fake tanks, speedrunning & you

M0ntie

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kmcaj wrote: »

Just get a group

Amen. It is easily the simplest solution to everything but people just want to make problems where there shouldn't be.

Random means "random" - accept that or don't do it.

But who were they talking to?

Want to speed run? Get a group.

Want to do quest? Get a group.

I'm thinking if you want to skip content get a group.

I have said this before on the many multiple threads about this. Apply it across the board. Yes, get a group -- whatever your gripe about randoms happens to be ---- if you can't or don't want to deal with what may happen. In those cases just make your own group and stop expecting random people to do what you want.

I can't agree with those post enough.

I could not disagree more. When you sign up for the random, you sign up with a role so people will reasonably expect you to fulfill that role. Just do the job you signed up for. If it is tank, hold taunt on the hard hitting stuff.

People you know aren't always available when u want to do random normals and ZoS changing what is best all the time makes it necessary to run random normal dungeons a lot for the transmutes.

spartaxoxo

M0ntie wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kmcaj wrote: »

Just get a group

Amen. It is easily the simplest solution to everything but people just want to make problems where there shouldn't be.

Random means "random" - accept that or don't do it.

But who were they talking to?

Want to speed run? Get a group.

Want to do quest? Get a group.

I'm thinking if you want to skip content get a group.

I have said this before on the many multiple threads about this. Apply it across the board. Yes, get a group -- whatever your gripe about randoms happens to be ---- if you can't or don't want to deal with what may happen. In those cases just make your own group and stop expecting random people to do what you want.

I can't agree with those post enough.

I could not disagree more. When you sign up for the random, you sign up with a role so people will reasonably expect you to fulfill that role. Just do the job you signed up for. If it is tank, hold taunt on the hard hitting stuff.

People you know aren't always available when u want to do random normals and ZoS changing what is best all the time makes it necessary to run random normal dungeons a lot for the transmutes.

Also the entire point of group finder is giving people groups when premades are not an option, so "make a premade" is invalid.

Everyone should do the role they signed up for and anyone failing to do so should be kicked out of group.

I fake take constantly. I am not giving breach and don't use pulls or any of that. But I always slot a taunt and hold the boss still. As far as I'm concerned that's what I signed up to do so I will do it. Anything else would be dishonest. I don't call myself a real tank for doing the absolute bare minimum because I personally find it disrespectful to all the patient people out there making real tanks and doing everything a tank should do, and do it well. But you also won't catch me doing less than that and not even bothering to taunt.

Soulshine

M0ntie wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kmcaj wrote: »

Just get a group

Amen. It is easily the simplest solution to everything but people just want to make problems where there shouldn't be.

Random means "random" - accept that or don't do it.

But who were they talking to?

Want to speed run? Get a group.

Want to do quest? Get a group.

I'm thinking if you want to skip content get a group.

I have said this before on the many multiple threads about this. Apply it across the board. Yes, get a group -- whatever your gripe about randoms happens to be ---- if you can't or don't want to deal with what may happen. In those cases just make your own group and stop expecting random people to do what you want.

I can't agree with those post enough.

I could not disagree more. When you sign up for the random, you sign up with a role so people will reasonably expect you to fulfill that role. Just do the job you signed up for. If it is tank, hold taunt on the hard hitting stuff.

People you know aren't always available when u want to do random normals and ZoS changing what is best all the time makes it necessary to run random normal dungeons a lot for the transmutes.

My point is to get a group together if you don't what to deal with what in all probability will happen: not getting the type of run you want to have out of a random group. Many people just consistently don't really bother to play the role they queue up for, go too slow, go too fast, whatever, for the vast majority of people complaining here.

It's not rocket science. Random means no method, so expecting a consistent grouping experience from this is not going to be the case - ever.

If you have a guild that never has people group up for transmute runs, then maybe you just need to run with more or other guilds. Discord tools are also great for just popping in and finding ppl to run with in a way that works for your needs.

But this constant whinging about dungeon finder is completely mute. ZoS has been pretty clear that they will not address it, and it is also pretty clear that you cannot control what other people choose to do. All you can do is choose to make your options better and more reliable if you do not like the nature of randoms.

And before you say it, let me clarify: I have been doing them on a daily basis on multiple classes and characters on 2 servers. Sometimes I get fed up with what I see too. When that happens, I take a break from randoms and just do them with people I know. Problems solved.

Vaoh

There seriously needs to be a “Story” difficulty by now to make enemies the same as in overland/delves, and maybe only gives a set piece from last boss.

Let people who want to do the quest have their fun, and let people who actually want to run dungeons have their fun too. Would be better for everyone.

MEBengalsFan2001

Fake tanks / healers typically don't ruin normal dungeon runs, especially non-DLC dungeons. DLC dungeons at times may need a real tank or healer just to complete them. However, if all players in the run have 1K+ CP it shouldn't matter.

drsalvation

This is one of the things I mentioned somewhere else, tanking is very useless in this game. The first time I ran dungeons as DPS after 5 years of tanking, I realized none of us died, and we finished very quickly.
This is one of MANY reasons nobody wants to tank, and because there are not many tanks in this game anymore, tank queues are almost instant.

Is it a problem that there are spedfanks? If it works, it works.
The problem is that this is evidence to show how useless tanking actually is in this game.

If tanking was a viable option to play the game anywhere you want, there wouldn't be many fake tanks. But as a tank, you can't even finish a SOLO arena (vateshran) because of a DPS check. As a tank, you can't do anything in PvP (CC, which any other role can do, and even if you do focus purely on CC, you don't get any rewards for it, you get AP for healing, you get AP for killing players, but there's no tank related stuff you get AP for, just tag an enemy player and let the real players kill the one you tagged to get your points).

I was pissed off that the first time I ever ran a dungeon as a DPS I was paired with a fake tank, and I was the one holding aggro, but that was just an eye opening experience.

As you mentioned, speedfanks only make the dungeon run a lot faster. (And the dungeons I played were veteran by the way)

neferpitou73

M0ntie wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

kmcaj wrote: »

Just get a group

Amen. It is easily the simplest solution to everything but people just want to make problems where there shouldn't be.

Random means "random" - accept that or don't do it.

But who were they talking to?

Want to speed run? Get a group.

Want to do quest? Get a group.

I'm thinking if you want to skip content get a group.

I have said this before on the many multiple threads about this. Apply it across the board. Yes, get a group -- whatever your gripe about randoms happens to be ---- if you can't or don't want to deal with what may happen. In those cases just make your own group and stop expecting random people to do what you want.

I can't agree with those post enough.

I could not disagree more. When you sign up for the random, you sign up with a role so people will reasonably expect you to fulfill that role. Just do the job you signed up for. If it is tank, hold taunt on the hard hitting stuff.

People you know aren't always available when u want to do random normals and ZoS changing what is best all the time makes it necessary to run random normal dungeons a lot for the transmutes.

Two points:
1.) I'll stop queueing as a fake tank when the average DPS player in a dungeon does above 20k. If you can't do enough DPS to get through the dungeon then you have no business being a DPS. It goes both ways.

2.) Even if we agree that it's wrong to sign up for fake roles: You're asking strangers in an internet game to be respectful...good luck getting that to happen. It'll save you a lot of headache to just work around that fact than trying to shame people into working with you or to forcefully correct their behavior. Which is the point a lot of people in this thread are trying to make.

Nogawd

I made a new character, a Necro tanky build in working on. Actual tank build as I level. Taunt and all.

So of course I'm getting dungeons where I have to do the quest. If the group rings ahead, guess what, I run with them.

Why?

Because it's not just about me! I'll get another chance sometime later.

Big deal.

magnusthorek

I have nothing against fake-tanks IF they're ACTUAL fake-tanks. But recently in the period of the day I play (morning times on GMT-3) I'm getting an astonishing amount of queue matches for veteran pledges (mostly) with "fake fake-tanks".

A few days ago, when ICP was among dailies, a fake fake-tank queued and we were matched in a group. He was bad, really. Group kicked him and, somehow, he managed to queue again and again almost instantly, like if he was bypassing the countdown, several times landing in the same group of ours.

Pevey

I do think there should be a group finder cool down whether you get kicked or leave on your own. At the very least, you should never have someone matched by group finder into an instance they got kicked from. I have seen that happen before.

For normal dungeons, the ideal tank is a bruiser tank who can do some damage. If you know basic mechs like how to block (a surprising number of high cp players don’t), then it is very possible to hold aggro, stand still, and dps in a normal dungeon. Tip, you can LA, cast a skill and then block all in one global cool down.

But many fake fake tanks are not nearly as good at the game as they think they are. They are just terrible and are even the first to die since no one is holding aggro. They don’t know what to do and run around kiting the boss everywhere making it harder to do good damage. These people are disgusting and should be kicked because they are just bad at what they have signed up to do and are wasting other people’s time.

Many good players who could solo the dungeon anyway but use group finder for the daily random transmutes don’t bother to kick these players. I always do. It gives bruiser tanks a bad rep. I only ever see them when I’m on my healers (because my other toons queue as tank) and all of my healers also dps in normal dungeons and can easily slot inner fire if needed. Actually doing the tank role in a normal dungeon is not hard, which is why signing up for it and not doing it is just not okay.

Taunt. Hold aggro. Keep the boss still. Easy peasy. This will help not only the dd’s dps, but also the fake tank’s own dps. Anyone who has successfully run vateshran and vma with a good score already understands how to fake tank properly. Keep the boss still! It’s the people who are not very good at the game but think they are who cause the issues.

carlos424

I’ve been running at least 3 random normals/day, on pc over the past couple of months leveling an account, and can say that probably 75% of these are run with a fake tank. Of these, at least half have difficulty keeping aggro. It’s not a huge issue, but gets annoying when the boss moves out of ults, and dots, or a low level character is having to kite it around (making the fight take longer than it should.) The vast majority of these fake tanks are higher level cp 1000+, who should know better. Also, I always queue as a dd and the wait is, maybe 5 minutes, 10 at most. So, not long. If you’re going to be a fake-anything, (which, imo, is kind of a jackass thing to do anyway), the least you can do is perform your roll adequately. Your time is no more valuable than mine.

Sarannah

Personally I like it when dungeons go fast, but there is a HUGE difference between going fast and simply being inconsiderate(to put it nicely).

It does not matter if normal dungeons do not need a tank, it does not matter if some DPS do very low damage. If you queue for those roles, you have to perform them. Queueing as a fake role means you do not respect the time of the other players who did wait out a queue. Going into a dungeon as a fake role, you rob others of the chance to be able to learn their role. As a result, you get the 'fake DPS'. And as they can't learn their roles in normals, the low DPS issue moves towards the veteran dungeons. So no matter how easy the dungeon, fake roles are bad for the game. Besides fake roles creating issues in the groups they are in, they also completely destroy the new player experience for newer players doing their first dungeons. Therefor ZOS should enforce roles.

Speedrunners do not want a group with them, they are simply inconsiderates(to put it nicely) who do not respect another player's time. While they demand/force three other players to respect their time. They also do not allow players to learn their role, and besides that they also do not allow players loot or the ability to complete the quest. Besides speedrunners creating issues in the groups they are in, they also completely destroy the new player experience for newer players doing their first dungeons. Like I said earlier in this post, there is a huge difference between going fast, or simply being inconsiderate(to put it nicely). Signing up for groupcontent, while not wanting to do it *with* the group is not how the game should function. Silence is not agreeing, because if you stop to type you miss out on even more than you already would! Therefor ZOS should fix this ASAP.

When players queue up for a role, they should perform that role. When players sign up for groupplay, they should be atleast somewhat considerate towards that group. Which is the whole foundation of the dungeonfinder. If someone queue's for a certain role, they are entitled to assume other players also sign up for their correct role. If someone queue's up for a dungeon, they are entitled to expect loot and experience from the killed bosses. It comes down to ZOS to enforce those things, so players can have a normal experience when queueing for dungeons.

Does a one minute faster dungeoncomplete really outweigh all the issues and bad experiences it creates? In my opinion: Hell NO!

Amottica

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I like it when dungeons go fast, but there is a HUGE difference between going fast and simply being inconsiderate(to put it nicely).

It does not matter if normal dungeons do not need a tank, it does not matter if some DPS do very low damage. If you queue for those roles, you have to perform them. Queueing as a fake role means you do not respect the time of the other players who did wait out a queue. Going into a dungeon as a fake role, you rob others of the chance to be able to learn their role. As a result, you get the 'fake DPS'. And as they can't learn their roles in normals, the low DPS issue moves towards the veteran dungeons. So no matter how easy the dungeon, fake roles are bad for the game. Besides fake roles creating issues in the groups they are in, they also completely destroy the new player experience for newer players doing their first dungeons. Therefor ZOS should enforce roles.

Speedrunners do not want a group with them, they are simply inconsiderates(to put it nicely) who do not respect another player's time. While they demand/force three other players to respect their time. They also do not allow players to learn their role, and besides that they also do not allow players loot or the ability to complete the quest. Besides speedrunners creating issues in the groups they are in, they also completely destroy the new player experience for newer players doing their first dungeons. Like I said earlier in this post, there is a huge difference between going fast, or simply being inconsiderate(to put it nicely). Signing up for groupcontent, while not wanting to do it *with* the group is not how the game should function. Silence is not agreeing, because if you stop to type you miss out on even more than you already would! Therefor ZOS should fix this ASAP.

When players queue up for a role, they should perform that role. When players sign up for groupplay, they should be atleast somewhat considerate towards that group. Which is the whole foundation of the dungeonfinder. If someone queue's for a certain role, they are entitled to assume other players also sign up for their correct role. If someone queue's up for a dungeon, they are entitled to expect loot and experience from the killed bosses. It comes down to ZOS to enforce those things, so players can have a normal experience when queueing for dungeons.

Does a one minute faster dungeoncomplete really outweigh all the issues and bad experiences it creates? In my opinion: Hell NO!

Pretty much this.

The person who speed runs, leaving the entire group behind, and the person who loots every crate and bag while the rest of the group goes at a normal pace, both show willful disregard to the rest of the group. Both behaviors, when it is not in line with the rest of the group's behavior, is disrespectful.

Sallymen

Jeremy wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

Fake tanks are the product of fake DPS. I am not holding a boss as a tank for 5 straight minutes.

A whole 5 minutes.

Just goes to show generational changes. Back when MMORPGs first came out a 10 minute boss fight was like a mini boss. End bosses could last half an hour or more. I'm not saying whether this change is good or bad mind you. I just think it's interesting just how much people's perceptions of what constitutes a long boss fight has changed over the years.

I've been playing this game since 2016. DPS has been going up ever since so theoretically BASE game dungeon boss should not be a problem or last more than two minutes. Especially vet fungal grotto 1 boss. But no I get put into group as a real tank with DPS as CP higher than 600 who barely shed out 5k dps each. I rather be fake tanking and soloing these dungeons.

If we apply this to dlc dungeons... Most groups I've come across couldn't get past first boss because of how pathetic both dps and dungeon awareness they have.

davidtk

I just don't know why anybody just can't make deal at start of rnd...
It is so hard to say on group chat?...
"quickrun? quest?"
or when someone who don't have quest can't write "can we please do quest?"
Ppl stopped communicate between. Someone find chest and nothing, just continue without any word.
You find chest, you say "chest" and i will say "thank you" it is really so hard?
WHen i go to rnd i say ask "quickrun or quest?"
And best are ppl when i for example leveling low level char, some high CP look at group and disconnect... hey i have active CPs too and dung is scalled by group leader, you think that i dont have dmg? Silly...

ixthUA

carlos424 wrote: »

The vast majority of these fake tanks are higher level cp 1000+, who should know better.

They can't know better because normal random is everything they ever do.

huntgod_ESO

Simple solution is don't PUG, you can be in FIVE guilds, surely out of potentially 2499 other players you can find 3 to run with you...even if 2-3 are eaten up by Trade Guilds or 1 is a personal guild for bank space, still a lot of folks and slots to utilize.

I know I have a fantastic social guild and not everyone is as lucky, but I loathe pugs so much, that I'd rather do something else than PUG a random.

I also don't suggest using Random Normals to do a leisure dungeon crawl, the only reason most folks are in a random is for the XP bump, if you are there to experience the dungeon, queue to it directly with some buddies.

That said, I have fake tanked in the past, I always ask if anyone is on the quest before charging ahead, if no one speaks up, I sprint along and kill everything in the dungeon, I can comfortably solo most non-DLC dungeons on normal. I will also usually be up front and let the group know I am not a tank, but haven't found myself desperate enough to PUG in some time.

You just don't need a tank in normal dungeons, don't really need a healer either, 4 dps is easy mode.

Now that Armory is in game it's also easier than ever to have a DPS build for your tank/healer.

KaGaOri

Fake roles and inconsiderate speedruners are annoying when on CP toon, but they no longer have ability to stop me from doing what I came to do (complete dungeon to get daily xp bonus and / or keys). But on a new toon without acces to CP speed bonus and most of usefull skills (also poorly geared if it's players first character) running dungeons is MISERABLE.

Tried to level healer + learn healing groups by running dungeons and never had such horrible time in this game before. No one waits, no one is willing kill optional bosses for quest / completion achievemet, or for quest npc to show up (yes I've asked, repeatedly), faster characters agro everything and stamina-lacking low level trodding at the group's tail gets CC'd by twenty mobs and killed, not getting credit for boss group started in meantime ...

Had to level the character elsewhere and return to dungeons after level 50. So my healer had 1000+ CP, no undaunted leveled up (= no orb) and zero experience with healing. I'm sure every group I was put in loved me. Now imagine creating tank this way. With healer the group at least couldn't stop me healing them even if it's just easy normal, giving some space to learn. But players generally don't wait for tank to go in first, taunt, or stack enemies in normals. Could go directly to vet , where tanks matter more, but doubt players in vet will be happy to see 1300 CP+ tank only just figguring out how to be a tank. Maybe there would be more real, not awful tanks if the game wasn't actively discouraging players from learning that role.

And yes, creating group from zone chat / guild is possibility, but I can play usually only for hour (offten less) each day and not very keen to spend half hour standing around organizing group to run one 15 min dungeon.

maxjapank

Joined a normal pledge yesterday for WGT. I’m a healer. Tank had 18k health and 1500cp. He got one-shot on the first big add. Offered him food. No reply. Asked him if he knew he only had 18k health, and he said “Yeah, mate.” So I left. You just can’t heal stupid.

Hagrett

When I join a random I'll always say hi, and usually get no response. If people don't speak up about what they're after at the start of a dungeon how is anyone supposed to know? Should everyone crawl through at snail pace because some sensitive person might be too shy to type "Hey, I have the quest here."

Whenever I've seen someone type something similar to the above, usually the rest of the group will slow down and (sometimes) also go for the optional bosses etc.

I think a lot of the issues come from poor communication and I always find it funny that people who can't bring themselves to type a single sentence in game can manage to bring paragraphs to the forum afterwards about how toxic other players are for not being psychic and catering to their silent whims. I would argue that is actually more antisocial than the people who rush ahead because no-one's speaking up (and probably assume people wanna get the run over with and move on to other things).

Obviously the people who rush on ahead despite being asked to slow down aren't great team players either, I'm not trying to excuse that.

Lastly, the best advice is always going to be to find guilds suited to your playstyle, whatever that might be, and avoid all the hassle. If you don't want to "deal with the social aspect of a guild for XYZ reason" which I've seen used as an excuse quite a few times before, then it is self-fulfilling that you'll end up in RNDs with all the other people who refuse to take part in the social side of the game and can't cooperate with one another.

TLDR: Find a guild of like-minded players for easy times. If you won't do that because you don't want to deal with other players then don't be surprised when you end up in groups with other people who also don't want to take part in social aspects of the game such as cooperating with other players.

vivisectvib16_ESO

DCUO has an interesting way of dealing with groups that don't have the proper makeup. If you have no tank, the entire group gets a defense buff. If you have no healer, the group gets a health recovery buff. I'm wondering if something like this could work for ESO.

zaria

seldomseenkd wrote: »

Fake tanks who bring decent DPS are fine. In most normals this is a more optimal group setup imo.

But far more common are fake tanks who are also doing negligible dps. These players are freeloaders.

This, one decently sturdy dd has an taunt and hold the boss still or none move much works well in most normal's.

Or vets, did vCoA2 with an fake tank and this one as an fake healer. Yes I had shards, extended Ritual and Ritual of Rebirth and ran SPC unless mistaken so how fake? Maelstrom destro back bar Zaan and mother sorrow body I assume.
Unless we got an real tank I would not go full heal and spam heal him, it was not needed.
We smoked the last boss Granted it was an good group who tend to do vet dlc dungeons,

schindler

vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »

DCUO has an interesting way of dealing with groups that don't have the proper makeup. If you have no tank, the entire group gets a defense buff. If you have no healer, the group gets a health recovery buff. I'm wondering if something like this could work for ESO.

Thing is, Tanks are rare as is and with some mechanic like that they might go completly extinct, at least as far as pugs/dungeon finder goes.

I'd wish Zos could find a way to make tanking and healing more attractive, then we wouldn't have this conversation in the first place.

Elsonso

schindler wrote: »

vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »

DCUO has an interesting way of dealing with groups that don't have the proper makeup. If you have no tank, the entire group gets a defense buff. If you have no healer, the group gets a health recovery buff. I'm wondering if something like this could work for ESO.

Thing is, Tanks are rare as is and with some mechanic like that they might go completly extinct, at least as far as pugs/dungeon finder goes.

I'd wish Zos could find a way to make tanking and healing more attractive, then we wouldn't have this conversation in the first place.

Right now, there is an incentive to tank and heal because the queue lines are shorter. That is quite an attraction. Sadly, in the "this is why we can't have nice things" category, people can abuse that by saying they are a tank, with no intention of actually doing it, just to jump ahead in the line.

My feeling is that ZOS has taken the roles as far as they should. Players self-assign, with no judgement from the game, which makes the roles as open and inclusive as they can possibly be. They have a good incentive to heal and tank, and if they add to that, the risk of fakes increases. If they start trying to judge the players in how they pick roles, the system is not inclusive and turns people away from the role. If they do anything to discourage fakes, the fakes will find a way around it. Gamers are very well versed in doing that sort of thing. The only thing ZOS can do to stop that is to become increasingly more judgemental, which serves to further reduce the number of people who qualify for the role, and makes it less attractive.

TL;DR is that I think that anything ZOS can do to make tanks and healers more attractive will increase fakes, and anything they do to counter the fakes will make them less attractive.

_adhyffbjjjf12

ixthUA wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

The vast majority of these fake tanks are higher level cp 1000+, who should know better.

They can't know better because normal random is everything they ever do.

When you mean 'know better' at 1000 cp you can solo normal dungeons, so technically they do. The only issue is where there is no communication in a party or if someone speeds ahead despite being asked by the team not to.

etchedpixels

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

When you mean 'know better' at 1000 cp you can solo normal dungeons, so technically they do. The only issue is where there is no communication in a party or if someone speeds ahead despite being asked by the team not to.

And if they fixed the toxic transmute crystal problem by capping it, moving it per account or allowing solo randoms it would go away - they are toxic people, but the fundamental problem is that ZOS inflicts their toxic behaviour on the rest of us. So it's easy to fix but ZOS don't seem to care.

Pevey

etchedpixels wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

When you mean 'know better' at 1000 cp you can solo normal dungeons, so technically they do. The only issue is where there is no communication in a party or if someone speeds ahead despite being asked by the team not to.

And if they fixed the toxic transmute crystal problem by capping it, moving it per account or allowing solo randoms it would go away - they are toxic people, but the fundamental problem is that ZOS inflicts their toxic behaviour on the rest of us. So it's easy to fix but ZOS don't seem to care.

If they ever “fix” this so-called problem, good luck ever finding a group in group finder at all unless the dungeon you want is a pledge. And then people will complain that the transmute stones from pledges make people “toxic” and will ask ZOS to “fix” that so-called problem.

James-Wayne

The perfect speedfank 😁👍 that's me! Your welcome groups!

M0ntie

Suggestion:
To fix the main driver for people to need to speed run random normals (and fank to get a short queue time) is to give more transmute crystals to the category of players who need the most crystals and have rnd's as their main access. This is players who mainly do Trials. You get 5 lousy transmutes from a trial. ZOS is continually changing what sets are the best, which drives the demand for transmutes to correctly trait them. 5 transmutes for a trial that takes much longer than a random normal dungeon to run is not a fair reward for time and effort.
So I suggest making trials give 20 transmutes per completion (up from 5). That would be a fairer reward for time spent, and would take some of the high level players speed running random normal dungeons out.

Brenticus12

Sallymen wrote: »

Fake tanks are the product of fake DPS. I am not holding a boss as a tank for 5 straight minutes.

Forreal lmao. I have 3 tanks and I've done every dungeon and trial content in this game, both vet and HM, as a tank. I'm still going to try and avoid using my real tanks for random queues because I can't stand fake dps in dungeons. I'm much more likely to jump on my DPS toons and just nuke a dungeon.