The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Dueling Banned in Fargrave
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Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭I disagree that non-combat pets and assistants should be banned from cities. We should be allowed to see other people's cute pets and assistants can be helpful in places like Leyawiin, where there is a stupid loading screen just to enter to bank.
I do think dueling shouldn't be allowed near crafting stations, at the very least.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Combat pets, non-combat pets, assistants and companions should be banned from all cities.
That's going too far. Assistants in particular are designed to make cities and other areas more manageable without having to increase the number of npcs inside of them.
The rest are more expendable but assistants are an expensive paid option specifically designed to address the lack of npcs in certain areas and that functionality should be maintained.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 30, 2021 3:34PM2 -
whitecrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
Since companions can use the wayshrines with you I guess that whole concept is out the window.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Combat pets, non-combat pets, assistants and companions should be banned from all cities.
That's going too far. Assistants in particular are designed to make cities and other areas more manageable without having to increase the number of npcs inside of them.
The rest are more expendable but assistants are an expensive paid option specifically designed to address the lack of npcs in certain areas and that functionality should be maintained.
Combat pets are not expendable, given the amount of cities that have combat quests inside them and the likelihood of Justice System encounters with angry NPCs.
Similarly, I don't mind not seeing other people's Companions, but there's no reason not to see my own.2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
Since companions can use the wayshrines with you I guess that whole concept is out the window.
Companions are at least divines from this point of view. Bastian was immune to the particular effect during the Blackwood storyline that was used against Vestige and other... persons. He didn't interfere, though, just like any divine.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Combat pets, non-combat pets, assistants and companions should be banned from all cities.
That's going too far. Assistants in particular are designed to make cities and other areas more manageable without having to increase the number of npcs inside of them.
The rest are more expendable but assistants are an expensive paid option specifically designed to address the lack of npcs in certain areas and that functionality should be maintained.
Combat pets are not expendable, given the amount of cities that have combat quests inside them and the likelihood of Justice System encounters with angry NPCs.
Similarly, I don't mind not seeing other people's Companions, but there's no reason not to see my own.
True. Combat pets are also not expendable.0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think duels should be disabled in all towns, along with bears, flappy birds, companions and annoying farting glitter pets.
Who wants to duel with lag anyway? Go to someone’s empty house or an out of the way wayshrine.Of course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
-Berj Stoneheart4 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bastians personal quest definitely has multiple in-town stages. I don't remember if that's also the case for Mirri but it might well be.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
Not really as that's the main driving point of the Bangkorai story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:To_Walk_on_Far_ShoresPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
Not really as that's the main driving point of the Bangkorai story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:To_Walk_on_Far_Shores
Again, that is the state pre reclaiming soul (it is written in the dialogue in your own link). Anyway, the later content is always more important in Elder Scrolls, and now we have this:
Why don't you just use the amulet yourself? Why do you need me?
"The protective ward is deadly to Daedra. As a mortal, you are perfectly immune to any such dangers. The ward simply bars your way.
Besides, the amulet can only be used by a mortal. That's part of the reason it can destroy the ward."
So the ward won't hurt me?
"As a mortal, you are immune to the harmful effects of the protective ward. As long as it is in place, however, it will prevent either of us from passing through the warded doorway.
That is its primary function, after all."The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
atherusmora✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »You can't duel anywhere in the Deadlands either. You can watch the random Daedra fight each other and spar, but you cannot. I understand Fargrave with all it's doodads, but I guess they finally admit they packed too much into one product for it to function properly.
Banning an advertised aspect of the game really shows these servers are bursting at the seams. They may allow it after the bulk of the population moves to the next new zone.
This displeases me greatly.(Pet)Magsorc Main
PS4 NA
PvX
Long Live the Queen!!!0 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭atherusmora wrote: »NordSwordnBoard wrote: »You can't duel anywhere in the Deadlands either. You can watch the random Daedra fight each other and spar, but you cannot. I understand Fargrave with all it's doodads, but I guess they finally admit they packed too much into one product for it to function properly.
Banning an advertised aspect of the game really shows these servers are bursting at the seams. They may allow it after the bulk of the population moves to the next new zone.
This displeases me greatly.
Yeah while I think it's good we don't have dueling in Fargrave, I am confused and concerned that we can't duel in the Deadlands. There aren't really any "towns" around (there's one shamble filled village, but the lack of amenities means no one is going to be doing their daily crafting there), the crafting stations that do exist are for special sets (and no one is going to go out of their way to use them for anything other than making those sets), and in general I think there's a lot less clutter around to phase in.
Plus, how epic would it be to duel in the Deadlands? Just in general.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
Not really as that's the main driving point of the Bangkorai story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:To_Walk_on_Far_Shores
Again, that is the state pre reclaiming soul (it is written in the dialogue in your own link). Anyway, the later content is always more important in Elder Scrolls, and now we have this:
Why don't you just use the amulet yourself? Why do you need me?
"The protective ward is deadly to Daedra. As a mortal, you are perfectly immune to any such dangers. The ward simply bars your way.
Besides, the amulet can only be used by a mortal. That's part of the reason it can destroy the ward."
So the ward won't hurt me?
"As a mortal, you are immune to the harmful effects of the protective ward. As long as it is in place, however, it will prevent either of us from passing through the warded doorway.
That is its primary function, after all."
She may just mean "mortal" as in "not a daedra like herself."
For example, Lamae Bal considers her Blood Scions distinct from mortals. Rada al-Saran likewise considers himself and other vampires as distinct from mortals. Yet Lyranth still happily calls vampire players "mortal."4 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
Not really as that's the main driving point of the Bangkorai story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:To_Walk_on_Far_Shores
Again, that is the state pre reclaiming soul (it is written in the dialogue in your own link). Anyway, the later content is always more important in Elder Scrolls, and now we have this:
Why don't you just use the amulet yourself? Why do you need me?
"The protective ward is deadly to Daedra. As a mortal, you are perfectly immune to any such dangers. The ward simply bars your way.
Besides, the amulet can only be used by a mortal. That's part of the reason it can destroy the ward."
So the ward won't hurt me?
"As a mortal, you are immune to the harmful effects of the protective ward. As long as it is in place, however, it will prevent either of us from passing through the warded doorway.
That is its primary function, after all."
She may just mean "mortal" as in "not a daedra like herself."
For example, Lamae Bal considers her Blood Scions distinct from mortals. Rada al-Saran likewise considers himself and other vampires as distinct from mortals. Yet Lyranth still happily calls vampire players "mortal."
^ this
It's more in regards to anti-daedra wards. If it was anti-immortal then my vampire shouldn't get in either.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
Not really as that's the main driving point of the Bangkorai story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:To_Walk_on_Far_Shores
Again, that is the state pre reclaiming soul (it is written in the dialogue in your own link). Anyway, the later content is always more important in Elder Scrolls, and now we have this:
Why don't you just use the amulet yourself? Why do you need me?
"The protective ward is deadly to Daedra. As a mortal, you are perfectly immune to any such dangers. The ward simply bars your way.
Besides, the amulet can only be used by a mortal. That's part of the reason it can destroy the ward."
So the ward won't hurt me?
"As a mortal, you are immune to the harmful effects of the protective ward. As long as it is in place, however, it will prevent either of us from passing through the warded doorway.
That is its primary function, after all."
She may just mean "mortal" as in "not a daedra like herself."
For example, Lamae Bal considers her Blood Scions distinct from mortals. Rada al-Saran likewise considers himself and other vampires as distinct from mortals. Yet Lyranth still happily calls vampire players "mortal."
Vampires can be killed, thus they are mortals. Otherwise prince A'tor should be considered not mortal (and as a result every mortal should be considered not mortal).The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the idea of not allowing duels in towns. That said, I expect that duelers need to go to where the players are to find folks to duel. A solution to avoid disrupting towns while making it easy for duelers to find folks to duel might be to, once the duel invitation is accepted, both parties are teleported to a dueling area where they can complete their duel. After the duel is done, they are teleported back to exactly where they started in town. This feature would only apply when a duel request is accepted in town. Out in the wilds, at guild halls, etc, dueling would take place as it does now.
PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo1 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!2 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭It could be a thing in all major cities. It's insufferable arriving in a city (or leaving it) with two players without an iota of politeness fighting very close to the wayshrine.
Others' pets aren't an issue anymore (finally) even if the solution affected the interaction of other elements at certain ranges (e.g. a lootable corpse on the ground sometimes needs a few tries to be actually looted).
IMHO not having elements unnecessary to the Player gameplay would only provide better performance. Of course, I don't know tasty is ZOS' spaghetti to afirm that
I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.
The Vestige can't be "made from chaotic creteria like daedra" and "not a daedra" at the same time.
Being called a mortal that doesn't mean a mortal is great, though. Being called a vampire that doesn't mean a vampire or being called a mer that doesn't mean a mer is something I should use in the future.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.
The Vestige can't be "made from chaotic creteria like daedra" and "not a daedra" at the same time.
Being called a mortal that doesn't mean a mortal is great, though. Being called a vampire that doesn't mean a vampire or being called a mer that doesn't mean a mer is something I should use in the future.
Players have a mortal mind and a body that mimics that of a mortal made from chaotic creatia. You also have a daedric soul (called a vestige) and, when you get your soul back from Molag Bal, you will also simultaneously have a mortal's soul. So you have two souls.
It's possible that daedra like Lyranth don't count this and still consider you a mortal since you were born a mortal. Your mortal mind (the real you) can't possibly be older than a mortal lifespan at this point in time. As in, the player character did not exist at the beginning of time like daedra and Lyranth did, so there's still a sizable distinction there.2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.
The Vestige can't be "made from chaotic creteria like daedra" and "not a daedra" at the same time.
Being called a mortal that doesn't mean a mortal is great, though. Being called a vampire that doesn't mean a vampire or being called a mer that doesn't mean a mer is something I should use in the future.
Players have a mortal mind and a body that mimics that of a mortal made from chaotic creatia. You also have a daedric soul (called a vestige) and, when you get your soul back from Molag Bal, you will also simultaneously have a mortal's soul. So you have two souls.
It's possible that daedra like Lyranth don't count this and still consider you a mortal since you were born a mortal. Your mortal mind (the real you) can't possibly be older than a mortal lifespan at this point in time. As in, the player character did not exist at the beginning of time like daedra and Lyranth did, so there's still a sizable distinction there.
Lyranth was proven to be right by the flow of the story. The ward didn't destroyed the Vestige. The Vestige was able to use the amulet. Thus by the magic itself the Vestige is considered a mortal and has nothing to do with daedra. If there was any daedric soul (that is debatable), now there is non, otherwise the ward would react to it. That is the whole point of the quest, that is the whole reason the Vestige is called. To use the amulet that only a mortal can use.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.2 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.
The Vestige can't be "made from chaotic creteria like daedra" and "not a daedra" at the same time.
Being called a mortal that doesn't mean a mortal is great, though. Being called a vampire that doesn't mean a vampire or being called a mer that doesn't mean a mer is something I should use in the future.
Players have a mortal mind and a body that mimics that of a mortal made from chaotic creatia. You also have a daedric soul (called a vestige) and, when you get your soul back from Molag Bal, you will also simultaneously have a mortal's soul. So you have two souls.
It's possible that daedra like Lyranth don't count this and still consider you a mortal since you were born a mortal. Your mortal mind (the real you) can't possibly be older than a mortal lifespan at this point in time. As in, the player character did not exist at the beginning of time like daedra and Lyranth did, so there's still a sizable distinction there.
Lyranth was proven to be right by the flow of the story. The ward didn't destroyed the Vestige. The Vestige was able to use the amulet. Thus by the magic itself the Vestige is considered a mortal and has nothing to do with daedra. If there was any daedric soul (that is debatable), now there is non, otherwise the ward would react to it. That is the whole point of the quest, that is the whole reason the Vestige is called. To use the amulet that only a mortal can use.
There's an in game book that discusses this, called Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm. It's found somewhere in Coldharbour.
Here are some snippets from it (spoiler so it doesn't get too long):"It has long been understood that a Daedra, who lacks the Anuic animus known as the "soul," is not killed when its body is destroyed. A Daedra slain upon Mundus is merely "banished" back to its plane of origin, where its morphotype, or "vestige," gradually forms a new body, so that eventually the Daedra lives again...."
"Then there are the poor slaves known as the Soul Shriven. Each is a mortal kidnapped from Mundus at the moment of death, his or her soul stolen by Molag Bal for some unthinkable purpose, and given in exchange the vestige that enables him or her to form a counterfeit body here in Coldharbour. But they are not native to Oblivion, so a Soul Shriven's body is a sad imitation of the body worn in life, suffering rapid wear and decay until it dies—a death that is no liberation, for its vestige only forms a body once again, over and over, ad infinitum …."
" ....His theory is that the Soul Shriven's bodies are flawed because they have lost the focusing principle of their Anuic souls, so their vestiges are imperfect patterns. I concurred that this was likely, and then proposed the theoretical possibility of a Soul Shriven who, despite having lost his or her soul, possessed some other intrinsic Anuic aspect. This shall-we-say "paragon" Soul Shriven would form an unflawed body in Coldharbour that was a perfect duplicate of the body worn in Mundus. In fact, if this paragon bore a sufficiently high Anuic valence, upon contact with Padomaic creatia its body would form almost instantaneously."
Our ability to come back to life is tied to us having a daedric soul (vestige). As long as we have a vestige, we can continue to revive again and again. The fact that we do not experience permanent death upon getting our mortal soul back from Molag Bal means we must still have the daedric soul too.
1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.
The Vestige can't be "made from chaotic creteria like daedra" and "not a daedra" at the same time.
Being called a mortal that doesn't mean a mortal is great, though. Being called a vampire that doesn't mean a vampire or being called a mer that doesn't mean a mer is something I should use in the future.
Players have a mortal mind and a body that mimics that of a mortal made from chaotic creatia. You also have a daedric soul (called a vestige) and, when you get your soul back from Molag Bal, you will also simultaneously have a mortal's soul. So you have two souls.
It's possible that daedra like Lyranth don't count this and still consider you a mortal since you were born a mortal. Your mortal mind (the real you) can't possibly be older than a mortal lifespan at this point in time. As in, the player character did not exist at the beginning of time like daedra and Lyranth did, so there's still a sizable distinction there.
Lyranth was proven to be right by the flow of the story. The ward didn't destroyed the Vestige. The Vestige was able to use the amulet. Thus by the magic itself the Vestige is considered a mortal and has nothing to do with daedra. If there was any daedric soul (that is debatable), now there is non, otherwise the ward would react to it. That is the whole point of the quest, that is the whole reason the Vestige is called. To use the amulet that only a mortal can use.
There's an in game book that discusses this, called Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm. It's found somewhere in Coldharbour.
Here are some snippets from it (spoiler so it doesn't get too long):"It has long been understood that a Daedra, who lacks the Anuic animus known as the "soul," is not killed when its body is destroyed. A Daedra slain upon Mundus is merely "banished" back to its plane of origin, where its morphotype, or "vestige," gradually forms a new body, so that eventually the Daedra lives again...."
"Then there are the poor slaves known as the Soul Shriven. Each is a mortal kidnapped from Mundus at the moment of death, his or her soul stolen by Molag Bal for some unthinkable purpose, and given in exchange the vestige that enables him or her to form a counterfeit body here in Coldharbour. But they are not native to Oblivion, so a Soul Shriven's body is a sad imitation of the body worn in life, suffering rapid wear and decay until it dies—a death that is no liberation, for its vestige only forms a body once again, over and over, ad infinitum …."
" ....His theory is that the Soul Shriven's bodies are flawed because they have lost the focusing principle of their Anuic souls, so their vestiges are imperfect patterns. I concurred that this was likely, and then proposed the theoretical possibility of a Soul Shriven who, despite having lost his or her soul, possessed some other intrinsic Anuic aspect. This shall-we-say "paragon" Soul Shriven would form an unflawed body in Coldharbour that was a perfect duplicate of the body worn in Mundus. In fact, if this paragon bore a sufficiently high Anuic valence, upon contact with Padomaic creatia its body would form almost instantaneously."
Our ability to come back to life is tied to us having a daedric soul (vestige). As long as we have a vestige, we can continue to revive again and again. The fact that we do not experience permanent death upon getting our mortal soul back from Molag Bal means we must still have the daedric soul too.
We aren't Daedric anymore, that quest is intended to clear that up. Once we get our soul back, we are mortal. We have a body and a living soul, so we're not dead. If we die again canonically, we won't come back. The gameplay isn't similarly hampered for obvious reasons.2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
And in a bunch of other storylines it's the point that they are not...
Those are storylines that point to the ability of the Vestige to use wayshrine due to the lack of soul. That is the only reason the Vestige may be considered not entirely mortal. That may be encountered in some quests of the base game that chronologically are before the main quest finale. The restoring of the soul makes the Vestige completely mortal, it is at last evidenced by the Blackwood storyline (it was stressed by Meridia as well, actually). Technically the Vestige should lose the ability to travel by wayshrines and to revive, but for obvious gameplay reasons it will never be made. Technically the game should end with the main quest line due to this change, but for the same obvious reasons it is not done.
The Vestige is a mortal turned immortal from being made from chaotic creteria like daedra are now. Them getting their soul back doesn't confirm this is no longer the case.
Daedra, princes and others calling the Vestige mortal doesn't mean they are mortal like anyone else, but not a daedra.
The Vestige can't be "made from chaotic creteria like daedra" and "not a daedra" at the same time.
Being called a mortal that doesn't mean a mortal is great, though. Being called a vampire that doesn't mean a vampire or being called a mer that doesn't mean a mer is something I should use in the future.
Players have a mortal mind and a body that mimics that of a mortal made from chaotic creatia. You also have a daedric soul (called a vestige) and, when you get your soul back from Molag Bal, you will also simultaneously have a mortal's soul. So you have two souls.
It's possible that daedra like Lyranth don't count this and still consider you a mortal since you were born a mortal. Your mortal mind (the real you) can't possibly be older than a mortal lifespan at this point in time. As in, the player character did not exist at the beginning of time like daedra and Lyranth did, so there's still a sizable distinction there.
Lyranth was proven to be right by the flow of the story. The ward didn't destroyed the Vestige. The Vestige was able to use the amulet. Thus by the magic itself the Vestige is considered a mortal and has nothing to do with daedra. If there was any daedric soul (that is debatable), now there is non, otherwise the ward would react to it. That is the whole point of the quest, that is the whole reason the Vestige is called. To use the amulet that only a mortal can use.
There's an in game book that discusses this, called Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm. It's found somewhere in Coldharbour.
Here are some snippets from it (spoiler so it doesn't get too long):"It has long been understood that a Daedra, who lacks the Anuic animus known as the "soul," is not killed when its body is destroyed. A Daedra slain upon Mundus is merely "banished" back to its plane of origin, where its morphotype, or "vestige," gradually forms a new body, so that eventually the Daedra lives again...."
"Then there are the poor slaves known as the Soul Shriven. Each is a mortal kidnapped from Mundus at the moment of death, his or her soul stolen by Molag Bal for some unthinkable purpose, and given in exchange the vestige that enables him or her to form a counterfeit body here in Coldharbour. But they are not native to Oblivion, so a Soul Shriven's body is a sad imitation of the body worn in life, suffering rapid wear and decay until it dies—a death that is no liberation, for its vestige only forms a body once again, over and over, ad infinitum …."
" ....His theory is that the Soul Shriven's bodies are flawed because they have lost the focusing principle of their Anuic souls, so their vestiges are imperfect patterns. I concurred that this was likely, and then proposed the theoretical possibility of a Soul Shriven who, despite having lost his or her soul, possessed some other intrinsic Anuic aspect. This shall-we-say "paragon" Soul Shriven would form an unflawed body in Coldharbour that was a perfect duplicate of the body worn in Mundus. In fact, if this paragon bore a sufficiently high Anuic valence, upon contact with Padomaic creatia its body would form almost instantaneously."
Our ability to come back to life is tied to us having a daedric soul (vestige). As long as we have a vestige, we can continue to revive again and again. The fact that we do not experience permanent death upon getting our mortal soul back from Molag Bal means we must still have the daedric soul too.
This game book is ancient and no longer actual, if there is more recent information, especially when this information is shown. You may remember that by Bethesda what is shown is more important than what is written. This is not some game feature that is shown, that is story based on main character mortality is shown, thus this information is more important than anything else.
There is no fact that the Vestige will not die after receiving the soul. There is no shown story. Gameplay feature is not something that should be taken into account, otherwise we should speak about teleporting horses, teleporting companions, immortal companions (they don't even need the soul gem, are they daedra too?!) and much much more, like taking staves and swords from our insides.Edited by Olauron on November 30, 2021 9:39PMThe Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
Blinx✭✭✭✭✭
✭this is great news as far as I'm concerned, hopefully it wil be the norm going forward3 -
atherusmora✭✭✭atherusmora wrote: »NordSwordnBoard wrote: »You can't duel anywhere in the Deadlands either. You can watch the random Daedra fight each other and spar, but you cannot. I understand Fargrave with all it's doodads, but I guess they finally admit they packed too much into one product for it to function properly.
Banning an advertised aspect of the game really shows these servers are bursting at the seams. They may allow it after the bulk of the population moves to the next new zone.
This displeases me greatly.
Yeah while I think it's good we don't have dueling in Fargrave, I am confused and concerned that we can't duel in the Deadlands. There aren't really any "towns" around (there's one shamble filled village, but the lack of amenities means no one is going to be doing their daily crafting there), the crafting stations that do exist are for special sets (and no one is going to go out of their way to use them for anything other than making those sets), and in general I think there's a lot less clutter around to phase in.
Plus, how epic would it be to duel in the Deadlands? Just in general.
Can’t imagine a Daedric realm more suited for duels than the Deadlands. Daddy Dagon is the Lord of Revolution, Destruction, and Rebellion. The lord of Flame and Flood. Sounds like a fight to me. Combat is a cornerstone of his domain. I can see the logic in keeping dueling out of Fargrave and major towns, but it does seem antithetical to the concept of the Deadlands to disallow dueling.Edited by atherusmora on November 30, 2021 11:26PM(Pet)Magsorc Main
PS4 NA
PvX
Long Live the Queen!!!1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
Actually, the Vestige is technically a mortal, that is the story driving point in the prologue to Blackwood.
Not really as that's the main driving point of the Bangkorai story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:To_Walk_on_Far_Shores
Again, that is the state pre reclaiming soul (it is written in the dialogue in your own link). Anyway, the later content is always more important in Elder Scrolls, and now we have this:
Why don't you just use the amulet yourself? Why do you need me?
"The protective ward is deadly to Daedra. As a mortal, you are perfectly immune to any such dangers. The ward simply bars your way.
Besides, the amulet can only be used by a mortal. That's part of the reason it can destroy the ward."
So the ward won't hurt me?
"As a mortal, you are immune to the harmful effects of the protective ward. As long as it is in place, however, it will prevent either of us from passing through the warded doorway.
That is its primary function, after all."
She may just mean "mortal" as in "not a daedra like herself."
For example, Lamae Bal considers her Blood Scions distinct from mortals. Rada al-Saran likewise considers himself and other vampires as distinct from mortals. Yet Lyranth still happily calls vampire players "mortal."
Vampires can be killed, thus they are mortals. Otherwise prince A'tor should be considered not mortal (and as a result every mortal should be considered not mortal).
Thanks for proving the point that, clearly, a different definition of "mortal" is being used?
Vampires don't consider themselves mortals.
Referring to the player character, Lamae Bal says: "Yes. Mortals quake at the approach of a Blood Scion. You have done well, child. Return to my sanctum."
Rada al-Saran uses "mortals" very frequently in regard to those not of the Gray Host, in one instance saying, "Our dream is within reach and you're still concerned for the mortals? Verandis!"
Verandis Ravenwatch makes his distinction clear, saying, "The Ravenwatch seeks to build a world where mortals and supernaturals can live together in peace."
Fennorian echoes this: "Our liege, Count Verandis, has dedicated us to the cause of peaceful coexistence between mortals and... those of the vampiric persuasion."
Daedra like Lyranth do consider vampires mortals.
Much as has been said, vampires are not impacted by the wards blocking Lyranth. Lyranth calls vampire players "little mortal" just like she does everyone else.
Now, you can subscribe to Lyranth's definition of "mortal" if you want. Just, ah, let's remember that hers is not the only definition out there. The Elder Scrolls is filled with unreliable narrators who think they are correct.4 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I wish they would restrict duels from all towns.
Ideally they’d limit them to specific areas. The Hammerdeath Arena would be great.
Unfortunately Hammerdeath is not very convenient and has very few amenities. When I had to run out there for the Jesters Festival, I was pretty unimpressed with the accessibility.
I'd be all for Hammerdeath Arena, but it needs some upgrades if it's going to compete with the tree near the Stormhaven Undaunted Tents.
What we talking? A new paint job or...?0
