solving tanking in ESO with one skill

Amottica

Wing wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Sounds like easy mode. I don't like it.

sure would suck if we had tanks instead of dps queue'ing as tanks because all of 5 exist and think its fine.

but whatever, queue times speak louder then anyone's words.

But it would not solve that tank problem. I have seen in the threads complaining about fake tanks that the majority of real tanks avoid the GF because of the poor DPS they find in GF groups. So the "solution" does not solve the real problem.

The suggestion is also not likely to make real tanks out of fake tanks because they will not use this skill. They do not care.

kargen27

"Even if a mob spawns right next to a healer, a more or less decent healer will make some distance to that mob and when being chased will dodge roll once or twice and eventually even get closer to you so you can pick that mob up."

Any time when I am healing and get some mob on me I can't ignore I pick what I think is an opportune time and move between the tank and the boss then circle back around so if possible DPS is between me and the tank. That way the tank can grab the thing giving me grief as it goes by.
Archers and other ranged are just a pain in the posterior you can't do much about other than dodge the bigger hits.

"I am not mistaking, I fully understand how tanking is SUPPOSED to work in ESO but it only works on paper. In practical terms it does not work so well, this is easily observable daily. There is a lot of...well people running around like a chicken with it's head cut off."
It actually works very well and people running around is a player problem not a game problem. The tank can with AoE get a passive taunt if allowed to go first and all melee mobs will follow him to the boss. DPS drops their AoE on the melee and boss and then start in on the boss. If ranged mobs become a problem DPS after refreshing AoE or DoT on boss peals off and deals with the most pesky ranged before returning to boss. THe group has to decide for themselves do they have the firepower to burn through ignoring the adds or not. Allows for different groups to deal with the fight in different ways. If a tank could just toss out Caltrops and have everything in the room concentrate on the tank that would lead to really boring fights for all involved. Might as well just put practice dummies scattered through the content.

"If tanks had more utility, namely in an AoE taunt, much of these issues could be resolved."

The game was not designed with an AoE taunt in mind and absolutely does not need one. Sure it would make some encounters easier. It would also make them boring. DPS should have to be aware of their surroundings and where an attack might come from. They should also know how to deal with those attacks. An AoE taunt would mean dungeons would be nothing but one tank and three glass canons.

"And I already stated that a tank does not have the time to take 7 seconds in global cool downs to spam taunt, if their magica/stamina could even put up with it."

Many tanks do this easily. Well not exactly this. They know the biggest threats and they bring those in. It is then up to DPS to knock the mobs down as the tank brings them in. To many DPS become focused only on damage done to the boss and what their numbers look like. Iit is a problem they create for themselves. A decent healer will help keep the tanks resources up. Should be part of the healers rotation making sure the tank gets a resource buff.

Kessra

Raideen wrote: »

I am not mistaking, I fully understand how tanking is SUPPOSED to work in ESO but it only works on paper. In practical terms it does not work so well, this is easily observable daily. There is a lot of...well people running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Simply, the tools do not exist for the tank to "bring coordination" to the fight. In fact the essence of ESO combat is extremely uncoordinated and that is because the roles are not clearly defined, meaning DPS and healers are "designed" to off tank mobs, except this does not always work, which is why we can res during battle. A lot of the core combat mechanics in this game are poorly designed, this is observable. If tanks had more utility, namely in an AOE taunt, much of these issues could be resolved.

[snip] I know plenty of tanks who do not see any needs in any AE-taunt ability. Even here in the thread several people have posted that they don't need such a feature. Just because you had one in WoW doesn't mean ESO needs one to. The mechanics here are totally different. WoW had a threat mechanic where you literally had to fight for the attention and certain skills produced more agro than others and so on. And taunt also set you on top of the threat-table. ESO is different here and very simplistic. Its taunt mechanic lasts for quite some time, more than you actually need. It is more than enough to taunt mob after mob do some other stuff and return to taunting each mob.

Things tanks can use:
Talons (DK), Gripping Shards (Warden), Chains (DK), Silver Leash (Fighters Guild), Frozen Device or Frozen Retreat (Warden), Beconing Armor (Necro), Fossilize/Shattering Rocks (DK), Eruption (DK), Caltrops (Assault-Tree), Agony Totem (Necro), Ghostly Embrace/Empowering Grasp (Necro), Suppression Field/Absorption Field (Sorc), Rune Cage/Defensive Rune (Sorc), Streak (Sorc), Bolstering Darkness/Veil of Blades (NB), Mass Hysteria/Manifestation of terror (NB), Debilitate/Crippling Grasp (NB), Binding Javelin (Templar), Explosive Charge/Toppling Charge (Templar), Solar Prison (Templar), Reflective Light (Templar), Living Dark/Unstable Core (Templar)

Most of those abilities either slow mobs for a short moment or immobilize them so you can pick them up one by one. Each class has at least one spell that can be used for that. Sure, DK, Warden and Necro have, at least IMO, the better overall arsenal available but that does not mean that the other classes are somehow unable to tank. It is just a bit more challenging. But this is simlar to WoW. Tanking on certain classes was different/more challenging than on other classes.

What you basically demand is a way that tanks have instant agro reagardless what they do. This is compareable with when WoW changed tanking to just apply rend and thunderclap and have instand agro of all 10 mobs nearby. That was dull, that made people just brainless as regardless what they did they couldn't get off the agro from the tank. Tanking was also made very boring that way. Just compare tanking in Classic/BC with the stuff that came later on, not sure if it was in Cata or Pandaria, but it was just dull and could be done by anyone smashing some buttons without any effort put into the character.

Raideen wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Seeing healers running around with a bunch of mobs attacking him/her is just a sign that the tank didn't do its job.

And I already stated that a tank does not have the time to take 7 seconds in global cool downs to spam taunt, if their magica/stamina could even put up with it. An AOE taunt would solve this.

Again, you don't need to taunt every trash mob. Use one of the CC abilities in your arsenal or slow them down and then pick up mobs. People haven't had much of problems in all these years. I still remember my first time at level 10 back after ESO launched when I entered Banished Cells and my first thought was also [snip], how am I supposed to tank all of the 6-8 adds there, but you actually don't have to. Run in, apply your CC and start picking up mobs one by one. Usually before you reach the last mob, plenty of mobs, taunted and untaunted, are already dead. Especially nowadays where they are a simple, brainless push-over.

Raideen wrote: »

Yes, again, I fully understand this. This is why I prefaced that I have been tanking for 17 years, I am not new to this. But as I also already stated, tanks in this game simply do not have the toolkit to cover the way many encounters work. I defer back to the world boss in Blackwood who has the two dogs and spawns teams of whatever they are, that heal the boss.
Just because people are getting through encounters and have been since the games inception, does not mean everything works smoothly or need no change.

The toolkit is fine, you just need to learn how to use it properly. As mentioned evey class is able to tank, some are more easy-mode some are a bit more challenging but every class is able to tank and no-class actually requires an AE-taunt. That particular boss you are talking about can actually be soloed as a tank, though it takes some time and potions. But I have done that boss on serveral alts as well and especially on my tanking alts never had major problems on that boss. Maybe because I played the bosses when everyone was farming those for the daily quests or what not but especially if multiple random people of various levels are doing that encounter, you can't protect everyone. Last time I did the boss with a level 30ish random that asked me whether I can help on that boss. That poor guy died a couple of times but after about 20 minutes we had this boss down.There are always some people afking or not using buff-food and thus die instantly when touching a red area or what not. But this is just how things are. DLC open world bosses are for sure not the typical push-over content that the non-DLC areas have and people finally have to adept to that.

Raideen wrote: »

I am designer by trade. The failure with the community in ESO comes from the games design, not migrants from wow or any other game. The games design allows for this abuse. I went over this already. If mobs were more punishing, damage dealers would not rush forward as much because there of the reprecussions, but in order for mobs to be more punishing the tank needs to have a greater toolset for more control over the playfield, like in wow or any other MMORPG. The first place to start here, is an AOE taunt, or like the OP described that every ability a tank uses would cause threat generation.

I agree that content should be more punishing. I have asked this myself in the past though plenty of people, especially ones that prefer to play as lonely wolf are heavily against that. Just look here in the forum. There is a request by someone who more or less demands that everything should be soloable because he does not want to play with other players ... in an MMO ... Sure, everyone should have the freedom to play like s/he wants, though it is questionable whether designers should fulfill every wish. The easy open-world experience is for sure geared towards players that only log in every once in a while, and that is fine to me to some degree but it also doesn't teach the players to get better, which often results in random vet dungeons with DDs barely passing 6k DPS.

In the end though, it is for sure a game design issue which is based on some economic decisions but the last thing we tanks really need is an ae-taunt IMO. If so they should reevaluate the block mechanic first which absorbs to much damage IMO and the one or other block-or-you-die mechanic, especially when servers are laggy and therefore the client doesn't propagate the animation telegraph. That was actually the reason why I quit ESO 3 years ago out of frustration because the group demanded constant support which only is possible by dropping block and if the ability isn't telegraphed beforehand by the boss I continue with the support and got one-shotted through and through. I even had to stream that as people in my raid thought I made things up. And server didn't improve that much since then TBH.

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I fake tank on a dps, only occasionally slotting a taunt if absolutely necessary. You DONT need to use potions. If you learn mechanics as a DPS and slot a self heal (which frankly all DPS should have one) you shouldn’t have a problem. ZOS specifically designed the game so DPS can handle such enemies on their own.

You forget that plenty of alts aren't maxed out yet, don't wear perfect gear and stuff and I have seen plenty of runs were people were dying because they haven't had unlocked their heal yet. Not every melee goes to Cyrodiil at level 10 and unlocks his vigor, sorcs don't have their shield ready at level 10 and so on. But the fake-tanks I have had the "pleasure" to run with didn't care at all. Their though was probably only "Noob" if they even noticed the death of his group mate at all. And this showcases just the ignorance of those. This is clearly not a learn-the-mechanics issue. How shoud a level 10 sorc with no form of healing or shielding survive being slaughtered by 3-5 mobs at once? And trust me, today I had such a lucky guy in my group and guess what, the "tank" was just laughing at this "Noob".

I also don't want to waste time in dungeons when tanking. And I'm for sure also a bit on the faster end of the spectrum in terms of progressing through the dungeons, BUT if one of the members of the group wants to do his quest or asks for the optional bosses I do that for them. Treat others like you want to be treated. I also like when I'm in a group with an alt character and people wait a short moment before pulling a boss so that I can progress with the quest or things like that. These are usually also only seconds the group might lose.

[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

tim77

Like the idea of that skill.
i would use my tank than again for sure. I havent used her AT ALL, since they changed the soft taunt (except for crafting dailys). Back then, I chained enemies, they got pulled to me, turned around straight and run back. ... -.- ---

From that moment i knew, i had a new crafter.
Even removed her gear meanwhile, because she runs faster without lol

That skill or another solution would surely bring her back in the dungeons, but right now she is just waiting for better times.

And I used her a lot before.

M0ntie

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

hafgood

What is being described is a dd problem, not a tank problem. Tanks do not need an AOE taunt.

Dd's just need to learn where to stand and the mechs of the dungeon.

To say an aoe taunt would solve the fake tank problem shows a lack of understanding of the fake tank problem. Fake tanks don't slot a taunt because they rely on their damage carrying the dungeon. They are not going to taunt anything because they wouldn't be able to withstand the damagen

What_In_Tarnation

How ami I supposed to losing taunt and ruin guild trifeca run with this easy mode feature?

Jeremy

Raideen wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Though you do the mistake and expect tanking in ESO should use the same mechanics as it did in WoW, and I tanked in both games as well.

The job of the tank in ESO is mainly to bring coordination to the fight, to position mobs and to have attention of the mobs that bear the greatest danger to the group, which is usually the boss itself or one or two adds. It is definitely NOT the job to tank all mobs or have instant agro of all mobs.

I am not mistaking, I fully understand how tanking is SUPPOSED to work in ESO but it only works on paper. In practical terms it does not work so well, this is easily observable daily. There is a lot of...well people running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Simply, the tools do not exist for the tank to "bring coordination" to the fight. In fact the essence of ESO combat is extremely uncoordinated and that is because the roles are not clearly defined, meaning DPS and healers are "designed" to off tank mobs, except this does not always work, which is why we can res during battle. A lot of the core combat mechanics in this game are poorly designed, this is observable. If tanks had more utility, namely in an AOE taunt, much of these issues could be resolved.

Kessra wrote: »

If you as tank can't sprint that much as you need to watch out for your stamina and over-ambitious DDs are sprinting forward and die as a consequence, that is NOT your fault. It is your fault though when the healer dies because one or two adds two shotted him/her.

You are correct, its not my fault if DD rush forward to attack the mobs, that is the fault of the games design. Damage dealers would not be so brazen if there were real repercussions in a dungeon, like when dying having to run back from the entrance. The games design funnels the player into being more careless than other games, like wow.

Kessra wrote: »

The truth is, most people don't care about mechanics if the content is just a push-over one. And it used to be way more challenging, even on normal. The version we have now is literally fast-food content for people whose attention-span doesn't last for longer than 7 seconds and that can't read and comprehend more than 160 characters at once. In the past it was already possible for 4 DDs, without tank or heal, to rush through dungeons. Though this required the players to be actually good and to some degree coordinated. But now everyone seems to require that for normal dungeon just as they figured out how to solo them on normal difficulty.

I agree completely, but this is just as much fault of the games design as the games design allows for it.

Kessra wrote: »

Seeing healers running around with a bunch of mobs attacking him/her is just a sign that the tank didn't do its job.

And I already stated that a tank does not have the time to take 7 seconds in global cool downs to spam taunt, if their magica/stamina could even put up with it. An AOE taunt would solve this.

Kessra wrote: »

And again, it is not about knowing by heart where random mobs may spawn, but it is how you react as a tank to that situation. In trials usually the position of trash mobs is fixed and thus this random element can for the most part be neglected. Taunt lasts 15 seconds. If you tank the world boss what are you actually spending most of those 15 seconds for that you don't have the time to taunt one of the adds? Even if a mob spawns right next to a healer, a more or less decent healer will make some distance to that mob and when being chased will dodge roll once or twice and eventually even get closer to you so you can pick that mob up. Sure, plenty of people end up in panic mode and just do the opposite, but that is more or less their fault. You can't cure stupid. As a tank situation awareness is quite important. Noone expects you to have the agro of all mobs instantly, but they do expect you to pick up mobs in a reasonable amount of time. And this is related to situation awareness. Looking what is happening left and right of you. Position the mobs so that the rest of the group doesn't have to take uncessesary damage and so on.

Yes, again, I fully understand this. This is why I prefaced that I have been tanking for 17 years, I am not new to this. But as I also already stated, tanks in this game simply do not have the toolkit to cover the way many encounters work. I defer back to the world boss in Blackwood who has the two dogs and spawns teams of whatever they are, that heal the boss.
Just because people are getting through encounters and have been since the games inception, does not mean everything works smoothly or need no change.

Kessra wrote: »

I don't expect people to change either, and I predict that this whole case will get worse and worse over time as there is a level of toxicity among the playerbase rising that isn't good for the game at all. If this is somehow related to the issues WoW currently has and their community now exploring other MMOs or might be related to the whole pandemic stuff or something else, I don't know. I only know that ZOS really needs to reevaluate the current system and eventually make normal dungeons a bit more challenging and nerf damage of DPS to a degree where soloing normal dungeons isn't that easy and actually requires group play.

I am designer by trade. The failure with the community in ESO comes from the games design, not migrants from wow or any other game. The games design allows for this abuse. I went over this already. If mobs were more punishing, damage dealers would not rush forward as much because there of the reprecussions, but in order for mobs to be more punishing the tank needs to have a greater toolset for more control over the playfield, like in wow or any other MMORPG. The first place to start here, is an AOE taunt, or like the OP described that every ability a tank uses would cause threat generation.

Kessra wrote: »

I still remember before One Tamriel where top DDs were able to do 10 maybe with plenty of luck 12k dps, I was raiding with the guy who surpassed 30k for the first time ever and quit the game almost 3 years ago when top-DDs were roughly able to do 75k DPS. And now, almost 3 years later DDs surpased 200k DPS. There is a constant power-creep in this game that invalidates content, allows you to skip plenty of mechanics and thus dangers and therefore degenerates players to pure DPS machines without any second though on how to improve situation awareness or other important parts of the game. I'm pretty sure most people out there don't know how to play the lunar phase at Rakkhat, final boss of Maw of Lorkhaj (MOL), simply because they were never forced to. This somehow reflects in the way people play and behave in dungeons and injects so much toxicity into the game for no reason.

And again, the players are reacting to the games design. Everything we are talking about in regards to how players act, starts and ends with the games design.

There is a lot of theory involved in "tanking" on ESO that isn't really applicable in real time. So I think I understand what you are saying.

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive. For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

So I'd just like to announce that I am now on the side of those who say this game would benefit from an AoE taunt. After many years of playing this game as a tank I think it would just be better for this game in general if they added one.

Amottica

Kessra wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

I am not mistaking, I fully understand how tanking is SUPPOSED to work in ESO but it only works on paper. In practical terms it does not work so well, this is easily observable daily. There is a lot of...well people running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Simply, the tools do not exist for the tank to "bring coordination" to the fight. In fact the essence of ESO combat is extremely uncoordinated and that is because the roles are not clearly defined, meaning DPS and healers are "designed" to off tank mobs, except this does not always work, which is why we can res during battle. A lot of the core combat mechanics in this game are poorly designed, this is observable. If tanks had more utility, namely in an AOE taunt, much of these issues could be resolved.

[snip] I know plenty of tanks who do not see any needs in any AE-taunt ability. Even here in the thread several people have posted that they don't need such a feature. Just because you had one in WoW doesn't mean ESO needs one to. The mechanics here are totally different. WoW had a threat mechanic where you literally had to fight for the attention and certain skills produced more agro than others and so on. And taunt also set you on top of the threat-table. ESO is different here and very simplistic. Its taunt mechanic lasts for quite some time, more than you actually need. It is more than enough to taunt mob after mob do some other stuff and return to taunting each mob.

Things tanks can use:
Talons (DK), Gripping Shards (Warden), Chains (DK), Silver Leash (Fighters Guild), Frozen Device or Frozen Retreat (Warden), Beconing Armor (Necro), Fossilize/Shattering Rocks (DK), Eruption (DK), Caltrops (Assault-Tree), Agony Totem (Necro), Ghostly Embrace/Empowering Grasp (Necro), Suppression Field/Absorption Field (Sorc), Rune Cage/Defensive Rune (Sorc), Streak (Sorc), Bolstering Darkness/Veil of Blades (NB), Mass Hysteria/Manifestation of terror (NB), Debilitate/Crippling Grasp (NB), Binding Javelin (Templar), Explosive Charge/Toppling Charge (Templar), Solar Prison (Templar), Reflective Light (Templar), Living Dark/Unstable Core (Templar)

Most of those abilities either slow mobs for a short moment or immobilize them so you can pick them up one by one. Each class has at least one spell that can be used for that. Sure, DK, Warden and Necro have, at least IMO, the better overall arsenal available but that does not mean that the other classes are somehow unable to tank. It is just a bit more challenging. But this is simlar to WoW. Tanking on certain classes was different/more challenging than on other classes.

What you basically demand is a way that tanks have instant agro reagardless what they do. This is compareable with when WoW changed tanking to just apply rend and thunderclap and have instand agro of all 10 mobs nearby. That was dull, that made people just brainless as regardless what they did they couldn't get off the agro from the tank. Tanking was also made very boring that way. Just compare tanking in Classic/BC with the stuff that came later on, not sure if it was in Cata or Pandaria, but it was just dull and could be done by anyone smashing some buttons without any effort put into the character.

Raideen wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Seeing healers running around with a bunch of mobs attacking him/her is just a sign that the tank didn't do its job.

And I already stated that a tank does not have the time to take 7 seconds in global cool downs to spam taunt, if their magica/stamina could even put up with it. An AOE taunt would solve this.

Again, you don't need to taunt every trash mob. Use one of the CC abilities in your arsenal or slow them down and then pick up mobs. People haven't had much of problems in all these years. I still remember my first time at level 10 back after ESO launched when I entered Banished Cells and my first thought was also [snip], how am I supposed to tank all of the 6-8 adds there, but you actually don't have to. Run in, apply your CC and start picking up mobs one by one. Usually before you reach the last mob, plenty of mobs, taunted and untaunted, are already dead. Especially nowadays where they are a simple, brainless push-over.

Raideen wrote: »

Yes, again, I fully understand this. This is why I prefaced that I have been tanking for 17 years, I am not new to this. But as I also already stated, tanks in this game simply do not have the toolkit to cover the way many encounters work. I defer back to the world boss in Blackwood who has the two dogs and spawns teams of whatever they are, that heal the boss.
Just because people are getting through encounters and have been since the games inception, does not mean everything works smoothly or need no change.

The toolkit is fine, you just need to learn how to use it properly. As mentioned evey class is able to tank, some are more easy-mode some are a bit more challenging but every class is able to tank and no-class actually requires an AE-taunt. That particular boss you are talking about can actually be soloed as a tank, though it takes some time and potions. But I have done that boss on serveral alts as well and especially on my tanking alts never had major problems on that boss. Maybe because I played the bosses when everyone was farming those for the daily quests or what not but especially if multiple random people of various levels are doing that encounter, you can't protect everyone. Last time I did the boss with a level 30ish random that asked me whether I can help on that boss. That poor guy died a couple of times but after about 20 minutes we had this boss down.There are always some people afking or not using buff-food and thus die instantly when touching a red area or what not. But this is just how things are. DLC open world bosses are for sure not the typical push-over content that the non-DLC areas have and people finally have to adept to that.

Raideen wrote: »

I am designer by trade. The failure with the community in ESO comes from the games design, not migrants from wow or any other game. The games design allows for this abuse. I went over this already. If mobs were more punishing, damage dealers would not rush forward as much because there of the reprecussions, but in order for mobs to be more punishing the tank needs to have a greater toolset for more control over the playfield, like in wow or any other MMORPG. The first place to start here, is an AOE taunt, or like the OP described that every ability a tank uses would cause threat generation.

I agree that content should be more punishing. I have asked this myself in the past though plenty of people, especially ones that prefer to play as lonely wolf are heavily against that. Just look here in the forum. There is a request by someone who more or less demands that everything should be soloable because he does not want to play with other players ... in an MMO ... Sure, everyone should have the freedom to play like s/he wants, though it is questionable whether designers should fulfill every wish. The easy open-world experience is for sure geared towards players that only log in every once in a while, and that is fine to me to some degree but it also doesn't teach the players to get better, which often results in random vet dungeons with DDs barely passing 6k DPS.

In the end though, it is for sure a game design issue which is based on some economic decisions but the last thing we tanks really need is an ae-taunt IMO. If so they should reevaluate the block mechanic first which absorbs to much damage IMO and the one or other block-or-you-die mechanic, especially when servers are laggy and therefore the client doesn't propagate the animation telegraph. That was actually the reason why I quit ESO 3 years ago out of frustration because the group demanded constant support which only is possible by dropping block and if the ability isn't telegraphed beforehand by the boss I continue with the support and got one-shotted through and through. I even had to stream that as people in my raid thought I made things up. And server didn't improve that much since then TBH.

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I fake tank on a dps, only occasionally slotting a taunt if absolutely necessary. You DONT need to use potions. If you learn mechanics as a DPS and slot a self heal (which frankly all DPS should have one) you shouldn’t have a problem. ZOS specifically designed the game so DPS can handle such enemies on their own.

You forget that plenty of alts aren't maxed out yet, don't wear perfect gear and stuff and I have seen plenty of runs were people were dying because they haven't had unlocked their heal yet. Not every melee goes to Cyrodiil at level 10 and unlocks his vigor, sorcs don't have their shield ready at level 10 and so on. But the fake-tanks I have had the "pleasure" to run with didn't care at all. Their though was probably only "Noob" if they even noticed the death of his group mate at all. And this showcases just the ignorance of those. This is clearly not a learn-the-mechanics issue. How shoud a level 10 sorc with no form of healing or shielding survive being slaughtered by 3-5 mobs at once? And trust me, today I had such a lucky guy in my group and guess what, the "tank" was just laughing at this "Noob".

I also don't want to waste time in dungeons when tanking. And I'm for sure also a bit on the faster end of the spectrum in terms of progressing through the dungeons, BUT if one of the members of the group wants to do his quest or asks for the optional bosses I do that for them. Treat others like you want to be treated. I also like when I'm in a group with an alt character and people wait a short moment before pulling a boss so that I can progress with the quest or things like that. These are usually also only seconds the group might lose.

I agree.

While I have not cleared all content in ESO, I have seen much of it tanked successfully with the current design. It would seem that the most challenging content has been tanked which would demonstrate that the tanking designing ESO works very well in actual practice.

[edited to remove quote]

ResidentContrarian

Why do these topics pop up every once in a while?

The real solution is better communication between TEAMmates.

Kessra

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

Chrysa1is

Won't work on players. Lol.

Chrysa1is

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Who is this solving tanking for?

The OP lol

etchedpixels

Wing wrote: »

Skill - Threat
Type - Toggle

effect: while this skill is active any enemies you damage will be taunted, whether ability, basic attack, bash, etc. any damage.
further more while active you benefit from Major Toughness and Major Protection, increasing your max health and reducing your damage taken. however you also suffer from major maim, reducing your damage done.


tada

Doesn't belong as a skill IMHO - you've got a bunch of taunt skills already and you can slot the undaunted one on any character just fine (quite a few high end folks doing normal dungeons have the decency to not fake tank by just slotting the undaunted skill and knowing how to use heals/shields/block)

For normal dungeons you can just wear tormentor and use a suitable gap closer, leap and taunt the entire blast radius.

On higher level content you also don't want too much taunting because if you pull everything in some vet DLC content your tank will fairly rapidly be turned into a damp spot on the flagstones.

kojou

I think I agree with the sentiment of those that think this would make tanking boring. It can already be quite boring on some bosses, and with this feature I could just tape down my right mouse button, set up a macro for buffing and debuffing, wear the monster set that chains in the ranged adds, and drink beer during dungeons... so to save me from becoming an alcoholic I vote "no" on this feature.

BXR_Lonestar

There's already a host of sets that can give you this effect. I think it is the Tormenter set from, the void bash set from Vateshraan hallows, and the Rush of Agony set from the Dread Celler. All of those sets have mechanics to either agro a group or pull a group in to the tank. If your struggling with group tanking, just use one of those sets.

Jeremy

Kessra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way. I just didn't want to use names but also wanted to give players an example to relate to. That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

Jeremy

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

There's already a host of sets that can give you this effect. I think it is the Tormenter set from, the void bash set from Vateshraan hallows, and the Rush of Agony set from the Dread Celler. All of those sets have mechanics to either agro a group or pull a group in to the tank. If your struggling with group tanking, just use one of those sets.

Tormenter set doesn't give you major toughness and major protection. It adds a little to max health, but not much. It also only effects certain abilities like the movement-related ones that charge or teleport. So it's not even in the same universe as as the ability the OP advertises. Which I would agree with others is probably just a tad overpowered. lol

I wasn't that impressed with Void Bash either. It doesn't last long enough or needs a faster cool down IMHO. So that move is like crap compared to the OP's toggle.

I haven't tried Rush of Agony yet so I can't comment on that one.

bmnoble

M0ntie wrote: »

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

Can you imagine it on default on a fake DPS or even a real tank, then you get the ogre fight in scale caller or the fight with 3 bosses in march of sacrifice all with those pain in the ass aura's that stack to make them stronger as example?

It would tie the hands of a real tank since any damage they do would now taunt the other bosses, meaning they would be less likely to use debuff skills on the extra bosses due to a lot of them dealing some form of damage.

As for the fake tanks depending on who you get, you just end up with repeated group wipes due to them dragging all the bosses together.


Would I mind if they added a group taunt no, do I like the way the OP suggested as an alternative no. To me the mob density in this game is far too low to need a group taunt, only ever been a handful of dungeons where I have needed to taunt a number of dangerous ads in addition to the boss, I would likely just end up using a group taunt for kill grinding.

Amottica

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way. I just didn't want to use names but also wanted to give players an example to relate to. That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

I would suggest that the "weak DPS you are referring to is the one that can use some help in the form of guidance and experience so they learn how to play better is in no way a justification for the suggestion made in this thread or an AoE taunt of any kind.

noblecron

I'd love an AOE taunt or something in some dungeons especially Depths of Malatar

KhajiitLivesMatter

to all mods trying to ban me this is not a troll or bait

M0ntie wrote: »

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

no they wouldnt they would lose 10% dmg and get 10% defense which translates to less self heal - bit mor dmg
they would still lose dmg but if u can do like 95% of ur normal dmg thats still good enought to be worth faking a role

Jeremy

kojou wrote: »

I think I agree with the sentiment of those that think this would make tanking boring. It can already be quite boring on some bosses, and with this feature I could just tape down my right mouse button, set up a macro for buffing and debuffing, wear the monster set that chains in the ranged adds, and drink beer during dungeons... so to save me from becoming an alcoholic I vote "no" on this feature.

bmnoble wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

Can you imagine it on default on a fake DPS or even a real tank, then you get the ogre fight in scale caller or the fight with 3 bosses in march of sacrifice all with those pain in the ass aura's that stack to make them stronger as example?

It would tie the hands of a real tank since any damage they do would now taunt the other bosses, meaning they would be less likely to use debuff skills on the extra bosses due to a lot of them dealing some form of damage.

As for the fake tanks depending on who you get, you just end up with repeated group wipes due to them dragging all the bosses together.


Would I mind if they added a group taunt no, do I like the way the OP suggested as an alternative no. To me the mob density in this game is far too low to need a group taunt, only ever been a handful of dungeons where I have needed to taunt a number of dangerous ads in addition to the boss, I would likely just end up using a group taunt for kill grinding.

Amottica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way. I just didn't want to use names but also wanted to give players an example to relate to. That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

I would suggest that the "weak DPS you are referring to is the one that can use some help in the form of guidance and experience so they learn how to play better is in no way a justification for the suggestion made in this thread or an AoE taunt of any kind.

That end fight in Banished Cells II is justification for an AoE taunt right there, on it's own, and is proof this game needs an AoE taunt. Try doing that fight as a tank in a pug with low DPS. Nobody deserves to go through that. Not even a convicted felon.

Jeremy

noblecron wrote: »

I'd love an AOE taunt or something in some dungeons especially Depths of Malatar

It does help - immensely - in that one.

In fact: I did that one on Veteran just the other day wearing Torment Set and it was like night and day when compared to doing it with a crappy single target taunt. So much more enjoyable as a tank. Though I did have to fall back to spamming Inner Rage on the guy who clones.

Amottica

Jeremy wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I think I agree with the sentiment of those that think this would make tanking boring. It can already be quite boring on some bosses, and with this feature I could just tape down my right mouse button, set up a macro for buffing and debuffing, wear the monster set that chains in the ranged adds, and drink beer during dungeons... so to save me from becoming an alcoholic I vote "no" on this feature.

bmnoble wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

Can you imagine it on default on a fake DPS or even a real tank, then you get the ogre fight in scale caller or the fight with 3 bosses in march of sacrifice all with those pain in the ass aura's that stack to make them stronger as example?

It would tie the hands of a real tank since any damage they do would now taunt the other bosses, meaning they would be less likely to use debuff skills on the extra bosses due to a lot of them dealing some form of damage.

As for the fake tanks depending on who you get, you just end up with repeated group wipes due to them dragging all the bosses together.


Would I mind if they added a group taunt no, do I like the way the OP suggested as an alternative no. To me the mob density in this game is far too low to need a group taunt, only ever been a handful of dungeons where I have needed to taunt a number of dangerous ads in addition to the boss, I would likely just end up using a group taunt for kill grinding.

Amottica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way. I just didn't want to use names but also wanted to give players an example to relate to. That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

I would suggest that the "weak DPS you are referring to is the one that can use some help in the form of guidance and experience so they learn how to play better is in no way a justification for the suggestion made in this thread or an AoE taunt of any kind.

That end fight in Banished Cells II is justification for an AoE taunt right there, on it's own, and is proof this game needs an AoE taunt. Try doing that fight as a tank in a pug with low DPS. Nobody deserves to go through that. Not even a convicted felon.

I am assuming you are speaking of vet HM, not normal. Since it has been tanked successfully a great many times, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times, since the game has launched it is clear that fight is not a justification for an AoE taunt. If anything else, a novice tank will improve their skill by tanking that fight.

I have been playing ESO for less than a year, just started tanking recently, and have tanked that fight for the HM clear without issue.

With a pug group it is simple, kill all daedroth until the boss hits X health. Then hold off on boss until the daedroth are being held by the gank. Then execute boss. This is the advice my guild gave me when I first tanked that fight. Granted, it assumes the players pay attention but their lack of doing so is not justification for an AoE taunt.

Jeremy

Amottica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I think I agree with the sentiment of those that think this would make tanking boring. It can already be quite boring on some bosses, and with this feature I could just tape down my right mouse button, set up a macro for buffing and debuffing, wear the monster set that chains in the ranged adds, and drink beer during dungeons... so to save me from becoming an alcoholic I vote "no" on this feature.

bmnoble wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

Can you imagine it on default on a fake DPS or even a real tank, then you get the ogre fight in scale caller or the fight with 3 bosses in march of sacrifice all with those pain in the ass aura's that stack to make them stronger as example?

It would tie the hands of a real tank since any damage they do would now taunt the other bosses, meaning they would be less likely to use debuff skills on the extra bosses due to a lot of them dealing some form of damage.

As for the fake tanks depending on who you get, you just end up with repeated group wipes due to them dragging all the bosses together.


Would I mind if they added a group taunt no, do I like the way the OP suggested as an alternative no. To me the mob density in this game is far too low to need a group taunt, only ever been a handful of dungeons where I have needed to taunt a number of dangerous ads in addition to the boss, I would likely just end up using a group taunt for kill grinding.

Amottica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way. I just didn't want to use names but also wanted to give players an example to relate to. That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

I would suggest that the "weak DPS you are referring to is the one that can use some help in the form of guidance and experience so they learn how to play better is in no way a justification for the suggestion made in this thread or an AoE taunt of any kind.

That end fight in Banished Cells II is justification for an AoE taunt right there, on it's own, and is proof this game needs an AoE taunt. Try doing that fight as a tank in a pug with low DPS. Nobody deserves to go through that. Not even a convicted felon.

I am assuming you are speaking of vet HM, not normal. Since it has been tanked successfully a great many times, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times, since the game has launched it is clear that fight is not a justification for an AoE taunt. If anything else, a novice tank will improve their skill by tanking that fight.

I have been playing ESO for less than a year, just started tanking recently, and have tanked that fight for the HM clear without issue.

With a pug group it is simple, kill all daedroth until the boss hits X health. Then hold off on boss until the daedroth are being held by the gank. Then execute boss. This is the advice my guild gave me when I first tanked that fight. Granted, it assumes the players pay attention but their lack of doing so is not justification for an AoE taunt.

Try pugging it in a group with low DPS where killing all the Daedrath is not an option as they spawn faster then the group can kill them. Then get back to me. Because no tank should ever have to suffer that much. And the very last thing a fight like that will do is improve a novice tank. It will traumatize them more likely and create one less tank in Tamriel. It certainly won't teach them anything of value except that sometimes pugging can suck monkey _____.

There are other fights too I that I would argue justify a group taunt. The Dark Orb fight in Depths of Malatarr is another good example. Having a group taunt on that fight made that one so much more fun to tank.

Adding an AoE taunt to this game would just generally improve the quality of life for tanks in this game. It's like I said earlier, there are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this one of them. So I have come to the conclusion - after experimenting with AoE taunts for a few months now - that there is just no good reason not to add one. It makes tanking so much more enjoyable, especially when playing with defensively weak party members who need group-wide tanking to survive. If you don't need or want to use one, that's fine. I'm not suggesting tanks should be forced to use one. But there needs to be that option for those who do, and preferably in the form of an ability that all tanks have access to.

Kessra

Jeremy wrote: »

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way.

Sorry, but tanking is the same regardless whether you are in a weak group or not. Maybe you have to hold a coulple more adds. But if players are really that bad as you say they are, probably that content isn't meant for them? There are certain requirements to players that attempt vet DLC dungeons including hardmodes. We already talked before that one of the issues is that with high damage plenty of mechanics can be skipped. The other one is that with not enough damage the encounter is almost unbeatable. While we may discuss about the design flaw on the former one, the latter one is for sure intended. If there are no challenges, people will not improve. And this can be seen already by your explanations.

You are literally saying all the other are noobs and you are the only skilled one in that group and as tank it is your duty to carry them through the dungeon. These people need to realize that they have to get better. In the words of Josh Strife Hayes the simplest way to achieve that is by letting them fail, and fail again and again. They either will give up or learn to improve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ9GXlP8E7M

And his advice is a universal one so not only for ESO. We shouldn't adapt the difficulty to the weakest one as then there are no things left in this game where you can grow as player and get better. The result of the mostly lax content is that most people think that when they reach CP 300 and thus are eligible to queue for vet DLC dungeons they have everything needed to beat that content. In theroy yes, but the game assumes you that you know how to play, how to do damage and avoid stuff.

Low DPS usually is a result of multiple factors. Either they die early and/or often or they simply do not have a solid rotation and/or gear-choice. They might have copied a build from someone else, probably one of Alcast, which simply put does not work for their style of playing or knowledge about mechanics. While CPs in itself does not tell anything about the personal skill level of a player it is though to some degree an indicator of how much time that player has spent in the game. I have seen CP 300ish players pumping out insane DPS but I also have seen CP 1600+ players doing 6k DPS on a DD toon. Therefore increasing the CP cap on newer DLC dungeons will not solve the problem. People have to fail at some point to realize that they need to improve. Think about their gear and skills they are using and about training their rotation. ZOS for sure should improve their tutorials and explain at some point the priority system to new players, i.e. that higher priority abilities cancel out lower ones and that these can be used to cancel animations of lower ones without losing any damage. Just left click and when the arm of your toon start to move use one of your skills will lead to interrupting the animation of the light attack (left click) and instantly apply the animation of the skill. Though the damage of the light attack is front-based and therefore will go off regardless that its animation was canceled. Therefore people need to train do do light attacks before each skill and cancel the animations with skills or dodge-roll/block. This will for sure require some "boring" time at the damage dummy, but that is honestly the only way a DD can improve his/her damage over time.

Jeremy wrote: »

That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

Please stop it here. Multiple people have already told you that the current mechanics of tanking are fine and work therefore this isn't only theoretical. An AE taun will not increase the damage of your (bad) group, it will just simplify your life as tank as you don't have to pay attention to your surrondings that much. If people start to run away with mobs in their back, they need to fail and realize that running towards you is more benefitial. As mentioned before, you can't rescure everyone. I was yesterday in Frostvault where a rather strange healer permanently performed suicide during the Vault Protector (3rd Boss) encounter for some strange reason. S/He was not dodge-rolling through lasers nor hiding behind the sphere, no, s/he was chaising the lasers. I guess s/he died like 7-8 times during that fight. You can't rescue such people.

Jeremy wrote: »

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

And an AE taunt would be interesting gameplay? What will you do in the remaining time? Hold right mouse button only? Sounds very appealing to me ...

And you barely ever have more than 5-6 mobs at a time if if so, not every mob is worth to be tanked. Maybe the damage focus is not appropriate in your group and you focus the wrong target therefore.

Jeremy wrote: »

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

IMO you are just lazy and may lack situation awareness. And fine, this is a game for enjoyment after all and not everyone wants to be challenged all the time. I don't mind when ZOS is offering some sets that allow you to basically AE-tank, if you can't keep attention of mobs otherwise, but there should never be a skill or passive there that allows you to do that. Such as set will more or less take away other nice benefits.

Jeremy wrote: »

That end fight in Banished Cells II is justification for an AoE taunt right there, on it's own, and is proof this game needs an AoE taunt. Try doing that fight as a tank in a pug with low DPS. Nobody deserves to go through that. Not even a convicted felon.

And again, no! This encounter is designed in a way that is gets chaotic towards the end. This is a thing where you and your group simply need to improve if you fail on that. I also tanked this encounter with a very low dps group who activated hardmode and after having 8 daedroth, which all stick to me for 98% of the fight, we still wiped. This is just how things are. If the group isn't good enough the encounter should not be beatable by that group.

Jeremy wrote: »

noblecron wrote: »

I'd love an AOE taunt or something in some dungeons especially Depths of Malatar

It does help - immensely - in that one.

In fact: I did that one on Veteran just the other day wearing Torment Set and it was like night and day when compared to doing it with a crappy single target taunt. So much more enjoyable as a tank. Though I did have to fall back to spamming Inner Rage on the guy who clones.

Then please wear that set but stop argumenting why this game needs an AE taunt. You have one with that set. That should be sufficient. Plenty of tanks mastered that dungeon with a single-taunt. So it is beatable therefore.

Jeremy wrote: »

Try pugging it in a group with low DPS where killing all the Daedrath is not an option as they spawn faster then the group can kill them. Then get back to me. Because no tank should ever have to suffer that much.

And how does the AE-taunt improve the damage situation of the group here? This is clearly a damage issue that later on gets to a tanking issue. It's as simple as that. As mentioned before. If the players aren't ready for a particular content, the game will tell you that on certain ocasions. And that for sure was one of those.

What you should have done in that situation is analyze what the group is doing wrong, i.e. they die to often or they do an attack every now and then. DPS probably won't skyrocket when people are not familar with damage rotations and stuff, but at one point it is also fair to say that these people aren't ready yet for that particular content and giving them a hint on what they should focus on to improve their damage. You might end up on an ignore list that way, but it is unfortunately just the truth.

Jeremy wrote: »

And the very last thing that fight will do is improve a novice tank. It will traumatize them more likely and create one less tank in Tamriel. It certainly won't teach them anything of value except that sometimes pugging can suck monkey _____.

I agree that it is disappointing to abandon a group when you're facing the final boss and spent all the time and resources to get there. But at a certain point the ceiling of the group is reached where they can't perform better. Trying to sit-out the fight when it actually demands a bit of damage doesn't work here. You need to accept that. An AE-taun does not help here other than grant you time to do what? I doubt that your damage on the boss was the missing piece in that situation. Therefore we have a classical x-y problem.

Jeremy wrote: »

There are other fights too I that I would argue justify a group taunt. The Dark Orb fight in Depths of Maltarr is another good example. Having a group taunt on that fight made that one so much more fun to tank.

Ok, everyone defines fun differently. I wouldn't call that fun, maybe convenient is the more fitting word IMO. But you didn't say yet what you will do with the "time" you won by AE-taunting?

Jeremy wrote: »

Adding an AoE taunt to this game would just generally improve the quality of life for tanks in this game.

Having someone to do all of my crafting writes, doing all the tedious stuff would also be a massive quality of life feature that though takes away much of the backing stuff that lets you actually enjoy the good stuff even more.

Jeremy wrote: »

It's like I said earlier, there are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this one of them.

Mostly because the game is damage centric and you make the game easier by having lots of damage. Tanks deal almost to none damage compared to good DPS and for normal content you don't really need a tank (or a healer).

Plenty of people also think that tanking is hard, which it is not. I consider tanking the easiest of the three roles TBH. You might have a bit higher barrier of entrance, though once you figured out how things work, it is pretty easy. Dealing damage is though a bit different beast. You depend on your rotation, on the skills you use, on the gear on the latency and stuff like that to perform really good. The 200k+ DPS build i.e. only works at a special location. Realistically 160k+ DPS can be expected of really good DPS and they probably spent hours after hours in front of the dummy to find the gear and rotation that fits their style.

Jeremy wrote: »

So I have come to the conclusion - after experimenting with AoE taunts for a few months now - that there is just no good reason not to add one. It makes tanking so much more enjoyable, especially when playing with defensively weak party members who need group-wide tanking to survive. If you don't need or want to use one, that's fine. I'm not suggesting tanks should be forced to use one. But there needs to be that option for those who do.

As you have a set that is able to AE-taunt why do you still insist on an AE taunt ability? I don't get it. Wear your set with pride and have fun with it. Most tanks don't need it or an AE-taunt in general. Just because you have fun with the set now all of a sudden a skill needs to be implemented that mimics that feature so you can wear other stuff just because you confuse fun with convenient? Fine with a set, but against a skill or ability.

Amottica

Jeremy wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I think I agree with the sentiment of those that think this would make tanking boring. It can already be quite boring on some bosses, and with this feature I could just tape down my right mouse button, set up a macro for buffing and debuffing, wear the monster set that chains in the ranged adds, and drink beer during dungeons... so to save me from becoming an alcoholic I vote "no" on this feature.

bmnoble wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

It would solve the fake tank problem on random normal dungeons if this was on for whoever queued as tank. Then they'd have to do the job the signed up for.

Can you imagine it on default on a fake DPS or even a real tank, then you get the ogre fight in scale caller or the fight with 3 bosses in march of sacrifice all with those pain in the ass aura's that stack to make them stronger as example?

It would tie the hands of a real tank since any damage they do would now taunt the other bosses, meaning they would be less likely to use debuff skills on the extra bosses due to a lot of them dealing some form of damage.

As for the fake tanks depending on who you get, you just end up with repeated group wipes due to them dragging all the bosses together.


Would I mind if they added a group taunt no, do I like the way the OP suggested as an alternative no. To me the mob density in this game is far too low to need a group taunt, only ever been a handful of dungeons where I have needed to taunt a number of dangerous ads in addition to the boss, I would likely just end up using a group taunt for kill grinding.

Amottica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I used to be indifferent to the idea of an area taunt. But I've come to the conclusion it is actually needed on this game. There are a lot of fights (banished cells 2 final boss for example) that can be an absolute nightmare with single target taunts. There is also the game's targeting system itself to take into account, which is frequently obstructed and not ideal for picking out specific targets from a pack. It also makes it very difficult to play with defensively weak party members who really need all the mobs tanked to stay alive.

Ever thought that this more or less chaotic fight towards the end is actually intended by the devs?

Lets take an other fight in comparison, which is actually similar in style. The mage in Aetherian Archive. A tank here usually doesn't tank the boss here but weapons that spawn during the fight. The spawn locations of the weapons can more or less be controlled by taunting the boss as then she will look at the tank and the weapons will spanw left and right of her. If you have a low-damage group, you might be forced to tank 5 or more weapons. And they might kill you if you run out of resources, and they will for sure kill non-tank classes. Especially when you do hardmode and the attronachs are added to the mix the whole situation might quickly get unmanageable for inexperienced tanks. An AE taun for sure will be helpful to get control into the situation, though that spell will be used non-stop througout the fight and thus trivialize the content to a degree where any other ability in the tank toolkit is irrelevant. Throw away the melee taunt as it can be replaced with the AE version. Weapons and attronachs in that encounter are a form of DPS and skill check. The more skilled the tank is, the more time s/he gains for the group to kill the mage which also allows not-so top-notch dps-groups to kill her. In the end it boils down how well the tank is able to manage his resources and remember which adds he taunted. But usually the weapons spread around you and you can rotate through them and keep them taunted, which simplifies keeping track of which weapons to taunt. Giving tanks an AE taunt here would trivialize that encounter notably besides allowing tanks to sit behind their shield and taking almost to no damage at all.

Tanking is already relativly easy once you figured out how to deal with multi-mob fights and leraned abilities and spawn-locations of mobs in dungeon/trials. It is not like in WoW where you constantly have to fight for agro and thus have to focus on that particular mob all of the time or perform 2-3 styles per mob and rotate through multiple mobs. Once you taunted you have 15 seconds on that mob where you can do other things and that mob will attack you. You could potentially tank 14 mobs at once without loosing one and without any ae-taunt. Luckily that game doesn't throw that many adds at you at once, and if so some of them are for sure not worth being tanked.

Jeremy wrote: »

For example: I gave up trying to keep my DPS Bastian/Mirri alive with a single target taunt. lol It was maddening and it severely hampers the gameplay of the tank, reducing them to spamming a single move and making the game miserable and boring. I personally have started using the Torment Set and haven't looked back.

You honestly take one of your companions as reason why ESO needs an AE taunt? Really? Don't get me wrong, especially as tank they are helpful when questing solo as they surely help kiling things quicker. But their defensiv behavior is almost non-existing. They use abilities from left to right depending on what is on CD and what isn't but lack the ability to decide what is appropriate in the current situation. Typical example: Red circle below Miri. She dodge rolls into the next red circle and keeps there. This is how smart the AI is.

I was just using companions as an example of a defensively weak DPS who needs pro active tanking. A lot of players are the same way. I just didn't want to use names but also wanted to give players an example to relate to. That's why I say It's mostly theoretical that tanks on ESO are just suppose to run around and taunt the hard hitting mobs. It may sound good, but real life (in game terms) - especially if you pug a lot - doesn't work that way. Maybe in your organized trial runs you can get away with that. But out in the real world you're going to have a lot of failed pugs if you try to tank like that, especially in the harder DLC stuff.

And while it may be "relatively easy" to spam a taunt, it's not particular interesting gameplay either. And you only have 15 seconds if you only taunt one mob. If you taunt multiple mobs that 15 second window becomes considerably shorter.

Like I've said: I've been tanking on this game for years and after using AoE taunting compared to not using it, I've decided tanking is more interesting, effective, and fun on this game with an AoE taunt. There is also plenty of AoE and random damage on this game to keep the DPS on their toes. So I disagree that it turns the game into easy mode or trivializes the content. I believe it enhances the content, especially for the tank, and makes the game better not worse. There are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this is one of them.

I would suggest that the "weak DPS you are referring to is the one that can use some help in the form of guidance and experience so they learn how to play better is in no way a justification for the suggestion made in this thread or an AoE taunt of any kind.

That end fight in Banished Cells II is justification for an AoE taunt right there, on it's own, and is proof this game needs an AoE taunt. Try doing that fight as a tank in a pug with low DPS. Nobody deserves to go through that. Not even a convicted felon.

I am assuming you are speaking of vet HM, not normal. Since it has been tanked successfully a great many times, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of times, since the game has launched it is clear that fight is not a justification for an AoE taunt. If anything else, a novice tank will improve their skill by tanking that fight.

I have been playing ESO for less than a year, just started tanking recently, and have tanked that fight for the HM clear without issue.

With a pug group it is simple, kill all daedroth until the boss hits X health. Then hold off on boss until the daedroth are being held by the gank. Then execute boss. This is the advice my guild gave me when I first tanked that fight. Granted, it assumes the players pay attention but their lack of doing so is not justification for an AoE taunt.

Try pugging it in a group with low DPS where killing all the Daedrath is not an option as they spawn faster then the group can kill them. Then get back to me. Because no tank should ever have to suffer that much. And the very last thing a fight like that will do is improve a novice tank. It will traumatize them more likely and create one less tank in Tamriel. It certainly won't teach them anything of value except that sometimes pugging can suck monkey _____.

There are other fights too I that I would argue justify a group taunt. The Dark Orb fight in Depths of Malatarr is another good example. Having a group taunt on that fight made that one so much more fun to tank.

Adding an AoE taunt to this game would just generally improve the quality of life for tanks in this game. It's like I said earlier, there are reasons so few people like to play tanks on this game, and this one of them. So I have come to the conclusion - after experimenting with AoE taunts for a few months now - that there is just no good reason not to add one. It makes tanking so much more enjoyable, especially when playing with defensively weak party members who need group-wide tanking to survive. If you don't need or want to use one, that's fine. I'm not suggesting tanks should be forced to use one. But there needs to be that option for those who do, and preferably in the form of an ability that all tanks have access to.

The first sentance explained what the real issue is. It’s not the tanking skills but the low dps.

They need to improve their gameplay. That is it in a nutshell.

Gelmir

Wing wrote: »

Skill - Threat
Type - Toggle

effect: while this skill is active any enemies you damage will be taunted, whether ability, basic attack, bash, etc. any damage.
further more while active you benefit from Major Toughness and Major Protection, increasing your max health and reducing your damage taken. however you also suffer from major maim, reducing your damage done.


tada

Vevvev wrote: »

Sounds like easy mode. I don't like it.

This is exactly how tanking has been in WOW-generation/WOW-style MMOs. Either through persistent taunt passives or all tank active abilities causing taunt effect. In an active combat game where purpose is to make things "harder", this won't fly.

LashanW

I can see why some people would like an AoE taunt. There were times I wish I had one too. (I've tanked vet hm dungeons like Scalecaller peak, Depths of Malatar and Bloodroot Forge)

My issue is targeting. Taunting 4 crazy Aurorans in Depths of Malatar isn't much of a problem, because their hitboxes and hitboxes of their buddies are small. But taunting several Daedroths? That is annoying as hell because they have large hitboxes. It's very hard to taunt something else when 3+ of those things are filling your entire screen. And now soft taunts with chains are gone too

Same issue when trying to chain in enemies. So many times my chains hit some melee guy that's already on me when I was aiming for that distant pesky archer. Targeting definitely needs some improvements from a tanking perspective.