Any chance we have kids/teen characters in ESO?

Elsonso

fizl101 wrote: »

My understanding is that it was a deliberate decision due to players being able to do not nice things to them, killing them probably being the least of it

Sadly, this is the stated reason. Players would find ways to do "things" with them. This would probably consume ToS team time while they chase them down and ban them from the game. No one should have to deal with that sort of thing.

It is probably best that the inhabitants of Tamriel keep the kids in those locked rooms when adventurers come around.

Tommy_The_Gun

That would be very interesting from a world building & quest design perspective. It may also be interesting from a lore perspective to see "kids" of different races in ESO and how different cultures look like (young imperial may play different games than young Khajiit or Argonian etc).

Also, speaking of "kids" - there is a quest in Blackwood involving an observer / watcher and he acts kinda like a kid and is voiced by some one young. We also have Khajiit alfiqs in Elsweyr and they have very high-pitched voices, almost like a small children.

But in reality - I doubt it will happen. As far as I am aware the only things that happen to older zones are bug fixes. Adding kids would mean re-doing old content as adding them only to newer content would seem very weird, especially for new players (children existing only in one zone etc).

Galaen_Frost

There are a few quests with "children' in the game and they're all hilarious. "Please adventuer, help my child get married." And then it's some 30 year old Bosmer.

Adremal

hafgood wrote: »

Why would you want them?

I want a contract to kill Grelod the Kind's ancestor.

FakeFox

BretonMage wrote: »

I find not having children in Tamriel actually immersive since none of the TES games pre-Skyrim had children in them.

Also, I would not want even pixelated children to be sharing a game world with the sorts of players who would download the killable children mod in Skyrim, or worse.

"Another wanderer, here to lick my father's boots. Good job."

VaranisArano

I'm not concerned about it.

It would be more immersive, but this is a world where I can swim in heavy armor and cook any food or drink by stirring a single bowl and occasionally licking my finger.

Tandor

NeeScrolls wrote: »

uhh there's already enough juveniles playing the game as it is lol anyone seen /zone chat on the weekends?

I haven't seen zone chat since I installed the game at launch.

As for people wanting kids in their games, I'm not sure which concerns me more, having kids in the game or people wanting them. I just don't understand why anyone would think that it would something worthwhile to a fantasy MMORPG. Either way I'm absolutely fine with keeping it as it is.

Sylvermynx

No thank you. Children are not immersive, they're annoying - and have been in any game I've played that included them. For me, child NPCs add nothing to a game. I'm perfectly happy with TES pre Skyrim and ESO hiding kids wherever. Skyrim of course had them and they were SO awful I really wanted a mod to just remove them completely without going so far as to kill them.

Elsonso

Tandor wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

uhh there's already enough juveniles playing the game as it is lol anyone seen /zone chat on the weekends?

I haven't seen zone chat since I installed the game at launch.

As for people wanting kids in their games, I'm not sure which concerns me more, having kids in the game or people wanting them. I just don't understand why anyone would think that it would something worthwhile to a fantasy MMORPG. Either way I'm absolutely fine with keeping it as it is.

There isn't anything wrong with thinking that children would make the game world more realistic, in much the same way that many TV shows and movies have children in them. Wanting them in the game depends on why they are wanted.

Maya_Nur

To be honest, I am a bit overwhelmed with the reasons and opinions of why children shouldn't be implemented in game... I thought someone will say something like: "It doesn't interesting to me" or "ESO had no children from the beginnig", but things people are talking of... I couldn't even imagine all of this stuff (like adult things or killing), and hearing kids are annoying, well, this is different from my life experience.

Tandor

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NeeScrolls wrote: »

uhh there's already enough juveniles playing the game as it is lol anyone seen /zone chat on the weekends?

I haven't seen zone chat since I installed the game at launch.

As for people wanting kids in their games, I'm not sure which concerns me more, having kids in the game or people wanting them. I just don't understand why anyone would think that it would something worthwhile to a fantasy MMORPG. Either way I'm absolutely fine with keeping it as it is.

There isn't anything wrong with thinking that children would make the game world more realistic, in much the same way that many TV shows and movies have children in them. Wanting them in the game depends on why they are wanted.

I agree, but whenever this comes up it's not as an aside that having children in the game would add realism, it's as a request for children to be added to the game. There are indeed plenty of TV shows where children are included, and plenty where they are not. I always find it strange that people want them in a game of this kind.

rbfrgsp

Maya_Nur wrote: »

It could vastly expand writers' possibilities and deepen player's immersion.

the writing in this game isn't that deep. They don't need child characters to tell us that our new ally was really the secret daedra cultist this whole time.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

My understanding is that it was a deliberate decision due to players being able to do not nice things to them, killing them probably being the least of it

I don't think this is the case. I mean japanese games have tons of underaged girls and boys and it never was a problem to anyone.

Yeah but like for example Skyrim has Children but they aren't killable. And then people modded them to be anyway. And now in ESO we have jokes about there being no kids in the game and a lack of kids.

'The Orphanage for invisible children of Tamriel'
'A special place for the unseen'

VaranisArano

Maya_Nur wrote: »

To be honest, I am a bit overwhelmed with the reasons and opinions of why children shouldn't be implemented in game... I thought someone will say something like: "It doesn't interesting to me" or "ESO had no children from the beginnig", but things people are talking of... I couldn't even imagine all of this stuff (like adult things or killing), and hearing kids are annoying, well, this is different from my life experience.

Actual children being annoying depends on the child (and their parents.)

Virtual children frequently being annoying is a function of video game writers writing children with all the attached tropes, expectations, and preconceptions.

Consider that except for Skyrim, the TES games have not featured children. In Skyrim, children were not exactly treated with great complexity. You get to resolve a bullying situation in Whiterun. You get to murder the caretakers of several children if you see fit, and potentially adopt them. Skyrim, it turns out, is a nasty brutish world where no one thinks anything of Lucia learning from a fellow beggar to beg on the streets of prosperous Whiterun, or of Sofia reenacting The Little Match Girl selling flowers in Windhelm, or of an abusive father going missing and a stranger taking his daughters away from their supportive community. And once you've adopted them, they quickly lose much of their unique personalities.

The vast majority of children in Skyrim have very little agency as characters, and the ones who do are very limited to their quests. It's not like you get to recruit Aventus Aretino for the Dark Brotherhood afterwards, you know?


There is some complexity, of course. One might look at Jarl Balgruuf's children and question his fitness as a father and ruler when his youngest is messing with a daedric artifact and his two oldest are brats. But even there, I present two counterpoints.

1. There are limits to what the writers will do. Originally, it was planned for Balgruuf's children to try to murder him with said daedric artifact. You'll note that this content was cut, and instead you resolve the quest line with a minimum of creepy children and no patricide. See also not getting to recruit Aventus for the Dark Brotherhood, while Babette is clearly treated as not a child despite her looks. So if you are imagining that ZOS will start telling deep stories with children...I think it's worth considering that they haven't done so in the past.

2. ESO has plenty of opportunity to judge the fitness of parents on the quality of their adult children. We don't need to see Jorunn Skald-King's child to judge his quality as a father when his adult son Irnskar is a racist jerk. We don't need to see High King Svargrim with children when we meet his adult daughter Svana. We don't need to see Valsirenn's child die to feel deep empathy for her and her husband. We don't need Garyn Indoril to be a child to understand why Tanval Indoril goes on a roaring rampage of revenge when his only son dies in front of him. We don't need to be rescuing children for that extra reason of "You've got to rescue my son/daughter!"


Then we've got to consider the impact that children have if you do use them for plot purposes. Spoilers for Blackwood ahoy.

In Blackwood, we find out that the Ambitions are people. Honestly, for all the agency that Calia and Destron have in the plot, they might as well have been six years old instead of twenty-ish.

But would that have made the story any better? Any deeper? In my opinion, no. Having them be adults adds to their ability to decide what they want to do, even if they inevitably get railroaded along with us.

Worse, having them be children adds a rather unfortunate implication that we - like the cultists - are willing to force children to go along with our plans. The adult Ambitions can convincingly decide to go along with us because we're the best of two bad options.

And so I'm not convinced that we need children for story purposes. I'm not convinced that the writers would do any better than Skyrim (i.e. not well), or that they would feel able to use children in story quests with any great depth.

Kwoung

Maya_Nur wrote: »

To be honest, I am a bit overwhelmed with the reasons and opinions of why children shouldn't be implemented in game... I thought someone will say something like: "It doesn't interesting to me" or "ESO had no children from the beginnig", but things people are talking of... I couldn't even imagine all of this stuff (like adult things or killing), and hearing kids are annoying, well, this is different from my life experience.

While I love my children very much, I generally found others peoples children to be quite annoying, and mostly misbehaved due to their upbringing. Of course I am much older and grew up in a different time and place, when we called other peoples parents Mr or Mrs, and not by their first name. My children are also grown and have lives of their own now, and as much as I love them, a visit now and then is plenty of quality face time for me. I would not want them moving back in... as a matter of fact, I would (and have) paid their rent to keep it that way.

As for in game, beyond extreme levels of creepiness (on many levels), I do not see what they could add to the world of Tamriel.

whitecrow

It would certainly add life and flavor to the world. I really doubt there will be a plague of players making naughty gestures at them.

Except for Braith and the brat in Dragonsreach, the kids in Skyrim were all pretty nice. There are mods to improve their appearance.

Amottica

After almost eight years plus the approximately eight years of development, I doubt Zenimax changes their mind on placing children NPCs into the game. I do not see a reason for that to happen and definitely will not occur in any existing area.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

I'm both for and against it. Having children in the world makes sense. It looks and feels more realistic and immersive. All those quests and dialogue about some NPC's child who looks like an 25+ adult is a bit...weird. Sure, people have adult children but sometimes it's clear that they're supposed to be a teen.

During ESO's time period there has also been worldwide wars, daedric invasions and all manner of other things. There would be so many orphans, parents who have lost their children etc. There's a lot of story opportunity with it.

The "people would do things towards the child npcs" excuse doesn't really work either when we already have npcs immune to being killed or interacted with.


But by now I'm used to not seeing children in Elder Scrolls. They are on the long list of things I know exist and imagine are around but don't see in the game. I also don't trust ZoS/Bethesda to write them well and in a way that is not annoying. Least of all these days with how the writing is. There are other things I'd like to see more for immersion and realism than children.

Rasande_Robin

I so agree with this thread. They should introduce kids/teens as a preparation for beeing able to marry companions. Would love to see some orc-kids in the house!

Vevvev

As long as no annoying ones become quest givers I don't think it'd be that bad of an addition. Then again I have great faith in humanity and ignore all the rude emotes added into the game over the years... Nobody would dare use one of them on a child model, right? Right!

SilverBride

This would open a huge can of worms best left closed.

Mik195

Weren't those characters from the Blackwood chapter teens? They certainly seemed more like young adults than real adults, even the one that had more experience

Rather than adding actually children to the game (takes long enough for things to load now), I think ZOS should add some sounds of children playing so it sounds like you just can't see them, but they are just around the corner.

Sheezabeast

Mik195 wrote: »

Weren't those characters from the Blackwood chapter teens? They certainly seemed more like young adults than real adults, even the one that had more experience

Rather than adding actually children to the game (takes long enough for things to load now), I think ZOS should add some sounds of children playing so it sounds like you just can't see them, but they are just around the corner.

That is a very smart compromise. I like this idea.

whitecrow

That would be so much creepier!

Maya_Nur

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I so agree with this thread. They should introduce kids/teens as a preparation for beeing able to marry companions. Would love to see some orc-kids in the house!

I didn't think about it, but it sounds intriguingly. Do you mean adopted kids like in Skyrim or (how it in english?) related to our charaters?

DMuehlhausen

Maya_Nur wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

My understanding is that it was a deliberate decision due to players being able to do not nice things to them, killing them probably being the least of it

I don't think this is the case. I mean japanese games have tons of underaged girls and boys and it never was a problem to anyone.

No it's 100% the case. Way back when the game launched they were asked about it, and it came down to other countries laws where they wanted the game to be wouldn't allow children to be in situation A, B, or C and can't be killed, or pickpocketed etc so to just make it easier they left them out.

Amottica

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

My understanding is that it was a deliberate decision due to players being able to do not nice things to them, killing them probably being the least of it

I don't think this is the case. I mean japanese games have tons of underaged girls and boys and it never was a problem to anyone.

No it's 100% the case. Way back when the game launched they were asked about it, and it came down to other countries laws where they wanted the game to be wouldn't allow children to be in situation A, B, or C and can't be killed, or pickpocketed etc so to just make it easier they left them out.

Insightful and demonstrates the strong case that this will never change. Thanks for that info.

whitecrow

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

My understanding is that it was a deliberate decision due to players being able to do not nice things to them, killing them probably being the least of it

I don't think this is the case. I mean japanese games have tons of underaged girls and boys and it never was a problem to anyone.

No it's 100% the case. Way back when the game launched they were asked about it, and it came down to other countries laws where they wanted the game to be wouldn't allow children to be in situation A, B, or C and can't be killed, or pickpocketed etc so to just make it easier they left them out.

But there are already plenty of NPCs that can't be killed or pickpocketed, so why is it more trouble just because they are smaller?

Amottica

whitecrow wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Maya_Nur wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

My understanding is that it was a deliberate decision due to players being able to do not nice things to them, killing them probably being the least of it

I don't think this is the case. I mean japanese games have tons of underaged girls and boys and it never was a problem to anyone.

No it's 100% the case. Way back when the game launched they were asked about it, and it came down to other countries laws where they wanted the game to be wouldn't allow children to be in situation A, B, or C and can't be killed, or pickpocketed etc so to just make it easier they left them out.

But there are already plenty of NPCs that can't be killed or pickpocketed, so why is it more trouble just because they are smaller?

I think they were just using those as examples since it was not possible to pickpocket anyone or kill non-enemy NPCs when the game launched. So it would be other issues and I doubt they will be able to answer specifics of laws in all the various nations ESO is available.

RD065

Love children in rl. Can't stand them in games like these. And anyone who wants to kill a child in Skyrim or ESO ect. are sick.