely not 'predatory', but kinda annoying at times. I'd rather not see them, or at least have all its contents also available in the store. To me personally it would be a much better look if they made the crates appear like a more attractive option for players who like the majority of the cosmetics in a certain season. So you could for example pay the regular price for specific things you want to buy, or choose to buy crates instead that have a chance to give you more value for your crowns, but for random items. I think that would be received much better amongst the playerbase. Of course it's just speculation from my side and I have no clue about their store metrics, but to me it sounds having more options like that would get them much more revenue in the end.

'Predatory' is just a buzzword thrown around a lot on the internet, usually meaning 'something I dislike/disagree with', in the same way as the also very popular 'disingenuous'.

Elsonso

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

I'd much rather purchase store items directly...

I also wanted to purchase store items directly, but in the "got what I asked for, but not what I wanted" category, they added a new currency rather than just letting people buy the items for Crowns. I really just want to walk into the Crown Store and plop down Crowns... no Gems... no Seals... and buy stuff.